Home Solar & Subsidized Feed In Tariff Qld

[muzza01]

Ahh at last we agree, maybe except the bit where Muzza told me to go !@#* myself.

Wish you would instead of trolling on this thread.

It started off as a decent discussion until you called some of us sponges.

[Moggy]

Can I make a suggestion, go and ask your bil if the energy companies are going to DROP the tariffs AFTER all the 44c fit's end.
I bet he'll just laugh and ask if you're joking.
Energy company ceo's are the same as politicians and will spin the lies and truths to suit themselves.

No need because like you i know that wont happen. And whilst i agree with Tryagain in that the 44c fit has undoubtedly contributed to higher general tariffs, i am now wondering if the high fit was all part of a government/power company conspiracy to justify the recent high increase in prices

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[grafy82]

The high electricity prices are largely attributed to the massive network infrastructure and line upgrades that ergon decided they needed to keep up with future demand.
     I'm not going to feel bad at all about my 44c fit that I took a loan to pay off. I am one of the people having to pay to prop up the serial dole bludgers and people who don't want to work  hard because of a bad government dole scheme that was put into place. Sound familiar tryagain?

[Fizzie]

where the poorest third (renters) are excluded

See this time after time, that we're (& yes, we also get 44c  ) responsible for rippling off the poor renters - OK, so someone renting a house can't decide to put panels on their roof, but what's stopping their landlord from putting panels up?

[tryagain]

Wish you would instead of trolling on this thread.

It started off as a decent discussion until you called some of us sponges.

Please try to get your facts straight. I didn't call anyone a sponge, I merely pointed out some facts, I have even said I don't think the term sponge really applies to the 44c FIT, If you think others having to pay you several times over for your solar setup makes you a sponge then that is your issue to deal with not mine.

If in pointing out the facts somehow ruined a decent discussion we have a very different definition of "decent discussion". Are you alluding to the earlier pages of this thread where people discussing how/if they can increase their their output in order to claim more for others as being the decent bit?

I have said several times that I don't have issues with people who signed up in good faith believing that it was a good thing to do. I do have issues with the government who introduced it and people who are relatively well off (ie house owners) continuing to try and game the system so that people poorer than them have to pay even more for it. 

[Bill]

Well I must be a double sponge because I also use my solar panels in the few caravan parks we frequent, which must drive up the price for those who use the 240 provided.
Bill
p.s I still have a care factor of 0

[muzza01]

Please try to get your facts straight. I didn't call anyone a sponge, I merely pointed out some facts, I have even said I don't think the term sponge really applies to the 44c FIT, If you think others having to pay you several times over for your solar setup makes you a sponge then that is your issue to deal with not mine.

I got my facts straight.
So you didn't say the below? 
Or are you now retracting what you said?

You might not like the term sponging but I cant see any way that it can honestly be looked at other than participants being able to gain a significant financial advantage at the expense of those not so well off.

[tryagain]

The high electricity prices are largely attributed to the massive network infrastructure and line upgrades that ergon decided they needed to keep up with future demand.
     I'm not going to feel bad at all about my 44c fit that I took a loan to pay off. I am one of the people having to pay to prop up the serial dole bludgers and people who don't want to work  hard because of a bad government dole scheme that was put into place. Sound familiar tryagain?

I have never said the FIT is responsible for all of the general Tariff increase, I have only said that the 44cFIT is paid for by an increase to the general Tariff, I've heard the "we had to take out a loan" line from a few different people in this thread but am not sure why its brought up, you do realise its others who are effectively paying it off for you and getting nothing in return.

Yes there are definitely issues with the welfare system, I am not it anyway denying that but have several times now pointed out how I believe this scheme, by design is far worse. I honestly cant see how anyone can reasonably have an issue with the welfare system in this country but not the 44cFIT without being hypocritical.

[UIZ733]

Well I must be a double sponge because I also use my solar panels in the few caravan parks we frequent, which must drive up the price for those who use the 240 provided.
Bill
p.s I still have a care factor of 0

Exactly the way I operate and think. I think this thread is done to death.

