NSW - Drivers and Cyclists - New laws March 2016

[Paddler Ed]

To those bashing the cyclists:
Have you ridden on the road any time before or after getting your driving licence? I've been riding on roads in the UK and Australia for 2/3s of my life, and everytime I do it I find new things to think about, and use that to improve my driving - for example, my anticipation of what other drivers or road users is increased because on a pushy (or any 2 wheeler) you have to be aware of what some SMIDSY driver is going to do - that then translates to how you drive on the road as well. The other side of that is you'll also realise how to conserve energy, because them hills can be a bugger to get up...

It'll also make you realise how insulated you are from everything in the car; I listen for a lot of things, and can generally hear them ahead of when it becomes a problem and in part that's from riding in city centres in the UK, where being able to hear a siren from a way away was a good self preservation measure.

On the subject of ID:
I carry my expired driving licence - it sill has my current address on it, but also means that I don't run the risk of not having it in my wallet when I'm driving. I just lob it in the back pocket on my jersey, along with phone and house keys.

Falls:
I've had my share of them on the road, and off the road, with stitches in my chin (twice from bitumen, once from dirt) and my leg (bear trap pedal to the calf). However, because I'm aware of what's going on, try to move at a decent pace and ride defensively I can reduce my risk... oh, and I'm wary of wet roads and bus lanes...

Other drivers:
On roads where there is limited opportunities to overtake, I'll move over as much as I can, and wave drivers past if I have a better view of the road, or leave my hand down to the side if there's something that makes it not safe, and then wave them past as soon as I can.

I also watch out around here for certain vehicles as I know they may not see you... advantages of being in a town with a high International Student population, and a lot of older drivers...

[cancan]

Other drivers:
On roads where there is limited opportunities to overtake, I'll move over as much as I can, and wave drivers past if I have a better view of the road, or leave my hand down to the side if there's something that makes it not safe, and then wave them past as soon as I can.

I have stopped waving cars past after I saw another cyclist do this and the driver had no idea on how to pass and to took so long that they nearly crashed... i could have easily passed in but not all drivers have the same ability so now i give them as much room as i can but leave when to pass to them. ..

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[stabicraft]

I use what is known as common sense.

I dont try to "substantiate my legal rights" with trucks when driving my car because if the truck disputes my rights, its gonna hurt...bad.

Working on this principle, when riding a bike, you dont take on a 1-2 ton vehicle because there will only be one sure looser....the bike.

Better to back off than be DEAD RIGHT.

But I suppose the Lycra is bullet proof and will save your life along with the esky lid you wear.
I wonder just how much of a bump a head wrapped in an esky lid would make when run over by a car tyre?

[NewieCamper]

It's a bit hard to tell with text, but I hope you aren't saying that bikes need to get out of the way of cars.

I got a big fright one day when a car drove between my sons while we were riding. There was no need to pass at that point, it was blatantly dangerous to take an exit between two young riders (9&7) and then come back and get all mouthy because 'he didn't indicate' to follow the road to the right where no cars ever indicate. We were doing the right thing, riding along with enough space for the car to pass safely if it had followed the road to the right where we were headed. I realise in hindsight I should have been in the middle of the lane protecting my kids from the idiot in the tin box.

There are times when a bike is safest in the middle of the lane when there isn't enough room for a car/truck to pass. A bike doesn't have to stop for cars and wait when it is a legally recognised vehicle. A bike does not 'obstruct traffic' (which is an offence) merely by riding along in accordance with the normal flow of traffic.

Have a little patience, have a little courtesy wether you are on a bike or in a car.

[gronk]

. A bike does not 'obstruct traffic' (which is an offence) merely by riding along in accordance with the normal flow of traffic.

I think it does if the bike is doing 15k/ph and the normal flow of traffic is 60+k/ph !!

[stabicraft]

Wot Im saying is that if a situation arises where the bike or even a car for that matter has a legal RIGHT to do something, but because of the circumstances will or may possibly result in a collision, it is far more sensible to just let the other vehicle have their way, right or wrong.

In maritime law, if there is a collision, both vessels are held responsible, one for being in the wrong and the other for not keeping adequate lookout to prevent said collision.

Unfortunately, in Australian traffic law, one vehicle is always deemed in the wrong and the other in the right.
But in many cases the vehicle technically in the right could have avoided the accident had they had sufficient grey matter between the ears to actually think like a human does.
If they just changed the law a little where both drivers were considered culpable, and the degree of culpibility was examined more carefully so that deliberate accidents caused by some idiot taking their "Right of way" perhaps people would be more responsible and many lives could be saved.

