Author Topic: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !  (Read 53015 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Darcy7

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2180
  • Thanked: 34 times
  • Gender: Male
  • The plumage doesn't enter into it.....!
    • RVeeThereYet.com
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2015, 12:49:08 PM »
I'm no engineer but I've got a theory on this and airbags and suspension are only a small part of the story.  Its all about vehicle construction, weight placement, G forces and Archimedes...!

If you do a Google image search on bent dual cab utes, you'll see a plethora of photos of the same thing.  They are all bent at the point between the back of the cab and the front of the tray or tub.  This can't be a coincidence.  Its an obvious weak point and here's why...

You hear how vehicle manufacturers have to put extra bracing in the chassis of a convertible car that was originally designed as a sedan or hardtop.  Instead of having a rigid shell, all the strength is now in the floorplan alone and as a result it becomes all floppy and requires extra bracing to get additional rigidity.  Interestingly it is never as much as the sedan or hardtop. 

Its basically the same effect with dual cab utes.  Half of the vehicle is a standard sedan and the other half is essentially a convertible and there is nothing joining the 2 halves together other than sharing a common chassis.

Now I know there are differences between a monocoque chassis of a modern day sedan and the rigid ladder chassis of a 4WD, but rigidity is rigidity regardless.  Even a heavy ladder frame chassis would have additional rigidity if it was braced from front to back with a full length steel shell body of a wagon stuck on top of it.

Add to this the placement of the tow point of a dual cab ute in relation to the rear wheels compared to a 4wd Wagon.  In the case of a BT50, its nearly half the length of the space between the front and rear wheels.  What was it that Archimedes said...Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world...?

Now the final piece of the puzzle.  What happens when you bounce on a trampoline or fall onto a concrete path from a height?  You experience various G forces as your momentum is arrested by the trampoline or the ground.  The effect is your weight increases relative to the rate of deceleration.  The trampoline gives you a gradual deceleration but the hard concrete floor provides no give at all. You don't break any bones on the trampoline but hitting concrete from the same height is a different matter.  Again...same with cars suspension.  Leaf springs systems are more rigid than coils, hence their ability to carry a load.  Problem is when this load travels up and down with the movement of the car, g forces increase the weight and because there's no give in the spring (worse if air bags are in the picture) the force has to go somewhere and that will be the weakest point.  Guess where that might be...?  Right at the point these things are bending.  Between the tub and the cab.  Put a heavy trailer on the back where the additional leverage is obtained, add the g forces to that weight and I bet your tripling the weight on the back of the chassis even just by going over a speed hump.  Imagine the forces at play on a lumpy, corrugated, potholed sandy track.

As I said I'm no engineer but this all seems pretty obvious. It will be interesting to see if the wagon versions of the current crop of dual cab utes (Fortuna, MUX, Everest, etc) suffer the same bent chassis issues to the same extent.  Bet they don't...!
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 12:52:06 PM by Darcy7 »


Visit our blog at WWW.RVeeThereYet.com

Offline Metters

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 342
  • Thanked: 37 times
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2015, 01:16:23 PM »
To try and understand what is happening here you have to first look at the difference between weight and mass.  Weight is simply a measure of the pull of gravity. Mass is the amount of material in something.

A brick for example might weigh say 3 kilos.  When you place it on the ground, it does not float away or move because gravity is trying to pull it down to the centre of the earth.   If you place some scales between the brick and the ground, you will get a 3 kilo reading.  That 3 kilos does not change.

The brick did not damage the scales but if you pick it up to head height and drop it onto them, there is a good chance that it will.  Why did that happen you could ask because it still weighs only 3 kilos?  The difference is the material (mass) in the brick was put into motion.  It built up momentum and did not want to sop.  When the scales brought it to a sudden stop, it hit them hard causing a lot of damage in the process.

That is what is causing all of these bent chassis.  All of the material that you put behind the rear axle will fall and build up momentum when the wheels drop into a depression in the road.  It does not want to stop anymore than the brick did.  It takes the end of the chassis down with it but it is unrestrained because there is no spring between the end of the chassis and the road.  The restraint is the springs and axle housing that are well over a metre further forward.  In other words the end of your chassis behind the rear axle is sticking out like a diving board and just like a diving board, there is nothing supporting the far end of it.

