Buying a house is doing my head in ! -found one !!!!!!!!!!

[weso]

Is any one else going through this at the moment and having trouble with idiot agents. After spending 2 weeks trying to get a counter offer on a house, he could have just said the vendor is not willing to budge on his price.


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[Bird]

Is any one else going through this at the moment and having trouble with idiot agents. After spending 2 weeks trying to get a counter offer on a house, he could have just said the vendor is not willing to budge on his price.

its all a game...they are trying to make as much for themselves... nothign else.. just move on, dont fall for their bullShit.

[Alan Loy]

I think that it is not unusual for agents to try to keep all interested parties still involved.  So telling you something that will get you to look elsewhere is not something that they like to do. 

Vendors are also likely to have difficulty making a decision on price so this could also be a factor particularly if the market in that area is not stable.

[weso]

Houses are selling in hrs not days or weeks its crazy !!!!!


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[Symon]

A key thing to remember is that the agents are always acting on behalf of the seller - that is after all the person who is paying them.  Their job is to get the best price they can for the client - the buyer is not the client.

Once you realise that the process becomes slightly less stressful.

[achjimmy]

A key thing to remember is that the agents are always acting on behalf of the seller - that is after all the person who is paying them.  Their job is to get the best price they can for the client - the buyer is not the client.

Once you realise that the process becomes slightly less stressful.

Symons you are correct in theory but in practice I have not always found that so. For a seller to drop $10k may have very little effect on the agents commission and gets the deal done. So i have found them to work for/with the buyer. I always swore that the next house I sell i will either do it my self or construct a very  proactive commission structure, that makes them work hard to get every last dollar for me, ie if I want $400k I will give them 25% of anything they get me above $400k but drop commission by 25% if they go under $395k

[achjimmy]

I know this isnt helping you Wes. My advise with agents is be firm and concise, give deadlines. Try to show them no emotions, discuss things with your wife in private. Let them think they have a hard case here doesn't hurt.

Good luck

[GeoffA]

A key thing to remember is that the agents are always acting on behalf of the seller......

No......they're double agents. Some will say or do whatever it takes (to either party) to get a sale......

[Symon]

Symons you are correct in theory but in practice I have not always found that so. For a seller to drop $10k may have very little effect on the agents commission and gets the deal done. So i have found them to work for/with the buyer.

Each to their own experiences, but $10k is not much of a drop so I can't really say that is doing much for the buyer.

I'm going through the fun of buying another property as I write this, and I am yet to find any agent, of the dozens I have had dealings with over the past year or so (yes I have been looking that long) that is the slightest bit interested in helping out the buyer.

[cruisindub]

Worse in UK, my brother has been trying to buy a house there for sometime. Moving to try to get his kids into a better school.

Something like 10 in a row are buying/selling and everybody is waiting for finance and the sale of their house before buying another and invariably, if your down the line, it only takes one to back out and that whole line of buyers/sellers fall apart.

Probably havent explained it too well, but basically, if the guy at the start of the line fails with any reason, you can be dropped out as they all come crashing down.

It sounds bizarre, but it really is that difficult.

In comparision, buying a house over here is easy.

If you understand that real estate agents only line their own pockets........

[Symon]

If you understand that real estate agents only line their own pockets........

And I don't hold that against them either - they have to make a living somehow.  Some of them even host pretty awesome Myswag trips

[McGirr]

Bloody agents, hang I am one 

Regretfully there are some poor agents in the industry.

An agent is there to secure the best price for the seller. Problem is a lot of sellers cannot accept what the market will pay.

As a buyer everyone wants an agent to work for them but a good agent should always work for the seller and the seller will always have the final say.

Agents survive on referral business and doing things poorly will reflect on their future business.

It also depends if its a sellers or buyers market. As mentioned tell the agent they have 24 hours for an answer or you are looking elsewhere.

Regarding real estate agents are there to line their pockets. Yes we would like to get paid for the work we do but this does not always happen. You can spend months working on a property and the seller can go with another agent , with draw the property or rent the property out and you don't get paid for the time spent. Recently I had 2 properties that after 2 contracts fall over on finance, after 60 and 90 days on the market and negotiating a price, one decided to withdraw their property and they other decided to go with another agent who would discount their commission. No income.

We only get paid if we sell a property and that can take months before you get paid. It's like someone going to work for a month and your employer saying sorry I am not paying you this month. Also working close to 7 days a week and getting calls in the evening is not everyone's type of job.

