Author Topic: Power and gas is to expensive.  (Read 58716 times)

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Offline Fizzie

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #650 on: February 28, 2019, 10:31:09 AM »
Plug your details into here and see what it fires up - when I did it RedEnergy were the best option for me:
https://www.energymadeeasy.gov.au/

Just had a try & the results don't make sense to me ???

Punched in all my details & it came back to say AGL was $100 cheaper a year than Diamond, but by using my actual figures for Diamond, I can't work out how they came up with the figure they quoted as it's ~$200 a year more than I pay ???

Then tried in my own spreadsheet putting in AGL's plan figures & it works out ~$30/quarter more than I'm currently paying ???

While doing all this, also just got an e-mail that mentioned this: https://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/episodes/solar/10846360 :D
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Offline alnjan

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #651 on: March 01, 2019, 05:41:50 PM »
https://finance.nine.com.au/2019/03/01/17/19/carnegie-clean-energy-wa-wave-power-company-suspended


Cheers

Al and/or Jan

Offline Pete79

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #652 on: May 10, 2019, 05:56:20 PM »
Did any other Queenslanders get a $50 credit on their power bills this month?

Did anyone get more then $50 from any other electricity company?

From the Energy Australia email I received this afternoon;

“Hello Peter

Thanks for being with us.

As part of our commitment to simple, more affordable energy, we support the Queensland Government’s Affordable Energy Plan. This means you’ll receive a $50 credit on your electricity account.”


Offline Fizzie

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #653 on: May 11, 2019, 03:01:54 PM »
Next bill refund :D (Diamond Energy) is due mid-June, so you've got me interested! :D
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Online tryagain

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #654 on: September 23, 2019, 01:18:23 PM »
Think I had derided neucular as too expensive and slow to bring online in the past, think I might have to change my tune a little after watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w
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Online paceman

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #655 on: September 23, 2019, 01:48:43 PM »
Think I had derided neucular as too expensive and slow to bring online in the past, think I might have to change my tune a little after watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

pretty much says it all.

Offline alnjan

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #656 on: September 23, 2019, 01:52:54 PM »
Think I had derided neucular as too expensive and slow to bring online in the past, think I might have to change my tune a little after watching this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-yALPEpV4w

Also watch this one. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0W1ZZYIV8o&t=632s
Cheers

Al and/or Jan

Offline Pete79

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #657 on: February 14, 2020, 09:05:29 PM »
I’m very cautiously poking this sleeping bear..

But I just read an article saying that South Australia has been cut off from the rest of the national power grid since January 31st. ???

I know there’s been plenty of other big things happening around the country lately, but given the massive uproar last time those power lines got cut I was pretty surprised this one hadn’t gotten the slightest mention anywhere around here.

Apparently this time a 500kV transmission line was cut, much bigger than the 275kV lines hit by tornadoes before the South Australia system black in 2016.

The technical stuff is way over my head, but it sounds like the wind and batteries saved the day this time. Perhaps that’s why the usual shouty voices have been so quite.. ??? ;)

From the article;

“When the storms hit on the afternoon of January 31 South Australia had been exporting about 460MW of capacity to Victoria.
The loss of the link meant that South Australia had way too much generation and the event pushed frequency levels up dangerously high. But several wind farms responded – as they are now programmed to do – by immediately reducing their output.
And the batteries helped by immediately ramping up to charge and therefore add load to the grid – and then quickly change direction again as the frequency fluttered.

Some gas generators also responded, but the bulk of the instant response came from the wind farms, the three big batteries and two of the bigger solar farms. Rooftop solar also played a role, with inverters switching off – as they are now expected to do in such situations – adding to system demand, which is what the market operator wanted at the time.

Indeed, it was the speed and the accuracy of the inverter-based technologies that AEMO engineers say was the key to bringing the frequency excursion back under control, keeping the lights on and preventing the type of catastrophic result that occurred in the “system black” in September 2016.

What happened to South Australia is about as bad as it gets, but without coal, and without hydro, it has been managed in exemplary fashion. And it should be a tribute to good engineering, and an endorsement of renewable and battery technologies, and of the Liberal state government’s goal of reaching “net 100 per cent” renewables by 2030.”

Offline gronk

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #658 on: February 14, 2020, 10:06:10 PM »
?


The technical stuff is way over my head, but it sounds like the wind and batteries saved the day this time. Perhaps that’s why the usual shouty voices have been so quite.. ??? ;)



It all sounds pretty good.......but this event must have happened during the day.
Wind and solar doesn't run a state during the night, and the you beaut batteries only smooth out irregularities in the supply, and their gas isn't enough to run the state either.

