New Caravan Park Scam

[JohngQld447]

Unfortunately I see the issue from a completely different side. I can't seem to understand why someone would spend $30K or more on a camper and even $80k or more on a caravan and then think he is being ripped off by the government or others to have their extension cord tested and tagged. Even a newly purchased one could be defective without you knowing it. When you take your cord to whoever, before handing over your lead and cash, ask to see the person's Electrical licence card. Even those who have done the competency  course to do this work should have a card. If they don't move on.

It is not about trying to scam you out of $15, but having a tested extension cord goes somewhat to protecting your safety, that of your family and those who may be close vicinity to your camper or caravan. A small price I think. To go one further, on your way home, call into Bunnings or whoever and buy a power point tester for $10. Put it on the end of your cable each time you roll it out and make sure the indicators tell you that it is ok.

Recently a family were putting up their Jayco camper across from us when every time the dog touched the  step, it would yelp and do tail spins. At first, the family thought it was funny until I asked if I could do a quick measurement. Sure enough the earth was completely open and from the van chassis to earth was about 100 volts. This voltage comes from the way most switching power supplies (the SETEC in Jaycos for example)  get rid of the noise on the line to ground. It is very small current and when an earth is present, it isn't even there. I was really grateful that rather than give me an earful, they went straight out and bought a new lead. Should the fridge or some other appliance developed an earth fault over night the full 240 volts would be present on the chassis. When you step out in the morning with one foot on the step and one on mother earth, you will complete the circuit to earth and hopefully in less than 200 milliseconds the power will be cut. If you had a dicky ticker before now and didn't know it, unfortunately this will not help.

I have a Restricted Electrical license issued in QLD but so tight are the regulations here, that I can only do testing and tagging and disconnecting of power for equipment owned by my employer. I doesn't allow me to test and tag my own lead.  But still we will have a duty of care to those around us even when we are not at work.  Grasp this issue, get your own lead tested and then when you go to the next park, ask if they promote this and if not,  why not.


John

[alnjan]

John I agree with making sure your gear is right and works correctly to protect your own belongings.  But at a caravan park where it is the obligation of the park owner/manger to ensure their gear is running correctly, how is that suddenly my fault?

[corndog]

Lets say $55 for 2 adults on a powered site overnight. 2 kids at lets say $15 each. Then on top $15 to test a lead. That makes $100 for an overnight stay.  I think I'll stay at home.
Lets say 5 campers need leads tested per day. At $15 that's $75 per day, $525 per week, $27300 per year. If I was a park owner I'd take that.

[rags]

I have a Restricted Electrical license issued in QLD but so tight are the regulations here, that I can only do testing and tagging and disconnecting of power for equipment owned by my employer. I doesn't allow me to test and tag my own lead.  But still we will have a duty of care to those around us even when we are not at work.  Grasp this issue, get your own lead tested and then when you go to the next park, ask if they promote this and if not,  why not.

John is the reason that you can only do your boss's equipment due to you only having an occupational license rather than a contractor license which would explain the tight regulations?
I come from a plumbing background with a restricted electrical ticket that allows me to disconnect and re-connection appliances like pumps and water heaters. In NSW where I am also licenced that is issued by NSW fair trading as part of my plumbing contractor licence. In Queensland I need to get a seperate occupational license from the Electrical Safety office for the Electrical component, my occupational gas licence from the dept of mines and something else and then an occupational plumbing licence from the QBCC. Then I can get a contractor licence from the QBCC to contract . Go figure.and add up the cost.

[MDS69]

You mean the batteries for the tools ? Contractors charge them before coming on site. We charged them with a battery charger ?? Was it a trick question ?

No not a trick question however you answered my next one further down about recharging batteries mid shift that the contractors would need multiple batteries to complete the days work if one isn't enough.

[Bird]

Lets say $55 for 2 adults on a powered site overnight. 2 kids at lets say $15 each. Then on top $15 to test a lead. That makes $100 for an overnight stay.  I think I'll stay at home.

186ish for 2 nights at Inverloch... Went once, never again.

[GeoffA]

186ish for 2 nights at Inverloch... Went once, never again.

Did someone say Knockwood??

[Andosan]

John

To play devils advocate for a minute...

Annual testing of this sort of gear does little to reduce the risks.  Far better to educate users to inspect their equipment before use each time.

And a question - what exactly do the Bunnings $10 testers test for?

