Know your Weight Impact on Vehicle and CT GVM - an awareness issue

[chookduck]

I write this long piece as an awareness thread for those MySwaggers who are unaware of the pitfalls of overloading, particularly through inadvertent overloading through a long and detailed accessory addition to their vehicle and Camper Trailer, and exceeding their Gross Vehicle Mass.  The catalyst for this thread came from another thread http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=21129.msg552246#msg552246 which resulted in some colourful discussion.  i also have no affiliation with any new or after market companies - just an worker for Defence.

I realise there are many threads that contain snippets to GVM, but none easily found that explains this area. I welcome constructive comment and feedback to provide awareness to fellow MySwaggers.
 
Bad case scenario – your tow vehicle unknowingly to you is over its legal GVM, towing a Camper Trailer and involved in an at fault accident with personal injuries.  If the accident is properly investigated by the appropriate authorities and your vehicle or Camper Trailer is deemed to be over its legal GVM, you will most likely not be covered by your Car and/or Camper insurance for both you and your property and well as any others involved in your ‘at fault’ accident.  A very emotional and super expensive exercise.

The usable payload of many new 4WD vehicles today has gradually decreased over time compared with their predecessors.  20 years ago the 80 Series Landcruiser GXL Turbo Diesel had a usable payload of 730 kg. Today looking at the Toyota website for the Landcruiser 200 Series Turbo Diesel we see a usable payload of 620 kg.  Furthermore the Kerb Weight of the 200 Series has increased by some 500 kg compared to the 80 Series.  Similarly, Gross Vehicle Mass has increased from 2960 kg for the 80 series to 3350 kg for the 200 series.  However, along with this weight increase comes a range of improved comfort, safety, traction aids and arguably reliability.  Other mainstream 4WDs have likewise increased in overall weight with a decrease in usable payload.  Additional basic camping gear and some common optional extras, a full fuel load and four adult occupants will bring the vehicle close to, or in some cases exceed, its legal maximum Gross Vehicle Mass.  Now add common vehicle accessories and options such as bull bars and winches, dual batteries, side steps, roof racks, stronger under body protection, mud terrain tyres, cargo barriers, recovery gear, long range fuel tanks, radios, water, extra lights, drawer systems, portable refrigerators, towball weights from Camper Trailers and caravans, and camping equipment and the vehicle will very quickly exceed its allowable Gross Vehicle Mass.  So, what does this all mean?

Most vehicle manufactures detail their Kerb or Tare Weight and GVM in their respective brochures and websites.  While the Tare or Kerb weights are usually defined as the ‘unladen’ weight of the vehicle or trailer, some manufacturers include fuel while others do not.  E.g., on Ford’s website the Ford Ranger kerb weight includes a full tank of fuel whereas Kerb weights for Toyota’s vehicles do not include any fuel.  You need to be aware of what comprises your kerb weight.  Of more importance however is Gross Vehicle Mass or GVM.

GVM is the maximum a vehicle can weigh when fully loaded including fuel, weight on the towball from a Camper Trailer or caravan etc, other added accessories/modifications, your passengers and all cargo.  All vehicles have a legal GVM as part of the vehicle manufacturer's overall Australian Design Rules (ADR) approval. If your vehicle exceeds these limits you could be fined, void your insurance conditions and make your vehicle unsafe.

So where do you find your vehicle's GVM?  The GVM of your vehicle should be stamped on a Compliance Plate located in the engine bay.

Exceeding your GVM will deem your vehicle and/or Camper Trailer as being not roadworthy. The NSW Government Roads and Maritime Services (RMS) states that the responsibility for ensuring that a vehicle is roadworthy rests with its owner. It is the owner’s responsibility to ensure that the vehicle in its modified form continues to comply with the Road Transport (Vehicle Registration) Regulation 2007 and Australian Design Rules; and that the modifications do not reduce the strength, controllability or level of safety of the vehicle.  See http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib29.pdf and http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_2007.pdf for more information.

RMS further advises that owners should also check with their insurance companies before making any alterations to their vehicle as some modifications can affect the insurance cover.  In one mainstream insurance company’s Caravan/Camper Trailer PDS, in the section “Are you Covered?” you find the following statements answered as NO:

If the car towing or attached to your caravan was carrying more passengers or loaded above the legal limit or loaded in an illegal way.

If your caravan [camper trailer] was loaded above the legal limit or loaded in an illegal way.

