Author Topic: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!  (Read 8115 times)

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Offline Darcy7

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Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« on: September 17, 2015, 01:50:59 PM »
Hey all

Last weekend I got the opportunity to participate in a vehicle evaluation and test drive of a group of 11 current 4WDs on the market down at the Werribee 4WD training complex west of Melbourne.  Got to say, it was pretty much a perfect day for me but it was also a bit of an eye opener in terms of what is available on the market and the capabilities of the current crop of Dual Cab utes.

To preface, we were looking at these from the standpoint that they would be used by people who would have done a 4WD course but would not necessarily do a lot of 4WDing otherwise, so the vehicles had to be practical, comfortable and easy to operate as well as safe.  So rather than go hard core at the various obstacles, we tried to see if the technology allowed us to drive off road slowly and safely.

In these circumstances, the key considerations were ease of operating the 4wd system, effectiveness of the traction control systems, and the ability of the hill decent control or low range downhill gearing to control decent speeds.

Other considerations were performance with 3 or more passengers on board and ride comfort when traversing rough ground.

The results were surprising and certainly raised the eyebrows of many of the testers there.

The set course was fairly representative of what most of these vehicles would be expected to traverse under 90% of off road situations.  It consisted of a heavily rutted track with very deep offset holes either side, a long muddy bog hole up to sill depth, a rocky and muddy mogul run, short dirt road, more rutted muddy tracks, a steep decent (about 45 degree) and a steep incline with offset deep wheel ruts to test articulation, and traction control and hill decent control (HDC) if fitted.

The vehicles were a Navara, BT50, Triton, Hilux x2, DMax, Colorado ute and wagon, Pajero, Prado and a VW Amarock.  All were automatic and 4 cylinder turbo diesels (except the BT50 which was the 5 cyl).

All the vehicles handled the first section pretty easily.  Some rode better than others over the rough track.  The Navara stood out as having the best ride of all the utes and felt the most substantial.  The Hilux and the BT-50 really shook us around.   The three wagons were the most comfortable and less fussed.  Separating them would be difficult. The Pajero is limited off road by comparison to the other two but its rear diff lock got it through in the end.

The hills were where we got the biggest shock. The Prado and Colorado wagons walked up and down without any fuss.  Both had good rear wheel articulation and effective low range gearing and HDC.  Neither activated their traction control on the uphill section even at less than walking pace.  The Pajero was decidedly scary downhill.  With no HDC, it ran away without brakes.  Under attempted controlled braking, it locked up and skidded all the way down. Uphill, it hesitated about halfway up but the traction control kicked in and it made it up without too much more fuss. We purposely left the rear diff lock off on the hills.  If it was engaged, it would have walked up easily.

Of the utes, the Hilux needed a fair bit of speed to get up.  Otherwise it lost traction and slid backwards alarmingly, unable to make it up.  Its traction control just doesn't seem to work very well at all.  Downhill it was brilliant with good low range gearing making up for not having HDC.  The BT50 also struggled up the hill mainly because its traction control seemed a bit slow to kick in.  It did regain traction and made it up but it was not without issue.  Downhill was good with HDC activated.  In fairness the BT50 was a tray back and had no load in the back.  If it was the ute, it may have faired a bit better.  All the other vehicles walked up and down the hills with no issues. 

The biggest surprise was the Amarock.  It does not have low range gearing but does have HDC and Traction control, both of which are extremely effective.  It was so good, I tried everything to make it loose traction on the uphill section by almost idling it up, but nothing would stop it.  Its an amazing vehicle with capabilities beyond expectation.

Another interesting observation was the seating positions and drivability of each vehicle.  Most had seat height adjustment so getting a good off road driving position was possible.  The BT50s seat was way too low for serious off road work.  The Hilux (SR5) was terrible.  Just couldn't get a comfortable seating position.  The Pajero and Colorado wagons were great.  The Prado the biggest inside with the most room.  If this was about interior comfort alone, you'd buy the Prado and be done with it..!

The operation of the transmissions was also interesting.  Most have a sport shift mode with a gear up and down position.  Most had the upshift (+) to the front of the car and the downshift (-) to the rear.  This seemed the logical way and worked well.  The BT50 is the opposite and we were constantly selecting the wrong gear as a result.  Its just not logical.  If you owned one and drove it all the time, you would get used to it.  But jumping into it and other vehicles on the day was irritating to say the least.

