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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bigfish on May 02, 2019, 06:13:50 AM

Title: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 02, 2019, 06:13:50 AM
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-02/the-history-birth-death-resurrection-of-the-electric-car/11053928 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-02/the-history-birth-death-resurrection-of-the-electric-car/11053928)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on May 02, 2019, 09:57:37 AM
and now Bill is backing away from his earlier 'thought bubble' of 50% new cars being electric. 
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 02, 2019, 10:20:50 AM
and now Bill is backing away from his earlier 'thought bubble' of 50% new cars being electric.

Will be interesting to see how things pan out.  Even libs estimated between 25 and 50% electric in the same timeframe as labor.  Suppose we will have to wait 20+ years to see what really happens...Many manufacturers are already talking all electric within a the next decade.


Doesnt really matter what we want...its what we get from the manufacturers...
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 02, 2019, 11:11:03 AM
Doesnt really matter what we want...its what we get from the manufacturers...
The whole thing in a nutshell right there!

The Australian car market is minuscule.
There’s about 12 million more people just in California then there is in the whole of Australia.
And I think we all know the way they want to see the future of vehicles go over there....

We have no say in the direction of this market...

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Spada on May 02, 2019, 11:42:20 AM
Glad I chose this year to do a trip to the cape...................not sure a Prius would tow the camper, let alone find a charge point on the OTT?
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 02, 2019, 12:11:11 PM
Glad I chose this year to do a trip to the cape...................not sure a Prius would tow the camper, let alone find a charge point on the OTT?


Sell the camper/trailer and buy a 50kva generator to mount on an off road trailer ......
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 02, 2019, 12:13:48 PM
The whole thing in a nutshell right there!

The Australian car market is minuscule.
There’s about 12 million more people just in California then there is in the whole of Australia.
And I think we all know the way they want to see the future of vehicles go over there....

We have no say in the direction of this market...



I would agree, that's why I think we as a country should just roll with it as opposed to mandating it. With Labours target, the issue is, if it's aspirational, then it's pretty much meaningless words. If it's legislated, then it requires either a subsidy to make them financially more attractive (Taxpayer $$$ wasted) or a new form of tax on non-EVs, which would be on top of the free ride EV's already get in regards to fuel excise, which raises about $12Billion year.

Any artificial inflation of EV's is just going to cost money and have little to no impact on their availability or climate change from when you consider it from a global perspective. Early adopters with technology normally pay a premium for not much more than bragging rights in return.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: JusyApples on May 02, 2019, 06:00:00 PM
Car advice have done a stack of work on this of late.
Bill claimed Toyota were going full electric with their vehicles. Toyota confirmed this was not the case. They are still spending their money refining petrol and Diesel engines.

How will all this be powered without coal or nuclear power?

It’s come out that Bill wants the states to legislate that people are required to install a charger when remodelling or building a new home.

Coupled with his emission targets which he won’t cost it sounds like an expensive time for Australia.

He’s also shown he has no idea the time and cost of electric vehicles. What did he say? You could charge a battery in 8mins.

What happens for those who live in apartments, have off street parking, who want to go to remote places?

The whole thing is just made up on the spot. If he was so worried about emissions, why’s he driving around in a big red bus.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: KeithB on May 02, 2019, 06:28:49 PM
I think as EVS become popular, servos will start replacing gas bowsers with EV chargers. There are now super capacitor chargers on the way that can charge a car in 5-10 minutes. The servos will love that because customers might go into the store and buy something.

Keith
Recently retired publisher of national service station trade magazine.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on May 02, 2019, 06:34:46 PM
I think as EVS become popular, servos will start replacing gas bowsers with EV chargers. There are now super capacitor chargers on the way that can charge a car in 5-10 minutes. The servos will love that because customers might go into the store and buy something.

Keith
Recently retired publisher of national service station trade magazine.

If I understand what I have read while there are fast chargers, the 5-10 minute chargers, but the electric vehicle may not have the capability to be fast charged and will only take the 'slow' charge.  Basically Tesla do a fast charge vehicle that matches their fast charger but other vehicle makers are slow charge vehicles designed to either plug in at home and charge over night or during the day at work. 

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: corndog on May 02, 2019, 07:25:12 PM
People get agro waiting 5 mins to fill up the car now. You think they will be happy waiting another 5,10 mins or more. And put another 200,000 cars on the road in the city, in the next 10 years and we will have another rage. Charging rage....
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 08:06:55 PM
I am one off those bragging rights people because I have order and paid for my Model 3
I will keep my Landcruiser 76 because the Government will not be able to pay for all the Non-Federal highways maintenance since everyone will be driving electrical cars and no one will be paying the fuel levy for the road maintenance. Back roads will be dirt roads so you will need a 4wd to travel outside the cities or on the secondary road between cities.

OK, not really true but who will pay for the road maintenance is if no-one is buying fuel?

It amaze me when I visits the family is South Africa every 4 years how the potholes are getting bigger and the secondary roads turn to ‘tracks’. The highways are fine.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pottsy on May 02, 2019, 08:09:27 PM
Has anyone got any ideas on how much it costs to recharge your car, is it meant to be cheaper than petrol/ diesel?
As we move to be less reliant on coal and fossil fuels where is the base load power going to come from?
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: sharkcaver on May 02, 2019, 08:34:27 PM
Has anyone got any ideas on how much it costs to recharge your car, is it meant to be cheaper than petrol/ diesel?

Petrol/diesel has far more energy stored within a kilogram of the stuff than a kilogram of coal. So you have to consume a whole lot more coal to produce the same energy output. Petrol/diesel around 44Mj/Kg, coal around 20Mj/kg. You almost need twice as much coal for the same energy output.

The question I would like to see answered:

How much greenhouse gas is produced burning a Kg of petrol/diesel compared to burning the equivalent energy output of coal (near 2Kg)?

Renewables may become an answer in the future, but we need to see a large cost reduction for it to compete with coal.

That's why dino fuels still rule atm.

With advances in tech and cost reductions, I'm sure elec vehicles will become cost competitive at some stage in the future and cleaner than they are now.

But that's not going to help a vast, remote arid continent like we live in unless we want to be city bound.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 08:35:24 PM
Labour want all schools to have solar with batteries, so that the school can act like a mini-power station during the non-school days and weekend. Not sure how it will work in regards to feed in tariff
I have solar and batteries. Battery (Powerwall 2) was installed August 2017. I have not paid a power bill since then.
I am about to add more solar and another Powerwall 2 to my setup. I will then be 100% self sufficient

But I agree, base load power is required until an alternative cheap renewable power source is developed. I am fortunate to be able to afford my setup.
It looks like Domestic solar and batteries with gas turbines will be Labour’s short to medium term solution.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigpickle on May 02, 2019, 09:04:16 PM
I find it astounding that on a Forum where motor vehicles are at least 50% of the topics, there are so many uninformed people posting uninformed opinions.
The majority of opinions are direct quotes from either Morrison or Shorten with a smattering of " I heard that...."
If you are going to post at least try and post something relevant or informed rather than recycled political claptrap.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on May 02, 2019, 09:18:46 PM
Mapped: Electric Car Charging Stations & Locations in Australia

https://www.drivezero.com.au/electric-car-charging-stations/ (https://www.drivezero.com.au/electric-car-charging-stations/)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: corndog on May 02, 2019, 09:27:10 PM
Can someone tell me how many more solar farms, wind farms, battery banks etc. are going to be needed to charge all these electric cars that are driving around our roads in say 30 years time, as well as supply power to the 10,15,20 mllion or more people that will be living and working in this country,
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 09:35:04 PM
I find it astounding that on a Forum where motor vehicles are at least 50% of the topics, there are so many uninformed people posting uninformed opinions.
The majority of opinions are direct quotes from either Morrison or Shorten with a smattering of " I heard that...."
If you are going to post at least try and post something relevant or informed rather than recycled political claptrap.

That will be difficult for me since I am not creative and do not create new stuff, I just recycle and re-post, so will try and port (RE-post) less.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 09:45:02 PM
Can someone tell me how many more solar farms, wind farms, battery banks etc. are going to be needed to charge all these electric cars that are driving around our roads in say 30 years time, as well as supply power to the 10,15,20 mllion or more people that will be living and working in this country,

It does not answer your question but see page 8, visual presentation of key stats.
Page 23, table 3.2 provide hard stats that states what everyone knows, renewables is a long way of to replace fossil fuel.
Solar farms (2016/17) produced 0.3% of the total output.

https://www.energy.gov.au/sites/default/files/australian_energy_update_2018.pdf (https://www.energy.gov.au/sites/default/files/australian_energy_update_2018.pdf)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: KeithB on May 02, 2019, 09:51:46 PM
On EV's a lot of people ask rhetorical questions like:

"How are we going to charge it?"
"How long will I have to queue up to get a charge?"
"How will the grid cope with all of these charging stations?"
"What if I want to travel into regional areas?"
"Where is the energy going to come from to charge all of these EVs?"
"When will EVs be affordable?"
"If nobody is paying petrol tax, how are we going to pay for the roads?"

These questions are raised by the questioner more as an exclamation more than a question. It's as though, because they don't know the answer, there is no answer.
Just look at mobile phones from 20 years ago and compare that to now. Every smart phone is a sophisticated computer. And that happened in less than a dozen or so years.

There is world wide rush by governments and manufacturers to EVs. Scientists everywhere are working on new battery technology. One program at the University of Sydney is aiming at getting batteries down to $100 per KWH within two or three years and is running small scale trials right now

Here's my fearless forecast for 2005 2025 (Typo fixed. Thanks Tryagain.:

EVs will be at least as cheap as petrol cars.

People will still have big diesel 4x4s for recreational and possibly farm use.

Range will be around 600km and they will suit super fast capacitor chargers.

Every service station will have multiple fast charging stations.

Something else will get taxed to make up the lost fuel excise, possibly a lift in the GST.


I'm looking forward to the arrival of EVs and one will probably be our next second car.

Keith

[/list][/list][/list][/list]
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 02, 2019, 09:56:28 PM
Keith

Your 2005 forecast was not out by much.
Any change of picking the lotto numbers for me.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 02, 2019, 09:56:55 PM
Can someone tell me how many more solar farms, wind farms, battery banks etc. are going to be needed to charge all these electric cars that are driving around our roads in say 30 years time, as well as supply power to the 10,15,20 mllion or more people that will be living and working in this country,

I see electric cars as a short term feel good solution to a problem that isn't yet a problem. The problem is the people who think we can dump coal powered stations before we can reliably and CHEAPLY supply that power with something else.

When the world HAS to go away from fossil fueled cars, it may be another fossil fuel....maybe nuclear of some description......and if I had the answer to that, I would be richer than Elon Musk..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 02, 2019, 10:00:59 PM


I'm looking forward to the arrival of EVs and one will probably be our next second car.

Keith

[/list][/list][/list][/list]

They're here now.....rush out now and buy one. They're only approx twice the price of the similar petrol ones !!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 02, 2019, 10:29:41 PM
I think most people make a much bigger deal out of charging than it really is, with a 500ish km range, you will just charge at home 95% of the time, when you are doing a greater than that trip is when you will use a super charger.
I have seen some videos on YouTube of people trecking across the US in there Tesla, the Car guides them to the Supercharger in the town, they hook it up and tell them how long it will take them to get enough charge to get to the next stop, they go off to get a feed and the Car messages them in half an hr  (or less for a part charge) or so to let them know it's good to go.

Sure we don't have the charging infrastructure in place here yet that they do, but Tesla probably already has more chargers than you realise and that number will only grow.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Paddler Ed on May 02, 2019, 10:59:57 PM
Ownership of cars is falling amongst those who live in the cities - not just in Australia, but worldwide in the EU, USA and other "developed" countries:

From the Australian (https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/inquirer/if-car-ownership-keeps-growing-australians-will-be-outnumbered/news-story/92f65fe440421d9ede7155e895db723c):
Quote
In the City of Melbourne, 76 per cent of households (mostly apartments and terraces) report having no car. In the Sydney CBD including Haymarket and The Rocks the no-car community comprises 57 per cent of all households. In the Adelaide CBD this proportion is 40 per cent while in central Brisbane it is 35 per cent.

Whilst in the USA they're seeing that some age groups are less likely to own a car than their parents or grandparents at the same age https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/demographic-shifts-shaping-future-car-ownership/ (https://knowledge.wharton.upenn.edu/article/demographic-shifts-shaping-future-car-ownership/)

So what does that mean? I use my brother here as an example. He's 35, and has only owned a car since he was 33. Prior to that he's never needed to own a car living in either London or Melbourne. In contrast, I'm 39 and I've owned or leased a car since I was 21. 4 years age difference, different places lived in (I've never lived in a big city since I was at uni for my undergraduate degree) and I think that's part of the approach to car ownership now. He wanted to go somewhere? He hired a car, or he'd fly there and then hire a car, or, in the UK, he'd get the train and then get picked up.

We've going to have an increasing urbanisation of the population - Outside of the Greater Capital City Statistical Areas there only lives 32.99% (2016) of the population (Australian Bureau of Statistics, 2018) and that area is 99.28% of Australia’s land mass - and therefore, they don't need their own cars as much if there are viable substitute modes of transport (train, share cars or bikes, buses, trams, light rail, ride sharing) that mean they don't need to incur the cost of their own vehicle.

If they can get the induction charging to work (which is getting close) (https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/electric/what-is-electric-car-wireless-charging-wevc-and-how-does-it-work-/) imagine being able to pick up a share car (GoGet or similar) that is parked over a charging pad, drive it to where you need to get to, park it on the nearest induction pad and off you go. Something like this (https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/21/18276541/norway-oslo-wireless-charging-electric-taxis-car-zero-emissions-induction) is already happening with some transport options like taxis. That'll solve most city driving requirements as the normal city distance is under 50km IIRC - the power used to cover that in terms of CO2 generation in an EV will be a fraction of what it would be in an IC vehicle, especially given the gridlock that most capital city roads are.

On the other hand, and I seem to keep saying this, I think that agricultural applications will also go to EVs - they have the benefit of huge amount of torque (why are so many trains diesel electric? why are the big mine dump trucks diesel electric?_ that can be applied directly to the wheel that needs it with individual motors. They also have the space for solar set ups. Now imagine a drop in and drop out battery pack in the autonomous ag machine (hey, most tractors now have the gear to get to at least to Level 3, nearly level 4 of the SAE Autonomous vehicle grades and some mine trucks are running at Level 5)

(https://www.autonomousvehicletech.com/ext/resources/AVT/2018/12-December/20181214-SAE-image_web.jpg?1544813712)

So what does that mean for us?
Well, for me, probably SFA. I live in regional NSW, we don't have the mature car sharing options, we don't even have Uber (and it's nearly 40,000 population LGA). Nor do we have any charging stations in town... but come school holidays, we do get plenty of Teslas in town, so they obviously charge up somewhere.

Now, if a Tesla has a range of 450km (give or take - that's approaching maximum range), realistically that's about 5hrs driving. Driving safely, you'd have had a break after 2 to 3hrs for a feed and you might have been able to lob 30-45mins charge in then, so you're then good for perhaps a total of 650km... so all of a sudden that 30minute break is extending your range by 400km each time.

OK, it'll change how you camp, so that might be a bit of a culture shock for some people... I'm sure there'll be solutions worked out by National Sparks and Wildfires at some of their visitor locations (Dorrigo springs to mind, as does the QLD NP around Giraween and the Pyramid rocks).

In response to the comment of how are we going to have enough electricity for everyone? Well, all we need to do is use less of it to begin with, and perhaps be more selective in how we use it.

Just some bits to think about...

Lastly, manufacturers will change to ensure their survivability. I remember talking to someone who said 10 years ago their typical customer was a 50 year old who enjoyed activity x; now their typical customer is a 60 year old who enjoys activity x... ie it hasn't changed, and in another 20 years will have died off... leaving them no customer... They're looking at diversifying to ensure they remain competitive and in existence.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: KeithB on May 02, 2019, 11:17:08 PM
Keith
Your 2005 forecast was not out by much.
Any change of picking the lotto numbers for me.

Oopos. Typo now fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.

Paddler Ed, that is a most informative post. Thank you for that.

I have been looking at a string on another forum where electric cars have come up. The idiot fringe has come out of the woodwork in numbers, raving about Bill Shorten and the disaster that will befall us if Labor is elected.  The level if technical illiteracy in this area is nothing short of alarming.

Three days ago, we put in a 10Kw solar setup with a 13.2 KWH Tesla battery. Yesterday we did 95% of our own power on a cloudy day with my wife vacuuming, pool pump for 3 hours, a load of washing and a dishwasher in the mix. Finished up at zero charge at midnight. Today has been overcast with a patch of sun around mid day. Have drawn just 1.4KWH from the mains for brekky and the battery is now at 30 per cent. The next exercise is to go with LED bulbs and chase down any electrical thieves in the house. The heated tower rail in the bathroom comes to mind.

Keith


Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: JusyApples on May 03, 2019, 06:22:59 AM
Oopos. Typo now fixed. Thanks for pointing that out.

Paddler Ed, that is a most informative post. Thank you for that.

I have been looking at a string on another forum where electric cars have come up. The idiot fringe has come out of the woodwork in numbers, raving about Bill Shorten and the disaster that will befall us if Labor is elected.  The level if technical illiteracy in this area is nothing short of alarming.

Three days ago, we put in a 10Kw solar setup with a 13.2 KWH Tesla battery. Yesterday we did 95% of our own power on a cloudy day with my wife vacuuming, pool pump for 3 hours, a load of washing and a dishwasher in the mix. Finished up at zero charge at midnight. Today has been overcast with a patch of sun around mid day. Have drawn just 1.4KWH from the mains for brekky and the battery is now at 30 per cent. The next exercise is to go with LED bulbs and chase down any electrical thieves in the house. The heated tower rail in the bathroom comes to mind.

Keith
Guess what Keith not everyone is in your circumstance and can afford solar systems. Some people live in apartments or townhouses and have off street parking. Are people going to run extension cords out onto the street?
Or in my circumstance where we had some quotes for solar, due to our neighbour having a two story house and our back neighbour having a tree it’s not viable for us to have solar.
Just because you have it doesn’t mean millions of other households can.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 03, 2019, 06:50:09 AM
I think most people make a much bigger deal out of charging than it really is, with a 500ish km range, you will just charge at home 95% of the time, when you are doing a greater than that trip is when you will use a super charger.
I have seen some videos on YouTube of people trecking across the US in there Tesla, the Car guides them to the Supercharger in the town, they hook it up and tell them how long it will take them to get enough charge to get to the next stop, they go off to get a feed and the Car messages them in half an hr  (or less for a part charge) or so to let them know it's good to go.

Sure we don't have the charging infrastructure in place here yet that they do, but Tesla probably already has more chargers than you realise and that number will only grow.

The problem is we live in a society that doesn't wait for anything........waiting around for a car to charge is a big turn off for most.
I'm sure they'll have a better idea soon, but having to physically plug a car into a charger every night at home is also a major turnoff ..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Spada on May 03, 2019, 07:14:05 AM
10 years or so ago we all camped with gas lanterns and ice filled esky's.................just saying  >:D

it's amazing what industries can achieve the the marked shows there is money to be made.

I suspect over the next decade or so we will see huge advances in electric vehicle technology. I'm currently working on a project at work mapping delivery routes for several hundred electric delivery vehicles that are coming over the next 12 months, and the bit I'm working on is only 1 small piece of a significantly larger project that is being done with future needs in mind.

I can see a significant cultural shift occurring in metropolitan areas over the next decade or so, but not so much in rural/remote areas? As for the loss in petrol excise, I've no doubt the government (of whatever persuasion) will find a way to introduce a distance based road tax (my tinfoil hat thinks your smart car will probably be reporting your travelled distance all by itself?)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: KeithB on May 03, 2019, 07:28:36 AM
Guess what Keith not everyone is in your circumstance and can afford solar systems. Some people live in apartments or townhouses and have off street parking. Are people going to run extension cords out onto the street?
Or in my circumstance where we had some quotes for solar, due to our neighbour having a two story house and our back neighbour having a tree it’s not viable for us to have solar.
Just because you have it doesn’t mean millions of other households can.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My guess is that there will be plenty of charging stations and no need to run a lead into the street. The Clean Energy Council says that there are already 2 million households with solar panels. But there are only 33,000 with batteries and with 70,000 tipped by the end of the year. There is currently a 4 week wait to get a Tesla battery. But, as JusyApples says, not everyone can go solar.
We did the solar battery thing because it gives a return on investment of 11% which you can't get investing anywhere else.

Australians have always been early adopters of technology and I bet EVs will be no different, once they become affordable and the charging infrastructure starts to look viable.

Keith
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 08:02:02 AM
Apparently my earlier comments are not correct.

I see the man that almost singlehandedly destroyed a whole car manufacturing industry in this country has now said if the global industry wants to force us towards EVs then he’ll just start up our own vehicle manufacturing industry over here.

Awesome plan!
Now, just remind me. Where did we put all of those 100s of skilled workers again.... ???
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: chester ver2.0 on May 03, 2019, 08:13:54 AM
The problem is we live in a society that doesn't wait for anything........waiting around for a car to charge is a big turn off for most.
I'm sure they'll have a better idea soon, but having to physically plug a car into a charger every night at home is also a major turnoff ..

Really i would much rather do that than have to go to a smelly servo slip ass over tit on some oil and then have my hands smell like diesel for the next hour as the pump handle is that dirty.

