Fraser Island Idiot Report

[rossm]

Consider this line stolen, because it's 100% true! I was brand new to off roading just a couple of years ago, but thanks to the internet and (I like to think) a healthy dose of common sense, I've never been in trouble. Helped out plenty of others who were though.
I can't fathom the mentality that takes a 4WD vehicle to a place like Fraser Island without doing even a little bit of research. If not because you're afraid of losing your very expensive vehicle, then how about just so you don't look like a clueless idiot?

I can't help wondering about the influence of the 4WD advertorials on TV and the various magazines (also mostly advertorial from what I see.)

Most of the programs I have seen are all about how much fun off-road travel is and  what you need to do it with much less emphasis on some of the pitfalls.

People look  and think "yeah I can do that" and off they go.

It staggers me that people still get bogged on a beach because they won't let tyres down, often  because they don't want to buy a compressor.

They will spend tens of thousands on cars and trailers and camping gear and some  more on a holiday  but baulk at a couple of hundred bucks for a compressor because they might only need it once or twice a year.

   

         

[gordo350]

Just remembered the  instructor's  catch phrase.  Usually you go off road right after you **** up on road

[Coolblue80]

Yep. Seen it all whilst we were there a couple of years ago. Even saw a kid standing on the towball and hanging on to the roof rack of a 80 series cruiser while dad was driving up the beach. Another fella launched his cruiser ute, up the sand  track that runs beside the boarded track up of the beach at Orchard beach, that hard that he missed the first corner and put it into a tree. Also saw all sorts of debauchery at Inskip Point a couple of months ago. Wifey and I were having a w/end away at Rainbow and decided to go and see what all the fuss was about at Inskip. We didn't plan on sitting there for 2 hours watching the carnage but couldn't drag ourselves away.
Cheers, Mike.

[BBull]

No doubt I will get smashed for this but rated tow points are over rated in a lot of cases.
You are bolting a rated piece of equipment onto an unrated piece of metal. Not saying a factory tie down point are any good but on the 200 series I have winched, snatched, double and triple winched off the standard tow points. I believe that they are good enough for anything I will ever do. I did replace the standard bolts with grade 8 bolts but at the end of the day the part it bolts into is not rated and car manufacturers will never rate them.
Obviously a tie down point is just that but some are definitely strong enough to use.
Also no one actually knows how much weight they are pulling out due to different situations as in being stuck on the chassis or suction from mud.
Every winch and snatch will always be a risky event no matter how good your equipment is

[rossm]

Rated tow points may or may not be the bees knees but they gotta be better than the bull bar.

There was a death in the Kimberley a few years ago when a bull bar came off when a car was being snatched and struck a child standing nearby.

On an environmental  project I was volunteering on out east of Wiluna  a few years ago a ute  stuck in the mud after rain (by me) was pulled out with a chain.

The explanation from the WA Parks and Wildlife guy in charge was that snatch straps had been banned on account of they were too dangerous.     

[Cruiser 105Tvan]

Rated tow points may or may not be the bees knees but they gotta be better than the bull bar.

There was a death in the Kimberley a few years ago when a bull bar came off when a car was being snatched and struck a child standing nearby.

On an environmental  project I was volunteering on out east of Wiluna  a few years ago a ute  stuck in the mud after rain (by me) was pulled out with a chain.

The explanation from the WA Parks and Wildlife guy in charge was that snatch straps had been banned on account of they were too dangerous.     

It also teaches the slow learners, that you should do the job slowly.

[Bird]

4wd club "training courses" are not worth the time and effort.

Funny, all the courses I've been involved in while doing my accreditation the people always come out of it with high praise, and things like
'I never knew my car could do that'
'I never knew I could do that'
'I'd never have had the confidence to go through those areas..."

They are alway run by the "self appointed" expert

the clubs you looked at much really suck. but I don't know any Victorian club that has 'self appointed' experts. Having said that, not all clubs currently have trainers.

and there is always a cost.

None of the 4 clubs I've been in have charged for driver training.

Most are not accredited or a Registered Trainng Organisation (RTO). So the trading you receive isn't worth anything.

Really?

You are better off giving the clubs a miss and attend a registered and certified off road course.

You seen what they charge? Even 4wd Victoria courses are expensive..

Clubs are always worth it for the training, but some clubs politics take over and destroy the life of the club.

[BBull]

Rated tow points may or may not be the bees knees but they gotta be better than the bull bar.

There was a death in the Kimberley a few years ago when a bull bar came off when a car was being snatched and struck a child standing nearby.

On an environmental  project I was volunteering on out east of Wiluna  a few years ago a ute  stuck in the mud after rain (by me) was pulled out with a chain.

The explanation from the WA Parks and Wildlife guy in charge was that snatch straps had been banned on account of they were too dangerous.     

I agree but aren't bull bars bolted to the chassis usually around the same place as a tow point.
This is my point. The chassis is never beefed up or rated in any way.
If it was the bull at would have bent and twisted instead of being ripped off.
Plus don't some bull ads have tow points on them.

[Bird]

I agree but aren't bull bars bolted to the chassis usually around the same place as a tow point.
This is my point. The chassis is never beefed up or rated in any way.

One thing - there was a 4wd place few years ago fitting bullbars without using High Tensile bolts. I don't believe anything deadly came of it thank ****.. but something everyone should check

[gordo350]

Yeah.  The tjm bar has rated points. As you say they are only bolted to the chassis but you've gotta hope that they put some engineering in before the put their name on the rated capacity.  Not that i know what the capacity is. Not stamped anywhere

[rossm]

I agree but aren't bull bars bolted to the chassis usually around the same place as a tow point.
This is my point. The chassis is never beefed up or rated in any way.
If it was the bull at would have bent and twisted instead of being ripped off.
Plus don't some bull ads have tow points on them.

