Author Topic: Power and gas is to expensive.  (Read 46886 times)

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Offline rotare

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2017, 04:33:04 PM »
Quote
That is probably the biggest risk with nuclear: It takes so long to see a return on investment, if one comes at all. Imagine you start building a nuclear power plant today. If, at some point in the next two decades, some hardworking genius builds a battery capable of storing wind or solar energy, scrubs the carbon out of coal emissions, or plugs the methane leaking from natural gas, the odds of there being a market for your expensive atomic energy by the time you finish construction is pretty slim.

The logic there's no point in doing anything because there's likely to be something better down the track seems almost irrational.  Is there likely to be new technologies and innovations in 20 years time.... of course there will be.  Can anyone predict what exactly they will be..... nope. 

In twenty years time we'll probably be still saying let's not do anything yet cause a big tech break through is just a decade away....
 

Offline Champin

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2017, 06:47:22 PM »
Japan are  currently in the process of reinvesting in clean coal power stations and shutting down nukes after Fukashima. Might be something in that for the short term.
 I heard something on the wireless the other day the electricity providers were going to give you a fairly sudstantial subsidy if you opt to switch of your air con on peak period hot days. This is mainly due to Hazelwood shutting down in Gippsland which provided 25% of vics power. They are pooing themselves because they didn't and still haven't got a back up plan to make up that 25%. Right now in Victoria there are alot of people going to bed super early just to stay warm as they cannot afford to run their heaters. The same I would presume go for summer and air conditioners.
 My power bill 3 years ago was around $300 per quarter. Now it is $850. And the gubermin bloke sez in 2 or 3 years they should be able to knock $30 per annum of my bill. Well excuse me if I'm not cracking a fat one.

Offline Cruiser 105Tvan

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2017, 06:58:34 PM »
Japan are  currently in the process of reinvesting in clean coal power stations and shutting down nukes after Fukashima. Might be something in that for the short term.
 I heard something on the wireless the other day the electricity providers were going to give you a fairly sudstantial subsidy if you opt to switch of your air con on peak period hot days. This is mainly due to Hazelwood shutting down in Gippsland which provided 25% of vics power. They are pooing themselves because they didn't and still haven't got a back up plan to make up that 25%. Right now in Victoria there are alot of people going to bed super early just to stay warm as they cannot afford to run their heaters. The same I would presume go for summer and air conditioners.
 My power bill 3 years ago was around $300 per quarter. Now it is $850. And the gubermin bloke sez in 2 or 3 years they should be able to knock $30 per annum of my bill. Well excuse me if I'm not cracking a fat one.


Well said.
It's just too little, too late, or never at all.
And these politicians say they're lookin after us, yeah right.
Robert. 
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Offline McGirr

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2017, 07:37:14 PM »
Cost us nothing to live remote. 3 bedroom house free power, free internet, free rent and free water.  ;D

Yes I will get back in my box.

Mark
Living the dream working our way around Australia.

Ernabella SA, Warburton WA, Mt Barnett Roadhouse in the Kimberley, Peppimenarti NT, Ramingining NT, Gapuwiyak NT, Gunbalanya NT, Bidyadanga WA, Ali Curung NT, Tjuntjuntjara WA.

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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 07:41:32 PM »
Clean coal.....thats like saying an honest politician.  No such a thing...

Online Pete79

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Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2017, 08:01:27 PM »
Clean coal.....thats like saying an honest politician.  No such a thing...
:) :) ;D

I hear Mr Adani is sending over boat loads of workers with little brushes to scrub that coal nice and clean before they ship it out.... ;D
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 08:05:34 PM by Pete79 »

Offline edz

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2017, 08:02:27 PM »
Cost us nothing to live remote. 3 bedroom house free power, free internet, free rent and free water.  ;D

Yes I will get back in my box.

Mark
Next you will try to tell us theres Good clean air, No traffic gridlock and something silly like its a Paradise ...  You wait young fella, One day you will come back to real world reality ;D ;D 
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Offline McGirr

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2017, 08:36:05 PM »
Next you will try to tell us theres Good clean air, No traffic gridlock and something silly like its a Paradise ...  You wait young fella, One day you will come back to real world reality ;D ;D

What traffic, air is perfect, its paradise and will never come back to the rat race. Not for a very long time. You can all have that :cheers:

Mark
Living the dream working our way around Australia.

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Offline glenm64

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2017, 08:49:22 PM »
Cost us nothing to live remote. 3 bedroom house free power, free internet, free rent and free water.  ;D

Yes I will get back in my box.

