Author Topic: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks  (Read 13383 times)

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Offline edz

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #175 on: September 07, 2020, 05:59:22 PM »
World reknown race engine builder David Vizard on K&N Filters  .. 4:30 mark to 13:30 of the vid ..                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow5cGV7bXCw     :cheers:
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Offline gronk

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #176 on: September 07, 2020, 06:47:35 PM »


I think the only permanent solution is an aftermarket air box.



Keith

And even then, they are not all the same. Some use the OEM filter, which wouldn't be my choice, and others use a bigger filter...not sure what brand.
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Offline KeithB

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #177 on: September 07, 2020, 07:18:59 PM »
World reknown race engine builder David Vizard on K&N Filters  .. 4:30 mark to 13:30 of the vid ..                       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ow5cGV7bXCw     :cheers:

There is no doubt that K&N filters are the first choice for race cars and high performance vehicles with short service intervals that don't see a lot of dust. I put one on my aircon intake and doubled the air flow. So there's a big tick for air flow.

But there are holes in the filters that you can see through. The answer is that these holes are full of tiny oily and statically charged vibrating fibres that catch the dust. If that's the case, where do they store that dust?

If any filter is covered in very course dust it may well filter better with no impedance in flow. I'll leave that question to the theorists. But, according to another piece by Curtin University particles as small at 0.3 microns can cause engine damage. A human hair is 50 microns and the human eye can only detect 40 microns. Yet these wavy fibres are supposed to be catching and storing all of this stuff which is passing the filter at a huge rate of knots. That's bugger all on a race engine, but a possible problem on an off roader over several hundred thousand kays.

I think the independent tests I quoted earlier are far more credible for an Australian 4WD touring environment. The K&N was rated best on air flow but worst on dust removal efficiency, worst on dust holding ability and the easiest to plug up. This is under repeatable standard laboratory conditions.

That's why I have asked the mechanic replacing my dusted motor to fit a standard filter, rather than the K&N he recommended. A new air box comes next.

Keith
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Offline fc_holden

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #178 on: September 07, 2020, 07:24:31 PM »
Check out Project 200 tests on air filters on YouTube very interesting
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Offline KeithB

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #179 on: September 07, 2020, 08:11:59 PM »
Check out Project 200 tests on air filters on YouTube very interesting

It was interesting indeed. It was  a shame he did not test more brands. But his talcum powder could not duplicate very fine dust. Other tests show the effectiveness or otherwise of grease and self adhesive sealing tape.
I think the plastic air box on the 200 Series probably distorts under suction and no amount of mucking around with grease or tape will change that.
Keith
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Offline gronk

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #180 on: September 07, 2020, 09:04:22 PM »
I'm not sure if the standard airbox distorts or in some cases just doesn't seal properly around the circumference of the filter ??

I'm using a donaldson filter, which is approx 2mm thicker across the rubber seal and seems to be working OK...so far. But I haven't tested it out in real dusty roads like the outback yet. The Donaldson filter is supposed to be more efficient than the Toyo one as well ?
https://www.donaldson.com/en-us/engine/filters/technical-articles/air-filter-efficiency/

An interesting read, because it goes against the micron size that so many people talk about. Merely because they don't quote micron size, only efficiency !!
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Offline KeithB

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #181 on: September 07, 2020, 09:37:29 PM »
It's all very confusing for the layman. Micron size Vs efficiency?
I don't think there is too much doubt that Donaldsons are the best around. I wanted to use the Toyota filter on a new filter box to preserve the new engine warranty. I might add a cyclone as well because the Project 200 test showed that it removed 70% of the dust before it gets to the filter.
But I'd be happier with a Donaldson.
Keith
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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #182 on: September 07, 2020, 11:09:23 PM »
Lots of comp wannabes, and actual racers use K&N Style as they want more power, and most rebuild engines more often than I do....

There were  few dudes did tests on them years ago on patrol forum, Nissan one came out best, so I've used them ever since - happy with em.

YMMV
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #183 on: September 08, 2020, 06:32:01 AM »
Lots of comp wannabes, and actual racers use K&N Style as they want more power, and most rebuild engines more often than I do....

There were  few dudes did tests on them years ago on patrol forum, Nissan one came out best, so I've used them ever since - happy with em.

YMMV

Got quite a few mates who road race big capacity bikes.  Most use k&n when on the track.  Their own bikes (street riding) all use standard filter.  Road racing the guys are trying to get maximum power...hence the better flowing k&n. Not much chance of sucking in dust as well being all bitumen tracks. .  I have a k&n which I dont use now..back to standard Pajero filter and for real dusty areas...foam sock over snorkel intake.
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Offline gronk

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #184 on: September 08, 2020, 06:41:29 AM »
It's all very confusing for the layman. Micron size Vs efficiency?
I don't think there is too much doubt that Donaldsons are the best around. I wanted to use the Toyota filter on a new filter box to preserve the new engine warranty. I might add a cyclone as well because the Project 200 test showed that it removed 70% of the dust before it gets to the filter.
But I'd be happier with a Donaldson.
Keith

If it was me, I'd run a Donaldson filter, and keep a Toyo one as a spare, if it ever had to go back to Toyota, the genuine would go in.