Working with buyers trying to find a house can also be difficult as unless you have the stock the buyer is after they will look elsewhere and some agents will not conjunct with another agent so we cannot help that buyer.  You can spend days taking a buyer through homes and they buy a property from another agent. You don't get paid for that. But on the flip side they may use you in the future if they were happy with your service and ask you to sell their home.

And you wonder why I drink 

Mark

[cruisindub]

Yeah, I thought McGir was a real estate guy.

Surely he can let us into the secret world of real estate agents...............     

We'll disguise his face and voice so other real estate agents dont know who the whistleblower is.!

[JCOJ]

As a real estate agent for the past 14 years I feel like I have the right to comment about some of the comments made.

Firstly, not ALL agents are the same. 

Agents have a Fiduciary responsibility to the vendor.  That means we have to look after the best interests of the seller.  But a simple thing like 'communication' goes a very long way.  A buyer should be kept informed of how their offer will be dealt with, a time frame of acceptance/rejection of their offer so they know where they stand, and an agent should be upfront if an offer is submitted that is too low, but still present it to the owner - and once presented, get feedback to the buyer.  My rule is that an answer has to be given to the buyer within 24 hours upon presentation of the offer, and I make my sellers aware of that when I list their properties.  Of course you may need to wait for other offers to come in which may take longer than that, but if the buyer is informed of that, then they understand the process.

And here's the thing many agents fail to realise - buyers eventually become sellers.  I find that if you keep both parites in the loop as to what is happening, you can still have a happy buyer, even though you try and get the best possible price for your seller.

Symon - I totally agree with you.  If you say to an agent 'please call me if you get another home similar' or something to that effect, it probably won't happen.  The reason for that is we get heaps of requests like this every day and you just can't keep track of everyone.  Instead of an agent saying 'sure I will' and them never hearing from the agent again, my approach is to be honest and say that we get so many people asking to be put on a list that it's impossible to manage it, but if you want to be kept upto date with what I bring onto the market then Like my Facebook page as everything I get goes onto that.

Again, there are good and bad in everything, but don't judge us all due to a couple of bad agents you may have come across.

[komodo]

My advice when it comes to houses it buy with your head not with your heart. I know its hard to do but it makes the process a lot easier in the long run.
Consider engaging a buyers advocate if you're having a lot of trouble. Not cheap but can make a world of difference. They have access to data joe average doesn't.
Have a list of must haves and wants.
Have a list of must not haves and undesirable.
Be prepared to talk to the estate agent principal if you're not getting what you want from the acting agent.

Missing a house isn't the end of the world. There will always be another house to make your home.

Don't over capitalise and be prepared to move through the property market over a period of time. Most of us don't buy our actual forever home till about home number 3 even though we shop for our first house as if its our forever home.

[cruisindub]

Touche,

Ask, and though will recieve !!!

Cheers McGirr

[cruisindub]

Talk about teh flood gates opening up now !!!


ok, who let all the real estate agents out.??

[Bird]

My advice when it comes to houses it buy with your head not with your heart. /quote]
bingo on that one..
the only auction I ever went to we watched some bloke bidding for a couple... the husband said stop, she said *one more*... about 10 times.. they won! Hubby was crying, saying thats thousands over out budget..... Agents said they expected it to go for around 300-320... it went for way over 400 k.

When she won, she went over and laughed in the face of the other bidder...  really was asking for a slapping. It must have been teh house she grew up in or something, cause she want losing.

[Goose]

My advice (coming from a real estate Agent's son):

Don't tell the Agent your budget or financial or employment situation. If they ask, tell them you are doing fine. Its none of their business.

If you're interested, ask the Agent up front at what price will the Vendor will sell the house for today?. The Agent always knows the selling price wanted but will often act like they don't know it in order to see how much you will spend. If the Agent can't tell you the price the Vendor wants then don't bother the Agent is just going to milk you.

Tell the Agent your verbal offer has a timeline as you are looking elsewhere. Give the Vendors at most 48 hours to accept verbally. Its really not that hard for them to decide to sell or not. They should already know what they want and its just a question of whether you price meets their expectation. If they stall you at this stage they are really just working on other offers or not serious about selling.

If the Vendor counter offers, tell the Agent you will only consider only one reasonable counter offer, then walk away if its unreasonable. If the Vendor really wants to sell to you they will rescind their counter offer.

Try and have multiple properties on the boil, and let the Agents know that you are looking elsewhere and talking to other Agents.