Honestly the way the tech is going i will bet within 5 years there will be a 2 minute super charge station that will get you say 200k till you can get the thing fully charged

I personally love the concept and it goes with my eventual off grid lifestyle of solar on the roof at home going into a tesla battery or similar which would be charging my EV in the garage and powering the house

If the Rivan ute comes out with a reasonable sticker price i would buy one tomorrow
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 03, 2019, 08:16:44 AM
All this yapping on about electric cars will do this's and wont do thats, recharge times, etc etc cars too expensive 50% by 2030 ..
Found theres plenty of choices around and BLOODY CHEAP too, you can even easily afford a Bugatti Veyeron or Lambo ..
 The Chinks have been flooding the fleabay / Amazombie etc markets with Solar rechargability ready Electric recyclable knock offs that are way ahead of the major brands to pick up the slack from the usual big auto makers ....   $199 to just over a $1000 and some come with spare battery packs ..
Hell they even did a knock off of Petes Jeep, talk about offering "  personalized customability "  Just so as you wont miss your old fossil fuel guzzler when you switch over .  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 03, 2019, 08:35:02 AM
All this yapping on about electric cars will do this's and wont do thats, recharge times, etc etc cars too expensive 50% by 2030 ..
Found theres plenty of choices around and BLOODY CHEAP too, you can even easily afford a Bugatti Veyeron or Lambo ..
 The Chinks have been flooding the fleabay / Amazombie etc markets with Solar rechargability ready Electric recyclable knock offs that are way ahead of the major brands to pick up the slack from the usual big auto makers ....   $199 to just over a $1000 and some come with spare battery packs ..
Hell they even did a knock off of Petes Jeep, talk about offering "  personalized customability "  Just so as you wont miss your old fossil fuel guzzler when you switch over .  ;D ;D ;D

 :cup:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pottsy on May 03, 2019, 08:43:41 AM
I'm not sure if this needs to be in the electrical section, but will you have to take your car to an electrician for servicing. :D
Can you imagine myswag electrical section discussing fast chargers etc, break out the popcorn, sit back and watch the s....t fly.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Paddler Ed on May 03, 2019, 09:01:36 AM
I'm not sure if this needs to be in the electrical section, but will you have to take your car to an electrician for servicing. :D
Can you imagine myswag electrical section discussing fast chargers etc, break out the popcorn, sit back and watch the s....t fly.

Know someone who works for a BMW dealership in the UK, and he's the one who does the EVs. 240V by all accounts is tame in comparison, you're dealing with much higher volts and amps IIRC. Workshops will need to be bigger for clear zones, workshop times will be longer whilst you wait for things to downcharge, never mind the training needed to work on them.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 03, 2019, 09:28:20 AM
Know someone who works for a BMW dealership in the UK, and he's the one who does the EVs. 240V by all accounts is tame in comparison, you're dealing with much higher volts and amps IIRC. Workshops will need to be bigger for clear zones, workshop times will be longer whilst you wait for things to downcharge, never mind the training needed to work on them.

The other issue will be spare parts.  Tesla have a bad reputation for supplying and distributing parts.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 03, 2019, 09:33:19 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eXzkms_Ez0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eXzkms_Ez0)        ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on May 03, 2019, 09:46:28 AM
Quote from: chester ver2.0
Really i would much rather do that than have to go to a smelly servo slip ass over tit on some oil and then have my hands smell like diesel for the next hour as the pump handle is that dirty
How often does that happen these days? About never? or if your worried, pair of leather gloves like old bloke in the club does.

once trendy cars became diesel and ladies started drivin em, things changed.... If you go the truck section of a servo, things are different. the servo near work just had their 12 pumps upgraded to all have all 4 fuels (ulp, 95, 98) and diesel..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 10:08:40 AM
How often does that happen these days? About never?
Every time.
And absolutly guanteed to happen if you're wearing a crisp white business shirt on your way to a very important meeting.
Nothing like shaking hands with decision makers to discuss new clean technologies when you smell like an oil rig....  >:(


Edit;
Not actually slipping over, but getting diesel all over your hands and splashed on your shirt sleeves..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 03, 2019, 10:14:41 AM
Every time.
And absolutly guanteed to happen if you're wearing a crisp white business shirt on your way to a very important meeting.
Nothing like shaking hands with decision makers to discuss new clean technologies when you smell like an oil rig....  >:(


Edit;
Not actually slipping over, but getting diesel all over your hands and splashed on your shirt sleeves..

Every servo I have been to has a water tap/bucket and towel for washing drying hands.  If its a common occurrence carry a small liquid soap bottle in door trim...works for me...
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: macca on May 03, 2019, 10:24:20 AM
Every time.
And absolutly guanteed to happen if you're wearing a crisp white business shirt on your way to a very important meeting.
Nothing like shaking hands with decision makers to discuss new clean technologies when you smell like an oil rig....  >:(


Edit;
Not actually slipping over, but getting diesel all over your hands and splashed on your shirt sleeves..
You're supposed to put the nozzle into the fuel tank filler then pull the trigger

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Hoyks on May 03, 2019, 10:25:33 AM
The other issue will be spare parts.  Tesla have a bad reputation for supplying and distributing parts.

Yes, they only supply them to be fitted by approved repairers. Anything goes phut and you have to take it to a dealer or try and repair it yourself.
This guy wouldn't take no for an answer and has basically a Tesla wreckers yard in his basement.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfV0_wbjG8KJADuZT2ct4SA)

Who Killed The Electric Car is also worth a watch, their arguement was that the car manufacturers nobbled the electric car because all that wears out are brakes and wheel bearing (and with regen braking, brakes don't get used as much). So your dealer sell a a car into a competitive market and gets a low margin, then gets stuff all from the workshop as the customer doesn't need to come back for adjustments and fluid changes every 6 months as there are hardly any moving parts or lubricants required.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3OnYjP4FTk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3OnYjP4FTk)

Personally, I'd love an electric car and have toyed with the idea of buying a Sierra with a clapped out motor and filling the space between the chassis rails with cells and a nice little 3 phase motor directly driving the gearbox. I'm 26km from work, so a fully charged battery will see me being able to drive that for 3 days with no extra electrons being added.

If running into the city, then I'm probably going for an appointment/meeting/shopping trip and will be stopped at the other end for at least an hour, so plugging it in to ensure I have more than enough power to get home isn't really an issue. Right now its finding a place to plug it in.

I'd keep the ute for my weekend or longer trips and save putting 300km/week on it for nothing and stockpile the fuel and $$. I really don't need a 3.2L diesel and 2000kg of steel and aluminium to shift just me to work, but can't really afford to own and maintain another vehicle.

Oil is running out, we can all agree on that, so finding ways to extend what we have is a good idea in my opinion.

The only way it is going to happen is to make it economically viable for companies to experiment and improve on what they have.

Petrol cars were unreliable rubbish when they first came out and you had to scrounge around to find fuel as there were no servos. But there were $$ in it, so fuel service stations sprang up to fix the crappy cars and manufactures worked to improve them to a point where they said it was good enough to have a massive inefficient poorly handling barge that would kill you in a crash, then governments said try harder and massive leaps in efficiency took place.
Same with crash-worthness and occupant safety, but only because it was legislated and made economically viable to do so.

No one is going to prise your Hilux keys from your cold, dead fingers, just remove some of the current impediments to electric vehicle ownership so people are more interested in getting one.
 
With all the electric cars and people using their own power to charge them, then I can see the fuel excise and rego going up to compensate. A bit like diesels in NZ where you have to estimate your annual km when you pay your rego.

I have plenty of roof for panels and a chainsaw to deal with any pesky shade trees, so I have no issue with solar. I'm even happy to take your tax $$ to subsidise my new batteries. I will be generous though, and feed some of the power back at peak demand times and get more than the pathetic 17c/kW they are paying me for it now.


Now, if they invented a battery where you pulled up at a servo, drain out the electrolyte and refilled it with freshly charged fluid or got the hydrogen fuel cell up and running, then watch the oil companies get onboard. Both would keep you tethered to the existing infrastructure and the fuel companies balance sheets.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: chester ver2.0 on May 03, 2019, 10:26:48 AM
Every servo I have been to has a water tap/bucket and towel for washing drying hands.  If its a common occurrence carry a small liquid soap bottle in door trim...works for me...

Christ where do you live every servo i go to the paper towel has been empty since 1979, the water bucket is that filthy it should be classified as its own ecosystem and some bugger has taken the top off the tap so you cant turn it on
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 03, 2019, 10:50:10 AM
The problem is we live in a society that doesn't wait for anything........waiting around for a car to charge is a big turn off for most.
I'm sure they'll have a better idea soon, but having to physically plug a car into a charger every night at home is also a major turnoff ..

I think you are kind of grasping at straws, they aren't really "waiting" it's charging whilst they have a break, unless you are driving for hours and hours and hours without a break, it just a matter of coinciding a break with the charging. Plugging in a charger every night will still probably be a reasonable time saving over having to fill up at a petrol station so I don't really think it's an issue at all, more of a perception vs reality thing.
I am not trying to paint it as perfect, as it isn't, but not as bad as people try to make out, and it will only improve from here.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 03, 2019, 10:54:10 AM
I dont care, I'd still have to have something like this fitted to my Rainbow Unicorn Electric go buggy, Just because    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9XAC-BvUyo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9XAC-BvUyo)    ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 03, 2019, 11:07:02 AM
Ownership of cars is falling amongst those who live in the cities - not just in Australia, but worldwide in the EU, USA and other "developed" countries:.........
I think this is actually the more interesting point, mass adoption of EV's I think is a given, it's that in 20yrs whether we will own them, or drive them that is the more interesting point. Tesla apparently has put in their contract for people leasing their new model 3's in the US that they can't buy them out at the end of the lease as they plan to use them in their autonomous fleet after the lease period. I don't see the ICE going anywhere anytime soon, but expect to see rapid development in the EV and Automation sectors.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Steffo1 on May 03, 2019, 11:09:04 AM
My take on the whole thing is that nothing concrete will happen until the big oil companies work out a way (if they haven't got a blueprint already) to gain the majority of supply to EVs, as they have with liquid and gas fuel.

When they have the means, they will then give covert permission to our government to "Implement Policies" on EVs that will make all parties smell like roses.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 11:30:06 AM
Personally, I'd love an electric car and have toyed with the idea of buying a Sierra with a clapped out motor and filling the space between the chassis rails with cells and a nice little 3 phase motor directly driving the gearbox. I'm 26km from work, so a fully charged battery will see me being able to drive that for 3 days with no extra electrons being added.

If running into the city, then I'm probably going for an appointment/meeting/shopping trip and will be stopped at the other end for at least an hour, so plugging it in to ensure I have more than enough power to get home isn't really an issue. Right now its finding a place to plug it in.

I'd keep the ute for my weekend or longer trips and save putting 300km/week on it for nothing and stockpile the fuel and $$. I really don't need a 3.2L diesel and 2000kg of steel and aluminium to shift just me to work, but can't really afford to own and maintain another vehicle.

Something a bit like this one?
https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?threads/fuzzychops-lj50-suzuki-trip-across-the-simmo.37585/ (https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?threads/fuzzychops-lj50-suzuki-trip-across-the-simmo.37585/)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on May 03, 2019, 11:31:17 AM
I think most people make a much bigger deal out of charging than it really is, with a 500ish km range, you will just charge at home 95% of the time, when you are doing a greater than that trip is when you will use a super charger.
I have seen some videos on YouTube of people trecking across the US in there Tesla, the Car guides them to the Supercharger in the town, they hook it up and tell them how long it will take them to get enough charge to get to the next stop, they go off to get a feed and the Car messages them in half an hr  (or less for a part charge) or so to let them know it's good to go.

Sure we don't have the charging infrastructure in place here yet that they do, but Tesla probably already has more chargers than you realise and that number will only grow.

Works okay if your EV takes the rapid charge, not all do, the others still take the slow charge.  Noticed in the link I put above a lot of EV charges are going in accommodation spots, motels etc to take the overnight charge. 
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 11:39:08 AM
My take on the whole thing is that nothing concrete will happen until the big oil companies work out a way (if they haven't got a blueprint already) to gain the majority of supply to EVs, as they have with liquid and gas fuel.

That horse has well and truly bolted.....

Quote
Shell aims to make electricity a significant part of its business. Shell’s New Energies business is seeking to leverage the company’s strengths in fast-growing and commercial parts of the energy industry and could spend on average between $1-2 billion a year until 2020 on commercial opportunities.
https://www.shell.com.au/media/2019-media-releases/smart-energy-storage-systems.html (https://www.shell.com.au/media/2019-media-releases/smart-energy-storage-systems.html)

Quote
BP has announced a $20 million investment in ultra-fast-charging battery start-up company StoreDot, which is developing technology that could eventually see electric vehicle (EV) charging times fall to five minutes.
https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/news-and-insights/bp-magazine/bp-invests-in-ultra-fast-charging-battery-company-storedot.html (https://www.bp.com/en/global/corporate/news-and-insights/bp-magazine/bp-invests-in-ultra-fast-charging-battery-company-storedot.html)

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Steffo1 on May 03, 2019, 11:43:15 AM
This was in Paris in 2015. I have no idea about how or who pays what. Credit card, perhaps? It is just in a side street.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 03, 2019, 11:44:35 AM
Works okay if your EV takes the rapid charge, not all do, the others still take the slow charge.  Noticed in the link I put above a lot of EV charges are going in accommodation spots, motels etc to take the overnight charge. 

True, but most being sold now do, I think it will be fairly standard going forward. It's mainly the early iterations that don't AFAIK
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on May 03, 2019, 11:46:46 AM
Quote from: Steffo1
This was in Paris in 2015. I have no idea about how or who pays what. Credit card, perhaps? It is just in a side street.
but who wants to drive some hideous Shitheap like that? Roomy for you and your jumper. So thats your city car, then you need your family car, then you need your towing car, and your sports car... sounding good at rego time.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Hoyks on May 03, 2019, 12:06:23 PM
Something a bit like this one?
A '97/98 model with the coils as they rode so much better, but if I won lotto, you'd probably find a new Jimny motor on gumtree soon after.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 12:08:11 PM
A '97/98 model with the coils as they rode so much better, but if I won lotto, you'd probably find a new Jimny motor on gumtree soon after.
But a 1999 model Jimny and give me the EFI engine for my Sierra. ;)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Hoyks on May 03, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
But a 1999 model Jimny and give me the EFI engine for my Sierra. ;)

If I win lotto, you can have the 2018 efi for your sierra.


Works okay if your EV takes the rapid charge, not all do, the others still take the slow charge.  Noticed in the link I put above a lot of EV charges are going in accommodation spots, motels etc to take the overnight charge.
Pretty sure with this developing technology that some bits have been future proofed to some extent, in that when you plug in the charging lead, the ECU and charger will do a bit of electronic secret handshake trickery and the battery cells will be provided with the optimum power they need to charge and be within the bounds of what the charger can supply and what the battery management system will accept.

Wilbur and Orville didn't duck over to London in January 1904, these things take time to develop and infrastructure to adapt.


I really can't understand the negativity/visceral hate for EV's, if you don't want one or you don't think it will suit your lifestyle, don't get one.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on May 03, 2019, 01:25:50 PM
but who wants to drive some hideous Shitheap like that? Roomy for you and your jumper. So thats your city car, then you need your family car, then you need your towing car, and your sports car... sounding good at rego time.

Can always have this

https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/ (https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5foN9lsOGQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5foN9lsOGQ)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 03, 2019, 02:42:01 PM
May not have top worry about it for long, the Russians are saying a hit in 2036 and the Yanks are talking a very close flyby in 2029,
https://www.nasa.gov/feature/scientists-planning-now-for-asteroid-flyby-a-decade-away (https://www.nasa.gov/feature/scientists-planning-now-for-asteroid-flyby-a-decade-away)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on May 03, 2019, 03:10:58 PM
May not have top worry about it for long, the Russians are saying a hit in 2036 and the Yanks are talking a very close flyby in 2039,
https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/asteroids/news/asteroid20130110.html (https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/asteroids/news/asteroid20130110.html)
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( its missing us :'(
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Traveller on May 03, 2019, 03:20:17 PM
Here is another man's opinion on this issue as well.

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/pickeringpost/10000000_2620908001312566_9040462958240691743_n.mp4 (https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/pickeringpost/10000000_2620908001312566_9040462958240691743_n.mp4)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 03, 2019, 07:49:55 PM
Every time.
And absolutly guanteed to happen if you're wearing a crisp white business shirt on your way to a very important meeting.
Nothing like shaking hands with decision makers to discuss new clean technologies when you smell like an oil rig....  >:(


Edit;
Not actually slipping over, but getting diesel all over your hands and splashed on your shirt sleeves..

Never happened in the last 10yrs for me.....oh wait.....a bit of diesel spilled onto the ground once...same as the petrol did once.....but nothing on me ....but then again, I can eat spagetti bol without spilling it on the front of my shirt ( sober of course )..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: sharkcaver on May 03, 2019, 08:44:10 PM
I really can't understand the negativity/visceral hate for EV's, if you don't want one or you don't think it will suit your lifestyle, don't get one.
Cause I cant cross the Anne Beadell Highway with a leccy vehicle, for one reason.

City bound, leccy vehicles may work, rural/remote forget it.

Rest assured, there wont be one in my garage anytime soon, so you can breathe easy.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on May 03, 2019, 09:08:01 PM
Cause I cant cross the Anne Beadell Highway with a leccy vehicle, for one reason.

City bound, leccy vehicles may work, rural/remote forget it.

Rest assured, there wont be one in my garage anytime soon, so you can breathe easy.

Surprising where some charging stations are

https://www.drivezero.com.au/electric-car-charging-stations/#all (https://www.drivezero.com.au/electric-car-charging-stations/#all)
Title: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 09:47:04 PM
Never happened in the last 10yrs for me.....oh wait.....a bit of diesel spilled onto the ground once...same as the petrol did once.....but nothing on me ....but then again, I can eat spagetti bol without spilling it on the front of my shirt ( sober of course )..
Let me guess, your high flow pumps actually have high flow as well... ???

Our local diesel pumps have had about 3 or 4 sets of nozzles fitted over the last 18 months.
I jokingly asked the Veeder-root guy if he was fixing the leak or making it pump properly when he was there a couple of months ago. He laughed and said ‘one or the other I guess’. Turns out he couldn’t do either.....

I’d happily take a photo of the mountain of kitty litter on the floor and the empty paper dispenser on the post beside the diesel pump, but I don’t want the cranky old lady behind the counter yelling at my for using my phone at the bowsers... ;)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 03, 2019, 09:56:51 PM
Let me guess, your high flow pumps actually have high flow as well... ???

Our local diesel pumps have had about 3 or 4 sets of nozzles fitted over the last 18 months.
I jokingly asked the Veeder-root guy if he was fixing the leak or making it pump properly when he was there a couple of months ago. He laughed and said ‘one or the other I guess’. Turns out he couldn’t do either.....

I’d happily take a photo of the mountain of kitty litter on the floor and the empty paper dispenser on the post beside the diesel pump, but I don’t want the cranky old lady behind the counter yelling at my for using my phone at the bowsers... ;)

Locally I fill up at maybe 3 different locations...when out camping up to 2hrs away from home....never had a problem filling up...either on normal or high flow.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 03, 2019, 10:13:00 PM
Locally I fill up at maybe 3 different locations...when out camping up to 2hrs away from home....never had a problem filling up...either on normal or high flow.
$1.48 at the pump 1km from home.
Next closest pump to me is $1.53 and that’s 13km away.

However, if we had electric cars none of this would matter anyway..... ;)
Quote
Earlier this year, the Queensland government completed its electric car "super highway" which allows electric car owners to drive all the way from Cairns to Coolangatta.

Electric charging at the stations will be free for the first 12 months before fees are introduced, bringing the cost to charge an average car to about $45.

 https://sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/electric-vehicle-charging-network-now-spans-almost/3433971/ (https://sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/electric-vehicle-charging-network-now-spans-almost/3433971/)

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 03, 2019, 10:25:55 PM
I am one off those bragging rights people because I have order and paid for my Model 3
I will keep my Landcruiser 76 because the Government will not be able to pay for all the Non-Federal highways maintenance since everyone will be driving electrical cars and no one will be paying the fuel levy for the road maintenance. Back roads will be dirt roads so you will need a 4wd to travel outside the cities or on the secondary road between cities.

OK, not really true but who will pay for the road maintenance is if no-one is buying fuel?

It amaze me when I visits the family is South Africa every 4 years how the potholes are getting bigger and the secondary roads turn to ‘tracks’. The highways are fine.

If you can afford it and that's how you would like to spend your $$$ then half your luck, have they got Australian pricing for them yet as I haven't seen a local price for them. Which is the elephant in the room that none of the knockers has bought up yet, the Model S is about $125-200K depending on options, as I mentioned, I haven't seen exactly what the Model 3 will go for here but should be within reach of a lot more, it still wont be "cheap" though.

In regards to road maintenance, they will just swap to a Km travelled tax instead, but they will wait until after there has been mass takeup of them to do that. As someone else said, they will probably make the cars self report.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Alan Loy on May 04, 2019, 08:49:06 AM
seems the price of electric cars is falling with the Hyundai IONIQ  at around $50K.  Still not cheap but better.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on May 04, 2019, 11:24:06 AM
but then again, I can eat spagetti bol without spilling it on the front of my shirt ( sober of course )..

Now you're just boasting, Gronk! ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 04, 2019, 02:43:55 PM
tesla model 3 should be around $50k to $70k
Elon said USA price plus exchange rate, AU import tax and possibly luxury car tax

So, I have budget for $70k
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: JusyApples on May 04, 2019, 06:23:26 PM
$1.48 at the pump 1km from home.
Next closest pump to me is $1.53 and that’s 13km away.