And after the 1st day in dust, I'd pull the airbox cover and check for dust.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 06:43:12 AM by gronk »
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Offline stephenh1235

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #185 on: September 08, 2020, 09:46:55 AM »
Alternative solution (Tongue in cheek!)
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Offline Beachman

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #186 on: September 08, 2020, 09:48:46 AM »
On the GX (standard) 200 series I believe they come standard with a Toyota snorkel which has the big ugly black box on top. I presume this is has another filter inside?
So do Toyota think that the GX travels more on dusty roads more than a GLX which means they are aware of the dusting issue, so by putting 2 filters on  it, does this reduce/fix the apparent issue?

Offline chester ver2.0

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #187 on: September 08, 2020, 01:56:45 PM »
On the GX (standard) 200 series I believe they come standard with a Toyota snorkel which has the big ugly black box on top. I presume this is has another filter inside?
So do Toyota think that the GX travels more on dusty roads more than a GLX which means they are aware of the dusting issue, so by putting 2 filters on  it, does this reduce/fix the apparent issue?

I dont think there is an actual filter element in it. I thought is was just some plastic cyclonic style thing
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Offline MrCruza

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #188 on: September 08, 2020, 03:40:15 PM »
I dont think there is an actual filter element in it. I thought is was just some plastic cyclonic style thing

And technically its a "Raised Air Intake", not a snorkel. It's not watertight.
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Offline shanegtr

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #189 on: September 08, 2020, 07:33:02 PM »
It's all very confusing for the layman. Micron size Vs efficiency?
Filters have a beta rating at specified micron sizes. Theres a little bit of reading here (this is talking about oil filtration, but its exactly the same for air):
https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1289/oil-filter-efficiency
Just google filter beta ratings and you'll have plenty of material available to put you to sleep. The important thing with a filter rating is they should have a beta rating at a specified micron size (some filters will have several beta ratings for different sizes).


Offline KeithB

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #190 on: September 10, 2020, 08:09:54 AM »
My LC 200 is due back on Friday (tomorrow), God willing and the floods don't rise. They started with a crate engine already on the workshop floor when the vehicle was towed in. They knew that my wife and I were waiting in a local caravan park so that we could continue our trip.
This is a specialist truck and 4WD repair shop with what they claimed was extensive experience with this model Landcruiser, not some back yarder. They said that, if things went well, the job would take five working days.
However, this engine change will have taken a full three weeks to complete.
Can anyone top that record?
Keith
200 Series 2008, bull bar, Airmax snorkel,rack with 200 watt solar, third battery, winch, 33's with 2 spares, long range tank, drawers & barrier, bash plates, lifted & locked, Richards transmission lockup plus plenty of dings. Now towing the new Off Road Glamper.

Offline Bird

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #191 on: September 10, 2020, 09:36:55 AM »
My LC 200 is due back on Friday (tomorrow), God willing and the floods don't rise. They started with a crate engine already on the workshop floor when the vehicle was towed in. They knew that my wife and I were waiting in a local caravan park so that we could continue our trip.
This is a specialist truck and 4WD repair shop with what they claimed was extensive experience with this model Landcruiser, not some back yarder. They said that, if things went well, the job would take five working days.
However, this engine change will have taken a full three weeks to complete.
Can anyone top that record?
Keith
mate dropped his Patrol in for a Duramax SWAP - not complete conversion from scratch at a bloke he thought was a mate's work shop.
Over 2 yrs later he got back a rolling shell minus lots of his expensive goodies, spotties, winch, tyres etc... so did another mate at the same workshop in Pakenham Vic who turned out to be scamming dozens of people...
He had 1 engine he would swap around and take photos in 'your' car showing states of work, then remove it put it in the next car and rinse and repeat. Rumours were in the 7 figures he scammed people out of.
https://www.patrol4x4.com/threads/due-to-popular-demand.77377/page-27

pigeon said:
Hi Vince,
Any update on the Duramax???

.... yeah! its flying along. 12 months to this stage.

this took 12 mths.



how he got it back, with no engine/box/nothing.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 09:41:20 AM by Bird »
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Offline edz

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #192 on: September 10, 2020, 10:04:34 AM »
Admittedly not complicated with high tech EFI and such , But it only took me a week part time to convert a different brand engine into one of my 4WD's , Mounts, gearbox adaptors etc all built and machined from scratch to daily driver ..
For a specialist shop with all the gear and a straight forward swap, You would think there shouldnt have been more than 18 > 20 hrs worth of work in your job, one engine out 8 hrs / strip n fit bits 2 hrs / refit engine 8 hrs / run and checks 2hrs .. If everthing was there to do it ..
.. granted though depending on how busy they are they wouldnt have been on it alone the whole time ..

EDIT: Forgot about the MTA book allowance .. Where the guide book allows so much time for work to be carried out / charged  for each part of the exercise . IE to remove a manifold =4 hrs + refit = 4 hrs etc ..
« Last Edit: September 10, 2020, 10:15:10 AM by edz »
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Offline shanegtr

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #193 on: September 10, 2020, 11:17:20 AM »
However, this engine change will have taken a full three weeks to complete.
Can anyone top that record?
Keith
My sister in laws 200 took 6 weeks to replace two turbos. But they do live in Gove so I think about 3 weeks of that was waiting for parts to be barged in

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #194 on: September 10, 2020, 02:29:16 PM »
Hi Keith,

Been watching from the sidelines, hang in there!