Always avoid houses that have just come on the market, or houses offered in any sort of "pre market launch" or "market preview" state. When the house is fresh on the market and the Vendor gets an offer straight away, they will generally try and cultivate better offers (out of greed) and stall you at the same time as a fail safe. This probably what is happening to the OP.

Never look at a house unless its already offered online with a set price. I once sold a house for $20K over my expectation by getting the Agent to show the house to buyers before it was listed online. The Agent told the buyers to 'make an offer' and one party offered $440K when i was only going to list at $420K.

Never look at any houses listed as "offers over" or "make an offer" or "offers between". The Vendor always has a price that they will sell at and the Agent should tell you if asked. If the Agent won't give a specific price or just gives some vague range then you can look forward to good dishonest milking. Walk away. Looking at or buying houses that are marketed in this way only encouraged the practice. Would you by a second-hand car if it was marketed as "offers over $20k"? Of course not.

Goose.

[dazzler]

An agent is there to secure the best price for the seller. Problem is a lot of sellers cannot accept what the market will pay.

This must make the job a real pain in the butt.  We have sold five homes and the only time it took more than a few weeks was when we thought it was worth more than the market would pay.

Do your own research and come to your own conclusion about the value of the property BEFORE speaking with an agent.  "What would I pay for this if I were the buyer".

Agents do earn their money and my hats off to most of them.

[Symon]

As mentioned tell the agent they have 24 hours for an answer or you are looking elsewhere.

As you say there are good and bad agents, and as JKohn said it is best not to tar with the same brush.

A recent experience is that we wanted to place an offer (in writing) for a house that we quite liked, and made what we thought was a reasonable offer considering the market.  The agent refused to put it in writing and informed the seller verbally, who turned down the offer.  We then decided to look elsewhere.  We were prepared to increase our offer, but to not put it in writing tells me the offer was not taken seriously so we walked.

Talk about teh flood gates opening up now !!!

ok, who let all the real estate agents out.??

Just wait until the scotch starts to flow...

[McGirr]

My advice (coming from a real estate Agent's son):

Don't tell the Agent your budget or financial or employment situation. If they ask, tell them you are doing fine. Its none of their business.

If you're interested, ask the Agent up front at what price will the Vendor will sell the house for today?. The Agent always knows the selling price wanted but will often act like they don't know it in order to see how much you will spend. If the Agent can't tell you the price the Vendor wants then don't bother the Agent is just going to milk you.

Tell the Agent your verbal offer has a timeline as you are looking elsewhere. Give the Vendors at most 48 hours to accept verbally. Its really not that hard for them to decide to sell or not. They should already know what they want and its just a question of whether you price meets their expectation. If they stall you at this stage they are really just working on other offers or not serious about selling.

If the Vendor counter offers, tell the Agent you will only consider only one reasonable counter offer, then walk away if its unreasonable. If the Vendor really wants to sell to you they will rescind their counter offer.

Try and have multiple properties on the boil, and let the Agents know that you are looking elsewhere and talking to other Agents.

Always avoid houses that have just come on the market, or houses offered in any sort of "pre market launch" or "market preview" state. When the house is fresh on the market and the Vendor gets an offer straight away, they will generally try and cultivate better offers (out of greed) and stall you at the same time as a fail safe. This probably what is happening to the OP.

Never look at a house unless its already offered online with a set price. I once sold a house for $20K over my expectation by getting the Agent to show the house to buyers before it was listed online. The Agent told the buyers to 'make an offer' and one party offered $440K when i was only going to list at $420K.

Never look at any houses listed as "offers over" or "make an offer" or "offers between". The Vendor always has a price that they will sell at and the Agent should tell you if asked. If the Agent won't give a specific price or just gives some vague range then you can look forward to good dishonest milking. Walk away. Looking at or buying houses that are marketed in this way only encouraged the practice. Would you by a second-hand car if it was marketed as "offers over $20k"? Of course not.

Goose.

Interesting comments.

One, if we don't know a budget that a buyer is looking at do we take them to a $300k house or a million dollar one.

Two, it always always good to know that a buyer has their finance approved other wise there is nothing worse for a seller going to contract and the buyer has no chance of getting finance and the property falls over.

Three, a seller never really knows what they will take when selling a home neither does an agent. A seller has expectations and puts a price on a property hoping to achieve close to that as is there right. A buyer will put in an offer and negotiations start from there.

Four, avoid house that have just come on the market ?? 

Selling your property for $20,000 more than you wanted was good work by the agent. That's our job. Did your agent tell the buyer sorry but the seller only wants $420,000 don't worry about the extra $20,000.