However, if we had electric cars none of this would matter anyway..... ;)
 https://sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/electric-vehicle-charging-network-now-spans-almost/3433971/ (https://sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/electric-vehicle-charging-network-now-spans-almost/3433971/)
They will probably charge you depending on their electricity rate


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 04, 2019, 06:39:14 PM
seems the price of electric cars is falling with the Hyundai IONIQ  at around $50K.  Still not cheap but better.

Still twice the price of the similar petrol model !! That's a lot of money for an electric motor and a battery bank !!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 04, 2019, 06:42:37 PM
Now you're just boasting, Gronk! ;D

OK, 90% of the time !!  ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: GeoffA on May 04, 2019, 06:54:10 PM
Still twice the price of the similar petrol model !!.........

....and they're coal-powered....
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 04, 2019, 07:53:58 PM
....and they're coal-powered....

Yep.....if you want to recharge your elect car at 1am of a night....long after your powerwall has run out of puff, and still 7hrs until the solar panels recharge the powerwall, you are stuck with a recharge from the grid.....coal fired !!  :cup:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 04, 2019, 08:46:48 PM
Still twice the price of the similar petrol model !! That's a lot of money for an electric motor and a battery bank !!

That is somewhat offset against lower maintenance costs and it being a lot cheaper to run an EV (approx 3-4 times cheaper). Of course part of the reason for that is the lack of excise on the electricity and that may change in the future. Doesn't yet make them the better financial option, but levels it bit.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Hoyks on May 04, 2019, 10:22:45 PM
Maybe coal powered for now, but things don't stay the same for ever and you need an adjustment period.

(https://scontent.fbne6-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.2147-6/c0.61.540.282a/p540x282/59691502_346483696006669_8636864505642483712_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ht=scontent.fbne6-1.fna&oh=3cf32936f4d4825656d196bf6c1e03ec&oe=5D750801)

https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/EF/Areas/Electricity-grids-and-systems/Economic-modelling/efutures?fbclid=IwAR1FGi_w6_w7E4ehqrgkPouiZkLSiHxCk8jUiB_hu7a3ik3xtMzWkp9Exh8 (https://www.csiro.au/en/Research/EF/Areas/Electricity-grids-and-systems/Economic-modelling/efutures?fbclid=IwAR1FGi_w6_w7E4ehqrgkPouiZkLSiHxCk8jUiB_hu7a3ik3xtMzWkp9Exh8)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: GeoffA on May 04, 2019, 10:31:05 PM
Still around 50% carbon-based at 2050.....
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 04, 2019, 11:36:06 PM
Raw material dug out of ground by : Fossil fueled machines / transported by : Fossil fueled machines / Processed into parts & assembled by : Coal powered electric machines / Transported around the world for sale by : Fossil fueled machines .............  Green machines  Powered by electricity generated by coal  ............   ::);D ;D
 But But But I'm doing my bit to Save the planet they Bleat  :angel:       ;D ;D  ::)  ;D ;D ;D 
Then BBBrrrrrrrTTTTTTTT  Mother Nature has a fanny fart from a VOLCANO and  PPFFFFTTTTTTT The Green Rainbow Unicorn emissions savings " Just went awayyyy for another few hundred years "  Ohhh **** Just when they were doing so well   :'(
Only 50 or 60 Mother Nature fanny farts happening on earth each year and about 28 currently having a bit of a blow  ;D go greenies go  :cup:

I'd build one of these for a bit of fun though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kJOXr3HzA&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kJOXr3HzA&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: KeithB on May 04, 2019, 11:58:45 PM
Right now, only 27% of US electricity comes from coal. Natural gas has picked up the slack. But the pollies have made such a stuff up of the gas market that we are unlikely to follow suit. Still a fossil fuel for sure, but a lot less greenhouse gas from natural gas.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3 (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3)
Keith
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on May 05, 2019, 10:35:08 AM
I'd build one of these for a bit of fun though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kJOXr3HzA&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6kJOXr3HzA&feature=youtu.be)

While not wheelchair bound my bride has mobility issues and does find herself restricted a lot.  For example there is no way she could attempt the hike in this video  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ela3bPtookg. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ela3bPtookg.)  What he has done with the ebikes is great.  Since first seeing the video ages ago we have been looking at the ebikes and she has had a test ride on one and amazed how easy it was.  Just a case of finding the right one. 
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 05, 2019, 06:12:52 PM
Right now, only 27% of US electricity comes from coal. Natural gas has picked up the slack. But the pollies have made such a stuff up of the gas market that we are unlikely to follow suit. Still a fossil fuel for sure, but a lot less greenhouse gas from natural gas.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3 (https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3)
Keith

Yes, but looking at the figures, between coal and gas...60%......nuclear 19% and total renewables only 17%.

We can't achieve those figures because we have no nuclear and we have sold most of OUR gas to the Chinese. So we are left with coal and a small amount of renewables.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: rockrat on May 05, 2019, 06:52:25 PM
Watched a bit of Formula E today. They sound like a bunch of cats in heat! Hopefully road cars of the future will be much more quiet.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on May 06, 2019, 12:23:53 AM
Electric cars are quiet, it's a wonder we don't have more Pedestrians knocked over by them.
I remember someone trying to Legislate electric cars "had to make a noise whilst in motion, enabling Pedestrians to be aware of their presence".
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 06, 2019, 07:20:26 AM
You need to add a Roo whistle but for people
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on May 06, 2019, 08:48:42 AM
You need to add a Roo whistle but for people
would they go fast enough to make noise? certainly wouldnt in town :(
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 06, 2019, 09:12:03 AM
Electric cars are quiet, it's a wonder we don't have more Pedestrians knocked over by them.
I remember someone trying to Legislate electric cars "had to make a noise whilst in motion, enabling Pedestrians to be aware of their presence".

Many councils have resorted to putting glued on mats with raised surfaces on path intersections .  This is because the half wit pedestrians are so transfixed by the photo of a cup of coffee on their mobile phone they forget to stop at the intersection and walk into traffic.  Do we really need to save these people who cant even walk down a footpath safely?  The mind boggles.  Next step will be mini boom gates at all pathway intersections to save the people whose life revolves around a 5 inch screen...
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: #jonesy on May 06, 2019, 09:23:19 AM
Many councils have resorted to putting glued on mats with raised surfaces on path intersections .  This is because the half wit pedestrians are so transfixed by the photo of a cup of coffee on their mobile phone they forget to stop at the intersection and walk into traffic.  Do we really need to save these people who cant even walk down a footpath safely?  The mind boggles.  Next step will be mini boom gates at all pathway intersections to save the people whose life revolves around a 5 inch screen...
Too right dammed blind people with their white canes.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on May 06, 2019, 09:30:04 AM
Next step will be mini boom gates at all pathway intersections to save the people whose life revolves around a 5 inch screen...

They're already trying footpath level traffic lights ::)

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-30/sydney-phone-pedestrians-to-get-traffic-lights-in-pavement/7459152 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-05-30/sydney-phone-pedestrians-to-get-traffic-lights-in-pavement/7459152)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: JusyApples on May 06, 2019, 01:35:59 PM
Was just listening to a motoring expert/reviewer on the radio.
He’s just been driving the electric Hyundai Kona. It retails for $60k, double the price of the petrol version. The replacement battery is $36000.
Charging takes 9hrs

Problem is when you want to trade in or sell the battery will only have a certain amount of life left making the car virtually worthless. Current battery life is 8 years.

Also cobalt which is a material used in these batteries is more scarce then lithium in which the Japanese are trying to work out a why to recycle this product from old batteries.

Batteries also have a shelf life so how will these be kept for spare parts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on May 06, 2019, 01:44:57 PM
Was just listening to a motoring expert/reviewer on the radio.
He’s just been driving the electric Hyundai Kona. It retails for $60k, double the price of the petrol version. The replacement battery is $36000.
Charging takes 9hrs

Problem is when you want to trade in or sell the battery will only have a certain amount of life left making the car virtually worthless. Current battery life is 8 years.

Also cobalt which is a material used in these batteries is more scarce then lithium in which the Japanese are trying to work out a why to recycle this product from old batteries.

Batteries also have a shelf life so how will these be kept for spare parts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep replace on finite resource with numerous finite elements that leave toxic waste.  But they don't want to talk about that just that an electric car has no emissions with is good for the Planet. 
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: austastar on May 06, 2019, 02:49:55 PM
Has anyone got any ideas on how much it costs to recharge your car, is it meant to be cheaper than petrol/ diesel?
Hi,
   at the recent Agfest show, along with some modern EVs was a 2009 Subaru waggon that had been converted. Amongst the various notices on the vehicle was his running cost of $6/100km. It was not indicated which tarrif this was on, but our main tarrif is 28c/kWh which works out at 21.42 kWh/100km.
Off peak power is cheaper.
Cheers
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: doc evil on May 06, 2019, 02:51:01 PM
Yep replace on finite resource with numerous finite elements that leave toxic waste.  But they don't want to talk about that just that an electric car has no emissions with is good for the Planet.

Or the more pressing point that they need the coal fired electricity to manufacture and mine the renewable power solutions to create this "green" future..........
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: rags on May 06, 2019, 06:20:36 PM
Was just listening to a motoring expert/reviewer on the radio.
He’s just been driving the electric Hyundai Kona. It retails for $60k, double the price of the petrol version. The replacement battery is $36000.
Charging takes 9hrs

Problem is when you want to trade in or sell the battery will only have a certain amount of life left making the car virtually worthless. Current battery life is 8 years.

Also cobalt which is a material used in these batteries is more scarce then lithium in which the Japanese are trying to work out a why to recycle this product from old batteries.

Batteries also have a shelf life so how will these be kept for spare parts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for relaying that interview, I did hear parts of it but missed the guts of the interview as I was welding and grinding on my trailer using my coal powered welder and grinder.

Heard another interview recently with an electrician who is installing fast chargers into secure and Wilson car parks.He stated that the fast chargers need around 32 amps to work. To get 32 amps you need 3 phase power. Problem is to retro fit into existing units or houses , most premises will not have the capacity in the existing wiring.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Rumpig on May 06, 2019, 06:55:13 PM
.........He stated that the fast chargers need around 32 amps to work. To get 32 amps you need 3 phase power. Problem is to retro fit into existing units or houses , most premises will not have the capacity in the existing wiring.
question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood  grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 06, 2019, 07:12:01 PM
question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood  grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?

I think most people won't be fast charging when at home, firstly as they are likely to be there for a while, and secondly, fast charging requires a lot of power that most houses aren't equipped to provide. I suspect we will see more smart meters going forward that will at least allow surge pricing and/or hand over greater control to the network and they will flatten out the peaks by switching of charging when demand vs supply is the highest and back on when either demand drops or supply increases.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 06, 2019, 07:19:32 PM
question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood  grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?

If there was a lot of elect cars with the present base load capabilities then not a big problem.  But in the future, with MAYBE a lot of elect cars and a green push to close base load power stations, that increase in night time demand would certainly be a problem......unless by then someone has come up with a replacement for coal as a base load.....gas would be the obvious but we have sold most of our reserve outputs.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Rumpig on May 06, 2019, 07:24:18 PM
I think most people won't be fast charging when at home, firstly as they are likely to be there for a while, and secondly, fast charging requires a lot of power that most houses aren't equipped to provide. I suspect we will see more smart meters going forward that will at least allow surge pricing and/or hand over greater control to the network and they will flatten out the peaks by switching of charging when demand vs supply is the highest and back on when either demand drops or supply increases.
yeah I just realised what I asked as I was eating dinner just now, there's no need to fast charge over night ...so anyone know how much draw a slow charge does? Is it more or less then say an air con unit in a house for instance
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: austastar on May 06, 2019, 07:53:17 PM
Hi,
    There will be various options depending on existing wiring and the potential to retrofit.
I had a 20Amp dedicated powerpoint and several 15Amp powerpoints installed in the garage when we built in 1986. That was for welding, but it will be handy for charging.
I read somewhere that it will be possible in some cases to combine power points on different fused circuits, effectively doubling the Amperage available. Conditions will apply of course.
Cheers

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 06, 2019, 08:22:25 PM
yeah I just realised what I asked as I was eating dinner just now, there's no need to fast charge over night ...so anyone know how much draw a slow charge does? Is it more or less then say an air con unit in a house for instance

Is a little bit of a piece of string question, similar to an Aircon unit though would probably be a good answer.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Alan Loy on May 07, 2019, 08:37:08 AM
Hyundai Kona review https://www.caradvice.com.au/736825/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-review/ (https://www.caradvice.com.au/736825/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-review/)

You can also buy a Hyundai wall-box charger for $2000 fitted, running off your house’s AC power and stowed in your garage, with a maximum charging rate of 7.2kW. This means you can charge the car overnight with the supplied cable in about 9.5 hours from nil to full. Just don’t forget to plug in when you get home from the office.

Can someone convert this to charging from an ordinary 15 amp plug?

Battery Type   Lithium-ion Polymer  Voltage   356V  Battery System Capacity   64.0 kWh
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: #jonesy on May 07, 2019, 09:10:03 AM
7.2 kw = 7200 watts
7200w / 240v = 30 amps
(I think)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Alan Loy on May 07, 2019, 09:54:13 AM
so @ 15 amps about 20 hours (from empty)

Range is over 400 km so if your commute was 100km return then about 5 hours to top up
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 07, 2019, 10:53:47 AM
Quote
http://the Kona’s 450km real-world (WLTP-tested) driving range based on consumption of 14.3kWh per 100km

so it would need 28.6kWh of power to recharge from a 200km trip, with a 7.2kW charger it would take approximately 4 hrs to recharge. 

The big qualifier here is that as a battery approaches full charge, the charge rate decreases.

(https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/planning/img/EV-battery-rate-of-charge.jpg)

So if it was going from 45-90% it would be about 4hrs, but going from 55-100% would take longer.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: WilSurf on May 07, 2019, 11:43:20 AM
Our next car will most likely to be an electric car.
If only the prices were going down quicker.
My wife's car, now a hybrid, does the run around. That would be perfect for an electric car.
You do your school run and shopping and when coming home plug it in to charge from our solar system.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 07, 2019, 12:17:04 PM
All these charge rates are based on Lithium batteries.  Within the next decade newer batteries that will last twice as long, charge a lot quicker and cost a lot less will be available. Technology will just keep racing along.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Alan Loy on May 07, 2019, 03:49:26 PM
Seems to me if you had one you get into the habit of plugging it in every night.  This should solve the charging issues.

My preferred option is an EV for town and diesel 4Wd for touring.  The EVs are still a bit expensive for me however.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Rumpig on May 07, 2019, 06:07:40 PM
Seems to me if you had one you get into the habit of plugging it in every night.  This should solve the charging issues.

it's a pretty easy habit to get into, I used to do it daily with my 80ltr fridge in my 4wd after getting home from work before fitting a solar panel on my 4wd...the short drives I was doing to work wouldn't charge the second battery enough, so would plug it into 240V each night to save draining the battery.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: rags on May 07, 2019, 09:22:26 PM
it's a pretty easy habit to get into, I used to do it daily with my 80ltr fridge in my 4wd after getting home from work before fitting a solar panel on my 4wd...the short drives I was doing to work wouldn't charge the second battery enough, so would plug it into 240V each night to save draining the battery.

I do similar, but I always worry that I will forget to unplug before driving away so I ensure the plug is left outside the tailgate.

I can just picture the mother who puts the handbag on the car roof , puts kids into their seats in rush to get to school then yoga, who will forget to unplug the car.
Also how long can these car recharging leads be? As in most houses on 400sqm blocks the owners cannot get their car into the garage because of the junk in the garage. They will be lucky to get near the rechargers.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on May 08, 2019, 01:12:06 AM
"I can just picture the mother who puts the handbag on the car roof , puts kids into their seats in rush to get to school then yoga, who will forget to unplug the car."

They've already thought of that particularly with public charge stations whereby you carry and supply your own lead (Tesla have the lead on the 'bowser'). The car won't drive while the charge cable is connected and the screen will be staring you in the face telling you why it won't. When you think about it public chargers won't want their own leads being knocked around and requiring periodic replacement so they'll just give you the socket/s for your particular lead and plug although settling on the one standard is the issue-
https://insideevs.com/news/318042/dc-quick-charging-battle-just-beginning-chademo-vs-sae-combo-vs-tesla-supercharger/ (https://insideevs.com/news/318042/dc-quick-charging-battle-just-beginning-chademo-vs-sae-combo-vs-tesla-supercharger/)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2019/05/03/wireless-electric-vehicle-charging-puts-an-end-to-range-arms-race/#505d0aa650b9 (https://www.forbes.com/sites/edgarsten/2019/05/03/wireless-electric-vehicle-charging-puts-an-end-to-range-arms-race/#505d0aa650b9)
And then there's running out of 'gas'-
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/rac-develops-the-uks-first-lightweight-ev-charger/ (https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/news/motoring-news/rac-develops-the-uks-first-lightweight-ev-charger/)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on May 08, 2019, 02:18:36 AM
question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood  grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?
Convince them to hook it all up to the Solar input, it'd be the clean green way to do it, .......right?
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on May 08, 2019, 09:37:30 AM
Problem is owners will want to charge them at home at night and if they want them to charge overnight rather than around 24 hours from a standard power point they'll need to install a heavier charger for $2k to do that. Superchargers will be much higher than that but slow is best for expensive battery longevity and your car will warn you about that with too much supercharging. That makes paywave per km autonomous EV cars of the future problematic and why the introductory ones in the US are hybrids already.  EVs at current pricing don't stack up against hybrids and many ICE cars anyway and the minders must have tapped Battery Bill on the shoulder about that and why he's already backing off the fairy tale promise the closer he gets to the Lodge.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Symon on May 08, 2019, 12:55:29 PM
yeah I just realised what I asked as I was eating dinner just now, there's no need to fast charge over night ...so anyone know how much draw a slow charge does? Is it more or less then say an air con unit in a house for instance

A middle of the road Tesla Model 3 with a 62kWh battery pack will take 30 hours from 0% to full charge from a 10A GPO, or 20 hours from a 15A GPO.  You could put in a 32A single phase outlet that will get it down to 10 hours but you may run into issues if you have an older house, as the consumers mains for old houses is often only 6 sq mm.

If you have three phase available you can get it down to 5 or 6 hours.

I think most people will need local battery storage and a fast DC charger if they are routinely running their BEV down to a low state of charge.  The general idea is to charge up your home battery during the day via solar and then use that to charge the BEV overnight.  However if you do the maths on that you would need around a 20kW array so you would want a damn big roof.

question for those in the industry....will the neighbourhood  grids be able to handle a pile of houses in each street drawing all that power each night on the set up we now have, or will that somehow need upgrading to handle an increase in demand? Got me thinking the middle of Summer with all the household aircons running and add in all these cars charging, it may be an issue somehow?

A good question and it is difficult to answer as there are a lot of variables at play.  My initial response would be 'in general' the grid is not ready for BEV's, and it would be a very costly exercise to modify/upgrade it to fully manage the future demand.  However there is a number of mitigation strategies that can be used to even out the peaks and troughs, some include using the BEV plugged in to a home charger as a source of supply to prop up the grid during periods of high load.  This as well as other methods can delay the need for immediate upgrades to the network, but there will come a point where some money will need to be spent on upgrades.

I don't buy into the idea that the future is decentralised power generation and that the grid will no longer be required - although some in the renewables industry are pointing in that direction.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Symon on May 08, 2019, 01:16:11 PM
All these charge rates are based on Lithium batteries.  Within the next decade newer batteries that will last twice as long, charge a lot quicker and cost a lot less will be available. Technology will just keep racing along.

Charging efficiencies are already above 90%, so the battery technology is essentially irrelevant in regards to charge times.  Energy is energy no matter what stores it.

A 40A charger will still only deliver 40A, no matter what it is charging.

The energy density of the batteries will improve over time though, but this only improves the range, not charging times.

I read somewhere that it will be possible in some cases to combine power points on different fused circuits, effectively doubling the Amperage available. Conditions will apply of course.

Only really feasible if it is only a single phase house.  Fraught with danger if you try to do that on a three phase house...
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: GeoffA on May 08, 2019, 08:43:32 PM
.......However if you do the maths on that you would need around a 20kW array so you would want a damn big roof.

Got 28+kW on our roof.... ;D

Can't see me in a Telsa any time soon, though.

I don't buy into the idea that the future is decentralised power generation and that the grid will no longer be required - although some in the renewables industry are pointing in that direction.

Agree with that Symon. There are plenty of situations where renewables just don't work.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on May 09, 2019, 02:09:59 AM
All these charge rates are based on Lithium batteries.  Within the next decade newer batteries that will last twice as long, charge a lot quicker and cost a lot less will be available. Technology will just keep racing along.

Lithium battery tech is the best we have for mobile battery use and it's now old mature technology albeit Tesla are the best in the world at it at present. There's a common misconception that battery tech is like the digital information revolution when energy is completely different being bound by the iron laws of physics and economics as this physicist ably argues with some sobering big picture stuff-
 https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-near-impossible (https://www.manhattan-institute.org/green-energy-revolution-near-impossible)

A thousand years of Tesla's Gigafactory output just to store 2 days worth of current US electricity demand you say? Then on top of that sort of output the magical thinkers reckon all our vehicles will have them too (4410 of Tesla's 2170 lego lithium bricks in a Tesla M3 battery pack) and at the same time they'll all need replacing every 10-15 years or so? That just aint gunna happen in anyone's lifetime as any serious attempt to do so will drive lithium battery raw materials prices into orbit. Portable electronics move over your power source is required elsewhere.