Nothing is perfect I guess. Life is about compromises but you should not compromise on safety.

I have seen video of bull bars being torn off and read  reports of it happening.

I have seen video of tow balls shearing off and read reports of it happening.

I have not seen video of a rated recovery point breaking off or read of it happening.

Happy to be corrected but until then I will use the recovery  points on my car if I need to be snatched.   

[Symon]

Nothing is perfect I guess. Life is about compromises but you should not compromise on safety.

I have seen video of bull bars being torn off and read  reports of it happening.

I have seen video of tow balls shearing off and read reports of it happening.

I have not seen video of a rated recovery point breaking off or read of it happening.

Happy to be corrected but until then I will use the recovery  points on my car if I need to be snatched.   

It depends totally on the bull bar design and how it is attached.  My bar is held on with 8 x 12mm 8.8 grade bolts.  The rated recovery point is held on with 4 x 12mm 8.8 bolts.  Some of the hook type recovery points only use two bolts.

I have snatched and winched off my bull bar many times, but I also don't act like an idiot when doing so.

[Rumpig]

Yeah.  The tjm bar has rated points. As you say they are only bolted to the chassis but you've gotta hope that they put some engineering in before the put their name on the rated capacity.  Not that i know what the capacity is. Not stamped anywhere

it's usually on the sticker that comes on the bar, 8000kg is what it's rating should be.

[BBull]

Yeah.  The tjm bar has rated points. As you say they are only bolted to the chassis but you've gotta hope that they put some engineering in before the put their name on the rated capacity.  Not that i know what the capacity is. Not stamped anywhere

That's correct the points are rated but is the other side rated where it connects to the chassis

[Rumpig]

That's correct the points are rated but is the other side rated where it connects to the chassis

the rating of the bar is in conjunction of it's fitment to the chassis, not just the bar standing alone...vehicle manufacturers don't rate the vehicle chassis, bullbar manufactures have to rate the bar inclusive of the chassis as fitted to the particular vehicle.

[DrewXT]

the rating of the bar is in conjunction of it's fitment to the chassis, not just the bar standing alone...vehicle manufacturers don't rate the vehicle chassis, bullbar manufactures have to rate the bar inclusive of the chassis as fitted to the particular vehicle.

Correct.

As a real life example, we designed and now manufacture recovery points for the Amarok here in Melbourne, and before we released then, we tested them to the WLL we wanted to sell them at, twice the WLL, three times and then to destruction.

The test was performed on the section of chassis rail (yes, we bought a chassis expressly for performing this test) that each recovery point bolts to.

The recovery points then underwent an engineering assessment before we tested on our own vehicles and then went into production.

It's worth noting also that most recovery points are only rated when used with a bridle attached to both recovery points, to ensure the chassis doesn't get shock loaded on one side, which can lead to permanent, irreparable chassis damage

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Hookie]

I can never understand why I see vehicles with winches using snatch straps to get unstuck. I carry a snatch strap, but unless it's impossible somehow, I'll always use my winch first. I just don't like the idea of those huge forces between 2 vehicles if there is another option.

[GBC]

I never understand why people drive to 'help' a winch in sand. 9 times out of 10 an undriven tyre will pop up and out. Keep the wheels turning and they will just keep digging.

[Hookie]

I never understand why people drive to 'help' a winch in sand. 9 times out of 10 an undriven tyre will pop up and out. Keep the wheels turning and they will just keep digging.

It's amazing how many people will dig themselves into a far bigger mess than they need to be in because they put their foot down harder. I carry maxtrax and a shovel everywhere, as well as snatch strap and winch, and I've never used them on myself because the instant the car stops moving I stop, try once backwards, and if that doesn't work I dump some more air out. So far every time I've been stuck in sand that's been all I need. If you're not moving forward or backward, more revs is the last thing you need.

[tennismark]

On a side note.......
where did you camp for those 12 days on the island? is there somewhere you'd recommend? Planning on a similar time span in Feb.....
Cheers.

[Bird]

I can never understand why I see vehicles with winches using snatch straps to get unstuck.

Cause a snatch recovery is quicker and easier to setup

[edz]

On a side note.......
where did you camp for those 12 days on the island? is there somewhere you'd recommend? Planning on a similar time span in Feb.....
Cheers.

Hit the search button ^^^^ Will be your friend [ Zones 5 and 6 ] will be good and central to everything . Feb should almost see the Island as a ghost town other than Back packers

[BaseCamp]

Something I've learnt to do in loose, gravelly, or unbalanced/rocky 4wding situations, and even in boggy ones - is to make use of my handbrake....   (not the misses) but the thing between me 2 front seats....   

When transversing through these types of tracks I will often have one hand on the wheel; and my left hand on the handbrake with my thumb pressing in the chrome button, (off)...

Any gains I am making in the above environmental conditions (both driving forward or in reverse),   I can quickly lock in using the handbrake..

Also if I feel like I'm starting to slide sideways a bit -  on with the handbrake immediately....

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[GBC]

Something I've learnt to do in loose, gravelly, or unbalanced/rocky 4wding situations, and even in boggy ones - is to make use of my handbrake....   (not the misses) but the thing between me 2 front seats....   

When transversing through these types of tracks I will often have one hand on the wheel; and my left hand on the handbrake with my thumb pressing in the chrome button, (off)...

Any gains I am making in the above environmental conditions (both driving forward or in reverse),   I can quickly lock in using the handbrake..

Also if I feel like I'm starting to slide sideways a bit -  on with the handbrake immediately....

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

Toyota drivers all over the country are scratching their heads now.

[Symon]

Toyota drivers all over the country are scratching their heads now.

What is this handbrake you speak of?