Shifting into 4WD is also interesting depending on the Vehicle.  The Amarock has no low range so you just put it into the lowest gear, push on the 'off road' button which engages the HDC and off you go.  Most with a dial to select either 2H, 4H or 4L had to be put into neutral before they would change to low range.  A couple of testers got caught out by this not realising they had not actually selected low range.  You've got to read the manual these days apparently...!  Getting the Prado into 'off road mode' takes some thinking about.  The number of options and variations is mind boggling. Gone are the days of shifting into low range, ,making sure your hubs are locked and off you go...!

The other problem with autos is some have a mind of their own.  The Colorados and DMax behaved exactly as they should, shifting up and down when 'told' to.  Toyota boxes changed down easily enough but they tended to ignore upshifts until they were ready to change up depending on the speed. It was a bit annoying especially if you wanted to lope over obstacles without bouncing the accelerator.  Fortunately, Toyota make decent long travel accelerators so its not so much a issue, just annoying.

I could not complain about any of the engines.  All were good in their own ways and all could be left to pretty much idle over difficult terrain.  The BT50's 5 pot has so much torque down low, you just put it into 3rd and it will do most stuff with little throttle input.  It does make a horrible noise when pushed though.  Sounds like a bear having its toenails pulled out.  Its not a high revving engine either.  Where all the 4 pots like a bit of revving, the BT50 feels reluctant to spin up and its out of puff really early.  Its not a bad thing, its just a different driving style to what I was used to. 

The Amarock's had the smallest engine of the group but it didn't feel like it suffered for it. In fact its probably the nicest ute of the lot to drive.  The Navara was not far behind.

In all, I wouldn't say I wouldn't be happy with any of the vehicles if I was given one.  But if I had to put my hard earned towards one, purely on this test alone, I'd buy a Prado or the Colorado in the wagons.  For the utes, I'd go for either the Amarock, Navara or the DMax. 

Biggest surprise of the day was the Amarock.  It is not a hard core off roader but its the safest and most comfortable ute in all conditions.  And any idiot can get behind the wheel and take it almost anywhere with just the push of a button. If I had to buy a ute, it would be hard to pass up. 

Cheers

Darcy 


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Offline tk421

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2015, 02:12:49 PM »
Thanks for sharing. Makes me glad of my 120 Prado. Still has the second lever for HR/LR work. No button pushing for me!  Wouldn't mind TC though  :)

Its a shame there was no Ranger or Everest included and they didn't' wait until the new Hilux, Fortuners and Prados came out with their new engines.
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Offline chisel

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2015, 03:16:46 PM »
Thanks heaps for sharing that.  Awesome stuff.

Do you have the years and 'badge' (eg. SR5, XTR) for each of the vehicles?  Maybe they were all 2014/2015?  All stock standard?
 
I'm considering a ute purchase.  Of course offroad performance isn't the only criteria but this certainly makes me wonder a bit more about the Amarok.  I wish it had a better wading depth (only 500mm although I imagine a snorkel would improve that) and I wish I could get over my fear of VW reliability issues.

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2015, 03:28:24 PM »
Great report.  Thanks for taking the time to share  :cup:

KB

Offline JPH

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2015, 04:34:05 PM »
Great report there Darcy, I had a look at the photos the Deputy Chief posted on Sunday night and was waiting for the results.  Interestingly I did my 4wd course a few weeks ago in South West. we utilised Ballarat 4 wd clubs complex on the Saturday morning, we had Patrols and two BT 50 twin cabs. The Utes really struggled on the climbs compared to the patrols, but the downhill ascent was quite effective.
 We have just had the GVM upgrade on our patrol and also purchased a Colorado twin cab for the unit which is about to go into service next week. I think the two vehicles will definetly both have different operational uses and strong points. I drive a 150 Prado, so well aware how well they perform, it appears CFA are heading in the same direction, with Prados and twin cabs.

Cheers

Josh

Offline Darcy7

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2015, 04:47:40 PM »
Thanks heaps for sharing that.  Awesome stuff.

Do you have the years and 'badge' (eg. SR5, XTR) for each of the vehicles?  Maybe they were all 2014/2015?  All stock standard?
 
I'm considering a ute purchase.  Of course offroad performance isn't the only criteria but this certainly makes me wonder a bit more about the Amarok.  I wish it had a better wading depth (only 500mm although I imagine a snorkel would improve that) and I wish I could get over my fear of VW reliability issues.

Hi chisel

Sorry mate I don't have that handy.  What I can tell you is that all the vehicles were all new (2015) and current demonstration fleet vehicles.  Pretty sure the Hilux, Prado, DMax and BT50(?) were outgoing models.  The Navara, Amarok and Colorados were current.  The Hilux I drove was an SR-5.  The BT-50 was a base model.  The Prado was a GXL. I cannot remember the rest.  I think the Paj was a mid spec model.