With the solar/wind/battery revolution whole societies have taken complete leave of their senses and any rational analysis and the whole fantasy is now running on very expensive emotion. That simply won't cut it up against physics and concomitant economics.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 09, 2019, 06:43:21 AM
Concomitant ??    Geez, I had to look that up. ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 09, 2019, 06:56:00 AM
Concomitant ??    Geez, I had to look that up. ;D
You should also look up the Manhattan Institute... ;)

Quote
In July of 2016, nineteen U.S. Senators delivered a series of speeches denouncing climate change denial from 32 organizations with links to fossil-fuel interests, including the Manhattan Institute for Public Policy.
"shine a little light on the web of climate denial and spotlight the bad actors in the web, who are polluting our American discourse with phony climate denial.
This web of denial, formed over decades, has been built and provisioned by the deep-pocketed Koch brothers, by ExxonMobil, by Peabody coal, and by other fossil fuel interests. It is a grim shadow over our democracy in that it includes an electioneering effort that spends hundreds of millions of dollars in a single election cycle and threatens any Republican who steps up to address the global threat of climate change. . . .
It is long past time we shed some light on the perpetrators of this web of denial and expose their filthy grip on our political process. It is a disgrace, and our grandchildren will look back at this as a dirty time in America’s political history because of their work.”
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 09, 2019, 10:41:48 AM
A thousand years of Tesla's Gigafactory output just to store 2 days worth of current US electricity demand you say? Then on top of that sort of output the magical thinkers reckon all our vehicles will have them too (4410 of Tesla's 2170 lego lithium bricks in a Tesla M3 battery pack) and at the same time they'll all need replacing every 10-15 years or so? That just aint gunna happen in anyone's lifetime.

It's not really that hard to fathom, the Giga factory is only about 30% complete, assuming that when it's finished it will output 3 times as many lithium cells, build a 100 factories (that's like 2 factories per US state)  and you would probably have enough supply to do 3 days worth of storage replaced ever ten years as well as vehicles.

any serious attempt to do so will drive lithium battery raw materials prices into orbit.

Based on what? lithium battery demand has increased dramatically and prices have actually gone down, there are plenty of new mines coming online as well and some are predicting an oversupply in the near future.

(https://data.bloomberglp.com/professional/sites/24/Capture2.jpg)
Source: https://about.bnef.com/blog/behind-scenes-take-lithium-ion-battery-prices/

But say prices for the raw materials did go up, from the above source.

Quote
A 50% increase in lithium prices would for instance increase the battery pack price of a nickel-manganese-cobalt (NMC) 811 battery by less than 4%. Similarly, a doubling of cobalt prices would result in a 3% increase in the overall pack price.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 09, 2019, 11:23:36 AM
Maybe they should revisit Thorium power  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68A_HPYGdlk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68A_HPYGdlk)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9e64AFieCM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9e64AFieCM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK367T7h6ZY)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: WilSurf on May 09, 2019, 11:24:27 AM
And now Tesla has "slashed" their prices. Up to $58,500 off, however still $137,700 for the Model S Performance. :-)
https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/tesla-slashes-prices-renames-entire-range (https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/tesla-slashes-prices-renames-entire-range)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Symon on May 09, 2019, 12:02:09 PM
It's not really that hard to fathom, the Giga factory is only about 30% complete, assuming that when it's finished it will output 3 times as many lithium cells, build a 100 factories (that's like 2 factories per US state)  and you would probably have enough supply to do 3 days worth of storage replaced ever ten years as well as vehicles.

Based on what? lithium battery demand has increased dramatically and prices have actually gone down, there are plenty of new mines coming online as well and some are predicting an oversupply in the near future.

But say prices for the raw materials did go up, from the above source.

It's worth keeping in mind that even though Panasonic / Tesla dominates the western media on battery technology, they are currently only #3 on the world battery production rankings.  By 2025 LG Chem will have double the production capacity of Panasonic, and CATL will have almost triple.  BYD will overtake Panasonic by 2022, and Wanxiang will overtake them sometime before 2025.

The Tesla gigafactories won't make as much of an impact as the media is portraying - the Chinese and Koreans are already producing and ramping up at an incredible rate.

As Lithium designs improve they are using less and less cobalt, so I would think that will become less of an issue in the future.

Got 28+kW on our roof.... ;D

Show off  :cup:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 01:07:43 PM
Prime Minister Scott Morrison says an electric vehicle can't tow a boat or trailer.

The claim:

In response to Labor's plan to accelerate Australia's uptake of electric vehicles by introducing a target of 50 per cent of new car sales being electric by 2030, Prime Minister Scott Morrison announced that "Bill Shorten wants to end the weekend".

Speaking to reporters in Melbourne, he said: "[An electric vehicle] won't tow your trailer. It's not going to tow your boat. It's not going to get you out to your favourite camping spot with your family."


The truth:

The experts noted that standard electric vehicles now on the market could travel, on average, 300 to 400 kilometres on a single charge. Some models — the Tesla Model X, for example — could reach up to 500 kilometres, with towing capacity.

This means that the most efficient of these models could make a trip from Melbourne to the Grampians on a single charge, depending on driving style and conditions. The same holds for driving from Sydney to Narooma.

.....

Many of the world's leading car manufacturers — General Motors, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Toyota and Hyundai — have all started manufacturing fully-electric models.

In the US, Ford recently announced it would build a fully electric version of its popular F-Series pick-up truck.

Toyota has committed to hybrid, electric and hydrogen fuel-cell variants for its entire range to be made available to markets in China, Japan, the US, Europe and India by 2025, and which includes its HiLux and LandCruiser SUV.


.....

Can electric vehicles tow?

 https://youtu.be/rvk4fNxF0l4 (https://youtu.be/rvk4fNxF0l4)

Experts told Fact Check it was incorrect to suggest that electric vehicles generally did not have towing capacity.

Most electric vehicles have plenty of pulling power, reflected in their high output of torque.

A number of electric vehicles currently on the Australian market (and coming in 2019) generate power not too dissimilar to a standard petrol-fuelled vehicle. These models produce between 300 and 600Nm of torque.

The Tesla Model X P100D produces 967Nm of torque, with a 2.25 ton towing capacity.

....


The verdict on this latest scare campaign:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190510/3d2b20b0663d93b3f715fab3f1b0a363.jpg)


The full story:
 https://abc.net.au/news/2019-05-10/federal-election-fact-check-electric-vehicle-tow-boat/11078464?pfmredir=sm (https://abc.net.au/news/2019-05-10/federal-election-fact-check-electric-vehicle-tow-boat/11078464?pfmredir=sm)

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 10, 2019, 01:38:40 PM
Even a human can pull a plane on nice flat concrete ..
 The 2c question is : Now show us the EV 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t,   up hill and  down dale at the speed limit for 500 Km,  pull up at a Recharging point to charge up in 10 minutes to full and do it all again,   dont forget a couple of  auxilary portable battery packs to extend the range by a couple of hundred Km when out in the bush .. Till then people will keep what theyve got .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pottsy on May 10, 2019, 01:52:13 PM
Even a human can pull a plane on nice flat concrete ..
 The 2c question is : Now show us the EV 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t,   up hill and  down dale at the speed limit for 500 Km,  pull up at a Recharging point to charge up in 10 minutes to full and do it all again,   dont forget a couple of  auxilary portable battery packs to extend the range by a couple of hundred Km when out in the bush .. Till then people will keep what theyve got .
X 2
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Kangaron on May 10, 2019, 02:24:50 PM
The Rivian looks the goods. = https://products.rivian.com/suv/ (https://products.rivian.com/suv/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMfxJEfb4lw)

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 10, 2019, 02:41:19 PM
Would be nice to see it all  loaded / towing to the max and then see the figures  they get .. But Dohh the charge times and recharge  in the scrub .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 02:56:34 PM
Even a human can pull a plane on nice flat concrete ..
 The 2c question is : Now show us the EV 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t,   up hill and  down dale at the speed limit for 500 Km,  pull up at a Recharging point to charge up in 10 minutes to full and do it all again,   dont forget a couple of  auxilary portable battery packs to extend the range by a couple of hundred Km when out in the bush .. Till then people will keep what theyve got .

Was just putting facts to the lies.
I wont be purchasing one any time soon, but the facts are EVs can absolutely tow trailers, boats, ect.

From a 2017 test drive review;

Quote
Despite having a 1900kg caravan in tow, it’s not a problem on our mainly bitumen course with the Tesla’s regenerative braking, which can be switched off, washing off speed quickly once I take my foot off the accelerator.
As for acceleration, it’s real rush and unlike anything I’ve experienced in a tow vehicle, including a Toyota LandCruiser and RAM 2500.
With an estimated 386kW and at least 600Nm available from the get-go, the Model X gets up to speed very sharply and swiftly, not to mention quietly with just a whir from the dual motors and some tyre noise to disturb the ambience.

I call it quits at 90km/h but it feels like it could easily double that, surging almost effortlessly on only light throttle. It’s an addictive rush that most fossil fuel-powered tow tugs can only dream of delivering.
Driving solo, the Model X 75D is good for a 0-100km/h time of 6.2sec and a 210km/h top speed, so I can only imagine what it would be like towing with the top-spec 100kWh battery version that delivers 447kW and 1074Nm.

The Model X also feels very stable when towing, helped by a low centre of gravity, slick aerodynamic shape and close to 2500kg kerb weight. Munro’s Model X is fitted with the standard 20-inch wheels that allow towing up to the maximum 2280kg with the optional 22-inch wheels lowering that to 1588kg.

The height-adjustable air suspension offers some initial firmness but rides comfortably over some dirt sections, with just some minor wobble as the suspension makes minor adjustments while cruising at highway speeds.
Other highlights are a good turning circle and nice, lighting steering (in Comfort mode), while Trailer Sway Control (when operating) is a handy back-up feature.

Fitted with the 75kWh battery Tesla says the Model X will travel up 417km on a full charge, and the common consensus is that this would reduce by at least 30 per cent, or down to 300km when towing a two-tonne trailer.
Tesla ‘supercharger’ stations located between Melbourne and Brisbane on Australia’s east coast, which can deliver 270km into the battery in 20 minutes.

Not quite the 500km range and 10 minute refill that you're demanding, but there's still nearly 11 years to go before these evil EVs kill your weekends...
As noted in the fact check artical all major manufactures are working on EV (or hybrid) versions of thier current models, including F-Trucks and the Hilux.
It's pretty clear the PM's scare tactics are all BS and as I said in my first post in this thread, it doesn't matter what Bill or Scotty want, we'll get what we're given.

As much as it pains big Scotty, I'm not scared of the posibilty that one day I might own an EV with torque figures s***ting all over todays offerings....  :cheers:



Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 10, 2019, 03:01:43 PM
The Tesla Model X P100D produces 967Nm of torque, with a 2.25 ton towing capacity.

They are technically correct, they conviently don't mention it $200k price tag though.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 03:05:05 PM
They are technically correct, they conviently don't mention it $200k price tag though.

Actually I happened to look that one up.
That model Tesla comes in at almost the exact same retail price as a 200 Series Cruiser Sahara...

And based on the videos I've seen in the 'I got bogged at inskip' thread I'm thinking the Tesla probably goes just as well on sand as a 200 series..... :P   :-*

Edit;
Sorry, the Tesla in the road test artical costs the same as a 200 series, not the X P110D that you have quoted.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 03:08:07 PM
The 2c question is : Now show us the EV 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t,   up hill and  down dale at the speed limit for 500 Km

I forgot to ask,
Can you give an example of any current 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t,   up hill and  down dale at the speed limit and get 500 Km from a single tank?

Before you start throwing out names like Cruisers and Patrols, the rules are "TOWING 2T, UP HILL, AT THE SPEED LIMIT" remember....  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Steffo1 on May 10, 2019, 04:34:01 PM
Don't know about 2 Tonne but my D3 td6 averages 12.4 litres/100k with the Goldstream on the back, which comes in arouns 1750 kg. Easily sit on 110 highway and 100 normal. With an 82 litre tank I reckon I'd give it a nudge. :laugh:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: JusyApples on May 10, 2019, 04:51:39 PM
I forgot to ask,
Can you give an example of any current 4x4 that can, fully loaded for bear, towing up to 2 t,   up hill and  down dale at the speed limit and get 500 Km from a single tank?

Before you start throwing out names like Cruisers and Patrols, the rules are "TOWING 2T, UP HILL, AT THE SPEED LIMIT" remember....  ;D ;D ;D ;D
RAM 1500


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 10, 2019, 05:26:12 PM
RAM 1500


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Winner!!!  :cup:  :cheers:

Old mate in a RAM towing a big arsed New Age asolutely left me for dead in my Triton with my 500kg trailer going up a decent incline on the highway at Christmas time. Very impressive...
I'm guessing it would take close to the 10 minute limit to fill those 121L tanks though... ;)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: JusyApples on May 10, 2019, 05:35:10 PM
Winner!!!  :cup:  :cheers:

Old mate in a RAM towing a big arsed New Age asolutely left me for dead in my Triton with my 500kg trailer going up a decent incline on the highway at Christmas time. Very impressive...
I'm guessing it would take close to the 10 minute limit to fill those 121L tanks though... ;)
My old man has one. Said he didn’t notice his caravan on the back. My uncle in his ranger couldn’t keep up going through the blue mountains at Easter


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: GeoffA on May 10, 2019, 07:04:52 PM
RAM 1500

Check the axle capacities on the 1500 before plonking money down.....
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: speewa158 on May 10, 2019, 07:24:31 PM
Re interesting read on electric cars



                                         A S      I F
trot out a 5.5KVA  Gen set to power it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: austastar on May 10, 2019, 08:40:30 PM


I'm  guessing it would take close to the 10 minute limit to fill those 121L tanks though... ;)

Then switch it off 'cause it's gaining on you.

Cheers



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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Rumpig on May 10, 2019, 08:49:53 PM
Winner!!!  :cup:  :cheers:

Old mate in a RAM towing a big arsed New Age asolutely left me for dead in my Triton with my 500kg trailer going up a decent incline on the highway at Christmas time. Very impressive...
I'm guessing it would take close to the 10 minute limit to fill those 121L tanks though... ;)
good chance a remapped 79 series would likely leave you behind also...surprisingly a couple of mates 200 series's struggle to stay with mine and another friends remapped 79's going up big climbs when towing similar sized vans. Going up Cunningham's Gap last week towing 2 tonne of caravan, the only thing to slow me up was the sharpness of one corner near the top.....towing our Kimberley Kamper I just keep going at the speed limit around that corner,  but with the caravan on the back I thought best to ease off on that corner for safety reasons.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Inland_Sailor on May 10, 2019, 09:57:33 PM
What amazes me is these big rigs, Ram and Chevy, they are now getting the same sort of litres per hundred as the diesel 200 and they're on petrol! If your paying out that sort of money for a  tow vehicle, making a choice which way to go now seems to me to be very difficult decision!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 11, 2019, 12:48:56 AM
 ;D ;D Good onya Pete, Thats why it was a 2c question  ;D ;D
  Just wish these innovators Spruking all these flash numbers for this n that Electro buggy would actualy show real world test results .. Here it is loaded up with 400kg / 7 adults, fifteen kids and six dogs towing a 3500 kg trailer  just finishing a  640 km road trip up through the great diving range on one battery charge .. What a great electric buggy this is ..
But instead they say it can carry 400 kg payload .. But dont tell you the battery runs flat in 400 km .. yes it can tow 3500 kg but only gets 200 km to a charge etc etc ..
Yes it can get 640 km to a charge if its unloaded / driven by grandma and run on flat ground .. But then your trip is going to be put on hold for 10 hours till it recharges,  tuff bikkies if theres nothing at the other end to recharge from to get you back .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on May 11, 2019, 06:02:35 AM
Exactly Edz, it's the same argument we used to have with people fitting LP-Gas to 4WD vehicles.
Where do you fill it back up, so you can get home again.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 11, 2019, 06:12:43 AM
All fair points there.
I would just add one comment.

When you’re currently out exploring this big wide land do you notice how many little bush towns that have no servos?
Have you noticed that every single one of those towns have the lights on at night?

Just saying..... ;)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on May 11, 2019, 07:14:25 AM
Yep I would love one for my daily drive to work and back only 15 minutes each way,, if it was a fair price, As I can soon hook up 3 phase, for charging, and ally welding
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 11, 2019, 08:03:18 AM
All fair points there.
I would just add one comment.

When you’re currently out exploring this big wide land do you notice how many little bush towns that have no servos?
Have you noticed that every single one of those towns have the lights on at night?

Just saying..... ;)

Ha ha, then 5 groups of green city dwellers turn up at 8pm (just as the footies starting ) and plug their cars in......overloads the little towns transformer and the city folk wonder why the towns people want to lynch them !!      ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 11, 2019, 08:14:29 AM
Ha ha, then 5 groups of green city dwellers turn up at 8pm (just as the footies starting ) and plug their cars in......overloads the little towns transformer and the city folk wonder why the towns people want to lynch them !!      ;D ;D
I think you meant to say “the convoy of 12 grey nomads has slowly made their way up from Mexico, traveling 15km/h under the speed limit so they can save every volt along the way. They’ve pulled up at the free camp on the side of the highway just on the edge of the small town and shoved their 50 double adapters into the one power point to recharge their tow rigs and watch the telly and run the aircon and put a load of washing on and boil the kettle.”
They’re the ones that tripped the little towns transformer and the local caravan park is now complaining that said grey nomads haven’t stopped and plugged into the caravan park’s power point for the meager fee of $200 per night.... ;) ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Rumpig on May 11, 2019, 08:34:07 AM
I think you meant to say “the convoy of 12 grey nomads has slowly made their way up from Mexico, traveling 15km/h under the speed limit so they can save every volt along the way. They’ve pulled up at the free camp on the side of the highway just on the edge of the small town and shoved their 50 double adapters into the one power point to recharge their tow rigs and watch the telly and run the aircon and put a load of washing on and boil the kettle.”
They’re the ones that tripped the little towns transformer and the local caravan park is now complaining that said grey nomads haven’t stopped and plugged into the caravan park’s power point for the meager fee of $200 per night.... ;) ;D
going by last weekends encounter....said grey nomad will likely just bust out there cheap noisey genny at the free camp and run it late into the night so they can sit inside watching television, then act surprised when I knock on thier door at 9.40 p.m telling them to turn the piece of crap off.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on May 11, 2019, 02:52:13 PM
  Just wish these innovators Spruking all these flash numbers for this n that Electro buggy would actualy show real world test results

But that's the same with petrol / diesel fourbie reviews - the article says it's a top tow vehicle, but they hardly ever actually say what the tow capacity, payload etc is >:(
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on May 11, 2019, 04:17:00 PM
I dont see anything "exciting' about electric cars.... nearly every single one currently otu there, and nearly every 'this is what the future brings' at expos look like Shit.
.. and as someone else said they are tiny. designed mainly for the soy mocca latte with smashed on soy focaccia crowd.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 11, 2019, 04:52:19 PM
I dont see anything "exciting' about electric cars.... nearly every single one currently out there, and nearly every 'this is what the future brings' at expos look like Shit.
.. and as someone else said they are tiny. designed mainly for the soy mocca latte with smashed on soy focaccia crowd.
I wouldn't say I get excited about them (or any car for that matter) but do find them interesting, especially with performance like this https://youtu.be/6eGhjhx8O9M
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 11, 2019, 07:12:03 PM
I wouldn't say I get excited about them (or any car for that matter) but do find them interesting, especially with performance like this https://youtu.be/6eGhjhx8O9M

Certainly nice power, but until I can use one just like a normal motor car, I'll pass. Mightn't be too long, but they'll have automatic charging instead of having to plug the things in, and a faster way of charging ( not sure when that'll be ? )

Not sure I'll live long enough, but the next big thing in motor cars won't be battery power....this battery stuff is just a feel good short term solution.  Hydrogen , fuel cells, nuclear ??? Who knows ??
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pottsy on May 11, 2019, 07:38:31 PM
I like the idea of nuclear cars, no more elitism, everybody driving bombs! ;D :D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on May 12, 2019, 02:29:01 AM
Nothing wrong with EVs in terms of torque power and drive with towing ability and there's less maintenance than ICE cars but the killer is the cost and it won't be coming down to meet ICEs-
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/the-reason-why-electric-cars-will-always-be-expensive/news-story/8f8d81ac872578ad665a264c91b17505 (https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/the-reason-why-electric-cars-will-always-be-expensive/news-story/8f8d81ac872578ad665a264c91b17505)

With the median price of cars on Carsales around $25k and once you hit $50k plus you're only left with around 18% of cars for sale which puts the ZOE, Ioniq, Kona and BMW i3 EVs costing $50-$80k in a very small elite marketplace. Australians who mostly live in stop/start urban environments wont even cough up the extra for hybrids that can pay back in 3 years as Honda know-

'Last October, Honda's local boss ruled out the introduction of the CR-V Hybrid in Australia, largely due to the relatively tiny local hybrid market and lack of government incentives.
"We have no current or immediate plans to bring in the CR-V Hybrid. We’re quite happy with the current line-up and the 1.5 turbo," he said.
"Our view is that the current hybrid market in Australia is less than one per cent of the total vehicle market. Really, without substantial incentives (from the government) much like there are in many other markets around the world, our interest is unlikely to grow significantly in the short term."
"Hybrid is certainly still a part of Honda’s global strategy. But unlike, say, Japan, where there are big customer incentives from the government, we think demand is going to limited in the foreseeable future," he added.'
https://www.caradvice.com.au/703989/2019-honda-cr-v-revealed-europe/ (https://www.caradvice.com.au/703989/2019-honda-cr-v-revealed-europe/)

Full EVs are the cart before the horsepower if they're still running on coal and gas (and in SA diesel gennys) rather than sun and wind but Gigafactories of batteries are needed to ever make that happen and save the dreaded plant food. If full EVs can't do that until the power grid is shifted completely to renewables then why would you want to pay through the nose for EVs? The EV revolution won't happen because mainstream car buyers can't afford them and any annual fuel savings would be more than offset by interest savings as most buy new cars on tick.
Here you go EV fans get in before they rush out the door and pretend you're saving the planet til they blow up the rest of the coal stations-
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Hyundai-Kona-2019/SHRM-AD-6013466/?Cr=2 (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Hyundai-Kona-2019/SHRM-AD-6013466/?Cr=2)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: rockrat on May 12, 2019, 07:13:37 PM
Germany and Sweden are trialling different “electric road” concepts that allow trucks, buses and maybe one day, cars, to recharge on the go.

https://apple.news/ArB_zmpfuQk67D3BeA9NITA


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 12, 2019, 10:51:28 PM
The Bastards here cant even fix or keep a dinosaur tech road in good condition, Imagine the costs of  trying to look after  high tech rechargable powered roads, You'd cut into their expence accounts long lunches and Junket trip money, not gunna happen . ;D ;D ;D   Go less 5 klicks outside of a big city and Pfffttttt  hope your glorified Golf buggy got enough charge so you can make it to the next town to recharge .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on May 13, 2019, 06:25:49 AM
Germany and Sweden are trialling different “electric road” concepts that allow trucks, buses and maybe one day, cars, to recharge on the go.

https://apple.news/ArB_zmpfuQk67D3BeA9NITA


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Does mean pedestrians would get zapped crossing the road?
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Steffo1 on May 13, 2019, 08:20:18 AM
Germany and Sweden are trialling different “electric road” concepts that allow trucks, buses and maybe one day, cars, to recharge on the go.

https://apple.news/ArB_zmpfuQk67D3BeA9NITA


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 13, 2019, 08:20:30 AM
Mega sized Dodgem cars  ;D ;D Think I'll stick with Furzies version thanks   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGr0oifJMEI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGr0oifJMEI)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: #jonesy on May 14, 2019, 08:45:25 PM
Nothing new
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 15, 2019, 09:43:29 PM
Interesting  read of a test of a Tesla X towing an adapted T-Van ..Tesla has 90 kg ball weight limit and a non towing range of 560 odd km .. Then you stick a small camper on it to tow to your favourite caravan park / campground ... Credits to the RV online magazine ..
Check out the range drop when not even towing a loaded small  camper [ 100% charge to 30% in 190 km ] and not at speed ....
Reckon the EV market will have to do the equivelent of going from the wright flyer first flight to the moon in 10 years to be even close to being a viable proposition by 2030 .. Big money IE trillions needs to be injected for that to happen ..Either that or the tech is there and been buried waiting to be wheeled out of the vaults by some .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 15, 2019, 10:08:57 PM
Good to know that the brake controller are excluded.😎
When an all electric win a Dakar type race, it will take it a further 5 years before it can start being considered to be a real SUV.
An electric car should be seen as a city car.
My model 3 will be a city car, I am not consider driving past the Sunny Coast.
My Cruiser is there to tour remotely or even just blacktop touring.

