WA Fires

[Bird]

/rant
Another burnoff gone toes up... And been burning since September?


Talking with dad last night to also spent 25yrs as RFS, back in the 60-80's before technology, modern trucks, permits, rules and planning, burnoffs we did never seemed to get away.. now so many do. specially in Victoria.

Today - another 30 homes and chalets, five sheds and two other buildings gone. + so much more that people will never get back... Having seen people go thru this in fires personally, words cant describe how shattering/destroying this can be to people. Fuq the money, thats not what many people are worried about... Their lives go up in smoke.

We need hazard reductions, theres no questioning that.. but something needs to change in how they are done.

We had one burn off blocked by the ... green people, due to some rare frog. ~9-12mths later fire went thru there, took out Mr Frog and everything on the ground, + dozen houses and life.

But they will have an "investigation" into it.... and then snafu.

The one good thing is to see other people in the region gettin behind those who have lost everything, and those that cannot get back home yet, and dont know if they have a home to go to..

Read more: http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/dozens-sought-refuge-while-their-township-burned-20111125-1nxoq.html#ixzz1eg3N3CYf

[bussoboy]

having grown up in the general area and still having many friends down that way my heart goes out to all that are suffering and my thanks goes to those that are fighting the flames

such a needless tragic waste

[Maîneÿ . . .]

Margaret River is 45 Km from Busselton, the smoke is in the air, it can be smelt and seen, I think there is no way to stop the fire unless we get rain and that is not predicted because the fire front is reported as being 20 Km wide

It will be affecting so many people, businesses and then there is the livestock

Many affected locals have been put up here in Busso.

Then there is the Skoolies, well they will be here or at Dunsborough 
Must be about time to go to Perth to have some peace an quiet

[Maîneÿ . . .]

This
is
worth
a
second
post

it's RAINING   

Bugga, didn't last too long, all humid now

[gadgetman]

Our farm was just east of Perth and we did our burns around this time every couple of years in conjunction with DEC or CALM as it was known then. We never had an out of control fire through our area in the 30 years there. I recall that DEC were always concious of the prevailing conditions and I know they had a few uncontrolled outbreaks during the burn offs but fortunately nothing drastic happened. None of the affected people we knew ever complained about it as they understood the potential consequences if nothing was done. 

It is a tragic outcome down there but imagine if that fire happened in January on a 40 degree day during school holidays.

[Stormchaser]

/rant
We need hazard reductions, theres no questioning that.. but something needs to change in how they are done.

Hazard reduction what's that??
Been in the RFS for 17 years, the last hazard reduction we did was about 10 years ago our drip torches wouldn't know what has hit them if we tried to use them now!
Just lucky its raining here the only saving grace at the moment.
Too much paperwork and politics just to strike a match so they dont bother round here plus the window of opportunity is only about 6-8 weeks each year so not much time at all.
Usually they wait till the mushroom cloud goes up in these parts and deal with it then rather than trying to prevent or minimise the impact before it happens.

[Bird]

Too much paperwork and politics just to strike a match so they dont bother round here plus the window of opportunity is only about 6-8 weeks each year so not much time at all.

Bingo.. thats how it became when I pulled the pin.

[POD]

The total F - wit clowns at the DEC were burning off with a forecast of 37 degrees and winds of about 70 kmh. THAT is why it takes so much paperwork to burn off in smart states because freaking idiotic morons reckon they can overcome the forces of nature in W.A.

I reckon they should be charged with criminal negligence.

POD's 2cents.

[Top.ender]

The total F - wit clowns at the DEC were burning off with a forecast of 37 degrees and winds of about 70 kmh. THAT is why it takes so much paperwork to burn off in smart states because freaking idiotic morons reckon they can overcome the forces of nature in W.A.

I reckon they should be charged with criminal negligence.

POD's 2cents.

x2

[Maîneÿ . . .]

The total F - wit clowns at the DEC were burning off with a forecast of 37 degrees and winds of about 70 kph.
THAT is why it takes so much paperwork to burn off in smart states because freaking idiotic morons reckon they can overcome the forces of nature in W.A.

I reckon they should be charged with criminal negligence.

POD's 2cents.

Lets get factual 

The burn-off was started many weeks ago in cool weather - not when it was 37° or gusting winds either

it has just flared up uncontrollably recently, remember it has a 20 Km firefront now so it's difficult to manage.

[Mace]

From what Ive read, it would appear that the burn they lit recently was a last ditch attempt to hold in the long term burn that was still running about within its burnt perimeter. Is this a correct reading of the situation?

If so, looks like they were in between the proverbial rock/hard place.

[Maîneÿ . . .]