Shane

[JohngQld447]

Having your lead tested and tagged guarantees continuity between the plug and socket and that each are connected correctly, Active to active, neutral to neutral and more importantly earth the earth. The contracts in the socket can become splayed overtime and therefore may not connect, and this is something that a visual inspection may not find. It also tests the insolation between each of the conductors. The Powerpoint tester I spoke of indicates that each of the active, neutral and earth are present on the socket. All these plug testers have a disclaimer that they can't detect a swapped neutral and earth but this is something that your test and tag will show. It is impossible from them to swap after the lead has been tested especially the moulded variety.
Its also just as important to check it for gouges, nicks.

Rags,
       Yes my license is occupational specific, Telecommunications. We can work on rectifiers and such after they have disconnected, but the license allows us to disconnect them from the mains if hardwired. We have now converted most to a 20 amp outlet and cable.

Alajan,
        As a workplace, the parks have an obligation to their own staff and you to ensure their equipment is tested each three months in most states. It is certainly not your fault, but to ensure you have full protection from earth faults that your caravan or camper may have, a correctly working lead is essential.

Corndog,
          Your lead once tested and tagged is good for 12 moths, you don't need to have it tested every time you go camping, hence why I also added the plug tester so over the period of 12 months, you can be sure that it is ok.

[weeds]

John you sure 12months on an extension lead...??

Test and tag is only good at time of inspection....we all closely inspect our lead before each use other than that the average punter has no idea whats happening inside the lead.

At work ours are either done 3 or 6 monthly.

At home my leads are > 10 years old and I reckon they would pass a test.


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[corndog]

John.
Can you please list off some other things that can fail  extension leads.

[Symon]

John I agree with making sure your gear is right and works correctly to protect your own belongings.  But at a caravan park where it is the obligation of the park owner/manger to ensure their gear is running correctly, how is that suddenly my fault?

The park manager is responsible to ensure their equipment is safe and operating correctly.  How exactly is it now your fault?

John is the reason that you can only do your boss's equipment due to you only having an occupational license rather than a contractor license which would explain the tight regulations?
I come from a plumbing background with a restricted electrical ticket that allows me to disconnect and re-connection appliances like pumps and water heaters. In NSW where I am also licenced that is issued by NSW fair trading as part of my plumbing contractor licence. In Queensland I need to get a seperate occupational license from the Electrical Safety office for the Electrical component, my occupational gas licence from the dept of mines and something else and then an occupational plumbing licence from the QBCC. Then I can get a contractor licence from the QBCC to contract . Go figure.and add up the cost.

That's due to inconsistencies between states and also there being no national trade licensing.  Been that way forever and isn't going to get any better any time soon.

Annual testing of this sort of gear does little to reduce the risks.  Far better to educate users to inspect their equipment before use each time.

Joe Average will only be able to find obvious faults with a lead, the not so obvious ones such as broken conductors or incorrect wiring won't be detected by the user.

And a question - what exactly do the Bunnings $10 testers test for?

What testers are you talking about?

John you sure 12months on an extension lead...??

Test and tag is only good at time of inspection....we all closely inspect our lead before each use other than that the average punter has no idea whats happening inside the lead.

At work ours are either done 3 or 6 monthly.

At home my leads are > 10 years old and I reckon they would pass a test.

Under AS 3760 test periods can be anywhere from 3 months to 5 years, depending on the environment and type of use.  If you work in construction or demolition then AS 3012 requires 3 monthly intervals.

Some places I have worked required monthly tests on leads due to the harsh environment and high rates of damage.

[weeds]

Under AS 3760 test periods can be anywhere from 3 months to 5 years, depending on the environment and type of use.  If you work in construction or demolition then AS 3012 requires 3 monthly intervals.

Some places I have worked required monthly tests on leads due to the harsh environment and high rates of damage.

Hence why I asked as I've never seen extension leads tagged at 12 months given the abuse they cop.


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[JohngQld447]

Thanks Symon for your input. The tester from Bunnings is just a plug with 3 Leds in it to show that all is ok. Better than nothing over the 12 months.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-power-outlet-tester-plug_p4420488

[Paddler Ed]

We used to travel with one of these in France: https://www.towsure.com/mains-polarity-tester-plug

It shows a whole number of different combinations of problems...

[Andosan]

Corndog,
          Your lead once tested and tagged is good for 12 moths, you don't need to have it tested every time you go camping, hence why I also added the plug tester so over the period of 12 months, you can be sure that it is ok.

With respect, it doesn't mean that at all.  It means that at the time of testing, which could be up to 12 months ago, the equipment was ok.  Anything could have happened since.

That's the problem I have with this type of "maintenance" - people look at the tag, check if it's within the valid period, and assume it's all ok.  In reality it does very little to ensure the gear is in good condition and it's most useful function is to make someone feel warm and fuzzy that everything has been checked.