I struggle to see the purpose of the Model X. The technology is not there, so what is its use. Similar to the Lexus hydrid SUV.
Title: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 15, 2019, 10:44:15 PM
And yet at the same time a couple in the USA just finished a 12,400 km trip with their Tesla C 400D towing a 1.7t caravan without too much drama.
Apparently the biggest issue was parking close enough to the charge points with the van in tow.

This quote sounds like most people’s travel plans, especially those lovely grey nomads out there wandering around enjoying our awesome Queensland weather while their bricks and mortar down south is being continuously rained on, snap frozen and blown away for the next 7 or 8 months.... ;)

Quote
To find enough charging spots, they would leave their campground every morning before breakfast and drive for a couple of hours, then get breakfast while charging; drive a couple more hours for lunch and charge again, and aim to hit a campground by 4 pm to allow enough time to charge overnight. They stayed in campgrounds every night they weren’t staying with friends or family, and called ahead for reservations in the afternoon before arrival, once they had a sense of how far they could make it.

At campgrounds, they would pay extra for a camp site with 50-amp hookups to plug in the Tesla. Those sites, meant for RVs and trailers a lot bigger than the R-Pod, also had 30-amp plugs that they could use to power the trailer.

I guess the only real difference is what grey nomads are paying to fill those diesel tanks in their current tow rigs compared to what this yank couple paid for the whole 12,400km trip.

Quote
Fred calculated Supercharger charges at $289 for the trip, or $17 a day, not counting the extra money they paid for campsites with 50-amp hookups.

You go and tell those Mexicans they can do their whole winter tour for under $300 in fuel and see how fast “man gets to the moon”... ;)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 15, 2019, 11:24:53 PM
An electric car should be seen as a city car.
My model 3 will be a city car, I am not consider driving past the Sunny Coast.
My Cruiser is there to tour remotely or even just blacktop touring.

I think this is the bit that most people don't think about, I don't see the internal combustion engine going anywhere anytime soon, but could see the typical two-car family in the near future have one of each, the day to day run around would be electric whilst if they need to go on a longer trip they would take the petrol/diesel, if you don't need the big range out of an electric they could offer smaller batteries which would mean cheaper EV's as well and would still be fine for the day to day. I think around town the EV's will prove to be what many peoples tow/tourer rigs aren't, that being quiet, cheap to run, refined, easily manoeuvrable and zippy.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: AdrianLR on May 16, 2019, 12:20:25 AM

When an all electric win a Dakar type race,

Here you go:
https://www.acciona.com/about-acciona/sponsorships/acciona-ecopowered-dakar/ (https://www.acciona.com/about-acciona/sponsorships/acciona-ecopowered-dakar/)
 No, it didn't win but completed 100% of stages. Same can't be said of most of the 18,000 ICE vehicles that have competed over the years.

Also raced and finished in the Finke rally but got timed out on the one stage under a technicality because that rules couldn't accomodate an EV (even got told initially that it couldn't be entered because the rules only talked about vehicles with ICE). This is the local video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrkSMZIA3Sg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrkSMZIA3Sg)

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Rumpig on May 16, 2019, 06:31:39 AM
Was reading this yesterday in regards to Toyota replacing the 70 series....

Quote
“We have to bring a car to market … that fulfils the requirements of those peoples’ livelihoods and/or recreation, whether it be construction, farming, mining, recreation, private, whatever it may be,” Sean Hanley, Toyota Australia vice president of sales and marketing, said. “We’ve got to bring powertrains to market that reduce our CO2 footprint but still serve to be able to enable people the freedom of mobility.”



One of those drivetrains will be a petrol-electric hybrid system, in line with Toyota’s promise to ensure an electrified version of every model by 2025.
the option will be there if you want it, but won’t be the sole option
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 16, 2019, 07:29:00 AM
https://magazine.rvdaily.com.au/en_US/13101/192380/electric_vehicular_reality.html


Some excellent reading here from someone who has actually driven the various types of electric vehicles.  He makes some good points.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on May 16, 2019, 08:12:11 AM
Tesla has 90 kg ball weight limit

Notice that it quotes specs as "Braked tow: 2270kg" but with only that 90kg ball weight ???

Think it'd be pretty hard to find that combo out there ???

And yet at the same time a couple in the USA just finished a 12,400 km trip with their Tesla C 400D towing a 1.7t caravan without too much drama.

I guess the only real difference is what grey nomads are paying to fill those diesel tanks in their current tow rigs compared to what this yank couple paid for the whole 12,400km trip.

You go and tell those Mexicans they can do their whole winter tour for under $300 in fuel and see how fast “man gets to the moon”... ;)

"called ahead for reservations in the afternoon before arrival, once they had a sense of how far they could make it."

Nice to have so many options of where to stay, that you can decide on your destination mid-arvo >:D

"At campgrounds, they would pay extra for a camp site with 50-amp hookups to plug in the Tesla. Those sites, meant for RVs and trailers a lot bigger than the R-Pod, also had 30-amp plugs that they could use to power the trailer."

& too bad about anybody with a motor-home that may also want to stop for the night >:D

"Fred calculated Supercharger charges at $289 for the trip, or $17 a day, not counting the extra money they paid for campsites with 50-amp hookups"

Sorry, but if you're paying $100 / night for a "big" campsite, rather than $30 for a normal slot, I really think that should be accounted for ??? Sure, it may be <$300 for "fuel", but also $2000 for accomodation
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 16, 2019, 09:17:47 AM
You’ll notice I’m very specifically referring to grey nomads in all of my posts here, I’m not for one second saying a full electric car is a viable option for those of us that prefer to be ‘off grid’ when we travel.

Do you know the price difference between the various powered van sites in the USA?
Here locally we’re talking what $10 difference per night between a powered and unpowered site?
When you’re stopping and using the van park facilities anyway, the very minor difference that ‘might’ be charged for having the bigger power supply wouldn’t really factor into your running costs.

And you’re saying you can’t book any accommodation while you’re on the road???
That’s how we book pretty much all of our accommodation on big trips.
We set off in the morning aiming to get a set distance for the day, then make the call in the afternoon how far we want to push it, do we just do a quick camp on the side of the road or look for a nearby national park or some sort of attraction (a dam/weir/beach/creek) to stop at or just go as far as we can into the night and get the cheapest motor inn with a room available.

Vehicle manufacturers are very clearly saying they are going to produce these EVs as we move forward.
To think that facilitates won’t be built to accommodate these vehicles as they gain popularity is pretty naive.

Like I said before, I don’t plan on buying one anytime soon, but the fact is they are being built now and will become part of the mix in the car fleet of this nation.
Just as supercharged V8s or 4wds on 35” tyres and 5” lifts are not for all city people, electric cars may not be for all country people. But to say there is absolutely no place for them in our Australian car market is wrong in my opinion.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 16, 2019, 10:12:29 AM
Reckon the EV market will have to do the equivelent of going from the wright flyer first flight to the moon in 10 years to be even close to being a viable proposition by 2030 .. Big money IE trillions needs to be injected for that to happen ..

So you're saying it's going to cost trillions of dollars to connect a bunch 30amp or 50amp power points to an existing electricty network?
Really???

And how much do you think it really cost to set up the current network of service stations that are scattered around the country now?
And how much do you think it really costs to run fleets of semi trailers to cart millions of litres of fuel from the ports on the coast (where all of our imported fuel lands from the overseas manufacturers) and carried 1,000s of km out to the vast reaches of our outback?
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on May 16, 2019, 10:48:30 AM
So you're saying it's going to cost trillions of dollars to connect a bunch 30amp or 50amp power points to an existing electricty network?
Really???

And how much do you think it really cost to set up the current network of service stations that are scattered around the country now?
And how much do you think it really costs to run fleets of semi trailers to cart millions of litres of fuel from the ports on the coast (where all of our imported fuel lands from the overseas manufacturers) and carried 1,000s of km out to the vast reaches of our outback?

Half of these service stations wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the fact they have to sell everything from firewood to fishing tackle just to keep their doors open.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 16, 2019, 11:39:50 AM
I should have said  on a world wide scale to go to full EV everything,  Pete, sorry ..
Mobs calling for full EV for everything.. just isnt about cars .. These mobs havent even got heavy transport / farming / then there is long haul air transport / shipping EV stuff yet that works   .. Theres the trillions of $$
Dont get me wrong, EV is coming for sure and Im fine with that, Bring it on. So long as its affordable for all and not just the wealthy,  does the jobs thats needed and preferably is as easy to use as what we currently have . 
I do Wonder what $$ these renewable energy mobs are going to charge per Kw of power for the putting in / maintaining all these new recharge stations in out of the way areas all over  Australia, given that power is way cheaper than fuel ?? ...
Yep it costs Multiple billions for fuel / transport etc, Its saving grace is that those set ups are already in place / to a large part already paid for themselves many times over the last 160 years  and can provide fuel at X $ per liter ..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on May 16, 2019, 01:00:43 PM
Wonder what effect this will have on employment...
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: krisandkev on May 16, 2019, 05:46:20 PM
Think about with the new gov (it appears everyone wants them) and their target for elect cars imagine what the value of our petrol/diesel car will be?  I don't think we will get stuff all on a trade in.  >:D  Kevin
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: rockrat on May 16, 2019, 05:47:59 PM
Think about with the new gov (it appears everyone wants them) and their target for elect cars imagine what the value of our petrol/diesel car will be?  I don't think we will get stuff all on a trade in.  >:D  Kevin
Then again they could be a rarity that people pay more for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 16, 2019, 05:48:31 PM

I do Wonder what $$ these renewable energy mobs are going to charge per Kw of power for the putting in / maintaining all these new recharge stations in out of the way areas all over  Australia, given that power is way cheaper than fuel ?? ...
.

I'm sure the recharge stations will charge a LOT more than the cost of doing it at home. Although, with all this renewable energy and phasing out of "dirty" power stations, the cost of electricity for the average consumer will probably make us one of the dearest places on earth..
Everything comes at a cost.....is everyone prepared to pay for it ??
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on May 16, 2019, 08:22:14 PM
Quote from: rockrat
Then again they could be a rarity that people pay more for.

Not if due to not selling any fuel the price rises to $4-5/ltr.
SIMM's metal wouldnt take them.

Then insurance would be more than your house etc.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: #jonesy on May 17, 2019, 09:45:23 AM
Might become garden ornaments like the old carts and buggies.
I see some neighbourhoods are already ahead of the trend
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 19, 2019, 08:13:15 AM
Not fully electric, but will be interesting how they handle
I will know from June how they perform in real life

https://www.tembo4x4-elv.com/Technical-Specs
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on May 19, 2019, 08:24:38 AM
Not fully electric, but will be interesting how they handle
I will know from June how they perform in real life

https://www.tembo4x4-elv.com/Technical-Specs

I’m pretty sure they’re the same/similar to the ones BHP are already running underground at their Olympic Dam site.
They’re also testing full electric heavy vehicles now with hopes to eliminate all of the toxic diesel fumes in their underground operations.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-29/bhp-biggest-miners-are-starting-to-drive-evs-deep-underground (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-29/bhp-biggest-miners-are-starting-to-drive-evs-deep-underground)

There’s plenty of electric heavy vehicles getting around already.

Right now all of the buses at Brisbane airport today are full electric. That’s the whole fleet that is running around between both airports and the big car parking areas.  https://newsroom.bne.com.au/new-electric-buses-at-brisbane-airport-a-winwin-for-travellers-and-the-environment/ (https://newsroom.bne.com.au/new-electric-buses-at-brisbane-airport-a-winwin-for-travellers-and-the-environment/)

And Casey council in Victoria has joined the many, many councils in NZ that are running fleets of full electric rubbish trucks.
How nice would that be for all of those people to no longer be woken in the early hours of the morning by a big old dirty diesel truck accelerating and braking every 10 meters up and down their streets.  https://thedriven.io/2018/10/04/waste-trucks/ (https://thedriven.io/2018/10/04/waste-trucks/)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on May 19, 2019, 08:34:45 AM
Correct Pete, Olympic Dam use them. We are getting the minor updates from June.
Fully charge range is only 80km to 160km, so no overlander, but great for the underground mine.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on May 19, 2019, 08:36:23 AM
I’m pretty sure they’re the same/similar to the ones BHP are already running underground at their Olympic Dam site.
They’re also testing full electric heavy vehicles now with hopes to eliminate all of the toxic diesel fumes in their underground operations.  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-29/bhp-biggest-miners-are-starting-to-drive-evs-deep-underground (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-29/bhp-biggest-miners-are-starting-to-drive-evs-deep-underground)

There’s plenty of electric heavy vehicles getting around already.

Right now all of the buses at Brisbane airport today are full electric. That’s the whole fleet that is running around between both airports and the big car parking areas.  https://newsroom.bne.com.au/new-electric-buses-at-brisbane-airport-a-winwin-for-travellers-and-the-environment/ (https://newsroom.bne.com.au/new-electric-buses-at-brisbane-airport-a-winwin-for-travellers-and-the-environment/)

And Casey council in Victoria has joined the many, many councils in NZ that are running fleets of full electric rubbish trucks.
How nice would that be for all of those people to no longer be woken in the early hours of the morning by a big old dirty diesel truck accelerating and braking every 10 meters up and down their streets.  https://thedriven.io/2018/10/04/waste-trucks/ (https://thedriven.io/2018/10/04/waste-trucks/)

Had big battery powered loaders in underground mines 20yrs ago......they would come in for a battery pod change at least once a shift.....each pod would weigh approx 2 ton....and still remember the spiel from the supplier, a 12 inch shifter , if let fall across the terminals, would take approx 4 seconds to vaporise......so there are some serious amps to deal with.....just another side to the clean, green EV equation..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on May 19, 2019, 01:22:38 PM
and still remember the spiel from the supplier, a 12 inch shifter , if let fall across the terminals, would take approx 4 seconds to vaporise.....

Remember fitting some gear in the back of an Army Land-Rover radio vehicle with 24v power supply, & dropping a shifter, which fell across the battery terminals :-[  ::)

Big flash, shifter thrown several metres away, & about a 5mm chunk of metal blown out of the handle :o

Was "somewhat" ;D more careful after that!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: AdrianLR on May 20, 2019, 09:36:18 PM
Have been following the Rivian for a while. Specs including range and towing are solid.

https://thedriven.io/2019/05/20/rivian-shows-off-camp-kitchen-prototype-powered-by-all-electric-ute/
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: kizza1 on May 20, 2019, 10:04:56 PM
Did someone say electric brick
https://bollingermotors.com/ (https://bollingermotors.com/)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on May 21, 2019, 12:06:20 AM
Looks like they styled it of  the TGEV1  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCSNCs7bwCw  and morphed it with a series 1 > 3 landrover, Kizz ...                                                   
 
Guessing sailing ships will have to make a return in a modern form too " Super container / tanker sailors "  Going to need a hell of a lot of cotton or hemp for  sails once fossil fuels get the heave ho  .. New employment prospects for all the out of work oil industry people ..
Not to mention Air travel is going to be a bit reduced to go EV Green..
Wonder what theyre going to use instead of all the dirty petro chemical byproduct plastics in these new glorified green golf buggies ..  Say good bye to a lot of everyday world wide  plastic stuff used ..  better start growing more trees . ;)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: #jonesy on May 21, 2019, 05:23:21 AM
Did someone say electric brick
https://bollingermotors.com/ (https://bollingermotors.com/)

From the site
 
Will the trucks have airbags?

No, air bags will not be in the final produced trucks. We are engineering the B1 and B2 to safety standards that exceed federal regulation using seat belts.

Wow this new tech is great!!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Paddler Ed on May 21, 2019, 08:24:13 AM
From the site
 
Will the trucks have airbags?

No, air bags will not be in the final produced trucks. We are engineering the B1 and B2 to safety standards that exceed federal regulation using seat belts.

Wow this new tech is great!!

That's because in America the airbag is used as a Supplementary Restraint System - which is why so many of the early European cars had SRS on their steering wheels or as the dashboard light. IIRC they were also bigger airbags fitted in the models that were sold on the US market as a result - the land of the free didn't make you wear a seatbelt, or if you did, they made it as easy as possible to put one on (see all the stupid looking track systems to help you...)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on May 21, 2019, 09:58:06 AM
Have been following the Rivian for a while. Specs including range and towing are solid.

Haven't seen them before at all, but 5 tonnes towing seems a hell of a lot ???

& wading to 1m - what happens if your batteries get wet ??? Will it short them out or are they, & all the cables & so on, sealed  in some way ???
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on May 21, 2019, 10:01:40 AM
Did someone say electric brick

I'm sure my kids made that out of Lego a while back :D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: #jonesy on May 21, 2019, 02:58:20 PM
That's because in America the airbag is used as a Supplementary Restraint System - which is why so many of the early European cars had SRS on their steering wheels or as the dashboard light. IIRC they were also bigger airbags fitted in the models that were sold on the US market as a result - the land of the free didn't make you wear a seatbelt, or if you did, they made it as easy as possible to put one on (see all the stupid looking track systems to help you...)
SRS is on all airbags in Aust. The are supplemental to seatbelts, i.e. offer extra protection.
U.S. I believe are programmed to fire at a different rate / bigger to compensate for no seatbelt.

I thought it was odd that they effectively say you don't need airbags if you have a seatbelt on.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on May 26, 2019, 01:48:16 PM
https://news.google.com/articles/CBMie2h0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNhcnNndWlkZS5jb20uYXUvY2FyLW5ld3MvZWxlY3RyaWMtdG95b3RhLWxhbmRjcnVpc2VyLWhpbHV4LXB1dC10by13b3JrLWluLW96LWlzLXRoaXMtdGhlLWNvb2xlc3QtZXYtZXZlci03NDcxNdIBAA?hl=en-AU&gl=AU&ceid=AU%3Aen
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on June 04, 2019, 10:22:45 AM
The tesla ute/truck https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-pickup-truck-will-cost-less-than-50k?
 (https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-pickup-truck-will-cost-less-than-50k?)

(https://static.interestingengineering.com/img/iea/JYG05Y9J61/sizes/truck_resize_md.jpg)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on June 04, 2019, 11:43:21 AM
Quote from: tryagain
(https://static.interestingengineering.com/img/iea/JYG05Y9J61/sizes/truck_resize_md.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/zrgR05B.jpg)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Ozsnowman on June 05, 2019, 01:30:34 PM
The tesla ute/truck https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-pickup-truck-will-cost-less-than-50k?
 (https://interestingengineering.com/tesla-pickup-truck-will-cost-less-than-50k?)

(https://static.interestingengineering.com/img/iea/JYG05Y9J61/sizes/truck_resize_md.jpg)

Not official render - just a fan job. I guess it will look far different when it is finally revealed
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on June 06, 2019, 12:11:22 PM
Victorian Police go for Tesla EV patrol cars https://www.caradvice.com.au/762581/tesla-model-x-vic-highway-patrol/ 
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Robbo on June 06, 2019, 03:23:54 PM
Victorian Police go for Tesla EV patrol cars https://www.caradvice.com.au/762581/tesla-model-x-vic-highway-patrol/
As long as you've got a full tank of gas, they will run out of power before you run out of petrol.