When the wheels come back up again a split second later, the falling material behind the axle still wants to fall.  It thumps the end of the chassis down hard as the chassis tries to catch it and instantly heave it back up again.  This pivots the chassis on the rear axle bearings and tries to lift the front.

The springs can't help very much.  They just compress and pivot with the chassis.

It is a bit like a see saw.  You can load it up with a very heavy man on one end and a slightly lighter one on the other and one end will go down while the other will go up.  If you placed a spring between the plank and the cross bar, it will compress but the plank will still go down at one end and up at the other.

Imagine what this is doing to the rear of your chassis, particularly on rough roads.  It is constantly flexing the end of the chassis up and down and any chassis can only take so much of that before something drastic happens.

The reason why the front of the chassis does not bend, even with heavy bull bars and winches on it is because it is so short in length.  There is no serious leverage effect.

Look at your car from side on.  There is very little overhang in front of the front axle but there is a mile of it out the back.  That distance out the back is really a long lever that further amplifies the forces generated by all of that moving material. 

To see an example of that, look up the specifications for the Defender on Land Rover’s site.  It says 150 kg on the tow ball will add 206 kg to the rear axle.  That is because that 150 is back on the end of a lever. Imagine the forces going into the chassis near its pivot point when the 150 is in motion and constantly changing direction up and down.

Those forces are further increased when you add the weight of whatever is in the rear of the tray.

The reason why air bags seem to be blamed more often than not is they don't compress like a leaf spring.  A leaf spring compresses in proportion to the load i.e double the load and you double the compression.  An air bag is an exponential spring.  It just keeps on getting harder.  The more you try and compress it, the more it resists further compression.  They work a bit like a linear spring for about 40% of their travel then harden up rapidly after that to the point where they are like rocks at around 70% compressed. 

A leaf or coil will keep compressing until they reach the bump rubbers which are also exponential springs.  An air bag is like an oversize bump rubber and is not the sort of thing you want operating in a location designed for leaf springs. There is a good chance that an air bag will stop the downward movement of the chassis before the leaf springs would have.  That is why they can be so destructive.  It explains why more cars bend chassis with them than without.


I have heard many people claiming the high carrying capacities up in the vicinity of 1 ton are unrealistic and you can't load them up to that level without having the rear dragging on the ground.  It may sound impossible but maximum capacities require precise loading and it can be done.  Each load bearing area must carry its full share of the load.

To load one to the maximum you must start with 5 large football player size people. This will give you around 500 kg in the cabin.  A manufacturer has to design a car to carry large people.  It is no use setting it up for five size 6 women. The next step will be to fill the fuel tank. That should add about 70 to 80 kg.  The remaining 420 kg can then go into the tub out the back with the heaviest items as far forward as possible.

That will leave the car fully loaded and sitting at exactly the height that the manufacturer intended.  If you have a family consisting of two average size adults and three toddlers, you may have a combined weight of only 200 kgs.  You are definitely going to have the rear sagging if you then try and put the remaining 720 kg in the back.

All of these maximum loads are for good highway conditions only and should be reduced when in the bush.  The editorial in the 4X4 Australia bent chassis story said about 30 to 40 % should be knocked off the maximum capacity.  The best place for advice about this is the car manufacturer’s customer advice service. Contact details will be on their web site.  Don’t ask a dealer. 


We then have towing weights and once again the advertised weights of 3000 to 3500kg seem unrealistic but they may not be.  The manufacturer states a maximum capacity but does not specify what you can or can not tow. 

Have a look at this old Leyland Brothers DVD and stop it on 1 minute and 24 seconds.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPXKKFnhqdQ  A modern dual cab could tow a trailer like that with a total weight of 3500 kgs but there would be no more than about 20 kg on the tow ball.

The manufacturer says their car can tow something weighing 3500 kg somewhere but they don’t claim it can tow anything that heavy anywhere.  It is up to the owner to ask a few questions about both the car and their trailer before buying anything.