[Symon]

Hence why I asked as I've never seen extension leads tagged at 12 months given the abuse they cop.

In office environments things like extension leads can be on 12 or 24 monthly test intervals, quite common and appropriate.

Thanks Symon for your input. The tester from Bunnings is just a plug with 3 Leds in it to show that all is ok. Better than nothing over the 12 months.

https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-power-outlet-tester-plug_p4420488

So it just tests for correct wiring.  Good for a quick check but doesn't replace a PAT unit.

With respect, it doesn't mean that at all.  It means that at the time of testing, which could be up to 12 months ago, the equipment was ok.  Anything could have happened since.

That's the problem I have with this type of "maintenance" - people look at the tag, check if it's within the valid period, and assume it's all ok.  In reality it does very little to ensure the gear is in good condition and it's most useful function is to make someone feel warm and fuzzy that everything has been checked.

It is the responsibility of the user to visually inspect the lead and/or appliance they are about to use prior to using it, this should capture the obvious defects.  If someone just checks the tag and assumes everything is OK then they are negligent.

The not obvious defects are picked up during the test and tag inspection.  As someone who has done hundreds of these I totally reject your assertion that these contribute little value.  For harsh environments such as construction and mine sites I would condemn or repair about 20-30% of the equipment I inspected, especially extension leads.  For low risk areas like offices it would still be around 5 or 10%.

I agree that the quality of the inspections has dropped over the years, especially with the amount of one-day PAT testers out there, but those of us who rely on our licences for a living do have a propensity to do our inspections properly.

[kylarama]

It is the responsibility of the user to visually inspect the lead and/or appliance they are about to use prior to using it, this should capture the obvious defects.  If someone just checks the tag and assumes everything is OK then they are negligent.

This.
Nevers seems to occur to the owner that it's their responsibility EVERY time they use it.

I agree that the quality of the inspections has dropped over the years, especially with the amount of one-day PAT testers out there, but those of us who rely on our licences for a living do have a propensity to do our inspections properly.

A lot of big builders in Vic will only accept T&T from A graders for this reason.

Biggest issue are subbies buying Bunnings tags and copying a sparkies licence number on them.  A few have been caught out on our jobs. Doesn't go down well with the sparky in question....

Our company only use sparkies for T&T. Costs a little more, but any defective leads and plugs (90% of issues) can then be fixed on the spot.  Otherwise they'd have to be sent off after the tester has canned them.

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[The punter]

If they mandated RCDs in all installations, people would be a lot safer. Instead they have placed the compliance requirement on the user, a stupid idea.

[Rumpig]

Under AS 3760 test periods can be anywhere from 3 months to 5 years, depending on the environment and type of use.  If you work in construction or demolition then AS 3012 requires 3 monthly intervals.

Some places I have worked required monthly tests on leads due to the harsh environment and high rates of damage.

Qld is 3 monthly, but I think NSW went monthly in construction didn't they?

[kylarama]

If they mandated RCDs in all installations, people would be a lot safer. Instead they have placed the compliance requirement on the user, a stupid idea.

In Vic. RCD's Are required on all new and modified installations.  Including temp boards on building sites.

The user is responsible for the maintenance of their own equipment plugged into these installations.

Qld is 3 monthly, but I think NSW went monthly in construction didn't they?

Vic construction is 3 months and 1 month on RCD's in temp and portable boards.

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[xcvator]

Just to get back on track, a caravan park isn't a building/construction site!!! It is a work place for the park employees so what they use comes under the oh&s rules, the park guests aren't and don't.
When I spoke to the person at the Inverloch park she started off saying that it was a "rule of theirs" but after a bit of questioning she changed her tone and admitted it was "a suggestion and an unenforceable rule " hence my OP that it was a scam to rip money off of the gullible general public 

[Jeepers Creepers]

How many times did ya pay before ya worked out it was a scam?

[corndog]

Just to get back on track, a caravan park isn't a building/construction site!!! It is a work place for the park employees so what they use comes under the oh&s rules, the park guests aren't and don't.
When I spoke to the person at the Inverloch park she started off saying that it was a "rule of theirs" but after a bit of questioning she changed her tone and admitted it was "a suggestion and an unenforceable rule " hence my OP that it was a scam to rip money off of the gullible general public

After all is said and done I agree with you.
And I have heard of a park trying to get $35 out of any sucker that comes through their gates.

[xcvator]

How many times did ya pay before ya worked out it was a scam?

Nil

After all is said and done I agree with you.
And I have heard of a park trying to get $35 out of any sucker that comes through their gates.

exactly