Patrol go bang! Problem with new motor

[MDS69]

At least the Falcon will be a little better off road.  Use this time wisely and get to some places you were never able to with your Patrol.....

Quote of the day

[Hewy54]

I really feel for anyone who has a car go bang and then has the expense and inconvenience of having to fix it. I'm not a mechanic so cant offer too much advice but over the years I have found it cheaper to fix properly and retain what you know rather than selling and possibly buying more problems.
Two trains of thought worry me and I hope that Myswag members say these things with tongue in cheek
1. Fix it cheaply and sell it - what so some unsuspecting off roader or member can buy the problems and so we see the next thread about how someone got ripped off and we all sympathize with them?
2. Burn it and claim insurance - so we can all pay higher premiums for someone else's fraud.

Good luck with your repairs.

[dazzler]

1. Fix it cheaply and sell it - what so some unsuspecting off roader or member can buy the problems and so we see the next thread about how someone got ripped off and we all sympathize with them?

HI Hewy

I hope I wasnt suggesting fixing it cheaply as in bodgying it up.  What I meant was if you are not going to keep it then do the bare minimum required so its fixed.  You can either fix whats wrong or do the lot. 

If you are going to keep it long term, and because it got hot,  then you would want to strip it completely, magnaflux the crank and conrods,  grind the crank undersize, grind the conrod caps then resize the rod ends, remove the pistons from the rods and replace the pistons with oversize ones , new rings, deck the block, bore oversize, all new seals.  Reassemble.

Pressure test head, strip, replace valve stems, replace valves, triple cut valve seats and reassemble.  Adjust valves.

Reassemble engine and refit to patrol.

This would probably eat up close to 8K at least.

At some stage you need to work out where the value is.

cheers

[noel_w]

Thanks Hewy and all those who wished me well. My comment on burning it was tongue in cheek, there is no way I could do that to a Patrol even if it is the pre-runner to the Grenade series.
Yes there are places I would take a Falcon to I wouldn't take a Patrol. TO THE WRECKERS. This old beast has given me many pleasures over the years and has been over some country in it's unmodified form that some people would not take their lifted & locked fancy cruisers in case they scratch it. And for a lot less money in purchase price and fuel !!!!!! Its horses for coarses and some people can't afford a whole lot but enjoy what they have. It may not be much but I do own it.

Latest update from the mechanic is a cracked head, at this stage the flat bit downwards might be salvageable but won't know until the head comes off. I'll most likely find out tomorrow.

[DeLuxHiLux]

At least the Falcon will be a little better off road.  Use this time wisely and get to some places you were never able to with your Patrol.....

No, this isnt photoshopped.............

[fishfinder]

The thought had crossed my mind, but undriveable & in the mechanics shop already.....
Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
As for fixing it myself, it is my daily driver so it's going to have to be sooner rather than later plus I have limited tools & space so that is out of the question.
May be a long motor if the prognosis is terminal.

If it turns out to be a stuffed motor give The Engine Exchange in Bayswater WA a call a couple of years ago they took over another company that had a large amount of Diesel Japanese Runners you may be lucky and they may have one in stock at a good price also another thought is Brunswick Diesels just out of Bunbury they do plenty  of V8 diesel conversions from Patrols and they are bound to have a few of these motors lying around and there is also the 3rd suggestion is the work shop covered by insurance ?

[WilSurf]

If you repair it "cheaply" you can't sell it on this forum as everyone will know about it.

[Matto]

I feel for you noel - I hope you can get it sorted quickly.

My theory in this situation is :
A) it's worth nothing as-is, so you may as well fix it, and
B) once fixed, you've got to get your value back, so you may as well keep it for as long as you can.

Personally, I'd be looking at a reco motor. I wouldn't muck around with fixing your current one, especially if you can't DIY. Every dollar you spend on pulling the current motor apart and inspecting the damage is money you don't have to actually fix. If it did get hot, then I don't believe they're ever really the same afterwards. Personally, I'd pull the current 2.8 and swap a "new" one straight in.

Cheapest and quickest is to pull 2.8 out and put 2.8 back. If you want to upside, you can pull 2.8 and put 4.2 back, but then you're going to need to do a lot more work, and spend a lot more coin. Which means that you'll need to keep it even longer to get your return on that investment. If that sounds like a good idea to you though, then go for it.

If you can DIY then the above changes, so long as you value your time at $0.hr. You can pull it apart yourself and replace what's wrong, and get it back together in a better state for less money. But if it is your daily, the need to get it back ASAP might be your overarching concern.