Another big killer of ute chassis is the tow ball weight.  4X4 Australia mentions this and says the trailer can jerk the back of the car up and down.  It may not always be apparent to the driver but the chassis will notice it.  This all comes down to reducing towing capacities as the conditions get rougher. Some manufacturers tell you to do this and the Armed Forces always do it but how many owners have simply looked at the maximum and gone no further thinking they were well within limits?

My ute has a maximum towing capacity of 1800 kg with a maximum ball weight of 180kg.  If I bought a camper trailer of say 1250 kgs with a ball weight of 120 kg I should be fine but I would have to keep it on fairly smooth roads.  The reason is the specifications also state that the end of the chassis must be lifted by a load leveling device (WDH) for any ball weigh above 90 kg.  A WDH is not practical and can cause some damage in the type of conditions camper trailers are often driven in so I can’t use one.  If I ignored that direction from the manufacturer, I would be 30 kg overweight on the ball and the chassis could be at risk.

These are just a few of the things that you have to look thoroughly into before you head off into the bush.  You can not afford to have too much heavy material way out the back on the end of the chassis.  The very best heavier aftermarket springs or air bags are not going to take it away.  They will certainly hold it up a little higher but they can not stop the end of the chassis from flexing up and down.

It is also no use saying you have weigh bridge certificates proving you were 250 kgs or whatever under GVM so your bent chassis is the car manufacturer’s fault.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2015, 01:19:02 PM by Metters »
The following users thanked this post: gutters, jetcrew, hempo, CC2005, GUEY, tk421, Fizzie

KingBilly

  • Guest
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2015, 01:34:15 PM »
Great explanation Metters  :cup:  Thanks for posting

KB

Offline jetcrew

  • "Lar's N Crew"
  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 4028
  • Thanked: 169 times
  • Gender: Male
  • The more you spend the less you go ? make sense!
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2015, 03:29:53 PM »
some great info her guys .. :cup: :cup: :cup:

Jet :D
RV POWER SOLUTIONS
sales@rvpowersolutions.com.au
Solar and RV Power Specialists
https://www.facebook.com/pages/RV-Power-Solutions/1610471999204535

Offline MDS69

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 1741
  • Thanked: 106 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2015, 03:55:27 PM »

As I said I'm no engineer but this all seems pretty obvious. It will be interesting to see if the wagon versions of the current crop of dual cab utes (Fortuna, MUX, Everest, etc) suffer the same bent chassis issues to the same extent.  Bet they don't...!

You are correct they won't because they will be coil sprung.

Also you mentioned elsewhere in your post about a ladder chassis being braced by the body of the vehicle'mounted to it but our wagon has rubber spacers to cushion the ride. It can be weird seeing the bullbar vibrating like nothing else and not feeling it in the cab. Looks like the bar is going to fall off.

Offline scrubber

  • Swag User
  • **
  • Posts: 92
  • Thanked: 10 times
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2015, 04:43:58 PM »
4x4 Australia have written an article on this in April this year
“Some national parks have long waiting lists for camping reservations. When you have to wait a year to sleep next to a tree, something is wrong.” George Carlin

Offline BaseCamp

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 1681
  • Thanked: 205 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Shake & Bake BB!
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2015, 05:30:59 PM »
Thanks Metters and Darcy7 for your huge efforts with those very informative posts..
 :cheers:
You get out and in to the world -- you take more @#&$. …You climb a little higher, ..you take less @#&$.  …Till one day -- you're up in the rarefied atmosphere -- and you've forgotten what @#&$ even looks like….  Welcome to the layer cake son.

Offline Spada

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2286
  • Thanked: 481 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #32 on: July 22, 2015, 06:08:58 PM »
:worthles:


as requested.

The ute in question



Close up showing the gap



Passenger side chassis rail



Driver side chassis rail



We've taken the tray back off and put the original tub back on, replaced the standard suspension, removed the duel battery, winch, bash plates, recovery point, UHF, trailer brakes, and some other bits and pieces. Thankfully he still had all the original stuff in the shed  :D  Hopefully the bulbar & towbar come off after the assessor has done his bit.
Spada.
76 Series Cruiser & Zone Peregrine caravan.

Offline wasn

  • Learning the Ropes
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Thanked: 2 times
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2015, 07:27:09 PM »
Is it me or they have place the flush out opening where they shouldnt have. Notice how the crease work it way toward the flush out point. I would dare to say, it woild be different if the offending holes werent there.