Sent from my SM-J600G using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on June 06, 2019, 04:35:47 PM
As long as you've got a full tank of gas, they will run out of power before you run out of petrol.


Sent from my SM-J600G using Tapatalk
:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on June 06, 2019, 07:52:42 PM
As long as you've got a full tank of gas, they will run out of power before you run out of petrol.


Sent from my SM-J600G using Tapatalk
Gold
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on June 08, 2019, 11:02:41 PM
That'll be like the BMW Convertible and the Mazda RX7 along with various others, including a Yellow HSV Monaro.

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on June 27, 2019, 07:24:57 PM
 Electric car charging electric car ,mmmmm    dunno    ;D ;D ;D         DAMTC is a Rescue mob in Austria apparently, would have thought they would have LH drive cars over there  ? .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wczZSh1vAVM
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on July 29, 2019, 12:47:59 PM
still pretending.... 400klm range.. on a good day with the wind behind you downhill with a 400kg payload LMAO

Quote
While Rivian and Tesla talk a big game and argue among themselves about who will release the first all-electric pick-up/ute, Nissan and Chinese manufacturer Dongfeng have combined forces to beat them to it with the Rich 6 EV. Based off the Navara’s body the Rich ute range traditionally was supplied with either a petrol or diesel engine.

...In the Rich 6 EV, that engine has been replaced by a single 68kWh electric motor that reaches the astounding figures of 119kW and 420Nm. The Nissan Dongfeng collaboration has an uninspiringly low payload of 490kg, along with a claimed top speed of 110km/h and more importantly a claimed range of 403km.
https://mr4x4.com.au/new-navara-electric-ute/
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on August 29, 2019, 01:30:37 AM
Latest research on CO2 savings with EVs in Australia whereby 75% of our power is currently coal fired-
https://www.thegwpf.com/new-report-electric-cars-have-higher-co2-emissions/
The graph tells the story if you're running one on Tas hydro vs Vic brown coal naturally.

Here's more on how Norway can be a world leader with EV penetration as that article notes with the Hyundai i30 pricing over there-
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jul/02/norway-electric-cars-subsidies-fossil-fuel
I guess you can bankroll anything like that if you've got a big piggybank Future Fund made from North Sea oil and perhaps that should be our tack.
We just want to build a big piggybank for the same with our coal and LNG.

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on August 29, 2019, 02:01:21 AM
Of course even if the EVs are running on hydro solar and wind that still won't be good enough for the omniscient Green overlords who know what's best for us all-
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-49425402
The further out of reach they are from having to be interrupted by messy trivialities like local elections the better they're able to understand the really big picture on all our behalf   :-* 
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on August 30, 2019, 07:59:09 AM
& for another alternative:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/hydrogen-cars-could-be-commercial-by-2025/11456626 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/hydrogen-cars-could-be-commercial-by-2025/11456626)

Better range, but same problem with refueling in the bush though!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: sparksy on September 08, 2019, 09:11:30 PM
& for another alternative:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/hydrogen-cars-could-be-commercial-by-2025/11456626 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-30/hydrogen-cars-could-be-commercial-by-2025/11456626)

Better range, but same problem with refueling in the bush though!

Not here  :D
(https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?attachments/cda93629-3999-4ff7-83f0-cd83e39b2873-jpeg.63252/)

So much for reducing greenhouse gasses.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on September 09, 2019, 10:10:49 AM
Not here  :D
(https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?attachments/cda93629-3999-4ff7-83f0-cd83e39b2873-jpeg.63252/)

So much for reducing greenhouse gasses.

Makes a lot of sense.....run a diesel gennie....probably without a dpf,  to put out a piddling 20A for that one car.
All this renewable talk has been put down by claims it will make almost zero difference to global emissions.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on October 30, 2019, 09:28:30 AM
its the future ROTFLMAO

Nissan Leaf $33,000 battery bill
“I bought an electric car from Nissan with 5 years warranty on the battery. They claimed 175km range. From new I only ever got 120km. Now I can BARELY get 35-40km during winter or even 25km if I use the heater. The warranty says the battery is bad if it drops to 8 out of 12 bars, which mine has.

“I took it in and they claim the battery is totally fine and there’s nothing wrong with it and gave me a $33,000 invoice for a new one!!!!! Nissan just won’t listen and I’ve run out of all hope. I paid $53,500 for this car and it’s pretty useless now.” - Phillip Carlson


Here’s the official battery replacement quote from Lennock Motors in the ACT. $750 to replace the battery, an incredible $29,600 for the battery, you Nissan chumps. Plus GST: that’s $33,385 in total. On a Shitheap worth $12k, on a good day today.

(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/51297e5de4b01fa6748bc904/1569907374441-NU1QLV0OKT1EWN1RS2F3/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kLTeX5AuO6ym2H0nm1fmhxF7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z5QHyNOqBUUEtDDsRWrJLTmJdLpeZW_ttQnjXwTxihzWIvniZMJCzBycGwtbcgd4SxddYJfhKTlXBd5JcSU3EA5/IMG_0010.jpg?format=1500w)


https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/astonishing-30k-nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-bill (https://autoexpert.com.au/videoblog/astonishing-30k-nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-bill)

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on October 30, 2019, 10:49:44 AM
Ahhh But We are doing our bit to "  SAVE THE PLANET "  They scream unlike all you Fossil fuel "  PLANET KILLING CONTAMINATORS "  ..... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pottsy on October 30, 2019, 11:41:07 AM
i heard a similar story many moons ago about the Prius and the cost of new batteries, was about a third of the cost of the vehicle if memory serves me right.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: sharkcaver on October 30, 2019, 06:36:21 PM
And when the time comes for all EV owners to have to replace their battery (which will happen sometime), I bet their EV purchase is then not looking so bright hey!
T'was a good idea at the time....not so good now.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: kizza1 on October 30, 2019, 06:39:04 PM
Ls3 swap
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on October 30, 2019, 06:48:46 PM
Ls3 swap
LS3 would be bigger than the car LOL
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on October 30, 2019, 06:57:54 PM
And when the time comes for all EV owners to have to replace their battery (which will happen sometime), I bet their EV purchase is then not looking so bright hey!
T'was a good idea at the time....not so good now.

That's what makes them renewable, time to trade in on a new one
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on October 30, 2019, 07:22:54 PM
TESLA EV  FIXED .........   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHA6urtPhDQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHA6urtPhDQ)     
If only ..
Well this one is ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFbvYeFO8w4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFbvYeFO8w4)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on October 30, 2019, 08:55:45 PM
TESLA EV  FIXED .........   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHA6urtPhDQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHA6urtPhDQ)     
If only ..
Well this one is ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFbvYeFO8w4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFbvYeFO8w4)
Smartcar. Fixed.... but fixed years ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgwzHJo3IXM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgwzHJo3IXM)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on November 03, 2019, 12:47:19 PM
Basically they're too dear for most for what they are-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/why-bmw-believes-were-not-ready-for-evs-yet/ar-AAJviuE
whereas Toyota are backing the half way house with hybrids and if you package it up in an SUV people want to buy the guess what?
https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/toyota-rav4-hybrid-wait-time-up-to-six-months-but-now-you-can-rent-a-camry-to-tide-you-over
The extra cost for a hybrid will pay you back in around 3 years apparently with largely urban driving (negligible benefit on the highway) whereas the sticker price of EVs won't ever unless fuel prices go sky high.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on November 03, 2019, 01:01:14 PM
Still maybe the Chinese Glory will get the moths out your wallets eh?
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/research/is-this-australias-cheapest-mid-size-suv-ev/ar-AAJsg4X
because it looks like Kia have given up for the time being on all you cheap bastards down under not doing your bit to save the planet-
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/hitech/why-kias-new-eniro-electric-car-is-offlimits-in-australia/news-story/9805176556708e936040e2a641f3853c
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on November 03, 2019, 04:41:05 PM
Bugger your  EV's..         Im going Biological powered      :cheers:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Ozsnowman on November 04, 2019, 01:36:52 PM
James May has got himself a Model S now too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzDzv4NVlfE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzDzv4NVlfE)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: WilSurf on November 05, 2019, 01:31:25 PM
Interesting doco yesterday on SBS "Who killed the EV1?"
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Paddler Ed on November 05, 2019, 01:56:18 PM
Interesting doco yesterday on SBS "Who killed the EV1?"

Yep, I wanted an early night... well, that idea went out the window!

It was very interesting in the purchasing of the technology by those who would like to restrict it...
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pottsy on November 05, 2019, 03:04:23 PM
Yep, I wanted an early night... well, that idea went out the window!

It was very interesting in the purchasing of the technology by those who would like to restrict it...

Remember Ralph Sarich and his engine, I think that technology was bought and restricted as well.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on November 09, 2019, 02:53:15 PM
Remember Ralph Sarich and his engine, I think that technology was bought and restricted as well.


Not quite as the Sarich engine originally offered reduced fuel consumption in response to the Arab oil crisis but its long development time meant conventional piston engine technology along with fuel injection kept pace with that and ultimately Sarich's engine couldn't overcome a number of design problems to compete-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarich_orbital_engine

Nevertheless the need for direct injection did produce leading technology in that field and in conjunction with Siemens and their Synerject project commercialised that-
http://www.italiaspeed.com/news_2003/news_2003_081orbital.html

As well as developing a direct injection two stroke piston engine that didn't consume oil Orbital Engine Company became an engineering and fuel testing company for other carmakers as a result although that business waned and it would appear with their ability with small engine combustion technology and various fuels they're now well established in the UAV sector-
https://orbitaluav.com/about-us/our-business/

So they've had a few changes of direction over the years from Mr Sarich's initial foray into automotive engines and you can't afford to stand still in any fast moving technological sector but constantly adapt to the marketplace and go where the profitable returns are. There's no conspiracy to be had in a global marketplace as build a better mousetrap and the world will beat a path to your door with plenty of imitators to follow. After all why on earth would you sit on clearly advantageous technology leaving all the returns to others in future? It's an urban myth that anyone or any corporation would do so as it's hard enough kicking and gouging in the existing marketplace with well known technology and you're always looking for an edge over your competitors.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: briann532 on November 09, 2019, 06:35:43 PM
Soooooooooooooo.............

As it turns out EV is not so good. Who would have thought???

I run my car on a truly recycled fuel and it runs well and goes far and is efficient. Engine probably good for half a million clicks if I take care of it too.
Yep recycled dinosaurs. They give oil which fuels my car.
It's a good system.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on November 09, 2019, 07:34:19 PM
Isn’t that cannibalism?
One dinosaur feeding on other dinosaurs.... ;D ;)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: briann532 on November 10, 2019, 06:58:22 AM
Isn’t that cannibalism?
One dinosaur feeding on other dinosaurs.... ;D ;)

I resemble that remark.   ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Spada on November 10, 2019, 07:27:18 AM
All electric 70 series, apparently the electric drive system can be retrofitted to existing vehicles? It's built specifically for mine operations, but who knows ? - https://youtu.be/tVhquG_rCsA (https://youtu.be/tVhquG_rCsA) being done by an Aussie company in WA - https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/ (https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/)

I still electric vehicles only being practical in an urban or controlled industrial environment though, due to the problems with remote charging though?
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: prodigyrf on November 10, 2019, 11:02:15 AM
I notice they're not saying what those series 70 conversions cost though and if you don't need a fourby it would probably be cheaper to get a Tesla S or the Model X if you want the mandatory SUV.

As far as EVs go they're too dear for most but you might have to set your sights on a hybrid in future as they keep ramping up emissions standards to strangle the ICE and the domestic diesel will be the first to go with their problematic vac bags up the exhaust already. In that respect get ready for GPF with your petrol engines too-
https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/features/gasoline-particulate-filter-gpf/

That's why carmakers like Hyundai are sniffing the wind on hybrids now with Toyota's RAV4 success-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/hyundais-plan-to-topple-toyota/ar-AAJQUDc
All sorts of development going on in that respect and the old 12V battery might have had its day-
https://dieselnet.com/news/2017/10daimler.php
It's logical if diesels can't cut it with emissions and petrol lacks torque (or if you design one for torque the fuel economy and emissions suffer)you can get around that to some extent using the benefits of electric motors to get the load off the line until the petrol engine takes over with optimum rpm and as well you can recover waste energy with regenerative braking.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on November 11, 2019, 06:11:07 PM
This new battery technology could be a big game changer...


South Australian researchers from the University of Adelaide have secured an A$1 million research contract with a Chinese battery manufacturer to develop the new technology and bring it to market within 12 months.

The patented design uses non-toxic zinc and manganese, two metals that are abundant in Australia, and incombustible aqueous electrolyte to produce a battery with a high-energy density.

The researchers estimate the cost of this new electrolytic Zn–Mn battery to be less than US$ 10 per kWh compared with US$ 300 per kWh for current Li-ion batteries, US$ 72 per kWh for Ni–Fe batteries and US$ 48 per kWh for Lead–acid batteries.

The battery is designed by Dr Dongliang Chao and Professor Shi-Zhang Qiao from the University of Adelaide’s School of Chemical Engineering and Advanced Materials.

The high-energy, safe battery opens up markets where the battery weight, size and safety are essential factors, including automotive and aerospace, and domestic and commercial buildings, and grid-scale energy storage.

Dr Chao said although there were other Zn-Mn batteries on the market such as the dry cell, they were not rechargeable or recyclable and did not present high-energy density due to a different chemical reaction mechanism.

“I can imagine this battery being used on all vehicle types from small scooters to even diesel electric trains. Also in homes that need batteries to store solar power, or even large solar/wind farms,” he said.

“With more sustainable energy being produced – such as through wind and solar farms – storing this energy in batteries in a safe, non-expensive and environmentally sound way is becoming more urgent but current battery materials – including lithium, lead and cadmium – are expensive, hazardous and toxic.

“Our new electrolytic battery technology uses the non-toxic zinc and manganese and incombustible aqueous electrolyte to produce a battery with a high energy density.”

Dr Chao and Professor Qiao began working on the project in South Australia about 12 months ago and patented the technology at the beginning of this year.

Chinese battery manufacturer Zhuoyue Power New Energy Ltd, whose current batteries are lead-based, has committed $1 million to develop the new technology.

The ongoing research work and initial product development will be conducted in Adelaide with manufacturing expected to take place in Australia and China.

Dr Chao said the project would combine the new electrolytic battery technology and the company’s battery assembling technology.

“In addition, the battery uses basic materials and simple manufacturing processes so will be much cheaper to produce and easier to recycle than existing batteries of comparable energy density,” Dr Chao said.

Dr Chao obtained his PhD from Nanyang Technological University, Singapore, and worked as a researcher at University of California, Los Angeles, before joining the University of Adelaide in South Australia last year.

South Australia is home to the world’s largest lithium-ion battery at Neoen’s Hornsdale Wind Farm in the state’s Mid North. It is also looming as a hub for electric vehicles and hosts the World Solar Challenge, the world’s most famous solar car race.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: rockrat on November 11, 2019, 06:57:30 PM
This new battery technology could be a big game changer...


South Australian researchers from the University of Adelaide have secured an A$1 million research contract with a Chinese battery manufacturer to develop the new technology and bring it to market within 12 months.

The patented design uses non-toxic zinc and manganese, two metals that are abundant in Australia, and incombustible aqueous electrolyte to produce a battery with a high-energy density.

The researchers estimate the cost of this new electrolytic Zn–Mn battery to be less than US$ 10 per kWh compared with US$ 300 per kWh for current Li-ion batteries, US$ 72 per kWh for Ni–Fe batteries and US$ 48 per kWh for Lead–acid batteries.

The battery is designed by Dr Dongliang Chao and Professor Shi-Zhang Qiao from the University of Adelaide’s School of Chemical Engineering and Advanced Materials.

The high-energy, safe battery opens up markets where the battery weight, size and safety are essential factors, including automotive and aerospace, and domestic and commercial buildings, and grid-scale energy storage.

Dr Chao said although there were other Zn-Mn batteries on the market such as the dry cell, they were not rechargeable or recyclable and did not present high-energy density due to a different chemical reaction mechanism.

“I can imagine this battery being used on all vehicle types from small scooters to even diesel electric trains. Also in homes that need batteries to store solar power, or even large solar/wind farms,” he said.

“With more sustainable energy being produced – such as through wind and solar farms – storing this energy in batteries in a safe, non-expensive and environmentally sound way is becoming more urgent but current battery materials – including lithium, lead and cadmium – are expensive, hazardous and toxic.

“Our new electrolytic battery technology uses the non-toxic zinc and manganese and incombustible aqueous electrolyte to produce a battery with a high energy density.”

Dr Chao and Professor Qiao began working on the project in South Australia about 12 months ago and patented the technology at the beginning of this year.

Chinese battery manufacturer Zhuoyue Power New Energy Ltd, whose current batteries are lead-based, has committed $1 million to develop the new technology.

The ongoing research work and initial product development will be conducted in Adelaide with manufacturing expected to take place in Australia and China.

Dr Chao said the project would combine the new electrolytic battery technology and the company’s battery assembling technology.

“In addition, the battery uses basic materials and simple manufacturing processes so will be much cheaper to produce and easier to recycle than existing batteries of comparable energy density,” Dr Chao said.

Dr Chao obtained his PhD from Nanyang Technological University, Singapore, and worked as a researcher at University of California, Los Angeles, before joining the University of Adelaide in South Australia last year.

South Australia is home to the world’s largest lithium-ion battery at Neoen’s Hornsdale Wind Farm in the state’s Mid North. It is also looming as a hub for electric vehicles and hosts the World Solar Challenge, the world’s most famous solar car race.
Just another example of Australia selling it’s assets cheaply to the Chinese. Assuming there’s some credibility to the technology I’d be happy to see the government spend a million on this in the name of climate change.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on November 11, 2019, 07:14:53 PM
Just another example of Australia selling it’s assets cheaply to the Chinese. Assuming there’s some credibility to the technology I’d be happy to see the government spend a million on this in the name of climate change.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

How the hell in this day and age can a bloody govt. not back the research and if proven lead by example and completely manufacture and distribute the batteries here in Oz.  Our fed govt is just a bloody joke.  I read about this technology quite a while ago and it seemed credible at the time. Hopefully it goes ahead as a winner.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on November 11, 2019, 09:34:27 PM
I'll believe it when it comes to market, I have read too many times of the latest wonder power generation device/ battery chemistry etc that is going to be a game-changer that hasn't eventuated.

Having said that, one day one of them will come to fruition and will make some people very rich and a Googleplex times more difference to the environment than someone supergluing themself to a road ever did. 
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Rodt on November 25, 2019, 11:36:58 AM
The new Tesla Cybertruck. Bloody hell it is ugly

https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/tesla-cybertruck-revealed-are-we-being-trolled/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BREAKING%3A+Ooh+my+Gawd%2C+Tesla+just+launched+Cybertruck+4X4&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+-+Tesla+4X4 (https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/tesla-cybertruck-revealed-are-we-being-trolled/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BREAKING%3A+Ooh+my+Gawd%2C+Tesla+just+launched+Cybertruck+4X4&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+-+Tesla+4X4)

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Hoyks on November 25, 2019, 01:03:43 PM
The new Tesla Cybertruck. Bloody hell it is ugly

https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/tesla-cybertruck-revealed-are-we-being-trolled/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BREAKING%3A+Ooh+my+Gawd%2C+Tesla+just+launched+Cybertruck+4X4&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+-+Tesla+4X4 (https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/tesla-cybertruck-revealed-are-we-being-trolled/?utm_source=ActiveCampaign&utm_medium=email&utm_content=BREAKING%3A+Ooh+my+Gawd%2C+Tesla+just+launched+Cybertruck+4X4&utm_campaign=Unsealed+4X4+-+Tesla+4X4)

Not exactly masses of headroom in the back. I don't know how it would go with kids with those cut windows either.

All they'd see is the window sill and sky.
I hope the interior is water resistant and wipes clean.
(https://www.unsealed4x4.com.au/wp-content/uploads/Cybertruck-Interior.jpg)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on November 25, 2019, 01:46:26 PM
Quote from: Hoyks
Not exactly masses of headroom in the back. I don't know how it would go with kids with those cut windows either.

All they'd see is the window sill and sky.
I hope the interior is water resistant and wipes clean.

ahhh its fine, he already has 185,000 orders for em.. with a $1.00 deposit LMAO
Might order one too so I can say Im with the cool people.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: briann532 on November 25, 2019, 06:34:53 PM
Geez, I'd hate to headbutt that dash in an acco.

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Hoyks on November 25, 2019, 06:50:08 PM
ahhh its fine, he already has 185,000 orders for em.. with a $1.00 deposit LMAO
Might order one too so I can say Im with the cool people.

With that kind of backing, he should be able to make another 2 of them!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on November 25, 2019, 07:23:17 PM
ahhh its fine, he already has 185,000 orders for em.. with a $1.00 deposit LMAO
Might order one too so I can say Im with the cool people.

That was $1000...refundable if Shit hits the fan..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: DandyD on November 26, 2019, 12:59:47 AM
Tesla Model X towing a 2000 lb camper trailer long distance...