Good luck - it's not the best place to find yourself!
Matto

[Bird]

If you repair it "cheaply" you can't sell it on this forum as everyone will know about it.

thats what Gumtree is for

[Barry G]

My view, from the perspective of someone who has gone the route of mods to the vehicle but has no skills / few tools less space and no time, has always been 'better the devil you know'.
With my motor about to turn over 300,000km I have already decided that, at some stage, I'll fit a change over.
This approach allows me to justify further mods (eg rear diff and gearbox) that would be uneconomical if I was intending to get rid of the car.
Also, from what I see newer vehicles are getting more and more complicated, less able to be modified, and generally less suited to what we want to do with them.
So, if you like the Patrol and it will suit your needs for a few more years, I can't see why you wouldn't put the $ you have into a replacement engine - inevitably cheaper than a rerplacement vehicle - and keep on getting enjoyment from a vehicle that you know and like.

[noel_w]

My theory in this situation is :
A) it's worth nothing as-is, so you may as well fix it, and
B) once fixed, you've got to get your value back, so you may as well keep it for as long as you can.

Personally, I'd be looking at a reco motor. I wouldn't muck around with fixing your current one, especially if you can't DIY. Every dollar you spend on pulling the current motor apart and inspecting the damage is money you don't have to actually fix. If it did get hot, then I don't believe they're ever really the same afterwards. Personally, I'd pull the current 2.8 and swap a "new" one straight in.

Cheapest and quickest is to pull 2.8 out and put 2.8 back

Thanks Matto
That is the current plan that SWMBO and I nutted out last night. Mechanic is pulling the head for no charge today to suss out damage and we go from there. Long term plan is to be a keeper for a couple of years at least, that way I can still go camping. Only other option was to buy someone else's problem which I am not keen on unless it is a good one, which I would not be able to afford.
Basically the old girl is in pretty good nick only needing a few replacement bits & bobs here & there due to age & K's. It tows the Trackie well & is quite economical doing it (12.5L/100K) so I have no qualms about keeping it for a while if I put in a good donk. I also have a 16yo son who may inherit it as he is mad keen on hotted up rice burners & I'm trying to steer him to 4bying rather than being a cop magnet. If he gets this for free it may encourage him to slow down when he hits the road. (edit: force rather than encourage as the 2.8 is no speed machine)
Might have to be snags on the bbq plate rather than a roast in the camp oven for a while though. (And heaven forbid a few less beers maybe)

thats what Gumtree is for

Hey Lost, Thats where I got my Trackabout from, it's not all bad.

My view, from the perspective of someone who has gone the route of mods to the vehicle but has no skills / few tools less space and no time, has always been 'better the devil you know'.
With my motor about to turn over 300,000km I have already decided that, at some stage, I'll fit a change over.
This approach allows me to justify further mods (eg rear diff and gearbox) that would be uneconomical if I was intending to get rid of the car.
Also, from what I see newer vehicles are getting more and more complicated, less able to be modified, and generally less suited to what we want to do with them.
So, if you like the Patrol and it will suit your needs for a few more years, I can't see why you wouldn't put the $ you have into a replacement engine - inevitably cheaper than a rerplacement vehicle - and keep on getting enjoyment from a vehicle that you know and like.

Very valid points and totally agree

[TOY80ST]

Good on you Noel,

We were all set for the replacement of our 80 last year when we snapped the shaft on the turbo (actually what I think has happened to yours). I have put a new turbo on it, a new set of injectors and rebuilt the fuel pump. All up the cost was about $7,500.00. We were fortunate enough that the turbo did not disintigrate and go through the motor. That would have meant pistons and possibly head.

What does this mean. Nothing really other than I am still driving the 80 until I can afford to upgrade. I am happy with the quality of repair, that it will still be reliable.

We had to budget back a bit as we all need to from time to time but we will get there in the end as I am sure you will too. Good luck with your repairs and I hope it all goes well for you.

[Matto]

Hi Noel,

Good luck with it all - it's a horrible feeling when something like that happens out of the blue. I had borrowed my father-in-law's dual cab Courier one day and it dropped it's bundle in a big way, blowing the bottom end apart. It's not a nice feeling at all. The worse feeling was 2 months later, following the Courier on our first big trip away with the new donk, when it looked like it had done it again  . Thankfully only a not-properly-attached turbo hose that time . It did make a LOT of smoke though!

A mate of mine down south has a 2.8GU, and he loves it. Those 2.8 motors might not be fast, but they're smooth. Sounds like you've got a good setup between the GQ and the trackie, so I wouldn't be changing much.

as he is mad keen on hotted up rice burners

Don't despair too much - I went through that phase as well  . At that stage, the last thing I would have been interested in was a big, old, slow 4WD. Looking back, it would have been perfect for me, but alas, hindsight is always perfect, isn't it? You're right about those cars being cop magnets though - even mine, which was relatively low-key, still drew more attention than I would have liked.

Again, good luck with it. Sounds like your mech is looking after you.