KingBilly

  • Guest
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2015, 07:59:23 PM »
Hey Spada, how much longer was the tray compared to the tub?

KB

Offline Spada

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2286
  • Thanked: 481 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2015, 08:37:58 PM »
Hey Spada, how much longer was the tray compared to the tub?

KB

Roughly the same length I think, maybe a touch longer ? I didn't really notice much of a difference when we changed them over. He uses the ute as a work vehicle, so a tray back is more practical for that.
Spada.
76 Series Cruiser & Zone Peregrine caravan.

Offline achjimmy

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 3255
  • Thanked: 166 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2015, 08:43:23 PM »
Disgusting to think that bt50 will be written off. No wonder insurance premiuims are ridiculous. It could be repaired and improved on.  Chassis have been bending on trucks and utes for yonks. How many old one tonners do you remember seeing bent and hardly anybody bother repairing them but when you did they were better than new.
Here for a good time, not a long time!

Jim
The following users thanked this post: Gunsrunner

Offline oldmate

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 496
  • Thanked: 1311 times
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2015, 09:10:08 PM »
Sorry metters, but your waaaayyyy to smart for this forum.  ;)
Our Blog. A work in progress
https://www.facebook.com/UltimateAdventuresBlog/

Offline Metters

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 342
  • Thanked: 37 times
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2015, 09:59:38 PM »
I would dare to say, it woild be different if the offending holes werent there.

It would not make any difference  wasn.  The side panels in chassis rails like this are just separators.  The real strength is in the top and bottom flanges.  They are either in compression or tension and do all the work.  An I beam axle under the front of a heavy truck is the same.  The single web in the centre just keeps the upper and lower flanges apart and adds little to the overall strength of the axle.

In this case the lower flange was crushed.  Had the hole been a contributing factor, I would imagine the crease would have gone straight to it.

I have seen a badly cracked Trition out in the desert.  The crack was about 5 mm wide across the top flange just in front of the front spring hanger.  It had extended about a third of the way down the sides in an area where I can't remember seeing any holes.   The car did not have air bags but it did have an extended tray with a heap of gear in it plus an extended tow bar with 220 kgs on it.  You just can't do things like that and expect to get away with it.  That car was way outside its design limits.

This old video gives you a basic insight into car testing back in the 1930s.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1gcC6RiB-I   The chassis on the vibrating test rig is being given a hell of a hard time.  The rest of the video is mainly a stunt show but the factory test programs would have been just as tough and extended to breaking point in each case.

Today's car manufacturers have had a lot of practice designing chassis and they know what they are doing.  The chassis and its number is legally the identity of the car.  If it fails and cannot be repaired economically under warranty then the whole car has to be replaced.  No manufacturer wants to be faced with a problem like that, especially when it could involve thousands of cars.

Offline prodigyrf

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 3748
  • Thanked: 187 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2015, 01:35:33 AM »
It would not make any difference  wasn.  The side panels in chassis rails like this are just separators.  The real strength is in the top and bottom flanges.  They are either in compression or tension and do all the work. 

Too true and you can see that most obviously here with this swiss cheese chassis and where the top and bottom flanges have to be furthest apart for strength-
http://www.al-ko.co.uk/pages/caravan-chassis.html

As far as the bent chassis is concerned there's no doubt the air bags were the pivot point of the long lever back to the towball which is in turn acted upon by the trailer's drawbar leverage. What we do know is is these dual cabs are very long and say a Triton chassis doesn't have the full body support of its Challenger cousin and similar for other brands so that's problem number one here. Then how much was the ute and trailer loaded and how was it distributed and what terrain was it being belted over. We can guess now the chassis is bent but was it really the fault of the airbags? My guess is while the airbags most likely disguised the overloading and impending failure, they merely shifted the bending of the chassis to the mid point of the leaf springs instead of a more likely point forard of the front mounts of the leaf springs and most likely up where the cab ends and the tray begins like so- http://www.4x4australia.com.au/drive/1504/bent-utes/