Mark
Son#2 still at home has free house, power, water, food, internet, washing, ironing, in fact everything is free. It just costs me an arm and leg.

Cheers Glen

There's a big difference between kneeling down
......... and bending over.

Online austastar

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2017, 09:10:26 PM »
Hi,
    Back about 5 years ago our power bills were about $1000 per year.
I spent 7 times that on a 5kW solar installation and haven't had a bill since, and now we are $2000 in credit, and it has now paid for itself.
At the moment we get back 28c/kW feed in tariff,  which will drop back to 8c/kW eventually.
It would be nice to get some batteries and go off grid totally.
Cheers

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk


Offline edz

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2017, 09:16:29 PM »
" What traffic, air is perfect, its paradise and will never come back to the rat race. Not for a very long time. You can all have that "

I hear you Mark, loud and clear on that one.
 If circumstance would allow it [ Needed for medical reasons ] the best part of where we live at the moment, would be watching it disappear into the distance in the rear view mirror .
" IMPROVISE  ADAPT   OVERCOME   and  PERSEVERE  "

Offline tryagain

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2017, 10:18:57 PM »
At the moment we get back 28c/kW feed in tariff, 

And there is another reason that power bills have gone up, that's not government subsidising that.

Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #37 on: September 13, 2017, 10:22:31 PM »
The bad news just gets worse for our esteemed overlords in panic mode as described in 'The Australian' today-

'EnergyAustralia has warned it could be forced to shut one of the nation’s newest and most ­efficient black-coal-fired power stations supplying up to 1.2 million customers in NSW, following a Court of Appeal decision it claims has threatened its only supply of coal to the plant.
The potential closure would take up to 1400 megawatts out of the energy market, or the equivalent of 15 per cent of electricity supply to the NSW system.
The Australian has confirmed with EnergyAustralia executives that the prospect of a forced shutdown of the Mount Piper power station in central-western NSW, which has an operational life to 2042, was a “real risk” following legal action launched by green ­activist group 4nature against planning consent for an extension of the Springvale mine owned by Centennial Coal.
The uncertainty is believed ­already to be having an impact on power prices.'

These Greenies are Hell bent on driving us all back to the horse, bullock, millstream and windmill days. We're fast running out of reliable thermal power and these bright sparks reckon now we all have to move to plug-in, rechargeable, electric cars. Something does not compute drongos and I'm seriously considering following the lead from Premier Weatherill and Co- http://www.mygenerator.com.au/

PS: Sparky son already has 2 clients in Adelaide wanting him to wire up these as soon as the gasfitters have plumbed them up-
http://www.mygenerator.com.au/generac-13kva-gas-stand-by-generator.html
and more to come as soon as more stocks arrive presumably? Seems the well-to-do are not sitting idly by awaiting the threat of blackouts in summer.   
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline Champin

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2017, 07:47:06 AM »
Years ago I did some work on an experiental coal cleaning plant in Baccus Marsh in vic.   Not entirely sure on the process but it seemed to involve super heating the coal. It appeared to be a fairly cost prohibitive process. If we venture down that path I can see the cost of power going astronomical.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 07:48:52 AM by Champin »

Offline edz

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2017, 08:24:26 AM »
Maybe they should just " unbury "  the small portable safe nuke reactor technology capable of powering 20.000 houses .. The reactor is about  as big as a small car and produces waste the size of a football after 10 years of use .  Hyperion nuclear reactor produces power for about 10c a Kw
 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/nov/09/miniature-nuclear-reactors-los-alamos
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Online Pete79

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2017, 09:22:04 AM »
I recon you're getting closer to the solution there edz.

Small scale local generation supplied on demand.

There's some great examples of community funded local power generation that works really well for the locals who have invested in their own power supply.
Only trouble is those people invested in renewables, that doesn't fit in with the Australian Newspaper's agenda and won't get full page spreads like those other meddling greenies do.... ;)

Offline Bird

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2017, 09:38:38 AM »
Quote from: prodigyrf
.... following legal action launched by green ­activist group 4nature  against planning consent for an extension of the Springvale mine owned by Centennial Coal.
So they pass legislation to say **** you green ****... they pass it like farts for Shit that doesn't matter.. why not for this. ??? ???
-
Click to enlarge

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Offline tryagain

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2017, 09:56:13 AM »
Maybe they should just " unbury "  the small portable safe nuke reactor technology capable of powering 20.000 houses .. The reactor is about  as big as a small car and produces waste the size of a football after 10 years of use .  Hyperion nuclear reactor produces power for about 10c a Kw
 https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2008/nov/09/miniature-nuclear-reactors-los-alamos

Seems to me pretty typical to a lot of the idea's you hear about in the energy space, full of promise in press releases but doesn't eventuate for whatever reason. That article was from nearly 10 years ago with units supposed to be shipping 4 years ago but can find very little about them since. Similarly, I remember seeing the idea's to harvest wave energy and geothermal energy years ago that painted them as very workable solutions for base load renewables but have heard very little about them since.

Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2017, 12:15:41 PM »
Similarly, I remember seeing the idea's to harvest wave energy and geothermal energy years ago that painted them as very workable solutions for base load renewables but have heard very little about them since.

Ummmm....
http://www.energybusinessnews.com.au/energy/tidal/oceanlix-calls-in-receivers/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-05-17/huge-swell-sinks-wave-energy-generator/829282
and you may recall our Climate Commissioner Tim Flannery at the time spruiking hot rocks-
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-30/geothermal-power-plant-closes-deemed-not-financially-viable/7798962
At least he did have shares in Geodynamics himself although we all did with a $90million handout from Treasury on his advice. I think it's called Green sinking funds  :'(     
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline tryagain

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #44 on: September 14, 2017, 12:55:22 PM »
Ummmm....
http://www.energybusinessnews.com.au/energy/tidal/oceanlix-calls-in-receivers/
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-05-17/huge-swell-sinks-wave-energy-generator/829282
and you may recall our Climate Commissioner Tim Flannery at the time spruiking hot rocks-
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-30/geothermal-power-plant-closes-deemed-not-financially-viable/7798962
At least he did have shares in Geodynamics himself although we all did with a $90million handout from Treasury on his advice. I think it's called Green sinking funds  :'(   


It was a different wave harvesting outfit I were thinking of but probably went the same way. I think this quote nails my point on the head.

Quote
"I think it was talked up too much — it's a very nice concept on the front page of a newspaper, looks very easy to do, and I think it was over-spruiked," he said.

Offline edz

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2017, 01:10:38 PM »
Everyone produces  garbage in quantity so maybe a couple of these types of plants https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8StpMP9eDoo
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #46 on: September 14, 2017, 01:35:47 PM »
Meanwhile out in the real world The Australian reports 13 Sept 2017-

'Nations around the world are building coal-fired power plants at a faster rate than those being ­decommissioned. The plants under construction reflect a 10 per cent increase to the total global generation powered by coal.
New electricity generated by coal-fired plants will outstrip that which was retired in 2015 and 2016 by a factor of five.
With Australia facing a policy crisis over energy security and the winding back of reliance on coal, construction of new coal-fired power plants was increasing in at least 35 countries, according to data analysis supplied to the ­Nationals by the federal ­parliamentary library. China has 299 new coal generation units under construction, followed by India which is building 132. Australia’s closest neighbour, Indo­nesia, was planning a further 32.
Nuclear countries, including Japan and South Africa, were also increasing their exposure to coal-powered investment, with 21 new plants between them. Vietnam was building 34.
The data was requested by ­Nationals senator and party whip John Williams, who has argued that the carbon emissions produced by the new plants worldwide would eclipse Australia’s total carbon emission profile.
“We don’t have a tent over Australia … emissions are going up around the world because of these generators being built,” ­Senator Williams told The Australian. “We are bowing down to the green agenda which will make no difference to the world’s ­emissions.
“It makes no sense. We will de-industrialise Australia and let everything be manufactured overseas with higher emissions.”'
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline Cruiser 105Tvan

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #47 on: September 14, 2017, 02:53:36 PM »
Meanwhile out in the real world The Australian reports 13 Sept 2017-


“We don’t have a tent over Australia … emissions are going up around the world because of these generators being built,” ­Senator Williams told The Australian. “We are bowing down to the green agenda which will make no difference to the world’s ­emissions.
“It makes no sense. We will de-industrialise Australia and let everything be manufactured overseas with higher emissions.”'

And there lies the problem.
Green groups applying their agenda selectively around the world, and dragging us back to the Stone Age.
Robert. 
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Offline corndog

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #48 on: September 14, 2017, 05:01:17 PM »
Son#2 still at home has free house, power, water, food, internet, washing, ironing, in fact everything is free. It just costs me an arm and leg.

Cheers Glen
3 kids at home here. Costs me both arms and legs.

Offline alnjan

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #49 on: September 14, 2017, 06:53:37 PM »
And there lies the problem.
Green groups applying their agenda selectively around the world, and dragging us back to the Stone Age.

That's about the extent of it
Cheers

Al and/or Jan