Sudden Cardiac Arrest - do you know what to do?

[Gandalf the White]

Bear with me while I share a recent story. On New Years Eve last year I was up on Bogong High Plains in the VHC hiking with another myswag gentleman who had to head home for NYE family celebrations. I had decided to stay on as the weather had been great and a couple of other myswaggers were hoping to head my way. I decided to do a short hike up to Roper Lookout then down to the village for a coffee and a bite to eat when my Vic Emergency App went off advising a dry lightning strike in the vicinity. When I checked the location my eyes couldn't believe was I was reading........fire location 'Roper Lookout' this wasn't even an hour after I had been up there.
Now this as many of you may recall was at the same time as the major bushfires were burning along the coast of SE Aus so I decided to put a few contingency and possible evacuation plans together in case I needed to get off the mountain in a hurry. I was waiting to hear from the people heading my way so, as the area I was camping in was further south headed back there to start packing up just in case.
While waiting for the people to contact me or turn up, I must have dozed off (may have been the beer with lunch) and not much later was awoken by a very loud clap of thunder nearby. Now we've all heard thunder overhead, but have to say at this altitude thunder has a whole new sound and ground shaking experience something I'll never forget.  (If you're old enough it reminded me at the time of an old comedy skit by a now disgraced comedian 'It's the Lord, Noah')
Not much after this event and for the first time in 3 days there was smoke in the camp, so I quickly finished packing up and suggested to a few other nearby campers it was possibly a good time for everyone to leave. On the way back through Falls Creek I came across the local policeman who told me there had been several more lightning strikes and multiple fires and they were evacuating and closing the mountain. Up until this time the Bogong High Plains were picturesque with clear blue skies most of the time. I'd also by now received a message that my other myswag friends weren't able to get out of Eden due to bushfire road closures and were as safe as could be so I headed for home.

On the way down the mountain I realised how close I'd come to danger and thought to myself, clearly God (or whomever you may believe in) had deemed today was not my time, and there must be something I'm still meant to do in life. Maybe it had something to do with lightning........

Now as some of you may know, my job was made redundant 3 years ago, (in fact I was told 2 days before the National Meet at Mansfield) and I have remained successfully unemployed with some casual labour & consulting work keeping the bank account topped up, food on the table and cold beer in the fridge, but most importantly healthy & happy in life. So when this event on Bogong occurred I had a sense that 2020 might be the year that life changes (yeah, I know right, let's not talk about the current 2020). So when 2 weeks later I received a call from a person called Guy Leech, apart from the fact it was the real ex Iron Man/Coolangatta Gold/Series 2 Australian Survivor champion Guy Leech I kind of figured this was 'the call I'd been waiting on.

Some of you may know that 4 years ago Guy was out paddling with a mate who suffered a Sudden Cardiac Arrest. The mate 'Chucky' was fit & healthy and not that old and after getting him to shore, called an ambulance and started CPR. The ambulance arrived and they continued CPR & commenced defibrillation while transporting them both to Royal North Shore Hospital. Unfortunately Chucky passed away later that week from complications but it started Guy on a new 'meaning of life' challenge which includes the creation of www.heart180.com.au with a mission to install AED or Defibrillator units within 180seconds of every Australian. 180 seconds is the premium time to start defibrillation if possible and Guy's call to me was to come and help him with his mission.
http://www.guyleech.com.au/my-mission/

Within the space of 8 weeks reaching out to my old business network (and with Covid19 hindering in the background) we've already had a commitment from a major national organisation to install 5,000 new defibrillators across Australia in their businesses over the next 5 years, and recently Guy & Heart180 have launched the neighbourhood defibrillator program with a target of another 50,000 defibrillators in streets, apartments and businesses around Australia ASAP. No easy task as these units currently cost between $2k & $3k for the medical grade units however the street program is designed for a group of neighbours to cofund and locate a defibrillator central to their street.

In researching why any of us would want to be part of this this initiative, the current stats are that there are currently 30,000 out of hospital SCA events every year in Australia. That's close to 100 every day with a current recovery success rate of 6%. The other 94% being someone's loved one, family member or friend.