The end result is the same but it's easy to blame the air bags when there's a lot more to it than that, although to be fair air bags can give the inexperienced a false sense of security with what it's all about. It's the same old monumental human hubris in thinking anyone can possibly create a system of GCMs, ATMs, towball weights, etc that Joe Blow can keep below and everything will be apples anywhere and everywhere. Laughable and generations got by without the nonsense of it (didn't you just love that pic of the Leylands with Landrovers and the dog trailer) Still it all makes work for office jocks and helps them feel important  :cheers:   
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline Spada

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2286
  • Thanked: 481 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2015, 05:36:14 AM »
The end result is the same but it's easy to blame the air bags when there's a lot more to it than that, although to be fair air bags can give the inexperienced a false sense of security with what it's all about.

I agree. The "airbag" debate seems to ignore the issue that most of these Utes that are bent, are all bent at the same point in the chassis............whether they had airbags or not.

Whilst I agree that airbags change the suspension dynamics on a leaf sprung vehicle (wagon or ute), I think load distribution is the "big picture" that should be debated ?
Spada.
76 Series Cruiser & Zone Peregrine caravan.

Offline Swogjb

  • Hard Floor Camper User
  • *****
  • Posts: 984
  • Thanked: 13 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2015, 08:38:17 AM »
From what I have experienced and seen with airbags. They work great on the black top for carrying heavy loads and making the vehicle more stable.
Off the bitumen IMO they are a bent chassis waiting to happen.

The "Ya won't bend a Land Cruiser chassis" is bull $hit, I have seen both a single cab and a dual cab with broken backs, both fitted with airbags. If a Landcruiser is bending what hope does a Triton have

I have 75 series Cruiser ute that I put airbags on a couple of years ago. IMO the airbags made the ute handle like crap offroad when a little bit of flex was needed.

If I was only driving on road then I might consider airbags again, but for the type of driving we do both around the farm and off road, I'll go airbag less.

 :cheers:

Toyata Landcruiser TD 200 GXL
Trackabout Safari SV Extenda

Offline Darcy7

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2180
  • Thanked: 34 times
  • Gender: Male
  • The plumage doesn't enter into it.....!
    • RVeeThereYet.com
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2015, 09:07:40 AM »
It doesn't help when airbag manufacturers say this in their advertising:

Air suspension the perfect solution for load carrying.  Maintain a safe & level ride under all load & road conditions.



Visit our blog at WWW.RVeeThereYet.com

Offline jr

  • Tent User
  • ***
  • Posts: 111
  • Thanked: 7 times
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2015, 10:40:36 AM »
Not much to do with airbags but they help with the illusion of being able to carry more load.
Ill almost guarantee many of the cracked ones are overloaded let alone poor weight distribution.
Most manufacturers claim load must be equally distributed, ie between two axles, THAT means very little behind rear axle which unfortunately is all dual cabs have.
Also most claim rough off road use is severe duty and loads should have been adjusted accordingly
Full vehicle load behind rear axle also can make them fairly unstable. Newer dual cabs, the cabs get bigger and trays smaller, GVM go up
Some steel trays are very heavy and overhang increasing moment arm even further.
That hole in BT50 chassis sure looks to be in poor location.
In lighter utes, single cab chassis are made to handle this problem better.

UIZ733

  • Guest
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2015, 11:23:46 AM »
It doesn't help when airbag manufacturers say this in their advertising:

Air suspension the perfect solution for load carrying.  Maintain a safe & level ride under all load & road conditions.
Bearing in mind that MOST breakages appear to be occurring because of overloading and poor weight distribution, probably in conjunction with airbags, it is fair to assume that the airbags are being over-inflated (misused) also.
Abuse all round is the word that come to mind.

Offline Pog

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 678
  • Thanked: 18 times
  • Gender: Male
  • Insert personal text here...
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2015, 06:01:08 PM »
Saw this photo today on Stalk book. (Cape York Trip Gone Wrong' Page)



Apparently another 'Cape' Victim.