The Amarok is an incredible vehicle for what it is, but it is definitely no hard core off road weapon.  Even with a snorkel, if over 500mm deep water is a constant concern for you , then you would be doing pretty extreme off roading regularly and I don't think its designed for that sort of punishment.  None of these vehicles are, with the exception of perhaps the Prado.

I cannot comment on reliability.  Google 'issues with xxx' with any of these vehicles and you'll find a raft of potential problems.  If I was not going to go into remote areas of the country and sticking predominantly to Victorian/NSW areas, getting VW service wouldn't be an issue.  Going outback for months at a time, that may be a different story.  The number and distribution of dealers may be a higher consideration that would factor into my decision making. 

You're not going to go too far wrong with Holden, Ford or Toyota.

   

But...properly set up, the Amarok would definitely tow a camper to the Cape or along the Gibb River road. 


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Offline Darcy7

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2015, 04:58:14 PM »
Great report there Darcy, I had a look at the photos the Deputy Chief posted on Sunday night and was waiting for the results.  Interestingly I did my 4wd course a few weeks ago in South West. we utilised Ballarat 4 wd clubs complex on the Saturday morning, we had Patrols and two BT 50 twin cabs. The Utes really struggled on the climbs compared to the patrols, but the downhill ascent was quite effective.
 We have just had the GVM upgrade on our patrol and also purchased a Colorado twin cab for the unit which is about to go into service next week. I think the two vehicles will definetly both have different operational uses and strong points. I drive a 150 Prado, so well aware how well they perform, it appears CFA are heading in the same direction, with Prados and twin cabs.

Cheers

Josh

Hey Josh

You sound like a fellow orange person...!

My understanding is the SES wants to standardise on 2 vehicles.  A wagon and a dual cab ute.  The minimium requirements are:

Must be Diesel
Must be ANCAP 5 rated or higher
Must be Automatic
Must be able to tow a minimum of 3000kg
Must be able to carry 5 passengers inc driver and carry 100kgs for the wagon and 200gs for use and be within GVM.
Must be able to tow 3000kgs with the above loading and remain within GCM
Must be able to do the above within axel load ratings

The Patrol that has served us well is no longer suitable.  Some of the vehicles tested don't meet the minimum spec either but new models may.  Some manufacturers offer special 'packs' for mining and emergency services with GVM upgrades and other enhancements.

We have a Patrol with GVM upgrade and a Ranger.  The Ranger needs a GVM upgrade as well.

I wouldn't give an Amarok to a unit like say Mansfield.  They would kill it.  But for the average urban unit that assists in operations in bush areas, it is almost perfect.


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Offline barrel01

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2015, 05:03:07 PM »
Good write up, I have an Amarok with quite and few mods and it goes everywhere I ask it to with the benefit of then being nice to drive on the black stuff to and from the off road sites.

It walked up and down Billy goats and most of the High Country with ease and towed a camper around a fair bit too.  I cop some flack from 4x4 mates telling me it's not a real 4WD but with the 2 inch lift, rear locker and decent rubber at the right pressures it is fine by me.

Offline dazzler

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2015, 06:56:12 PM »

Biggest surprise of the day was the Amarock.  It is not a hard core off roader but its the safest and most comfortable ute in all conditions. 

Cheers

Darcy

They are an amazing vehicle.  4Motion is pretty incredible.

Thanks for the post!
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Offline mjharps

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2015, 07:29:45 PM »
Thanks Darcy - great review!
Cheers,
mjharps

Offline Jakster1

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2015, 07:46:51 PM »
Sounds like a fun day!!

Thanks for sharing. Makes me glad of my 120 Prado. Still has the second lever for HR/LR work. No button pushing for me!  Wouldn't mind TC though  :)



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Offline JPH

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2015, 07:55:47 PM »
Yep, past Controller at South Barwon, back in as a Deputy Controller again after a four years as member ordinary! It's good to see VICSES trying to standardise the fleet and also involving vols in the process. A lot of staff don't seem to like the Colorado and were quite surprised we ordered one, time will tell! I think we will try and retain the patrol for a few more years yet though.

Offline tk421

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2015, 10:02:49 PM »

Nothing diff locks can't fix

True that!


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Offline speewa158

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2015, 07:03:20 AM »
l have the word that could be warranty problems if you do mods on " The Rock "  Might be something to look into before you finally decide on bull bars & snorkels etc         :cheers:
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Offline Aaron Schubert

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2015, 07:51:47 AM »
Great information mate. Thanks a lot!

