Author Topic: Is all diesel equal??  (Read 1997 times)

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Offline matthecat

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Is all diesel equal??
« on: January 04, 2019, 04:56:42 PM »
Hi guys,
Have recently had a Liberty petrol station open near me and they have been selling diesel for some 20-30 c per litre cheaper than the competition.
Filled up before a recent Christmas trip and have a gut feeling I used more fuel than usual.
My theory was based on our annual Coral Bay trip where I am able to get from Perth to Billabong R/House before fuelling up whereas I reckon I would have been struggling this time - this is just on a casual fuel gauge basis between Perth & Horrocks.
Was towing our camper loaded up as usual , weather was a lot hotter (say 42c this time v 20c in July) - no other obvious variances.
Question - could the cheaper fuel be because it's inferior?
Regards 

Edit - spelling/grammer
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 05:14:32 PM by matthecat »

Offline KingBilly

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2019, 05:04:14 PM »
Some diesel may have a bio component but it must be labelled as such.  Otherwise no difference except for the cleaning additives which make a dubious difference.  I would suggest other factors where at play to increase your recent consumption.

KB

Offline lloydus67

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2019, 05:39:03 PM »
I can’t say I use liberty, but I know the cetaine (equivalents to octane in petrol)levels are different between Caltex and BP


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Offline KingBilly

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2019, 05:40:59 PM »
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 05:42:50 PM by KingBilly »
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Offline Champin

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 06:00:31 PM »
I agree with KB. I have a scan guage on my car and have found there are all sorts of factors in play there, i.e. temperature, AC on or off, even the mood I'm  in that day. On my normal commute to work of approximately 20ks through half windy hilly road and half highway my usage can vary between 7.5 to 10.5 ltr/100k or there abouts. Sometimes way more if I'm running late.

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Offline lloydus67

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2019, 06:02:23 PM »
Caltex cheerfully admit their diesel is only 46 cetane rating, Shell is 49 cetane, and BP is 51 cetane. Biodiesel blends have a higher cetane rating with 51 cetane as the minimum.


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Offline Champin

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 06:05:23 PM »
Caltex cheerfully admit their diesel is only 46 cetane rating, Shell is 49 cetane, and BP is 51 cetane. Biodiesel blends have a higher cetane rating with 51 cetane as the minimum.


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What does cetane do, and does it make much difference?

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Offline Hookie

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 06:08:23 PM »
When my fuel pump packed it in on my old pajero I was lucky enough to accidentally have it towed to the only place between Sydney and Brisbane equipped to diagnose and rebuild it. Had a couple of long chats with the old diesel mechanic there, a very good technician who has been rebuilding pumps for decades and really knew his stuff. He just told me flatout to buy my diesel from BP. I trusted him, so that's what I've been doing ever since. He also said that the quality of diesel in Australia is pretty bad compared to other countries.

Offline lloydus67

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 06:20:38 PM »
What does cetane do, and does it make much difference?

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It’s your bang for your buck
It’s the amount of power available like octane
I agree that your wasting your time and money buying premium diesel, as the video suggests, not much but an anti foaming additive in it


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Offline glenm64

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 06:24:50 PM »
Here in Perth there is only the BP refinery and an import fuel farm. I work next door to it and the fuel is imported through one berth.
I see all brands of fuel tankers coming and going from the fuel farm including the occasional BP trucks too.
 

Cheers Glen
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 06:26:29 PM by glenm64 »
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Offline Champin

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2019, 06:28:04 PM »
I own a Triton so the little amount of power gain still makes it fairly gutless but the quality is more what I'm after. I predominantly fill at BP and the only additive I use is an alpine thing if I hit the high country in winter.

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Offline Paddler Ed

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2019, 07:59:17 PM »
My suspicion is that the temperature had more of an impact than the fuel; I've been running Liberty fuel for about the last 18 months as it is reliably ~15c/Litre cheaper than any of the others - occasionally it'll get some Caltex or Mobil from the depot pumps (diesel), but generally it's Liberty petrol or diesel.