My reason for starting this thread is twofold.

1 - start a discussion thread to share your SCA story and create awareness that it doesn't matter how fit & healthy you think you might be, SCA events are happening every day around us and form part of the largest human killer event in Australia.

2 - Do you have a defibrillator at your work, in your home or as part of your touring kit and who is trained to use it? 10 years ago a defibrillator unit cost over $10k and were only available through emergency or hospital service with professionally trained team members. Today the technology is such that the cost of these units, while still a considerable amount of money, could be cofunded and shared with a group of neighbours. Or if you are a business are 100% taxable write off as part of your workplace safety kit.

If anyone is interested in finding out more, St John's Ambulance, First Aid Australia & Ambulance Victoria have defibrillator & training programs available. Alternatively you can contact Guy Leech via his website www.guyleech.com.au or call me on 0490705651 (Scott)

p.s. lightning and electricity are one of the best things to get a heart pumping, literally.

[Jillsy]

This is the most awesome idea EVER!!!

Being an Emergency Medical Dispatcher with the Queensland Ambulance Service, I whole heartedly concur that AED's save lives! They really can (and do) make all the difference!

What a fantastic mission!

[D4D]

It's been great to watch this come to life from that first phone call! What an awesome opportunity and fantastic cause.   

[BaseCamp]

Thanks for posting this about SCAs ...
I for one had no idea about it...

Having had a hospital stay for AF at 58yo, it's sobering information...

I just want to make sure that I have understood you correctly...

It's approx 100 SCA events a day - and about 94 people don't make it, they die?  ...(Because they don't get to a defib machine quickly enough?).

(edit)
Just read the heart180 website ...  yes its true, sadly ...

Nearly 100 a day dead from SCAs ...



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[GBC]

I have recently been involved in changing out (maybe 50?) AED's to newer versions for our corporate clients. I don't know what they do with the older units, but it would be worth finding out if it meant that they could be repurposed? The price would be right I'd expect. Maybe worth getting onto facility managers and shopping centres etc to see if you could get your hands on some older units to be tested and sent back out? If this is something you would be interested in, I am happy to at least make some enquiries.

[Mace]

What a great initiative..

I monitor the maintenance and new installs of over 70 AED's across Tasmania.  All of our units are hard wired into our security monitoring system so if the cabinet is opened the control room is notified.  All also have security camera monitoring.

We informally give away our older AED's to community groups when removing from service, after a check out and fitting them with new pads and batteries.  The issue of ongoing maintenance is, however, a big issue.  I budget $100 per year for each AED to cover the cost of battery and pad replacement over these consumables life cycles (two years for Pads, 4 years for batteries).  So, although an AED costs about $2300 now, community groups need to know that maintenance has a cost.  Provision and installation of cabinets and hard wiring also has an additional cost.

A further issue is that of pediatric pads for children.  We provide more expensive Heartstart FRx dual  mode units to facilities where young students (primary and secondary) may be present. Saves the cost of having to provide additional dedicated pediatric pads to the units, and the time involved in swapping them over if required. Buying in a bundle reduces the overall cost however..

https://shop.stjohn.org.au/defibrillator-with-cabinet-frx-saver-bundle?gclid=CjwKCAjwte71BRBCEiwAU_V9h1irgL_7LeuH5DV9RsMEv7oz55AoFCwFzJ5xlfM4TKQIEkOn0edkmBoC8HQQAvD_BwE

Another time consumer is the registration of all units on the National database(s).  I wish this was an easier process online, instead of the current manual form process...

Our removed from service units go to community groups that have a home base, a building that is identifiable to all.

Anyway, again, well done,   

[Fizzie]

The issue of ongoing maintenance is, however, a big issue.

Great idea , but I agree that ongoing costs are going to be an issue.

We've got an AED at our VMR unit, & it got used a couple of years ago, when somebody came running up asking for help as his mate was having a heart attack down on the beach.