Matto

[noel_w]

Don't despair too much - I went through that phase as well  . At that stage, the last thing I would have been interested in was a big, old, slow 4WD. Looking back, it would have been perfect for me, but alas, hindsight is always perfect, isn't it? You're right about those cars being cop magnets though - even mine, which was relatively low-key, still drew more attention than I would have liked.

Me too, I had a (new) Datto 180B sleeper when I was just out of school. Only external hint was mags & good rubber & a very low key note from the extractors. Under the hood was a different story with dual DCOE45 Webers & sweetened head. Good for 8K RPM. Used to go out hunting V8's for kicks. As you said hindsight is a wonderful thing, I don't want to hand down my bad habits from when I was a kid.

[blackmav]

You could also look at putting a rb25det motor in.
Petrol Skyline motor.
Power is equal to how much you spend. Off the shelf parts are available to go as far as you want.
Any decent tune shop can work on them.
Bolts up to your engine mounts and gearbox.
Gets rid of the duel mass clutch.
Very smooth motor.
Cheap to buy, ie throw away donk.
Most of your wiring harness will be used.
No worries with compliance cause its a same or less capacity engine.
The RB25 has about the same torque as the RD28 and twice the power

If your worried about lack of low down grunt in low range a set of Marks 43% gears or 85s will fix it and be unstoppable.

If I were to buy another Patrol I would be buying one in your situation and doing this.
It would take longer but hey, will go like stink .

Some light reading for you
http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/gu-2-8-rb25det-conversion-42972/

[Matto]

That's a good point BlackMav. Harb had (probably still has) a black GQ with the 3L Skyline motor in it. I'm led to believe it goes like a cut snake. As for the low-down torque, a bit more boost will fix that.

http://www.4wdaction.com.au/articles/0/576-black-magic

There's more info on it in the 4WDA forums somewhere.

I reckon THAT would be a lot of fun on a gravel road.

(almost as much fun as noel's 180b!)

Thanks!
Matto

[blackmav]

Matto, the RB30 is a bit of a different beast to these. Only single cam, old school V.L turbo donk. Great motors but these have much more scope for fuel economy or power upgrades. I am also not sure about putting an older type/numbered motor in a newer car.
RB30 GQ patrols with the turbo are a  great thing

The conversion wouldn't be for everyone , but everyone would want to have a go in it:D

[noel_w]

I reckon THAT would be a lot of fun on a gravel road.

(almost as much fun as noel's 180b!)

I seem to remember hitting 125 mph on the dirt once in the "B". Used to alway wish for another gear, 4 just wasn't enough. Brake fade used to let it down though. Love the smell of brake pads burning.

[Roo]

You could also look at putting a rb25det motor in.
Petrol Skyline motor.

A mate did this to his RB30 powered GQ....went from Ho-Hum to Whoa-Muthar!
It was an absolute animal when right foot floored and the boost came on yet it could also doodle around town like a shopping trolley no worries. Fuel economy was only slightly worse than my 2.8TD GU but his was a whole postcode faster...I considered doing the swap for mine but didn't make sense for longer term touring.

[Apollo]

No, this isnt photoshopped.............

Reminds me of listening to two blokes chatting at Harry's Hut about how good the track in was for their new 4WDs.  We were walking on the same track and they were bragging away until they rounded the corner and saw our stock EL Falcon wagon parked next to their new 4wds.  Sometimes it best not to say anything.

[jwb]

Good on you Noel,

All up the cost was about $7,500.00.

Is that a typo ??

[TOY80ST]

Is that a typo ??

Nope,,,,

injector pump was 3.5k injectors 1K and turbo 3K. Gaskets, oils and other sundries. it is the 1hdt motor direct injection. Normal cost for pump for that engine is up over 4K

[Bird]

Nope,,,,

injector pump was 3.5k injectors 1K and turbo 3K. Gaskets, oils and other sundries. it is the 1hdt motor direct injection. Normal cost for pump for that engine is up over 4K

yea thats sorta the prices I was expecting.
its funny, they recommend injectors every 100k klms, and pump every 2 injector sets... whose that rich!?

[noel_w]

Turns out it was a leaky head gasket in no. 6 pot. Minute amounts of coolant slowly leaking in over some time & turned piston oval shaped. Diagnosis terminal, mechanic looking for reco motor as we speak. Hey Mr. bank manager how the $%&^ are ya, how they hangin'. We need to have a chat.  

[TOY80ST]

yea thats sorta the prices I was expecting.
its funny, they recommend injectors every 100k klms, and pump every 2 injector sets... whose that rich!?

The 1 HZ is heaps cheaper at about $80 per injector and a pump recalibration is around the $650.

Mine is going back though it has a flat spot in it now and is sooting in the flat spot rev range so something isn't right. From experience that can lead to engine failure. (holes in pistons) My hilux did it twice before they figured it out.