I've not noticed a major decrease in fuel economy that I can pinpoint to the cheaper fuel, certainly my cost per KM isn't changed.

In my signature is the Fuelly for my 4Runner; that's been tracked over 100,000km whilst the diesel Land Cruiser has about 10,000km of fuel history.
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Offline Brisbane Puff

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2019, 08:23:14 PM »
Now, this may start one of those sit down with a big bag a popcorn sessions.. But, I have a Hilux with a very highly modified diesel. Old school mechanical injection ect. ect.
I normally run United fuel with the occasional tank of BP if nothing else is available. Now, not that I have ever checked it out but I have been told that United buy what ever fuel is the cheapest. Again, not sure if that's true or not..
But, two points.. The truck 'seem' to run better and further on the United. Second point, every two tanks or so, I drop in 2 stroke engine oil, (mineral only) at 300:1 ratio.
When pulling the van I can actually notice the difference in smoothness and pulling. (torque??)..
Also, we do a lot of trips out west where we only use Puma fuels, usually filled up at unmanned road train pumps.

Bottom line is. I have an anaroid  system fitted to the injection pump controlled by boost pressure and switched via an electrical solenoid effectively giving me the choice of two fuel maps. Out west using Puma we sit on around 110 -120kph and dont use the higher fuel map unless we are passing a train (or a 200 series towing half a house). But in the occasional times where we have needed to fuel up with BP or Caltex, the anariod is left switched on.. So, I guess it's a case of make of it what you think..
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Offline KingBilly

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2019, 08:28:18 PM »
All diesel sold in Australia must meet the minimum/maximum government standards

http://www.environment.gov.au/protection/fuel-quality/standards/diesel

KB

Offline KingBilly

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #14 on: January 04, 2019, 08:29:48 PM »
Australia imports around 50% of its diesel.

There are only four (4) refineries in Australia.
Altona, Vic - Mobil
Geelong, Vic - Viva (private equity company which bought out the Shell refinery and distribution network)
Lytton, Qld - Caltex
Kwinanna, WA - BP

So in summary, oils may not be oils Sol, but diesel is diesel :D

KB
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 08:32:17 PM by KingBilly »

Offline KingBilly

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2019, 08:34:05 PM »
Oh, and then there is IOR which owns and operates the Eromanga Oil Refinery, located in the small town of Eromanga approximately 1000 kms west of Brisbane Australia. The refinery produces high quality diesel fuels, heating oils and kerosene, as well as variety of speciality petroleum products for industrial uses.  Eromanga Refinery’s main fuel product is Eromanga UMF – a highly specialised diesel mining fuel with the lowest particulates of any fuel currently on the market.

So not really a major player in the domestic market

KB

Offline rossm

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2019, 09:07:17 PM »
I log all my fuel purchases with the Road Trip app.  A bit OCD I know but my dad did it too ..
 With a notebook and pencil in the glovebox of the FJ.

With around  160,000km of records from a Ford  Ranger and now a Prado and fuel bought in many places from Kununurra to Birdsville the last thing I think is a factor is the brand of fuel.

I reckon it’s all about the right foot. I drive for safety, not economy, so I am regularly five or even 10 percent under the posted limit. But  drive either car   all day at the limit  or a bit above, and the fuel use jumps markedly. Particularly if there is a load on board.

If I am home I would be lucky to do 100km some weeks and diesels are not ideal for running to the local shops. Probably should walk or get a bicycle.


Offline Craig Tomkinson

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2019, 09:27:46 PM »
My old 1HZ 80 series does 600ks off the main tank and 300ks off the sub empty, and towing the pop top van on holidays with wife and kids in the 4wd with gear, it does 500ks to the main tank and 250ks to the sub, if heading north to the Cape towing my 5m tinny and 4wd and boat are fully loaded I get 450ks to the main tank and 225ks to the sub all day every day, does not matter what diesel I buy, I sit on 95 to 100ks, 1st and 2 on big hill, ha ha, Craig
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:14:29 AM by Craig Tomkinson »
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Offline Bird

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2019, 09:30:44 PM »
Quote from: matthecat
Question - could the cheaper fuel be because it's inferior?
Simple answer - Yes it *could*. Not saying it is, but anything is possible... you could send a sample of it off for testing if you really want.