The above not only applies to the vehicle’s GVM, but also other areas like roof rack limits.  Just because a roof rack is designed to carry 100 kg, this does not necessarily mean the roof of your vehicle is rated for 100 kg.  Check with your vehicle manufacturer or in your vehicle handbook.  Remember, the total roof weight limit includes the roof rack and its cargo.  Full length steel roof racks can weigh up to 50 kg+ empty.

So roughly how much can you add to your vehicle?  Usable payload is normally calculated by subtracting the kerb weight from the GVM.  E.g., let’s assume a kerb weight (not including fuel) of a large 4WD wagon of 2750kg and a GVM of 3350 kg.  We calculate the usable payload as 3350 kg – 2750 kg = 600 kg.  Now all your cargo, fuel, passengers and added accessories and modifications combined weight needs to come in under 600 kgs, otherwise you will exceed your GVM and be considered not roadworthy.  In this case, four 70 kg adults and 130 litres of fuel (104 kg) already accounts for 384 kg leaving you only 216 kg for accessories and modifications.

If you have doubts as to whether you have exceeded your GVM, you should probably weigh your vehicle at a registered weighbridge in the configuration that you would be using.  What do you do if you are over the GVM or are considering modifications that will take you over the GVM?  There are several companies that are properly certified to undertake GVM upgrades.  Just Google ‘gvm upgrade’ to see some options.

A number of MySwaggers have undertaken this approach and I would invite them to share their experiences about how to be properly certified for a GVM increase.

[scarps]

Great article, good read, timely reminder on an important topic.

In my case, I replaced 2 of the 4 adults with a long range fuel tank. (Kids have grown up, drive their own 4wd/car with their own camping gear. (Other benefit here is I haven't had to listen to 'are we there yet?' For a few years.

I also didn't take the second water tank option on the CT as this would sit in front of the CT axle and add more weight onto the towball.

[Mace]

People know my thoughts on this!

Far too many persons have either no idea of, or no regard for vehicle GVM and towing capacities and worry me on the road when they pass going the other way.

http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26576.msg411579#msg411579

First pic from my previous thread, second from a recent accident on the monash. Both tugs were rodeos. Either may or may not be just legal, but when you are close to or over GVM margin for error is minimal.

Good topic which deserves it's own thread.

[02-SR5]

It's pretty simple really.

People just take to much sh!t.

Do you really need all those tools? I know blokes that pack their entire tool chest.

Do you really need all those spares? Do you really need 2 spare wheels, axle, CV and shocks?

I have seen too many set ups where they pack everything, including the TV.

Have a look what the Leyland brothers, Alby Mangles packed, sweet fk all.

[GeoffA]

The simple solution is.......don't crash......

[areyonga]

The simple solution is.......don't crash......

Mightnt be that simple, there are reports of Road Traffic Authority (NSW) randomly pulling over vehicles that are towing and running them over the scales. 

A good report and I think there are a number of vehicles and trailers out there that are over GVM unknown to the drivers.

Trevor

[Hairs]

It's pretty simple really.

People just take to much sh!t.

Do you really need all those tools? I know blokes that pack their entire tool chest.

Do you really need all those spares? Do you really need 2 spare wheels, axle, CV and shocks?

I have seen too many set ups where they pack everything, including the TV.

Have a look what the Leyland brothers, Alby Mangles packed, sweet fk all.

[doc evil]

It's pretty simple really.

People just take to much sh!t.

Do you really need all those tools? I know blokes that pack their entire tool chest.

Do you really need all those spares? Do you really need 2 spare wheels, axle, CV and shocks?

I have seen too many set ups where they pack everything, including the TV.

Have a look what the Leyland brothers, Alby Mangles packed, sweet fk all.

FFS...............

That's fine for tootling along the bitumen up and down the east coast where there is road side service.
Get off the beaten track (and I mean remote) you are nucking futs if you take less than 2 spares................let alone additional water etc,
How many shocks have been chewed up on the Canning?? Be my guest when you do the Canning and don't take a spare shock. Oh, you left ya tools at home with the shock to replace it............

Grow up people, yes pack wisely, take what you need, but head bush WITHOUT the bare minimum (especially inexperienced people) and there WILL be more deaths.

Safety first. If you want to risk your families lives by heeding some of the stupidity mentioned above, it's fine by me, just dont whinge and moan the next time the news spits out that another family/person has perished in the desert....................