Some of us forked out our hard earned in good faith when the scheme was operational. Many including some on here though we were mad OR that it was a poor deal for whatever reason.
The reality is that it was a good deal. We got lucky for once. So what! In my case I have received 'Jack Shit' from any form of government up to then.
A significant Government rationale behind enhanced feed in tariffs at that time was to bring 'solar' into the consciousness of the house-owning public form my memory of events. If that has proven to be wrong, so be it. Those who don't make mistakes, make nothing.

Self righteous clap-trap that suggests we are in some way using the system, are wealthy and don't' care about those less well off or have been responsible for price increases in electricity is nonsense. Prices go up.

Wealth is relative. I can't afford to give the 'love of my life' a 10 million dollar engagement ring or buy a house in Toorak. I guess that is my problem. I just need to 'man up' and accept my situation OR shut up and do something about it.

By the way, I now know that to keep the 'subsidy', the account must remain in my name.
Thanks all for clarifying the matter.

[tryagain]

I got my facts straight.
So you didn't say the below? 
Or are you now retracting what you said?

I certainly said that, if that sentence was calling you a sponge it would have said "You might not like the term sponging but I cant see any way that it can honestly be looked at other than sponging" instead I kept to pointing out the facts with "than participants being able to gain a significant financial advantage at the expense of those not so well off" I though that would be fairly clear. The reason I think its not sponging is I attribute that term sponging to the "have not's" leaching of the "haves " for lack of a better phrase, where as this is a case of the opposite.

[GeoffA]

See this time after time, that we're (& yes, we also get 44c  ) responsible for rippling off the poor renters - OK, so someone renting a house can't decide to put panels on their roof, but what's stopping their landlord from putting panels up?

A trick question, perhaps??

Why would a landlord stump up thousands for solar panels, when the tenant would reap the saving??

[GeoffA]

There's no mystery. The FIT does not materialize out of thin air.

The reality is that it must be recovered from somewhere.....

[tryagain]

I can honestly say my neighbors do NOT pay for my FIT
I can say this because I live in a Close and we all have solar on our roofs.
Bill

IF they all got in on the 44c FIT then you are correct.

Well I must be a double sponge because I also use my solar panels in the few caravan parks we frequent, which must drive up the price for those who use the 240 provided.
Bill

I cant see how that drive up the prices, I would think it would drive down more than anything but perhaps I am not following properly.

p.s I still have a care factor of 0

This actually makes a lot more sense to me than that of those trying to defend the scheme. The "Yep the scheme is crap but I went into it with good intentions, its not my fault the government of the day stuffed it up" is a logically defensible position to take.

[Bill]

IF they all got in on the 44c FIT then you are correct.
Indeed they did.
I cant see how that drive up the prices, I would think it would drive down more than anything but perhaps I am not following properly.
Well the caravan park isnt making extra money by my use of their electricity so  they must be charging the other users extra to compensate for me.

This actually makes a lot more sense to me than that of those trying to defend the scheme. The "Yep the scheme is crap but I went into it with good intentions, its not my fault the government of the day stuffed it up" is a logically defensible position to take.
You misunderstand. In order to defend myself I would have to care what you or anyone thought. I dont.

So before the solar scheme what "excuse" did all these electrical companies use for their price hikes?
Bill

[BaseCamp]

This thread has turned to total crap...   Mods;  please pull the plug on it....

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[tryagain]

So before the solar scheme what "excuse" did all these electrical companies use for their price hikes?
Bill

Same as everyone else I guess, increase in costs to supply the service. The hikes just had to become bigger to cover the 44c FIT

[KingBilly]

This thread has turned to total crap...   Mods;  please pull the plug on it....

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No it hasn't.  Just because you mightn't agree with some of the points raised, it doesn't mean the thread should be shut down.  Both sides are raising valid points and afterall we live in a liberal democracy where free speech is encouraged and not censored like you wish to do.

Just play the ball fellas, not the person, and please continue

KB

[BaseCamp]

I am happy to read and learn factual points about how the FITs work, and whether the schemes are economically viable?

I tire of trolling;  and attacks/needling of forum members. ...

Like for example: do you think I appreciate reading your erroneous claims that "I may not agree with some of the points raised" ... Why say this?  Plainly wrong. ..   

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[KingBilly]

I am happy to read and learn factual points about how the FITs work, and whether the schemes are economically viable?