Bloke at work has done 3 tanks of Aldi petrol from near the airport, and 3 tanks of BP near work and in his words - he gets noticeable different range from the 2 locations. this is in Suby Forester GT.
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Offline Brisbane Puff

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2019, 10:50:42 PM »
""Oh, and then there is IOR which owns and operates the Eromanga Oil Refinery, located in the small town of Eromanga approximately 1000 kms west of Brisbane Australia. The refinery produces high quality diesel fuels, heating oils and kerosene, as well as variety of speciality petroleum products for industrial uses.  Eromanga Refinery’s main fuel product is Eromanga UMF – a highly specialised diesel mining fuel with the lowest particulates of any fuel currently on the market.

So not really a major player in the domestic market

KB...""

Hmmmm... Just wondering if maybe (just maybe) that's why Puma fuels out west seem to be better??? We are running about the same weight each trip.. The weight of the Hilux, with about 1/2 tonne of gear in the back and about 1600Kg of van.

Fuel up at Eromanga, then Quilpie, then Charleville. Runs about 14L/100K  at 110-120kph. Then fuel at Roma (Caltex), Then Dalby (Caltex), runs about 17L/100K.  Then Gatton (BP). Runs about 18L/100K at 100Kph (or lower with all the traffic from Dalby to Toowoomba). Top of the torque band is 2900RPM. 110Kph = 3100RPM.
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Offline GeoffA

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2019, 05:47:46 AM »
Daughter's car got a load of bad petrol from the local Liberty a few years ago. Rattled it's head off (figuratively) until I could top-up with something decent. I only buy from the big 3 now. Not worth it IMO.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:22:04 AM by GeoffA »
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Offline Craig Tomkinson

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2019, 06:21:18 AM »
my fuel consumption changes not from the diesel I recon but from weather and road conditions and temp,  like a 25 to 30knot head wind or tale wind or from flat country as to all hills on a cold morning, on a cold morning my old HD41 UD was 1/2 a gear better on hills than through the day
« Last Edit: January 05, 2019, 06:25:25 AM by Craig Tomkinson »
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Offline gronk

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2019, 08:08:32 AM »
Australia imports around 50% of its diesel.


KB

And that's another topic......if we only import 1/2 of our diesel, why are we paying full market price for it ?

Arab countries make 100% of their fuel and pay almost zero for it......why aren't we paying 50% for our diesel  ?

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Offline krisandkev

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2019, 08:38:43 AM »
My experience from doing a lot of travel is BP is the best, followed by Caltex. I have also been told by mechanics try and use BP as it is the cleanest.  Back in 2016 on our way north from Melbourne I had to fill up at one of those cheaper servos, cannot recall the name, but the diesel price was the cheapist I have seen for a long time. That was the worst fuel ecomony I have had. I could just see the gauge going down.  It was amazing to watch. I was even worried I might have a fuel leak!  So after 322,000 in our cruiser I try and only get BP.  Just from my experience.  Kevin
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Offline Shippo

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Re: Is all diesel equal??
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2019, 10:09:06 AM »
Here in Perth there is only the BP refinery and an import fuel farm. I work next door to it and the fuel is imported through one berth.
I see all brands of fuel tankers coming and going from the fuel farm including the occasional BP trucks too.
 

Cheers Glen

I used to work on the BP tankers that loaded up at the Kwinana refinery. We would then deliver fuel to interstate ports and discharge to all the major fuel companies...Mobil..Shell..Caltex etc. Once it was discharged into their tanks it had their own additives mixed in, but it's all originally BP fuel.
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