[shaned]

You can't compare the towing dynamics of a 5th wheeler to a normal caravan, the one pictured in mace's first  photo is claimed to weigh 3300kgs, also has 700kg on the gooseneck, so the rodeo is really only towing 2600kg and carrying 700kgs on it's back (dry weight of course) and also has the massive advantage of having weight between the wheels at the back and on the gooseneck, less rear overhang than a normal caravan making it far more superior in handling and cornering.
The second, much more dramatic photo is standard very large caravan, completely different animal to tow, no background on how it came a gutsa, could've been another party at fault, or 100% driver error.

That block of flats will most certainly catch the wind, but would much rather see this set up on the road than a normal caravan'

On the GVM/GCM note, I run at my maximun GVM but am aware of it, my poverty pack 105 series cruiser had approx 830 kg payload, lack of "impress the neighbors" bits gave it a weight advantage over flashier model variants, at the moment on a good day its just a tad under 2900kg, gvm is 3250kg, by the time the family clothes go in and the camper on the back, its overweight with full tanks of fuel, but under when they have come down, the camper is also borderline within weight limits, always walking the fine line when we leave home, how the hell can ANY 200 series owners comply with the GVM placed on there vehicle is beyond me especially with family's.

A good point has been raised here, but EVERYBODY should know what there outfit weighs, but will it change much?

[muzza01]

Have a look what the Leyland brothers, Alby Mangles packed, sweet fk all.

Yep Alby Mangles took bugger all spares and hardly any tools but he always packed a very cute bikini clad hottie for companionship

[kylarama]

Yep Alby Mangles took bugger all spares and hardly any tools but he always packed a very cute bikini clad hottie for companionship

Great way to take your mind off your flogged out shocks and busted CV.

[Homer_Jay]

I am yet to hear of anyone who has been pulled over by the scalies and done for being over gcm. Yep, plenty of stories of ...'mates of a a mates, uncles cousins, gay lovers, sister apparently got done and was sentenced to the electric chair' type of stories.

Most people are over by not much. If there is a bad accident and they decide to weight your combination, then you and your mrs is not going to  sitting in the truck. That's about 150kgs in our situation.

Really, FFS there is more to worry about than that.

If the insurance company was really that inclined to 'not pay' then I'm sure they could find something not roadworthy with almost any car on the road.

[DannyG]

I'm within all weights on my setup but I'm sure there are plenty out there that aren't.

I have to say though that I carry a basic tool kit and some essential spares but I have never carried 2 spares for the vehicle or spare shocks. I can repair most punctures and I can bounce my way out of trouble if I break a shock  

[Hairs]

A good point has been raised here, but EVERYBODY should know what their outfit weighs, but will it change much?

Spot on mate,
 As mentioned, Touring up & down major highways compared to remote travel is completely different, people have gotta get a grip and be prepared for where they are traveling.
When ever towing weight issues come up,
It reminds me of a post in another forum where a chap couldn't understand why his fuel economy in his 200 series was shocking while towing.
Took his vehicle to the Toyota dealership because it was still under warranty, they tested & tested, all was good.
Yet when his towed, his economy was shot to sh1t. 
He mentioned this to a caravan park owner, who suggested to go through the Van, caue there is a lot of cupboard and storage space hidden from view.
What they found was his wife had been collecting SPOONS at every stop on their travels.
Instead of posting the spoon back home or to relatives, she had been hoarding them in every nook & cranky in the van.

Weight is what is necessary,
Ya don't use it, lose it.   

Homer_Jay,
That's a pretty silly way of looking at it.
You go ya hardest and load your camper, vehicle beyond it capacity .
Cause IT WILL bite ya one day.
 

[Homer_Jay]

Mate, mine is legal. I have had it over a weigh bridge.
I know my weights and load accordingly.

But these discussions come up on all the forums and no one has even had a fist hand experience of it ever coming back to 'bite them'.

Some people like to make out the end of the world is nigh, if you 10kgs over your legal limit.

How many of these medium duty dual cabs are over the limit out there? They have a towing capacity of 3-3.5t BUT the gvm of the car is reduced if full towing capacity is used. No one seems to recognise this fact! But I don't see too many being pulled over and put on the scales?

[02-SR5]

FFS...............

That's fine for tootling along the bitumen up and down the east coast where there is road side service.
Get off the beaten track (and I mean remote) you are nucking futs if you take less than 2 spares................let alone additional water etc,
How many shocks have been chewed up on the Canning?? Be my guest when you do the Canning and don't take a spare shock. Oh, you left ya tools at home with the shock to replace it............

Grow up people, yes pack wisely, take what you need, but head bush WITHOUT the bare minimum (especially inexperienced people) and there WILL be more deaths.