But dont hold your breath.
The RMA hasn't enough intellegence or ability to make sensible laws.
The lawyers would hate it because accidents would not be as profitable for them
And governments would hate it .....just because.

So much easier to make more and more draconian laws and penalties which are far more profitable for Govco in the long run.

[Jeepers Creepers]

QUESTION.

Why do so many cyclists have a go-pro stuck to their heads these days?

[Bad Scott]

I can't believe this is still going.

[macca]

Because they like taking video of the wiggling bum of their mate in front of them??

[l0ckym]

QUESTION.

Why do so many cyclists have a go-pro stuck to their heads these days?

I wear one, and I cycle 300-350kms/week.  These aren't commuting kilometres, but I train to race, like to be fit, and most importantly - riding that much, means I can eat (and even more importantly)  -- drink whatever I want..
I send about 3 videos a week to the local cops of clowns trying to kill me.  My videos have front and rear view, my speed and GPS location and time/date.  More often than not, offenders get sent a ticket in the mail. I follow the road rules, ride defensively and give-way to traffic, let traffic past where it is safe to do so.  If requested I provide all the footage which will include my cycling behaviour before and after incidents - I have nothing to hide.
Some of the opinions I read here, are quite frankly frightening - generally speaking its quite easy for bikes and cars to co-exist - look at most developed European countries..like Denmark, Sweden, France..they show it can be done - without the agro.

Yes there are clowns on bikes, and there are some very good, and respectful drivers.  Some of the Truckers I come across are some of the most respectful and great drivers I've shared the road with.

So you might get delayed 2 secs, by having to slow momentarily behind me, before safely and legally passing me with a safe distance...I'm not sure why people get so upset by 2 seconds.

What happens when you are driving somewhere, and some Nanna is driving her immaculate 1983 Corolla at 30km/hr in front of you?  Do you honk your horn, shout at her, try and run her off the road?  No..she has as much right to be there are you do, bikes are no different.

I think the ID is ridiculous, and we are the only nation in the world to require such an impost on liberty...I look forward to pedestrians, skateboarders and dogs being walked to all having to carry their identification in future.

The law is an ass, as is the opinion of some drivers, whom I look forward to sending my footage of to the local constabulary..

[glenm64]

I agree with your statements IOckym and agree with the need for all to be respectful of each other on the roads, but
the only reason you can identify the idiot drivers is because of registration requirements.
I think many of the idiot drivers get fustrated by some cyclists who also have pretty poor behavior.
The cyclists know there is no penalty and continue they ways which I believe cause fustration to those that are short fused.
Im not excusing any bad behaviour but it cuts both ways and unfortunately the lack of cyclist identification allows bad cyclists to carry on without any recourse.


Cheers Glen

[D4D]

More often than not, offenders get sent a ticket in the mail.

I call bullsh!t

[Foo]

I call bullsh!t

Don't be so quick to dismiss this! 

If the local Patrol hears you going on about some f-wit in a car/whatever, they will pull that car over. How do I know this? I was driving up Blackbutt Range and this corkhead, passed another truck that was coming down the Range = all double white lines.  If I had of been 2sec further up the road, it would have been a head on. Anyway, We get a call asking what happened and what vehicle it was and I told him. Couple of minutes late............I got him, thanks for that fellas! 

Foo

[macca]

I agree with your statements IOckym and agree with the need for all to be respectful of each other on the roads, but
the only reason you can identify the idiot drivers is because of registration requirements.
I think many of the idiot drivers get fustrated by some cyclists who also have pretty poor behavior.
The cyclists know there is no penalty and continue they ways which I believe cause fustration to those that are short fused.
Im not excusing any bad behaviour but it cuts both ways and unfortunately the lack of cyclist identification allows bad cyclists to carry on without any recourse.


Cheers Glen

Couldn't agree more Glen

[NewieCamper]

I'd wager a fair amount that the proportion of cyclists that ride like clowns and 'think they can get away with it' is pretty similar to the proportion of REGISTERED LICENSED drivers that behave in exactly the same way. It's got nothing to do with not being identified, but being a jerk.

Speeding, running red lights, drink and drug driving are very regular occurrences of readily identifiable motorists. The threat of fines doesn't do much to a proportion of society. carrying a little tiny pocket sized ID isn't going to change the way that those ratbag cyclists carry on becuase they still need to be caught by the police (like they currently are) at the time and I'm pretty sure we all know there isn't a copper around when you need one but they are doing the best they can.