The real estate agents son must work for the buyer not his client.

At the end of the day if some one likes a home they will see value at a price.

The old saying" a seller wants too much and a buyer wants to pay too little, somewhere in the middle is the truth"

I have not started on the scotch yet.

Mark

[Goose]

One, if we don't know a budget that a buyer is looking at do we take them to a $300k house or a million dollar one.

Let me elaborate. I'm talking about situations where the Agent is talking to the buyer about a specific house. They are probably at the actual house doing an inspection and the Agent is trying the old "how much can you afford" trick. I've never seen an Agent who doesn't ask this question. If a house is listed at $300K and the buyer admits to the Agent they are pre-approved by a bank to $300K but they only offer $280K, then the buyer is on the back-foot from the start as the Agent knows its safe to try to push them higher.

The Agent doesn't need to know how much the buyer can afford, just that the buyer is acting within their means.

Two, it always always good to know that a buyer has their finance approved other wise there is nothing worse for a seller going to contract and the buyer has no chance of getting finance and the property falls over.

I appreciate your frustration as an Agent trying to sell houses that fall over on finance. And its fair enough to ask if they have finance in order, but its the Agents who enquire specifically about the level of finance & borrowing capacity of the buyer so that they can push the buyer higher in negotiations. City agent ask kind of stuff this straight up and think nothing of it.

Its no doubt different in the country where you often have multiple Agent selling the same house, more emphasis on reputation, etc etc.

Three, a seller never really knows what they will take when selling a home neither does an agent. A seller has expectations and puts a price on a property hoping to achieve close to that as is there right. A buyer will put in an offer and negotiations start from there.

I think most people who decide to sell have a very specific figure in mind for much they want. And the Agent knows its listed at $A but i'll take anything over $B. Its got a lot to do with how much they owe the bank, what they paid originally, their selling costs and so on. So you need to find out from the Agent what the $B figure is.

But regardless, I'm talking about Agents who commonly "feign" not knowing price the seller wants as a way to make initial negotiations more awkward. Its a simple question, it should have an answer. My feeling is that if the Agent can't be upfront about what price the seller wants, then the buyer is probably going to to hustled.

Four, avoid house that have just come on the market ?? 

Yep. Big problem in Sydney and it's a problem that the OP is most likely having in high turn-over area like Quakers Hill. Imagine a buyer is looking for a house for ages, sees one they like that is 'just listed'. They inspect it straight away and make an offer. The Vendors/Agent then sit on that offer whilst they cultivate other better offers. This is a very common practice now in the cities. My point to the OP is not to waste your time/emotions/effort on those newly listed properties. Wait till there is an open house and its been on the market for a week or two. If you buy it in the first week you will most likely be paying full price.

Selling your property for $20,000 more than you wanted was good work by the agent. That's our job. Did your agent tell the buyer sorry but the seller only wants $420,000 don't worry about the extra $20,000.

I was thrilled... but the point is to warn others of this happening. We didn't ask the Agent to do it this either. We finishing signing up on a Thursday. They had buyers around on Friday and a signed contract on Friday afternoon at $20K over. They never even photographed the house or put up a for-sale sign. If the guy who paid $440K knew we only wanted $420K he probably would have offered something below $410K.

Unfortunately this is becoming common now for good houses to be marketed in this "market preview" state before a price is published. Buyers are invited in an shown the house without being given a specific price, rather they are asked to make an offer. Desperate buyers get carried away and if there are multiple buys on-site it can turn into a mini informal auction.  Its great for the vendor but its terrible for the buyer as they can end up valuing the house themselves and paying too much.

[Bird]

heres one.
Why do houses get listed with "offers over XXXXXXX".

Why not put the amount you want and stop people wasting their time I personally ignored ads like that.. but found it annoying.

If it is "offers over $500,000" Im offering $500,500 - but half the time they want $590000 just wastes everyones time.

The funniest one a mate went through was "offers by X Date"
Everyone had to put their offers (I think with some $) in 1-2 mths early and ... wait and hope. You are not told or given indications until the end - and you cannot re"bid"
 In the mean time if you dont get the house you may miss out on 10 others.

[Goose]

heres one.
Why do houses get listed with "offers over XXXXXXX".

Why not put the amount you want and stop people wasting their time I personally ignored ads like that.. but found it annoying.

Exactly. And if enough people ignored those listings, then the practice would die out. But it won't as i suspect greedy vendors are probably asking for their house to be listed that way thinking it's uncapped profit.