Unit kept him alive till Ambo's arrived & all good there , but it was then up to us to replace the pads & so on, as well as the cover plate that gets used as a "pillow" under the patients neck. It apparently went into the ambulance with him & never made it back to us.

Off the top of the head, $2-300 to return it to service, so, until prices come down dramatically, or there's some form of Govt assistance with the idea, I unfortunately don't think it'll go to far

Seem to remember

[gronk]

1 - start a discussion thread to share your SCA story and create awareness that it doesn't matter how fit & healthy you think you might be, SCA events are happening every day around us and form part of the largest human killer event in Australia.

Rather than hope there is an AED hanging around, nearly every person can take steps to minimise their risk.

Rather than give a lesson on healthy eating and ideal weight and fitness levels, especially if you are over 45 yrs old, there are things you can do to identify if you are at risk.
Do a yearly ( or 2 yearly ) stress test.
Keep an eye on blood pressure and cholesterol .
I even had a CT Angiogram done just to alleviate some suspicions......and came back with a 25% blockage of a main heart artery.

If you are a lazy person ( like most of us ), don't get stuck into a strenuous exercise that is out of the usual.....like chopping a big load of wood in the middle of summer, sweating your arse off !!

[Gandalf the White]

Thanks everyone that have commented to date, really appreciated. Greater awareness of SCA's is my main aim here and hopefully the pic I've attached based on Gov stats in Aus will also help. While not professing to know everyone's age on here, I do suspect that many of us and our partners could be in the risk category or when out travelling this great land, come across many others that are.

While I'm currently working specifically with Guy Leech & Heart180, the other organisations I've mentioned are also well known, and professionally capable. I discovered in my recent research that my wife's cousin is heading up a similar program with Ambulance Victoria and had a great chat to him about their experience.

I've attached a link on the AED units Heart180 supply to sites being the Heartsine & Lifepak models. https://heart180.com.au/products/  The one I've arranged now for a few people is the 500P as it's self voice directing including cpr compressions, comes with a 4 year battery warranty and 8 year unit warranty. The replacement battery/pad cartridge when needed is $200.  These units are supplied by Stryker medical here in Aus and are the supplier to most major hospitals and emergency services.

I'm currently talking with several builders and tradespeople about investing in these before 30th June and locating in their Tradie van/ute instead of buying more power tools as a tax deduction and hopefully be in a position to save someone's life in the future.

[Gandalf the White]

Ambulance Victoria, in 2017/18 6,434 cardiac arrest patients across Victoria were attended to – the most cardiac arrest cases ever! The average response time to these medical emergencies by Ambulance Victoria was 7.6 minutes – a significant length of time to not have any medical assistance.

https://www.stjohnvic.com.au/news/defibrillators-in-the-workplace/

[weeds]

Awesome post

I remember watching a programs either about this or something similar.

It was about listing all the AED in you suburb...

What's the best app to download??

I just downloaded St. John first responder and it only allows three states to register AED locations

We are preparing for our two year lap and I've been thinking about carrying an AED, we are only 50yo but figured we may add to our first aid kit. An overkill bit ya never know who you might come Cross.


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[Ultimate Adventures Podcast]

What a great Mission and story. If you would be keen, we will get on our podcast to help spread the word if you would be up for a chat.  Can do that remotely with minimal equipment needed.   PM me if you are interested. 

[Gandalf the White]

Awesome post

I remember watching a programs either about this or something similar.

It was about listing all the AED in you suburb...

What's the best app to download??

I just downloaded St. John first responder and it only allows three states to register AED locations

We are preparing for our two year lap and I've been thinking about carrying an AED, we are only 50yo but figured we may add to our first aid kit. An overkill bit ya never know who you might come Cross.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Thanks, the Good Sam App isn't bad too, but it looks like there's multiple Apps out at the moment. At some stage I'm sure an App will come out that collates all of them into one. Technology & battery life improvements are making AED's very small and transportable today and I'd encourage anyone where possible to include these in their touring kit.

[Fizzie]

At some stage I'm sure an App will come out that collates all of them into one.