Teslas CAN'T Tow Across Country — Watch Us Try and FAIL! | Adventure X Ep.7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjklex38lkQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjklex38lkQ)

At least, that was the intention.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on November 26, 2019, 09:09:34 AM
Thanks DD,
They reckon they have distances  that have nothing out there and its undoable when towing, with a population of 350 million people ..
Try 25 million people spread out in  the same space .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on November 26, 2019, 09:47:50 AM
Quote from: Bigfish
That was $1000...refundable if Shit hits the fan..
yep big change from the 1000 for his cars, to $1 for this hideous thing LOL wonder what supply would be like...
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: shanegtr on November 26, 2019, 09:49:34 AM
All electric 70 series, apparently the electric drive system can be retrofitted to existing vehicles? It's built specifically for mine operations, but who knows ? - https://youtu.be/tVhquG_rCsA (https://youtu.be/tVhquG_rCsA) being done by an Aussie company in WA - https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/ (https://www.voltra.net.au/ecruiser/)

I still electric vehicles only being practical in an urban or controlled industrial environment though, due to the problems with remote charging though?
I think those electric 70 series will make a lot of sense in under ground mines - especially since diesel particulate emissions are carcinogenic and are particularly concentrated underground.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on November 27, 2019, 09:44:15 AM
Or to put it another way ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYRhaOd1PE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWYRhaOd1PE)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on November 27, 2019, 11:02:40 AM
Ok ok, Id have one ... There ya go, you heard Edz said he'd have an EV ... Though there would have to be a change to the bodywork / seating for me ..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: plusnq on November 27, 2019, 11:42:03 AM
Ok ok, Id have one ... There ya go, you heard Edz said he'd have an EV ... Though there would have to be a change to the bodywork / seating for me ..

That would be fun
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on November 27, 2019, 12:14:03 PM
Ok ok, Id have one ... There ya go, you heard Edz said he'd have an EV ... Though there would have to be a change to the bodywork / seating for me ..
like this? Aussie made too :P
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-ZYBLTq2PGjU/Us_qRW73hPI/AAAAAAAB0d8/FexnBrEmjOQ/s800/4433a0fe-1353-438a-8af0-10df9612d70c-IMC-408F1200702.jpg)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: glenm64 on November 27, 2019, 04:56:25 PM
Rimac Concept One.
Theres a Concept Two out soon too

https://youtu.be/eT7KKxoAvvk
https://youtu.be/iCd32Eiuxak

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on November 29, 2019, 07:55:33 AM
This guy is a self made multy milionaire..    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNkJCEtaYDQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNkJCEtaYDQ)                                                                        His interesting take on the Tesla Truck https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s29pVRtyLJA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s29pVRtyLJA)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on December 01, 2019, 03:27:49 PM
Quick, get your name down! Only $150 deposit needed ;D

https://www.caradvice.com.au/811100/its-official-tesla-cybertruck-now-on-sale-in-australia/ (https://www.caradvice.com.au/811100/its-official-tesla-cybertruck-now-on-sale-in-australia/)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on December 10, 2019, 11:21:50 PM
It’s on the streets....

(https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/12/Tesla-Cybertruck-accelerate-elon-musk.jpg?w=1024&quality=82&strip=all&ssl=1)

 https://electrek.co/2019/12/10/tesla-cybertruck-prototype-accelerate-video/ (https://electrek.co/2019/12/10/tesla-cybertruck-prototype-accelerate-video/)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: DandyD on December 10, 2019, 11:57:25 PM
It’s on the streets....

On the wrong side of the road.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on December 11, 2019, 06:04:07 AM
It will change a hell of a lot before it actually becomes a road registered vehicle...I reckon it has potential though.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on December 11, 2019, 09:16:26 AM
Quote from: Pete79
It’s on the streets....
Its on the traffic sign  :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/video-elon-musk-hits-traffic-sign-tesla-cybertruck-malibu-2019-12 (https://www.businessinsider.com.au/video-elon-musk-hits-traffic-sign-tesla-cybertruck-malibu-2019-12)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on December 12, 2019, 12:02:35 PM
Worlds first commercial all electric plane takes off...

Will only get better..

https://newatlas.com/aircraft/worlds-first-all-electric-commercial-aircraft-harbour-air/?fbclid=IwAR3ro0XrJX_fclhwp0Xr8rtY_SAiceBVxC7bR8IXgKPfCofxsrBnSi9YVDM
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on December 12, 2019, 12:58:37 PM
Worlds first commercial all electric plane takes off...

Will only get better..

https://newatlas.com/aircraft/worlds-first-all-electric-commercial-aircraft-harbour-air/?fbclid=IwAR3ro0XrJX_fclhwp0Xr8rtY_SAiceBVxC7bR8IXgKPfCofxsrBnSi9YVDM
pass..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 12, 2019, 01:36:51 PM
Harbour Air reckon 50 > 80% lower operating costs .. Will equal cheaper seating ticket prices for flying .. Next breath ...
The engine maker has to get the Electric motor  Certified and its systems yet with Transport Canada  [ TC has NO Electric aircraft regulations to use as guide lines on Electric flight certification ] , we think that might take about two to three years, then the Aircraft will have to be approved  to use this power plant .  ;D
160 Km maximum operating range, They dont say what payload it will be able to carry .

 A Normal fuel powered DHC-2 Beaver  can carry 953 Kg of payload..    1 x crew/   6 x passengers / cargo   ..
Normal range is 730 Km
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on December 12, 2019, 05:51:10 PM


 A Normal fuel powered DHC-2 Beaver  can carry 953 Kg of payload..    1 x crew/   6 x passengers / cargo   ..
Normal range is 730 Km

BUT...it's green !!

And to be able to do a return trip, range one way would be approx 50 klms, seeing as they need to have a safety margin with fuel ( battery ).....may as well use a canoe !!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 12, 2019, 06:27:01 PM
I'm gathering, where these guys operate around the lakes of the area ..
The range isnt a big issue .. Lots and lots of short haul hops .. Read somewhere they moved roughly 500, 000 people last year with their fleet of 50+ aircraft .. Thats big numbers ..
So for them Electric, If and when its certified will be a big bonus $$ wise .. Would be interesting to see if that range was at a normal load out weight ..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on December 12, 2019, 08:28:44 PM

The range isnt a big issue .. Lots and lots of short haul hops ..

I'm thinking short haul in a plane would be a bit longer than 50K's.

Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on December 12, 2019, 08:57:08 PM
I'm thinking short haul in a plane would be a bit longer than 50K's.

Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.
Looking at all of their schedules, the vast majority of them are 20 minute flights.

Only 2 destinations are over an hour flight times (the longest being 1hr 10min).

Sounds like these planes are a pretty good solution for a company like that doing super short flights over a lake.
Savings in operating costs would allow for investment in a bigger fleet, freeing up some time to recharge throughout the day.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 12, 2019, 09:03:39 PM
Company quote ::
  Harbour currently has 14 six-passenger DHC-2 Beaver aircraft, many of which are equipped with Pratt & Whitney PT-6A turbine engines that burn about $300 worth of jet A fuel per hour. By contrast, the eBeaver packs enough battery life to fly about 100 miles at a cost of around $10 to $20 worth of electricity.

E-planes have a very limited range compared to ICE-powered models because lithium-ion batteries have less than 5 percent the energy density of gasoline or jet fuel. However, 100 miles is enough for many of the short seaplane hops around Vancouver's lower mainland. The distance between Vancouver and British Columbia capital Victoria (downtown to downtown) is 58 miles and takes about 30 minutes by plane, while the same trip on a ferry can run over four hours including driving time and waiting. (Also, as your author can attest from brutal experience, the flight is a lot less boring.)

Despite the range challenges, electric planes have big advantages over ICE-powered models. That includes lower maintenance and operating costs, no need for fueling infrastructure (other than chargers) and easier boarding on local routes. "We are proving that low-cost, environmentally friendly, commercial electric air travel can be a reality in the very near future," said Ganzarski.
End Quote ::: 
Be interesting to see how long a recharge / top up would take . Some places they would go to I reckon that would have be a diesel gen set . ;D
###   FOUND IT ###
 He expects that the MagniX installation in the Otters will give the planes at least 30 minutes of flying time. Harbour Air operates its flights under visual flight rules (VFR) regulations, which will require an additional 30-minute battery reserve.

It’ll be a while until the operational procedures and infrastructure requirements are worked out, but McDougall has been told by the propulsion system’s engineering team that recharging will be “a minute for a minute. Half an hour flight, half an hour recharge. Don’t forget you’re not charging the full battery, you still have the 30-minute reserve in the battery, so you’re going to be recharging from half.”
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on December 13, 2019, 07:57:55 AM
Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.

But if you work on land, taxi in, the first thing that happens is hook up the charger / gen set, then unload passengers & cargo for this stop, followed by new one's on, I'd reckon you'd have at least 30 minutes charge time & probably closer to 1 hour for every stop.

Do that 3 - 4 times during the day, then get a full recharge at night & it should work ???
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pottsy on December 13, 2019, 12:41:22 PM
But if you work on land, taxi in, the first thing that happens is hook up the charger / gen set, then unload passengers & cargo for this stop, followed by new one's on, I'd reckon you'd have at least 30 minutes charge time & probably closer to 1 hour for every stop.

Do that 3 - 4 times during the day, then get a full recharge at night & it should work ???

When I fly I like to hear the noise of the props or jet, somewhat reassuring that things are working, does an electric plane make noise or is it like a Prius, silent?
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 13, 2019, 02:36:42 PM
Have listen  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjsKq5Bf1Dk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjsKq5Bf1Dk)    ..... This was interesting .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CS3isCH4bk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CS3isCH4bk)                                                                          Oooppps recharged by a diesel genny well kind of .. ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on December 13, 2019, 07:05:54 PM
When I fly I like to hear the noise of the props or jet, somewhat reassuring that things are working, does an electric plane make noise or is it like a Prius, silent?

Have a listen to the vid......a propeller going round at a hundred miles an hour still makes a lot of noise !!  ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on December 13, 2019, 07:15:02 PM
Fair bit of Realestate on those wings for some solar panels too.. ;)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: bmwfreak on December 13, 2019, 08:46:05 PM

Then after each flight, the battery needs changing....not economical to have a plane sitting there charging.

Design the planes with a removable battery sled. Arrive at destination, slide out battery sled and replace with fully charged one. Multiple battery packs rather than multiple planes. Down time would be minimal.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 13, 2019, 10:25:23 PM
The light two seater in the link above has two 10 Kw batteries each take about 5 minutes to remove / replace .. Give a Maximum  of two hours flight time till flat . Given weather and winds flight times with safety margins could be just over the hour .
Flight regulations .
 "Fuel and oil supply / power "  requirements: For IFR [ Instrument flight rules ]  enough fuel to reach destination, then alternate (if required), plus 45 minutes. For day VFR [ Visual Flight Rules ] enough fuel to reach destination plus 30 minutes. For night VFR, enough fuel to reach destination plus 45 minutes..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on December 15, 2019, 09:38:00 PM
One of the favorite arguments from the anti EV crowd is about batteries needing to be replaced long before the vehicle reaches end of life.

Well looks like that’s another one we can throw on the big smoking pile of untruths about alternative industries and renewables.

“All batteries lose some storage capacity over time. But how might that degradation affect your driving range a few years down the line? To help answer that question, we can now look to Geotab, a leading telematics-fleet-management company with access to a lot of EVs. Lo and behold, the losses are minor.

Geotab created its so-called EV Battery Degradation Tool by pulling data directly from the 6,300 EVs from its fleets. What’s super-cool is the interactive nature of the tool, allowing users to drill down to 21 specific electric models.

You can use the tool to slice and dice the data for yourself;
https://storage.googleapis.com/geotab-sandbox/ev-battery-degradation/index.html (https://storage.googleapis.com/geotab-sandbox/ev-battery-degradation/index.html)

In June 2018, Geotab acquired FleetCarma, a forerunner in providing technology support the use of EVs in fleets.

Here’s a quick rundown of what the data revealed:

* If current degradation rates are maintained, the vast majority of batteries will outlast the usable life of the vehicle.

* The average decline in energy storage is 2.3% per year. For a 150-mile EV, you’re likely to lose 17 miles of accessible range after five years.
* EV batteries decline in a non-linear fashion. There’s an early drop, but the rate of decline slows down in subsequent years.
* Liquid-cooled batteries decline slower than air-cooled packs. Geotab saw that a 2015 Tesla Model S with liquid cooling had an average annual degradation rate of 2.3%, compared to an air-cooled 2015 Nissan Leaf’s rate of 4.2%.
* Battery-powered vehicles that have bigger state-of-charge buffers fare better. In other words, some carmakers use a smaller percentage of the battery’s capacity, which reduces usable range. But the conservative approach slows down the degradation rate, most notably in early versions of the Chevrolet Volt plug-in hybrid.
* Higher vehicle use does not necessarily equal higher battery degradation.
* Vehicles driven in hot temperatures show a faster decline in battery health.
* The use of DC fast-chargers speeds up the process of degradation, but there’s not much difference in battery health based on frequent use of Level 1 versus Leve 2 charging. Losses that happen with frequent DC charging are made worse in hot climates.”
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on December 16, 2019, 05:38:05 AM
These same arguments could be said about batteries that RV's use.........but we all know it's very rare to get 10yrs or more out of a battery.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on December 16, 2019, 06:06:31 AM
Quickly turnout to be a for and against renewable discussion

Anyway, I had my Tesla Model 3 for two months and it is great.
Other than planning your trips, it is the same as any new sports car - full of gadgets and tech stuff.
Performance is second to none - 3.2s to 100km/hr
When I miss the sound of a big engine, I just start and drive my Landcruiser 76!


Link below comparison between a BMW M3 vs Tesla Model 3 Performance
BMW cost more and have that ongoing petrol cost.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DSRWKxytW40
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on December 16, 2019, 06:47:00 AM
We are all assuming that the lithium batteries these planes use are going to be the current generation of lithium.  Science is playing a huge behind the scenes game developing batteries that will easily double the time and power output of the current generation.  They also dont have to be lithium. Have read of other materials being used with outstanding results. Renewable energy science is raging ahead. .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on December 16, 2019, 06:51:31 AM
These same arguments could be said about batteries that RV's use.........but we all know it's very rare to get 10yrs or more out of a battery.

I normally get 7 years out of my dumb Fullriver agm,s.  However RV,s do not have very stringent and specific maintenance schedules like aircraft do.  I,d doubt that the batteries would be just left to sit and be charged every now and again without a critical inspection regularly and extensive..  Like many parts of an aircraft they would probably be changed after so many hours..  The batteries will get smaller , more powerful and longer lasting..I,m sure.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 16, 2019, 07:23:37 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjqYWQsSyQ4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjqYWQsSyQ4)   might be just a bit short on range for Australian and countries with long distance needs .
Title: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on December 16, 2019, 07:37:09 AM
We are all assuming that the lithium batteries these planes use are going to be the current generation of lithium.  Science is playing a huge behind the scenes game developing batteries that will easily double the time and power output of the current generation.  They also dont have to be lithium. Have read of other materials being used with outstanding results. Renewable energy science is raging ahead. .
Not only science, but there are many famous billionaires also playing around behind the scenes to bring us even more variety in battery technology.

In October of this year, ESS, a manufacturer of low-cost, long-duration, iron-flow batteries for the global renewable energy infrastructure, secured $30 million in a Series C investment round from Breakthrough Energy Ventures, the group of private investors led by Bill Gates and fellow billionaires Jeff Bezos, Michael Bloomberg, Richard Branson and Jack Ma, among others.

Iron flow batteries (https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/10/new-generation-flow-batteries-could-eventually-sustain-grid-powered-sun-and-wind) are specifically for large scale electricity projects, and soon that old “when the sun isn’t shining and wind isn’t blowing” argument that has been posted several times in here will also be mute.

It’s a pretty simple concept, just need some iron and a couple of tanks.
I’m pretty sure Australia has a little bit of iron and a few people that can make tanks.

The only thing we’re missing is some politicians with the balls to stand up to the shouting deniers that are surrounding them right now. And have the guts to set us up to be a powerhouse of the future by building a manufacturing industry for renewable technologies.
But apparently to do anything that even remotely looks like your helping renewables means your accepting that climate change is actually happening. And as we all know as soon as a prime minister admits that, they get replaced by the next puppet pretty quickly.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on December 16, 2019, 09:27:45 AM
Funny you should mention storage tanks.  With all the disasters happening around Australia due to water supply and quality I would have expected the state and federal governments to mandate that all new houses have to have a large water tank installed to catch rain water (when and if it rains!).  Surely several plastic recycling plants can be set up to use the waste plastic and make these tanks!  Many tens of thousands of tanks would be needed and these should be backed by governments. Set up in regional areas of the country these plants would create employment, reduce rubbish, save water and maybe keep regional areas from going under.  So what if the government has to subsidise this industry until it stands on its own two feet. It seems to me we pay many thousands of government employees whose performance it crap when it comes to putting Australia first.  As has been said though....The current government has no balls whatsoever and before the next election we need a big change of heart and ideologies before any major party should be voted in. Bucketful of prayers and hope does f all for anyone!!
The country has gone passed the drought issue.  We are in a disaster scenario.  scomo....fiddled while Oz burnt..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 16, 2019, 10:01:52 AM
Water Storage tanks are already in place in  country builds, that I know of .. My SIL and the others in her village have to have a dedicated 10.000 Lt fire fighting tank from memory .. It may be more but 10.000 Lt  sticks in my mind .
Which is a pain to have sitting there when you are virtualy out of drinking water and not allowed to touch the fire tank..
Imagine dying of thirst / cant afford water and having to look at an ice cold  10.000 lt tank full .
My brother put in over 40.000 gallons of tankage before he died and even thats nearly run dry with frugal water usage by my SIL . Bar the fire tank .
New build houses around here must have 5000 Lt water tanks for toilet / garden and general water use .
All coastal storm water run off should be piped to dams and treated for uses other than drinking water too, instead of into the rivers / oceans ..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tryagain on December 16, 2019, 03:33:38 PM
The current government has no balls whatsoever and before the next election we need a big change of heart and ideologies before any major party should be voted in. Bucketful of prayers and hope does f all for anyone!!
The country has gone passed the drought issue.  We are in a disaster scenario.  scomo....fiddled while Oz burnt..

This is a good read in my opinion https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/joe-hildebrand-whos-really-to-blame-for-climate-failure/news-story/8be82b54fac3cd714f62b956764d99bb (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/joe-hildebrand-whos-really-to-blame-for-climate-failure/news-story/8be82b54fac3cd714f62b956764d99bb)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on December 16, 2019, 04:15:06 PM
This is a good read in my opinion https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/joe-hildebrand-whos-really-to-blame-for-climate-failure/news-story/8be82b54fac3cd714f62b956764d99bb (https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/joe-hildebrand-whos-really-to-blame-for-climate-failure/news-story/8be82b54fac3cd714f62b956764d99bb)

Good article that makes sense.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on December 16, 2019, 08:37:17 PM
Funny you should mention storage tanks.  With all the disasters happening around Australia due to water supply and quality I would have expected the state and federal governments to mandate that all new houses have to have a large water tank installed to catch rain water (when and if it rains!). 

All new houses around here (central coast nsw ) are compulsory. A lot of other council areas probably are too ??
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Rodt on December 17, 2019, 05:55:35 AM
All new houses around here (central coast nsw ) are compulsory. A lot of other council areas probably are too ??

Shh Gronk as that means that not everything is the governments fault  :cheers:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on December 17, 2019, 06:56:49 AM
* Vehicles driven in hot temperatures show a faster decline in battery health.
* Losses that happen with frequent DC charging are made worse in hot climates.”

Interesting, thanks Pete.

I wonder what they call "hot" - 25 / 30 / 40C ???
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 17, 2019, 07:33:02 AM
Seeing as most of these Electric thingo's are Europe based, Id say they could be talking around the 25*C marks .. From all the types from over there Ive spoken too, that temp seems to be regarded as pretty hot .
Guess thats where the battery cooling system comes into play, though that will use more battery power and reduce range ... They are learning everything is a trade off  with limited power / range of a battery set up, until they can get more energy density from the batteries its going to be a struggle .  .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on December 17, 2019, 07:48:32 AM
Interesting, thanks Pete.

I wonder what they call "hot" - 25 / 30 / 40C ???

I think hot would be in relation to the temp under the bonnet for your normal wet cell battery.  The lithium based ones used in most vehicles are well shielded and ventilated.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: KeithB on December 17, 2019, 09:32:41 AM
The batteries in Teslas are liquid cooled.
K
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 17, 2019, 04:59:59 PM
Well here you go .. A caravan that you can tow behind the Tesla Truck .  You might even be able to reverse power the truck to use the vans battery for some extra range while towing and recharge on the go with the Solar ... https://www.e-rv.com.au/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA89zvBRDoARIsAOIePbD-bIPA9CZAiUeJWk9elNed3n5t3aniyd-V_oYt0d57lrNfrSM0PVkaAjXZEALw_wcB (https://www.e-rv.com.au/?gclid=Cj0KCQiA89zvBRDoARIsAOIePbD-bIPA9CZAiUeJWk9elNed3n5t3aniyd-V_oYt0d57lrNfrSM0PVkaAjXZEALw_wcB) ..
If they were truly serious about being off grid, they would have a drinking  water purifier / maker built in too ..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQCsWucaVio (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQCsWucaVio) .
I do wish all these Hype " Its Totaly Green " and saving the Planet types, would realise how the factories / transport that built most every part of these things has used fossil fuels to  some extent  to do it ..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on December 17, 2019, 05:46:40 PM
A lot of shires discourage water tanks as you do not buy water off them and it brings mossies once in disrepair, My mate had to have a 10,000 gallon tank on his new house for fire fighting only, I am all for new technology as long as it is affordable, and yes I think Climate change is BS as my family have been farmers and fishermen for 3 generations and its just the planet doing its thing , but coal and our natural resources will run out one day so got to have something for the future. Craig   
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on December 17, 2019, 07:22:29 PM
A lot of shires discourage water tanks as you do not buy water off them

Around our area 10 yrs ago, they made residential houses remove water tanks.
10 yrs later, they made them compulsory for all new houses.