Not sure if it had airbags or not, but the design is just terrible. Too much overhand behind the axle.
2013 Toyota Prado Altitude & Challenge Outback Deluxe Offroad Camper Trailer.
MY PRADO BUILD


Offline callmejoe

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 273
  • Thanked: 21 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2015, 06:08:17 PM »
Looking at that over hang its huge.
Life's wasn't meant to be fair.
Well so I've been told. ..
The following users thanked this post: Diesel Power

Offline Spada

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 2286
  • Thanked: 481 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2015, 06:49:50 PM »
Most of these pictures have popped up already on the other "airbags in utes" threads on here, but lets not let that stop us  >:D

I have no idea if any of these have airbags or not, most likely some/most have................

But they definitely all have one thing in common, and that is they all appear to have significant weight suspended from skyhooks?

It's got me stumped why they bent  ??? ...........








Spada.
76 Series Cruiser & Zone Peregrine caravan.

Offline Metters

  • Soft Floor Camper User
  • ****
  • Posts: 342
  • Thanked: 37 times
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2015, 08:30:58 PM »
I have no idea if any of these have airbags or not, most likely some/most have..


The Triton at the top does have them, the Hilux under it does not.  I don't know what the others have.  It looks like the rope up to their skyhooks has broken on all of them.

Its the same old story though, their owners are expecting them to carry an F series load, poorly disrtibuted,  in the worst conditions they are ever likely to be driven in.  You can't do it and expect any degree of reliability. 

I posted this email from Mitsubishi on this site about two years ago.  It is on towing capacities but the same applies to carrying.  Both must be reduced for off road conditions.


Dear Mr O’Keefe,
Case Reference Number HQ-123456
We acknowledge receipt and thank you for your recent enquiry regarding the Mitsubishi Triton.
Please be advised that Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd (MMAL) only release towing
specifications for vehicles being used under normal conditions such as highway driving. We would not recommend towing this amount while driving on 4WD tracks or surfaces of this nature. The 3 Tonne towing capacity is a statement of the maximum permissible towing weight possible for this vehicle.
Thank you again for your enquiry.
Kind Regards,
Simon
Mitsubishi Customer Assistance Centre
Mitsubishi Motors Australia Ltd
GPO Box 1851 Adelaide SA 5001

Even then you need more information than that before you roar off into the bush.  The two most obvious questions would be how far below maximum should you go in the conditions you intend driving through and what is the maximum ball weight for those conditions?

As for air bags: on another forum a couple of years ago, Collyn Rivers answered someone's question on air bags by saying they can be useful for softening the ride on a harsh ridding unladen ute but they should not be used for raising sagged suspensions or carrying extra weight.  It was either in that answer or another one that he mentioned the destructive forces they can generate.  This comes about by the fact that they are an exponential spring.  They can and sometimes do create serious problems in aftermarket installations.

If anyone is wondering who he is and what he would know about the subject, this link should help.  http://caravanandmotorhomebooks.com/collyn-rivers/#

Offline briann532

  • Hard Top Camper User
  • ******
  • Posts: 1838
  • Thanked: 69 times
  • Gender: Male
Re: Air bags on Utes , don't do it !
« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2015, 08:45:00 PM »
I realise I'm taking this slightly off topic, but I have airbags in my playdo.

I think they are fantastic. I put about 8-10 psi in them when towing the hawk as I found without them it tended to bounce a lot in the rear on the rough bumps and dirt tracks .
Installed the airbags and it took this out completely. I can still drive with or without them as they are not for carrying "extra" load or weight, just to reduce the severity of bumps.
I guess from a very non technical point of view, to stiffen up the springs.

That said, I'm getting an upgrade of the towing capacity for the new van and one of the things they do is install airbags in the rear.
I assume there will be a slight increase in towball weight,  but I'm expecting around 220kgs. (from what they have told me)
I've never actually weighed the new hawk, but it can't be far off that anyway.
Accepting that this is a playdo not a ute.............

BUT...................
Can anyone see any trouble or problems with what I'm trying to do.
And before you tell me to buy a landsnoozer, NO....
I can't afford the Retreat and a new cruiser.
I have been led to believe the towing capacity of the playdo is rated higher overseas and have been told that this is so they can sell more 200's.....
I realise talk is cheap, but surely the playdo is up to the task????
I see heaps of them towing 2.5 tonne vans............  ??? ??? ???

Any help comments or criticism?
Brian
Back to a swag!
BitsiShity Tryton
Spending most of my time at the farm in Dalton!