I tire of trolling;  and attacks/needling of forum members. ...

Like for example: do you think I appreciate reading your erroneous claims that "I may not agree with some of the points raised" ... Why say this?  Plainly wrong. ..   

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Mate you have a bit of a habit of trying to be the moral guardian on myswag sometimes.

Nobody is trolling, certainly not me.  And I haven't seen any evidence of anybody else trolling in this thread either.  I would humbly suggest that perhaps your perception of what trolling is differs from mine 

Only one person engaged in a personal attack which was wrong.  All others comments have been either fact or somebody's opinion.  Nobody has to agree with another's opinion, but everybody should respect the right of that other person to express their opinion.

KB

[BaseCamp]

Mate, I beg to differ there....    Much of the last couple of pages has not contributed much to the FITs naritave imo....   and please don't try and moralise on how you see me here.....



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[tryagain]

Just to clarify that I am not taking ANY of this personally not sure if I am the villain or the victim alluded too but I think we all benefit from having our views challenged as long as we can all remain civil. 

[Bill]

The hikes just had to become bigger to cover the 44c FIT

But we dont know that for sure do we?
Lets be honest here.
We (the consumer) have no idea what the price of electricity would be today had the solar scheme not happened.
Bill

[Banjo16]

This thread has turned to total crap...   Mods;  please pull the plug on it....

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X 2
This is not informative or robust discussion,sounds more like a schoolyard spat b

[tryagain]

But we dont know that for sure do we?
Lets be honest here.
We (the consumer) have no idea what the price of electricity would be today had the solar scheme not happened.
Bill

.
A very quick google reveals this old article that seems to confirm it as well place a $$$ figure on what everyone else is having to contribute with (a predicted) $276pa for non solar households this year, I hadn't read this article before but seems to confirm everything that I have said here.

[jetcrew]

I can see that this is an emotive issue for some so i will tread carefully

It is plainly obv that prices went up as a result of or at the same time as the FIT system that was implemented in Qld/AUST.. to blame those who undertook the system is a bit silly ..infact its very silly IMHO.

If those people did not stump up the $$$ for those first few years of solar harvest feed back into the grid and the Power mobs had to build and install all that solar you can bet we would be paying a lot more right now.

So it was inevitable that  prices would go up but how much is the real question..would we be paying more with or without the solar subsidy system. No one will ever know but I do know that regardless of the 44c FIT prices would have sky rocketed and maybe be even worse.

Those people who installed at the start and were encouraged to spend $$$ to do it and become quasi shareholders IMHO providing the needed infrastructure to the power companies and in return for their early investment they are now rewarded with continued 44c FIT , those of us who were cautious and hung back and came to the table later only get a 6c FIT.

Its like buying shares before or after a company makes it big ..you take the risk you reap the reward.   Was the 44c FIT unsustainable YES was it designed to simply get the panels out and on roofs generating much needed kWh to the grid YES... did they always plan to roll it back ....YES .. so it had a limited shelf life  but it achieved its desired outcome. 

paying early investors 44c FIT could well be a lot less than if no one ever took it up... and we were paying the energy companies for them having to invest the $$$, so I think even trying to apportion an increase in elec costs to early 44cFIT people is off the mark...the increase was always coming and it could have been much / much worse or even had consequences of long term power failures.

so I guess my point is.. if you want to save power turn Shit off ...if you dont then pay the bills ..if you want to blame someone for the high bills blame us all who want 2 fridges and 100 lights on every night... we are the end user and when demand is high so is the price ..esp if you need to continually upgrade the network as each year demand increases, if you can prove your usage has decreased over the past 3 years then disregard my comments, for the rest of us honest enough to admit we use more and more each year, then understand we will pay more and more each year.

      But everyone is entitled to an opinion and thats just mine 

Other will think different ..but we can all agree the less you use the less you pay 

jet

EDIT - yes that article puts a $$$ figure on it $276P/A to cover the early investors and owners of the infrastructure, imagine the cost PA to each household  if you were paying back a billion $$$ loan for the power company  each year..... you keep missing the point ..one way or another you and me were always going to pay more , your just upset it goes to other normal people I am happy it does.. and the environment benefits too.