Councils are just like govt departments, they have no idea how to run an organisation..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: briann532 on December 17, 2019, 08:09:41 PM
Around our area 10 yrs ago, they made residential houses remove water tanks.
10 yrs later, they made them compulsory for all new houses.

Councils are just like govt departments, they have no idea how to run an organisation..

Couldn't agree more!!!
Imagine if they had to work in the private sector.
Unemployment would go up for sure.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on December 26, 2019, 01:24:14 PM
Why on earth would anyone want an electric 4wd with a separate motor on each wheel??
We all know that tank turns are so overrated anyways..... ;)

 https://youtu.be/yzwM8KE2L3I (https://youtu.be/yzwM8KE2L3I)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on December 26, 2019, 02:34:38 PM
Why on earth would anyone want an electric car
fixed for you.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on December 26, 2019, 08:57:17 PM
fixed for you.
754 hp / 562 kw
826 lb-ft / 1220 Nm of torque 
0 - 100 in 3 seconds
Individual drive on each wheel and no diffs in the way give 360mm of ground clearance, plus airbag suspension to raise and lower as required.

Yes please...!!! ;D



Makes the pootrol’s 174hp & 540Nm look like the dinosaur that it is...
But on the bright side, even the dinosaurs evolved into chickens eventually.
You never know your luck, maybe your troll will be the chicken of the future... ;D :cheers:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on December 26, 2019, 09:44:14 PM
754 hp / 562 kw
826 lb-ft / 1220 Nm of torque 
0 - 100 in 3 seconds
Individual drive on each wheel and no diffs in the way give 360mm of ground clearance, plus airbag suspension to raise and lower as required.

Yes please...!!! ;D

And when out bush and the battery goes flat, you hope it isn't under trees so the solar panel on the roof can recharge it.....in approx 5 hrs !!  ;D



Makes the pootrol’s 174hp & 540Nm look like the dinosaur that it is...
But on the bright side, even the dinosaurs evolved into chickens eventually.
You never know your luck, maybe your troll will be the chicken of the future... ;D :cheers:
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Pete79 on December 26, 2019, 10:09:01 PM
5 hours to recharge for free sounds pretty good....

And what’s the distilling time to brew up a batch of diesel in the bush when the cruiser has been chewing 25L/100k on soft sand and you haven’t made it to the next fuel station?? ;) :P
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on December 26, 2019, 10:26:45 PM
5 hours to recharge for free sounds pretty good....



Only if you went wheeling in the morning !!  ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on December 27, 2019, 08:39:12 AM
Only if you went wheeling in the morning !!  ;D

Hello, Boss ???

Sorry, I'm having car problems. I'm going to have stay camped out here on the side of this Creek for another couple of days to get enough power back in the car to make it home.

See you no later than Wednesday or Thursday though ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 27, 2019, 02:53:08 PM
Can see it now  sky high battered  lifted Rivian's with 35's and P plates [ Would they even be allowed to drive them with 700 + HP  ??? ] replacing patrols and Rangers .
Home made bar work and a gazillion light bars, doing Tank turns in every town, Brings a whole new meaning  to " Circle Work  "  for the country kids .. Or doing O'ies .. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tombie on December 27, 2019, 02:57:13 PM
At +$130k for a Rivian I don’t think the market will flood with P plates any time soon...


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on December 29, 2019, 09:37:14 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivLmUi43vyw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivLmUi43vyw)    ;D ;D    Interesting .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Nifty1 on January 04, 2020, 08:54:19 AM
Some wag commented regarding the 2 hour queues to get petrol to evacuate the South Coast - imagine the shambles if they all then took 2 hours to recharge...
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on January 04, 2020, 09:21:03 AM
Ahhh but the power grids in these towns are down due to the fires in most places or been shutdown for safety ......
 Does your Tesla or EV take AAA ...AA .... Or 9V batteries    ?  sir / madam ..  :D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on January 04, 2020, 11:54:17 AM
But... (from another forum 5pm yesterday)

"only one servo at Narooma has fuel, and only unleaded, no diesel available so a lot of tourists are stranded"
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Paddler Ed on January 04, 2020, 12:01:07 PM
But... (from another forum 5pm yesterday)

"only one servo at Narooma has fuel, and only unleaded, no diesel available so a lot of tourists are stranded"

The servo might have one diesel tank, but have 3 petrol tanks... At times I'm glad my 80 is petrol for that sort of thing... the diesel 45 ute? Well, that runs on cooking oil at a push, and 20 litres of that would get me nearly 200kms.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tombie on January 04, 2020, 12:22:58 PM
Ahhh but the power grids in these towns are down due to the fires in most places or been shutdown for safety ......
 Does your Tesla or EV take AAA ...AA .... Or 9V batteries    ?  sir / madam ..  :D

Does the burnt down servo in your town pump diesel or petrol?

Solar


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tombie on January 04, 2020, 12:26:36 PM
Some wag commented regarding the 2 hour queues to get petrol to evacuate the South Coast - imagine the shambles if they all then took 2 hours to recharge...

As an example - A Tesla 3 can put 250km range in under 15min.  Hardly a problem.

Also, most EV users will hook up when they get to where they’re staying, so people holidaying will likely have an almost full range vehicle.

How many people get somewhere running sub 1/4 of a tank and park up until they’re ready to go on the next run?


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on January 04, 2020, 03:10:02 PM
As an example - A Tesla 3 can put 250km range in under 15min.  Hardly a problem.



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It is if there is no power.
No power, no petrol pumps and no Tesla either......amazing how we rely on that dirty coal fired power.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on January 04, 2020, 04:30:51 PM
& also reported that no phone or internet = no cards, so cash only :o
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: #jonesy on January 04, 2020, 04:32:00 PM
Old school manual card machines, are they still an option?
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on January 04, 2020, 04:50:27 PM
Old school manual card machines, are they still an option?

i've been to servos that have used them in last few years, when theres a bank outage - which is regularly...
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tombie on January 04, 2020, 08:46:33 PM
It is if there is no power.
No power, no petrol pumps and no Tesla either......amazing how we rely on that dirty coal fired power.

Solar works . If we had an EV we could charge here off PV and Battery.

As I mentioned, you’ll find EV owners don’t run around on the bottom of their “tank” like ICE owners.  All those with EVs that I’ve met are far more diligent.

FYI- That Coal fired power is still more efficient / emissions are lower for the energy required to charge those EVs than the emissions from burning diesel/petrol to power a vehicle.


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on January 21, 2020, 02:18:41 PM
 " Ohh Those  Russians "    ;D ;D       https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKmvhEa8qEo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKmvhEa8qEo)   ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on January 21, 2020, 02:40:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nd-cueVkcY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Nd-cueVkcY)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: MB TD42 on January 21, 2020, 05:16:28 PM
Interesting...New and hybrid electric cars use 4 times the amount of copper a norms generic unit from the 90s needs and has twice the carbon foot print in manufacturing...so many things left out.
Pretty sure we are in short supply of copper as well...great gimic...implications in change over could be 100s of years away realistically...

My 2 cents...

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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: alnjan on January 21, 2020, 06:13:47 PM
May not be a problem in most of Australia, at present.

https://www.disclose.tv/new-test-reveals-electric-cars-are-practically-unusable-in-winter-383233?fbclid=IwAR1zll9-ovNiCXqLO0Dgiv2q1dlKNAs7RptEu646LIiP7ADpQJFbqqo2sw8 (https://www.disclose.tv/new-test-reveals-electric-cars-are-practically-unusable-in-winter-383233?fbclid=IwAR1zll9-ovNiCXqLO0Dgiv2q1dlKNAs7RptEu646LIiP7ADpQJFbqqo2sw8)

"A new comparative test of the car picture shows that electric cars massively lose range in winter. In frosty temperatures, the range of four out of five test candidates dropped to under 70 kilometers, and that of the Renault Zoe to under 60 kilometers.

Due to its enormous battery, only the Tesla Model S was able to reach a range of over 200 kilometers even in winter temperatures, but the luxury car is in a price range (it is available from 78,000 euros) that most drivers simply cannot cope with."
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: MB TD42 on January 21, 2020, 07:31:47 PM
I believe they will need to rethink climate control as well...it would decimate range in high temps...keeping the batteries cool would be the biggest problem on bitumen roads...instant inferno with Lipo examples.

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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: rockrat on January 21, 2020, 08:25:59 PM
All the issues raised re range, cold weather, climate control, copper shortage, etc are all just problems, with as yet unknown or uneconomical solutions.  But those solutions will come and probably quicker than most people think.


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Title: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tombie on January 21, 2020, 08:43:28 PM
I believe they will need to rethink climate control as well...it would decimate range in high temps...keeping the batteries cool would be the biggest problem on bitumen roads...instant inferno with Lipo examples.

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Tesla battery packs are liquid cooled to control battery temp and the vehicles also run a very effective AC.  Plenty of areas in the USA have the same temperatures as here and lots of Tesla getting around without a problem.

I know someone with a Tesla and happily does country runs in 40°c+ without issue and gets close to the advertised range with the cabin nice and cool.

A neat function is to pull up at a shop etc and put the vehicle in Pet mode.
A large sign appears on the screen saying the vehicle is climate controlled and pet is safe - vehicle then sits cooling the cabin.


We ran a comparison of our recent runs back and forth to Adelaide. We’ve done 19 trips in 3 months at over 900km return each.

Fuel cost is about $140 a trip x 19 = $2660.00 in Diesel
If we had used our friends Tesla it would have been $120.00 in electricity.  Each trip would require no more than 15 min at the Charger to easily make the return trip with a good 250km range to spare.


If the tech is this good now; imagine where it will be soon.


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: MB TD42 on January 21, 2020, 09:54:58 PM
Best wishes to the wealthy...were the trips fully loaded...towing?
The other problem is having to change the batteries...2 years was a suggestion...5to 30k for a battery pack?

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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on January 21, 2020, 10:00:06 PM
900 K's round trip...Model S has a max range of 600 K's, so a realistic 500K's.   So a full recharge needed at the 1/2 way point, and without a supercharger, approx 10hrs to charge with a normal power point from 1/2 charged ( which it won't be...more like 3/4 flat )

And the powers that be will soon find a way of charging you more for recharging an electric car than the normal household rate.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tombie on January 21, 2020, 10:06:23 PM
900 K's round trip...Model S has a max range of 600 K's, so a realistic 500K's.   So a full recharge needed at the 1/2 way point, and without a supercharger, approx 10hrs to charge with a normal power point from 1/2 charged ( which it won't be...more like 3/4 flat )

And the powers that be will soon find a way of charging you more for recharging an electric car than the normal household rate.

There’s 6 Supercharger sites on the common routes from here to Adelaide.

Putting enough charge to comfortably return takes about 15m (a coffee stop).


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tombie on January 21, 2020, 10:15:39 PM
Best wishes to the wealthy...were the trips fully loaded...towing?
The other problem is having to change the batteries...2 years was a suggestion...5to 30k for a battery pack?

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Nothing to do with wealth, Patrols weren’t cheap new either.

I’ll pose it to you thus... what’s your vehicle drink towing? Certainly more than when not.  It will all get sorted as the tech matures.

Not sure where you’re getting the battery info from - from Owners forums they’re getting 5 years+ and some serious mileages.  If you compare a new ICE vehicle doing average kilometres... (let’s assume workshop servicing)

$1000 for two full services a year
$3500 in fuel
That alone is $22,500 over 5 years.


Safe travels.


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: MB TD42 on January 21, 2020, 10:52:06 PM
It is to do with weath...by the way for us tradies thats 22k each year...yes that how much It cost to run a sole traders car each year.

Anyways ...our Aussie average income is only around 44k a year... less that 20% of Aussies can afford to purchase a car that cost more than 15k let alone buy a home..replacing 30k worth of batteries every couple of years would hurt...those who can afford are not part of the majority in Australia.

It will start as a privelidge...but who will fund the rest? I should say public transport should be upgraded first...

Removing combustion engines from the commercial transport industry. Rail Truck and public transport sectors first.

One yhing is sure...Plenty to be considered.



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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on January 21, 2020, 10:56:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH7V2tU3iFc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH7V2tU3iFc)  ..
Tow test is interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhX3BmhJXc8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhX3BmhJXc8)   >>>   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVSHIZihESk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVSHIZihESk)  there are a few in this series ..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: #jonesy on January 22, 2020, 05:38:45 AM
I should say public transport should be upgraded first...

Hear that all the time but how? 
Rail can only get so big. Your destination has to be close to the station.
Trams not much better.
Buses take a along time. 
My trip to work is 25 min, as I go in a circle around Melbourne.
Train would be walk to the station 10 min.  Train to Clifton Hill 35 min. Swap trains, 10 minutes and back out on the Mernda line. 35 min.  Walk to work. 10.10 min. Over 1 1/2 hours all going well.
Bus is over 1 hour, plus walking time.

Public transport can't tow my camper.
Cant load a week's shopping onto public transport.
Tradies can't carry tools

Everytime I hear public transport should be improved it sounds like we want other people to use public transport to leave the roads clear for me. 
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on January 22, 2020, 05:44:42 AM
There’s 6 Supercharger sites on the common routes from here to Adelaide.

Putting enough charge to comfortably return takes about 15m (a coffee stop).


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From memory, a supercharger will take approx 30mins, from 1/2 charged, so you'd need 2 of those.
No problem if you don't mind waiting around, but these days it's all about convenience, and electric cars are just not there yet.

I'll wait around for the nuclear fuel cell cars to arrive before I go away from conventional piston engines !!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Harbourmaster on January 22, 2020, 08:45:45 AM
Old school manual card machines, are they still an option?
They weren't when i retired 3 years ago after 22 years in a service station in the mid north of SA Had signs made up to put on every pump & still got people who didn't read them so used to make them come in to explain before we started the pump. could still do amex diners & fuel cards manually.
Also in emergency situations the police could shut us down to save fuel for emergency vehicles, Fire Police Ambulance Hospital staff etc
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on January 22, 2020, 08:56:56 AM
Hear that all the time but how? 
Rail can only get so big. Your destination has to be close to the station.
Trams not much better.
Buses take a along time. 
My trip to work is 25 min, as I go in a circle around Melbourne.
Train would be walk to the station 10 min.  Train to Clifton Hill 35 min. Swap trains, 10 minutes and back out on the Mernda line. 35 min.  Walk to work. 10.10 min. Over 1 1/2 hours all going well.
Bus is over 1 hour, plus walking time.

Public transport can't tow my camper.
Cant load a week's shopping onto public transport.
Tradies can't carry tools

Everytime I hear public transport should be improved it sounds like we want other people to use public transport to leave the roads clear for me.

You are right with PT doesnt go everywhere - but it could be pretty good if it was reliable, safe and clean..  But other countries have safe PT that runs faultless as they have seriously invested year in year out over the last 50 years. Spotless clean safe trains run every 3-4 mins etc...
We havent spent Shit, and its now a multi billion $ problem in every city in AU.
None of our cities were ever planned, they were just "Added to" - most upgrades to freeways seem to come out at the same black spot where everyone crawls.

Roads in AU cities are at gridlock - look at the monash, or eastern, or any in Shitney... or Brissy...

FWIW,
from Franga to Box hill by bus for me would be 2hr 30min, or train into town hour, then train back out hour.. so it wont work for me.. but as you say less on the road, better for me :D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on January 22, 2020, 05:49:05 PM


Roads in AU cities are at gridlock - look at the monash, or eastern, or any in Shitney... or Brissy...



After venturing into Sydney last Saturday ( a rare event ), I was almost going to post up how sorry I felt for city dwellers !!

Ha ha....nah, you all deserve it for living in a sh*t fight...... ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: rockrat on January 22, 2020, 06:26:35 PM
After venturing into Sydney last Saturday ( a rare event ), I was almost going to post up how sorry I felt for city dwellers !!

Ha ha....nah, you all deserve it for living in a sh*t fight...... ;D ;D
Different strokes for different folks. I live less than 5km from the middle of Brisbane city and love it.


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on January 22, 2020, 07:23:54 PM
Different strokes for different folks. I live less than 5km from the middle of Brisbane city and love it.


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Yep, I don't get why people like living in a city.....that's probably why I don't !!   ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on January 25, 2020, 11:42:19 PM
So your handy with DC wiring set ups .. So build your own EV  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKR8Or6Im6w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKR8Or6Im6w)  ..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmqJ6Oruh2A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmqJ6Oruh2A)

Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: bmwfreak on January 26, 2020, 07:16:22 PM
Saw this today at Eat Street, Brisbane (sorry if it has already been posted)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200126/066b1e64f36e1853a95e3d6c6c43c15b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200126/51bea67bd545a9331de735b7e2c0a9fe.jpg)


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: tombie on January 26, 2020, 09:38:34 PM
Very nice. $320k worth of hybrid there...

0-100km/h in 4.4 seconds and 2.4l/100km.


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Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: gronk on January 27, 2020, 05:35:14 PM
Very nice. $320k worth of hybrid there...

0-100km/h in 4.4 seconds and 2.4l/100km.


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Saw a few over in Europe last year.....but for 320K, I'd prefer a screaming V8 sound escaping from the exhaust pipe thanks !!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: PWE on January 27, 2020, 10:41:43 PM
Very nice. $320k worth of hybrid there...

0-100km/h in 4.4 seconds and 2.4l/100km.


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Tesla Model 3 Performance
0-100km/hr in 3.2 seconds and 0l/100km
Cost $100k ish
Single charge 518km
About $30 to fully charge at a Super charger

And yes, the g-force is assume!
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on January 28, 2020, 06:48:54 AM
Saw this today at Eat Street, Brisbane (sorry if it has already been posted)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200126/066b1e64f36e1853a95e3d6c6c43c15b.jpg)(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200126/51bea67bd545a9331de735b7e2c0a9fe.jpg)
one crusing the eastlink lots lately with a 'look at me' attitude holding everyone up in the right lane.
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on January 28, 2020, 08:50:34 AM
one crusing the eastlink lots lately with a 'look at me' attitude holding everyone up in the right lane.

In a Beemer ??? 

No! :o >:D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bird on January 28, 2020, 09:12:58 AM
In a Beemer ??? 

No! :o >:D
(https://i.imgur.com/BWRDoTb.jpg)
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on February 05, 2020, 10:55:27 AM
Yeah I'd have a go .  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1SrE_cBoTc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1SrE_cBoTc) .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on February 11, 2020, 11:46:21 AM
Ever wondered about the self drive feature in wet conditions ..  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCZ56T16wvc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCZ56T16wvc)  dont think I would trust it, but seems to do ok ..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on February 15, 2020, 09:38:14 AM
Well same as cars bikes planes and trucks ...Look out boaties its your turn .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EqUY_MKQsY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EqUY_MKQsY)  Actualy dont mind the use of Electric power for boats .

So thinking out loud .. Being on a boat, it would be easy to augment the battery power with solar,  mount a couple of  ducted  VAWT style wind turbines ..  saltwater / chemical  dc power generator and even a towed hydro DC generator .... Unless you had a major electrical fault you potentialy should never run out of power .
You could never carry enough fuel to give that sort of range if needed short of wind or Nuclear power .
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on February 16, 2020, 07:42:33 AM
Check this one out, Edz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9lGhwyVF6U&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9lGhwyVF6U&feature=youtu.be)

50nm at ~20kn isn't too bad :D

Can't say the same about €245000 though :o :'(
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on March 11, 2020, 09:01:14 AM
https://insideevs.com/news/403281/tesla-model-3-lamborghini-sounds/?fbclid=IwAR0tU2WsL8xPT5Unkao_hcQw965pQIXV9behh6RyPcy23OkSoEx6OGQjtW0 (https://insideevs.com/news/403281/tesla-model-3-lamborghini-sounds/?fbclid=IwAR0tU2WsL8xPT5Unkao_hcQw965pQIXV9behh6RyPcy23OkSoEx6OGQjtW0)  It had to happen  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Spada on March 11, 2020, 11:34:37 AM
https://insideevs.com/news/403281/tesla-model-3-lamborghini-sounds/?fbclid=IwAR0tU2WsL8xPT5Unkao_hcQw965pQIXV9behh6RyPcy23OkSoEx6OGQjtW0 (https://insideevs.com/news/403281/tesla-model-3-lamborghini-sounds/?fbclid=IwAR0tU2WsL8xPT5Unkao_hcQw965pQIXV9behh6RyPcy23OkSoEx6OGQjtW0)  It had to happen  ;D ;D

Cool, wonder if I could fit it to my golf buggy  >:D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: edz on March 11, 2020, 12:20:17 PM
Fit up one of these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9XAC-BvUyo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9XAC-BvUyo) . ;D ;D to run off the speed  controler ..
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Fizzie on March 11, 2020, 02:10:19 PM
& on the subject of Teslas

https://electrek.co/2019/11/30/tesla-model-s-1-million-km/ (https://electrek.co/2019/11/30/tesla-model-s-1-million-km/)

"The most recent battery pack is going on almost half a million kilometers (310,000 miles) with very little battery degradation.

Tesla also finally figure out the problem that would cause issues to the drive unit in early Model S vehicles and now, Gemmingen’s latest drive unit has over 680,000 km on it."

"He (Musk) also added that Tesla is working on a new battery that lasts 1 million miles and it could come out as soon as next year."

Now that sounds like what we all need in our vans / CTs ;D
Title: Re: Interesting read on electric cars
Post by: Bigfish on March 19, 2020, 07:49:29 AM
Case have developed a backhoe using batteries...sounds promising..

https://newatlas.com/automotive/case-electric-backhoe-loader-project-zeus/?fbclid=IwAR2AUidtRqCimShXr83msNdSYUDAhYymG5qYaEqBCKLN-IgwyzqsYNBQQ4o