[macca]

Yeah but all these cyclists have go pros so they can identify bad drivers, a lot of cars now  have dash  cams but can not identify bad cyclists.  I would sooner have Rego plates on all bikes rather than the cyclists carrying I'D.  But I don't make the laws

[l0ckym]

I call bullsh!t

See you in court.
Twice already in 2016, and its only Feb....I have footage and have done nothing wrong..


The license plate is also a misnomer...
Yes - there are d*ickheads on bikes, absolutely..

Having a numberplate doesn't stop people doing the wrong thing on a regular basis in cars/trucks/motorbikes... putting plates on push bikes would make us the only advanced economy in the world with such a regulation... (ex-Japan - where plates re used to help you identify your own personal bike out of 1000 in a parking space - not for legislation).  The sheer cost of regulation, would far outweigh the reduction in cost to the health budget, carbon footprint and congestion costs - which is what other advanced economies actually measure...

I've been involved in several accidents, where I had no ID...the coppers are much smarter than they look - it doesn't take them long to work it out.....if a cyclist truly ruins your day by running a red light - have a dashcam, take time and date - chances are he's a creatuyre of habit, and does it often.....  The other thing is, what about all those criminal jaywalkers....they don't have numberplates...the b*stards....perhaps we've all missed the boat and should be living like Gattica or Fahrenheit 451...every single person has to wear a name tag with their details.....

Some car drivers - really haven't thought this through...

[D4D]

See you in court.
Twice already in 2016, and its only Feb....I have footage and have done nothing wrong..

I still call bullsh!t

Let's say you get a video of me doing the wrong thing, you say you can get me sent a ticket, I contest it, we go to court, my legal counsel gets your video thrown out because there is no chain of custody and you cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt it was me in the video. Case thrown out, try again.

[Rumpig]

Having a numberplate doesn't stop people doing the wrong thing on a regular basis in cars/trucks/motorbikes...

i don't recall anyone actually saying here that it does stop it occurring, but it does help prosecute those who do it..... as appears evident by your answer already.

See you in court.
Twice already in 2016, and its only Feb....

what's good for the goose is good for the gander in my books 

[Bad Scott]

Because they like taking video of the wiggling bum of their mate in front of them??

[l0ckym]

I still call bullsh!t

Let's say you get a video of me doing the wrong thing, you say you can get me sent a ticket, I contest it, we go to court, my legal counsel gets your video thrown out because there is no chain of custody and you cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt it was me in the video. Case thrown out, try again.

Again, see you in court..
I've been there, given evidence, and had the driver rule responsible - one out of ten even get a conviction...
I'm only telling you what I do mate...I think the law is Shite...I'm just trying not to get killed by an imbecile..whilst keeping fit, reducing my carbon footprint, and saving money on fuel costs..I should be able to do that without being run over by a bogan..

Typically, if someone tries to kill me, I call the police straight away.  They take a statement at the scene, and take statements from witnesses, and my video (from the start of the ride to the end) is provided as evidence.  3 blokes are now guests of our illustrious government because of my evidence, the video, and the video of witnesses.  I hope they learn in the 'bighouse' that it is not ok to permit attempted murder...

I also have a lawyer, he's my bother, I'd love to get your numberplate on tape..he takes great pleasure in convincing magistrates that they tried to kill me...and gunning for suitable sentences..

[KingBilly]

3 blokes are now guests of our illustrious government because of my evidence, the video, and the video of witnesses.  I hope they learn in the 'bighouse' that it is not ok to permit attempted murder...

Yep, 110% pure bull$hit 

KB

[l0ckym]

Yep, 110% pure bull$hit 

KB

Would you like me to quote case numbers..
I have nothing to gain by telling porkies...
I had my spine broken, lost the use of my left hand, and both legs broken by aggressive d*ckheads - where it was proven in a court of law - that I was not at fault, nor had done anything wrong..

If you blokes think you can just run over blokes in lycra on bikes, or scare them or swerve at them with no recompense, I suggest you reconsider.

I will continue to report aggressive behaviour, and illegal behaviour...just like I would intervene or report assault on a woman, or if I saw someone stealing stuff..It should be no different...

[KingBilly]

Would you like me to quote case numbers..

Yes please.  Give me something to read on nightwork

KB

[macca]

These last couple of responses just reinforce my belief that SOME  cyclists arm themselves with cameras and then push the road laws to the limit to see if they can get a reaction. Jesus you say you have put three people in prison and have two people ticketed in the first month of the year, that sounds like an agenda to me
Anyway I heard enough BS time to stop reading this thread. Bye