Stumbled across mention of air filters in this clip today. Not sure if it's been covered already or suits your model but thought I'd pass it on.

See round the 6:40 mark for the terrain tamer stainless gasket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Nr_jwmrAw

Youtube: AUSSIE DREAM TOURER WEIGHT and FINAL REVEAL

Hope everything's good tomorrow.

Cheers, Paul.
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Offline bmwfreak

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #195 on: September 10, 2020, 02:30:37 PM »
My experience with Toyota, after reading this thread.


Hi,

I am contacting Toyota (Australia?) to notify them that I have an issue with my 2019 LC78. We completed a 320km route, which included 200km of gravel road. Vehicle performed on the gravel road as well as I had anticipated, and I have no complaints pertaining to its handling, etc.
What I do have a problem with, however, is that this recently serviced vehicle shows evidence of dust in the engine side of the air box, ie it has bypassed the air filter and allowed deposits of dust within the air box on the engine side. To my mind this should not be possible with a factory snorkel and OE air box.


Please advise what Toyota (Australia?) are willing to do re this matter, as I believe dust ingested into the motor and turbo is cause of catastrophic failure.

Regards,
Bruce Avery

I received a phone call from Toyota customer service explaining that thorough testing had taken place, by both Toyota Australia and Toyota Japan re the air box in the 4.5ltr V8. They could find no fault with the part in question, assuring me that if scheduled servicing was carried, as per the warranty booklet, then there won’t be an issue. I asked the CS respondent for this information in an emailed confirmation, which he was quite happy to do.

Toyota’s email response follows


I won’t add to this apart from advising that today we did another 150km of dirt, with a small amount (maybe 20 vehicles) of traffic travelling in the opposite direction, including a couple of 4 trailer road trains. On checking the air box on arrival at Burketown, I found no dust in the engine side of the intake.


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Offline KeithB

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #196 on: September 10, 2020, 05:55:45 PM »
Hi Keith,

Been watching from the sidelines, hang in there!

Stumbled across mention of air filters in this clip today. Not sure if it's been covered already or suits your model but thought I'd pass it on.

See round the 6:40 mark for the terrain tamer stainless gasket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8Nr_jwmrAw

Youtube: AUSSIE DREAM TOURER WEIGHT and FINAL REVEAL

Hope everything's good tomorrow.

Cheers, Paul.


This looks a lot cheaper than a $1000+ aftermarket air box. I think I'll order one as soon as I get home.
Many thanks
Keith
200 Series 2008, bull bar, Airmax snorkel,rack with 200 watt solar, third battery, winch, 33's with 2 spares, long range tank, drawers & barrier, bash plates, lifted & locked, Richards transmission lockup plus plenty of dings. Now towing the new Off Road Glamper.
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Offline gronk

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #197 on: September 10, 2020, 06:03:38 PM »

This looks a lot cheaper than a $1000+ aftermarket air box. I think I'll order one as soon as I get home.
Many thanks
Keith

This has been talked about in other forums and some say it's a good idea and others say the dust will still go straight thru the filter ( not past the seal area ).
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Offline shanegtr

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #198 on: September 10, 2020, 06:53:07 PM »

Toyota’s email response follows


Just gotta love toyota refering to their customers as guests :-\

Offline loanrangie

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Re: 200 Series diesel has cacked its dacks
« Reply #199 on: September 11, 2020, 09:55:18 AM »
My experience with Toyota, after reading this thread.


Hi,

I am contacting Toyota (Australia?) to notify them that I have an issue with my 2019 LC78. We completed a 320km route, which included 200km of gravel road. Vehicle performed on the gravel road as well as I had anticipated, and I have no complaints pertaining to its handling, etc.
What I do have a problem with, however, is that this recently serviced vehicle shows evidence of dust in the engine side of the air box, ie it has bypassed the air filter and allowed deposits of dust within the air box on the engine side. To my mind this should not be possible with a factory snorkel and OE air box.


Please advise what Toyota (Australia?) are willing to do re this matter, as I believe dust ingested into the motor and turbo is cause of catastrophic failure.

Regards,
Bruce Avery

I received a phone call from Toyota customer service explaining that thorough testing had taken place, by both Toyota Australia and Toyota Japan re the air box in the 4.5ltr V8. They could find no fault with the part in question, assuring me that if scheduled servicing was carried, as per the warranty booklet, then there won’t be an issue. I asked the CS respondent for this information in an emailed confirmation, which he was quite happy to do.

Toyota’s email response follows


I won’t add to this apart from advising that today we did another 150km of dirt, with a small amount (maybe 20 vehicles) of traffic travelling in the opposite direction, including a couple of 4 trailer road trains. On checking the air box on arrival at Burketown, I found no dust in the engine side of the intake.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

that is probably the cleanest filter housing i have ever seen.
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