Just had a thought , & you & Guy may be the people who are able to make the suggestion to actually make it happen!

People ^^ have mentioned the Emergency+ app, which lot's of us have on our phones already.

When you open it, it shows your co-ordinates, & also your location on a map. That would be an awesome place to display AED locations!

[Jillsy]

People ^^ have mentioned the Emergency+ app, which lot's of us have on our phones already.

When you open it, it shows your co-ordinates, & also your location on a map. That would be an awesome place to display AED locations!

The Emergency + app would be a sensational place for the AED locations to be listed somehow!

[Gandalf the White]

Just had a thought , & you & Guy may be the people who are able to make the suggestion to actually make it happen!

People ^^ have mentioned the Emergency+ app, which lot's of us have on our phones already.

When you open it, it shows your co-ordinates, & also your location on a map. That would be an awesome place to display AED locations!

thnx Fizzie, we have a meeting with an Aus based APP developer this week to discuss👍

[Fizzie]

thnx Fizzie, we have a meeting with an Aus based APP developer this week to discuss👍

Good luck!

[Gandalf the White]

Good luck!

update - initial meet went ok Fizzie, but a bit of work to do for it to be able to advise location and link to emergency services.

For everyone following this thread, here's a 1 minute read for you.  I've had several people outside of here say to me, no issue, won't happen to me.  My response will always be, accept that, but what if it happens to your partner or your mate🤔

http://www.guyleech.com.au/my-mission/

[monbeg]

Something that I reckon the likes of Google Maps, Waze and Sygic Maps should have is the location of defib's.
They manage to put all sorts of other stuff on there so that shouldn't be that hard ?

I do keep myself current by doing a refresher every two years.

[Fizzie]

update - initial meet went ok Fizzie, but a bit of work to do for it to be able to advise location and link to emergency services.

Good to hear , but a bit surprised that there'd be a lot of work involved

Would have thought (hastening to add that while I do mapping for OSM, I knowing nothing about how the map is actually set-up! ) that it would be fairly straight forward to just add the AED "heart with lightning bolt" logo at the spots where an AED is located

[Gandalf the White]

I've scraped a few dollars together and now ordered a defib which will sit in my home when we're here and go into our touring kit when we're on the road.

I'm also now hosting a fortnightly zoomlink with Guy Leech and a mix of other people from bikkie dippers, tradies, sales people on the road and small/medium business owners. If anyone's interested in joining in, the next one is on Tues 16th June at 1pm or 7pm. Send me a pm on here and I'll hook you up.

[Gandalf the White]

I was asked to have a chat on a Qld based camping podcast Doggone Camping and here's the result for your listening pleasure🤔
https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode/686404

[briann532]

Playing Devils Advocate here.........................

BUT.............................

Is this AED thing going to be like seatbelts and smoke alarms?

Costly at first, and people kind of think they're a good idea, but oh wow they cost a lot.
Time then ticks by and suddenly everyones got one and pretty soon they're mandatory.

Geez, I hope so and the sooner the better.
I keep one in my work van and my 4WD.
Yes, they cost, but what's a life worth??? (No not Mundine's, you idiot!!!!  )

Thanks for the post too. Great initiative.

Cheers,
Brian

[Ultimate Adventures Podcast]

Playing Devils Advocate here.........................

BUT.............................

Is this AED thing going to be like seatbelts and smoke alarms?

Costly at first, and people kind of think they're a good idea, but oh wow they cost a lot.
Time then ticks by and suddenly everyones got one and pretty soon they're mandatory.

Geez, I hope so and the sooner the better.
I keep one in my work van and my 4WD.
Yes, they cost, but what's a life worth??? (No not Mundine's, you idiot!!!!  )

Thanks for the post too. Great initiative.

Cheers,
Brian

Yeah i think its a great idea. Although i also agree about mundine. You could just call a vet for him.

Thanks for coming on the show Scott.  I was lost for words really, unlike me.  Catch up soon. 

[Fizzie]

Any updates on progress, Gandalf