Aaron
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Offline dazzler

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #15 on: September 18, 2015, 08:41:02 AM »

l have the word that could be warranty problems if you do mods on " The Rock "  Might be something to look into before you finally decide on bull bars & snorkels etc         :cheers:

There is a factory bar and an aftermarket snorkel may only void a warranty claim related directly to the intake system where the snorkel could reasonably be responsible. Can't think of one though.

Warranty issues with mods only effect the area they relate to.

So if I fit a 50mm lift and the front cv's wear out early the warranty could be denied. If the gearbox died warranty on the box should be honoured.


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Offline gronk

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2015, 09:26:29 AM »

So if I fit a 50mm lift and the front cv's wear out early the warranty could be denied. If the gearbox died warranty on the box should be honoured.



SHOULD be .....but because they don't play nice sometimes, they just deny warranty...then up to you to prove otherwise......can be costly, and most people fold under the pressure..

Keeping in good with the dealer ( a good dealer ) goes a long way , same as getting it serviced by them under warranty.....yeh, I know you don't have to, but you'd be surprised how many get fobbed off by not being a "star "pupil !!
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Offline Darcy7

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2015, 09:53:54 AM »
Yep, past Controller at South Barwon, back in as a Deputy Controller again after a four years as member ordinary! It's good to see VICSES trying to standardise the fleet and also involving vols in the process. A lot of staff don't seem to like the Colorado and were quite surprised we ordered one, time will tell! I think we will try and retain the patrol for a few more years yet though.

I don't think they had much choice but to go through an exhaustive process to come up with some standard vehicles after they got caught up, along with other services, in the fiasco with the dual cab utes overloading issue.  It has helped bring the manufacturers along to be involved in the resolution as well.  Having the mining industry going through similar processes has also helped.  We're starting to see some of the manufacturers develop special models with locally sourced upgraded suspension and other enhancements.

The after market accessory industry is also attempting to resolve some of the issues. I didn't know this but apparently the service in Victoria has approximately 40 roo strikes each year...!  I believe ARB may be in the process of developing a new smart-bar that is both light weight and protects against kangaroo strikes.  It also maintains the vehicles existing safety rating.

The loading issue is huge and I do not believe the general public is fully up with it.  They look at the basic selling specs and think they will be OK.  But do the maths and incredible how easy it is to be overloaded. I often wonder about many of the vehicles featured in the 4wd mags whether they are potentially overloaded.  I'd go so far to say that they should check this before publishing how great they are.


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Offline Darcy7

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2015, 10:05:40 AM »
Good write up, I have an Amarok with quite and few mods and it goes everywhere I ask it to with the benefit of then being nice to drive on the black stuff to and from the off road sites.

It walked up and down Billy goats and most of the High Country with ease and towed a camper around a fair bit too.  I cop some flack from 4x4 mates telling me it's not a real 4WD but with the 2 inch lift, rear locker and decent rubber at the right pressures it is fine by me.

Mate...don't let anyone hang it on you about the Rock.  Tell them to take one for a drive and I'm certain they will come away impressed.  Billy Goats is about as difficult as 99% of 4wd owners will ever attempt and if the VW got up and down that without any fuss, its a good truck.

I must admit, I would not have believed I would say this about it before I drove it.  I'm old school...give me manual live axel 4wd, a real low range gearbox with a second leaver in the cab and decent low range gearing and I'm happy.  None of this electronic black magic.  But I'm starting to see the light.  The technology seems to be reliable and it works. 

If you think about it, why wouldn't you get a 4wd that feels more like a car to drive which accounts for 90% of the time you use it, then it can handle the off road work you do in that remaining 10%?  It makes sense.


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Offline Spud7017

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Re: Ultimate day - Testing 11 4WDs off road...!
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2015, 08:17:35 PM »
Informative write up thanks mate.  I have an Amarok and agree with you completely.  If your looking to spend your life in the wilderness with one wheel stuck up in the air and the others in deep ruts then there are far better choices than the VW.  However if your looking to do the Gibbs, Canning, Tanamin, Darling, etc you wont be disappointed and then have a nice car to pick up the groceries and drop the kids off at school.  Regarding servicing VW dealerships are not extensive but the depth of knowledge across the mechanical service industry is increasing as it needs to to keep pace with modern engines and gearboxes etc and the internet and forums like AusAmarok have an amazing depth of information and members knowledge and experience (not unlike this fine forum). 
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