Even though we don't look like going down a nuclear path anytime soon, the above video gives a good insight to the shortcomings of the  renewables some think will save the planet !!
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #659 on: February 14, 2020, 10:23:58 PM »
Wind and solar doesn't run a state during the night, and the you beaut batteries only smooth out irregularities in the supply, and their gas isn't enough to run the state either.

South Australia is running totally self sufficiently, independent of the rest of the country.

Live data from tonight;

Wind is producing 805MW
Gas is producing 725MW
No other power supply is feeding South Australia right now this evening.



Not sure why you would say that wind doesn’t run a state at night.. ???

Offline gronk

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #660 on: February 15, 2020, 07:32:45 AM »
South Australia is running totally self sufficiently, independent of the rest of the

Not sure why you would say that wind doesn’t run a state at night.. ???

Umm, because nearly every night, the wind drops off and the turbine capacity drops off, making that output figure for wind look good.....but  doesn't tell you the output during the night.

As for being self sufficient, those figures state the whole of SA is running on 1300 Mw .....I'm sure there are more than 20,000 people living there.
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #661 on: February 15, 2020, 08:31:22 AM »
Maths wasn’t you’re strong point aye... ;D ;D

That data was live at 8:30pm and wind was producing over 50% of their power requirements last night.

The whole point of my post was that SA has been cut off from the rest of the grid for 2 weeks now and the world hasn’t ended for them yet.

Offline Fizzie

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #662 on: February 15, 2020, 08:46:06 AM »
As for being self sufficient, those figures state the whole of SA is running on 1300 Mw .....I'm sure there are more than 20,000 people living there.

There are a few different sources of data, who don't count it in exactly the same way, so I don't know what the exact figures were last night (although the faint striped bar, under the generation bar on Pete's diagram, shows the demand at that time, which was less than the amount of power being generated).

However, right now, as at 0830 AEST Sat, so 0900 local, SA is generating ~1338 MW v 1174 MW of demand. Break down of generation is something like 742MW gas, 653MW wind + 46MW "large" solar. There's also another ~141MW being generated by "small" (household roof-top) solar. They are also exporting ~140MW to Victoria

Here two different spots to see what's going on at any time:

https://reneweconomy.com.au/nem-watch/

https://www.aemo.com.au/energy-systems/electricity/national-electricity-market-nem/data-nem/data-dashboard-nem#nem-dispatch-overview

From (extensive!) discussions on Whirlpool over these last couple of weeks, when everything collapsed in Victoria due to power stations & lines being shut down due to fires, then the main SA - Vic connector being damaged due to towers being knocked down by another tornado, it was very close to the aluminium smelter at Portland being irrevocably damaged due to power failure. They were able to do some quick re-jigging of power arrangements via the secondary SA - Vic connector to get power from SA to feed it, literally with minutes left!
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Offline Bird

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #663 on: February 15, 2020, 08:58:54 AM »
Quote from: Pete79
I know there’s been plenty of other big things happening around the country lately, but given the massive uproar last time those power lines got cut I was pretty surprised this one hadn’t gotten the slightest mention anywhere around here.

http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=42087.msg1006296#msg1006296
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Offline gronk

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #664 on: February 15, 2020, 07:40:39 PM »
Maths wasn’t you’re strong point aye... ;D ;D

That data was live at 8:30pm and wind was producing over 50% of their power requirements last night.

The whole point of my post was that SA has been cut off from the rest of the grid for 2 weeks now and the world hasn’t ended for them yet.

Actually maths was my better subject at school.
Data was live at 8.30pm.....what about 2.30am ?
The point of your post may have been their ability to supply all their own power....nothing wrong with that, but 1/2 their power comes from gas....yet people complain about other states being reliant on coal ( a fossil fuel ), so gas is no different.
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Offline GeoffA

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #665 on: February 15, 2020, 07:44:13 PM »
Coal, gas and oil are renewable.
Just takes a bit longer..... ;D
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Offline GeoffA

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #666 on: February 15, 2020, 07:47:19 PM »
.....
That data was live at 8:30pm....

Way past bed time in SA....


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Online paceman

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #667 on: February 19, 2020, 10:39:10 AM »

Offline gronk

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #668 on: February 19, 2020, 06:41:33 PM »
found this interesting, in relation to the SA renewables 'utopia'...

http://joannenova.com.au/2020/02/sa-renewable-electricity-market-mayhem-as-frequency-stabilizing-costs-hit-record-breaking-90-million/


There are a fair few smart people out there that saw this coming.....but were probably ignored.
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Offline Mitch92

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #669 on: February 19, 2020, 07:08:18 PM »
And people say that stable baseload power isn't needed  >:D

Offline Bird

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Re: Power and gas is to expensive.
« Reply #670 on: February 19, 2020, 07:15:07 PM »
Coal, gas and oil are renewable.
Just takes a bit longer..... ;D
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