From what Ive read, it would appear that the burn they lit recently was a last ditch attempt to hold in the long term burn that was still running about within its burnt perimeter. Is this a correct reading of the situation?

Can I ask where it is you read it??
as I'm a 'local' and am being advised by the local Shire 

(not saying they, or you, are incorrect) 
Just seeking answers

[Mace]

Should have said seen  not read.

ABC over here last night had a DEC spokesperson talking about the situation that had evolved during the past few weeks. 

He said that there was a large area of unburnt material within the pre existing fire and that they were concerned about it "going for a run" (not exact words, but similar) and breaking control lines.

Having been in a similar situation (wildfire planning unit), I put two and two together and came to the conclusion that the re-light on Wednesday was an attempt to thicken control lines.

That is probably  the most usual reason for escapes IMO and experience - lighting control burns in less than suitable conditions, when you really dont want to, but need to try something.

[Bird]

Lets get factual 

The burn-off was started many weeks ago in cool weather - not when it was 37° or gusting winds either

September from what i read on one news feed.

[2 Brutal]

No controlled burn lasts 3 months, what did they do, light the whole state up and this is the only unburnt bit of ground.
Someone needs their ass kicked if a controlled burn can fester for nearly 3 months and then go ape Shit like it has.

Same as the bright dimwits that allowed a controlled burn on Fraser Island to be lit 1 week before school holidays and then it gets out of control because the forcast 30-40km/h winds arrived as forecast.
This is the 2nd time in 2 years Fraser has had out of control hazard reductions.

[fishfinder]

Is it true if you want to knock down a tree on your own property in that region you need to apply for a permit / permission ?

[D4D]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/official-linked-to-two-wa-disasters-20111125-1nzkg.html

An official labelled as incompetent over the 2007 fire deaths of three truck drivers near Coolgardie approved the prescribed burn that resulted in the devastating Margaret River fire.

[Maîneÿ . . .]

Is it true if you want to knock down a tree on your own property in that region you need to apply for a permit / permission ?

YES, and you can't knockdown a tree that the local possums live in either, they have more rights here than people 

They wanted to extend the local hospital, the plans had to be modified because they would disturb the possums

[Bird]

An official labelled as incompetent over the 2007 fire deaths of three truck drivers near Coolgardie approved the prescribed burn that resulted in the devastating Margaret River fire.

Having been involved with a coronial inquest into the death of fire fighters in Sydney in the 80's, my thoughts on a coronors inquest are they are nothing but we must find someone to point the finger and and blame, more than much else.

4 different QC's (?)asking this bloke the same questions all day for 3 straight days but asking them worded slightly differently hoping to hell for him to answer just one of them differently, then they flogged him over that for hours. they had to have breaks every hour or so as the bloke couldnt take it, he was in tears... This was the 2IC in the shire at the time... As it was in the end, he had nothing to answer for.

[Bird]

Its never a good time of yr fo this sort of Shit to happen, but this is Christmas..


Anyone know of donation centers or places to donate kids toys and clothes yet? We cleaned out the kids rooms week or so ago, have a ton of stuff to give em, and bed n dressers etc.

[Maîneÿ . . .]

Anyone know of donation centers or places to donate kids toys and clothes yet? We cleaned out the kids rooms week or so ago, have a ton of stuff to give em, and bed n dressers etc.

Nice thought 

I believe the local Lions and Rotary Clubs here in Busselton are the drop off point and have the distribution job

( I will find out and post it up here )

[SteveandViv]

What was on the news up here was that there was still one hot spot and when the winds came the the embers started this new fire. We were told they all thought the original burn was out and had all but packed up and gone home.

like others this is just what we heard.

[fishfinder]

YES, and you can't knockdown a tree that the local possums live in either, they have more rights here than people 

They wanted to extend the local hospital, the plans had to be modified because they would disturb the possums

So what hope have they if they can not knock down a few trees for preventative fire hazard around their property ?

[Trackaprado]

http://www.theage.com.au/national/official-linked-to-two-wa-disasters-20111125-1nzkg.html

An official labelled as incompetent over the 2007 fire deaths of three truck drivers near Coolgardie approved the prescribed burn that resulted in the devastating Margaret River fire.

If these guys had to respond to a house fire, they'd start with a backburn in your kitchen

[dazzler]

You don't cut trees down to protect your home. Trees stop / restrict ember attack which is the major cause of houses catching. Trees also  slow wind speed.

You need to create a fuel buffer zone around the property and then a modified fuel zone further out. None of this involves trees. Shrubs and small stuff are fine. Some lower limbs as well.

That's the latest fire hazard advice anyway.


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