Safety first. If you want to risk your families lives by heeding some of the stupidity mentioned above, it's fine by me, just dont whinge and moan the next time the news spits out that another family/person has perished in the desert....................

The shocks break because there is an entire tool chest in the back sitting on top of shocks, axles and spare wheels.

All our NORFORCE Patrols get around in stock standard troop carriers. Gov issued.

No bling, just an ARB bar and roof rack.

You drive to the terrain, take your time, keep it simple and you will get through.

I have traveled extensively up through the top end, places where the "white fella" can't go, trust me when I say this, you don't need all that crap they say you need.

Christ, if the locals can get around Maningrida in an old XF falcon, then most of us will manage in a set up 4wd.

Keep it light, keep it simple, use common sense, and you make it home in one piece.

[Pog]

I haven't weighed my camper or Prado, but I would like to. I am sure I have no issues, because I unpack 1/2 of what the wife packs before we leave.

This thread is a good one to raise awareness on the issue of weight, of which, if I loose 20kgs, then I could ack another carton?

[Barry G]

Indeed, XF Fords Holden Kingswoods and their predecessors were what 'everyone' drove to do the Birdsvile Track, etc. until removal of tariffs on imported vehicles, deregulation of the Ausie dollar andsalary sacrificing of 'work' vehicles, for those who are eligible, made Jap 4x4s affordable for the masses
And back in the 'olden days' (late '70s / early '80s) there was far less bitumen out there, so people HAD to drive to the conditions. But families. Still got through safely.
As to what you "need" to save your life, there are precious few who have died over the years from breakdown, as distinct from stupidity.  For example, the well known case of the pommie family migrating between towns who perished on the Birdsville Track in the 1950s... Not a breakdown, he was a fuel miser who reckoned he could get through without re-filling, having taken a wrong turn they then ran out of fuel, and topped it off by leaving the vehicle.  Even back then, with far fewer vehicles on the road than today, the car was soon found, but the family wasn't with it.
On even the remotest track, if you tell the police in the town where you start where you are headed and 'ETA' and report in when you get there then all should be fine.  If you are a 'no show' then a search would be commenced, especially if you are doing similar with a family member who doesn't hear from you in time.
Likewise, for REAL emergencies an EPIRB / 'Spot' or sat phone is what you need. They can be life savers, and don't weigh much.  Most everything else is just an inconvenience, and will maybe cost you a few days and $ to get the vehicle retrieved.

[MarkGU]

a good example of overloading........the Falcon towing this has no chance of making a sudden stop safely........not to mention how that trailer is coping with that weight on it 

[Pog]

a good example of overloading........the Falcon towing this has no chance of making a sudden stop safely........not to mention how that trailer is coping with that weight on it 

It's sitting level... What else is there to worry about?

[MarkGU]

It's sitting level... What else is there to worry about?

so no brakes on the trailer doesnt worry you?

[kylarama]

so no brakes on the trailer doesnt worry you?

The whole trailer is a bit of a worry...
A Falcon can tow 2300kg, a VT wagon would weigh around 1700kg, a proper car tandem is probably 500 - 700kg, so it would be borderline legal even with a good braked trailer.

Also a closer look in the pic also shows the Falcon is only fitted with a light duty 1600kg towbar.

[MarkGU]

The whole trailer is a bit of a worry...
A Falcon can tow 2300kg, a VT wagon would weigh around 1700kg, a proper car tandem is probably 500 - 700kg, so it would be borderline legal even with a good braked trailer.

Also a closer look in the pic also shows the Falcon is only fitted with a light duty 1600kg towbar.

yep, add into that the maximum load limit on that single axle trailer, even look at the draw bar on the trailer.........yeah plenty to worry about coming at you at 100 klm/h   

[chisel]

Not that I'm advocating overloading, but do we have any documented cases where insurance has been denied due to a vehicle (towing or otherwise) being over GVM?  Can't say I've ever heard about it.  Many (most?) 100 series landcruisers that are setup for touring/offroad would be over GVM when loaded up.  I've never heard of an issue - but would like to know about it.

[Symon]

And back in the 'olden days' (late '70s / early '80s) there was far less bitumen out there, so people HAD to drive to the conditions. But families. Still got through safely.

Isn't nostalgia a wonderful thing, everything was so great back then.  Politicians were honest, young people respected their elders, etc etc.

Back in the 70's and 80's there were plenty of vehicle rollovers and crashes on remote roads.  With the absence of sat phones and the fewer amount of people travelling in such areas help was difficult to obtain quickly.  Yes people did get through, but there were plenty of fatalities as well.