Chainsaw Safety - Should the use of PPE be legislated?

[briann532]

I see so many dayglo shirts on people these days its just the norm.
It no longer stands out so whats the point???

Drive along any city street and you see so many signs that all the warning are no longer valid they just blend in as another sign.
We are so "overinformed" its not funny.

When is legislation going to allow for quality judgement?
If you do something silly and get hurt then the only person accountable should be you.

If I'm caught drink driving when someone else hits me its my fault as I should not have been on the road.
So If I'm using a chainsaw without ppe, shouldn't any incidents be my fault?

How about a system where "idiot" pays.
If I go walkabout without adequate supplies, by all means, save me, but give a bill for my actions.....Rescues aren't cheap.
If I cut my leg using a chainsaw without ppe, bill me for the ambos hospital etc.

Start charging stupid people instead of encouraging them...........

[Crisp Image]

I always use the fancy pants (as my kids cal them) along with ear and eye protection.
I am trained and hold a trim and cross cut ticket. Even doing maintenance if the chain is going to spin then the gear goes on.
In the shed using tools the same applies there too. My kids even have safety glasses and ear muffs for the shed.
$100 for chaps sure beats $1000's in rehab or medical bills.
Wear it or lose it.
If I see you with out it I have a duty of care to tell you that you are doing the wrong thing but after that it is up to you.

Regards
Crisp Image

[poidda]

Aren't we enough of a nanny state as it is?  Before long I'll need a ticket and proper training to go to the toilet safely.

Recently at my work a howto sign has gone up on every set of stairs to explain the rules of using the stairs.

Seriously, we are getting more American my the day and that isn't where I want to be any time soon.

[FJWALLY]

I think you cannot legislate over personal protection - just impossible to police it.
"Oh dear mr Nob - did you forget to put your safety goggles on before cutting that tree down?"
"No way miss nurse - had em on - didn't work" - cannot be done effectively.

What should be done is legislate the mandatory safety courses for the machinery that is most dangerous - like chainsaws - I have used one for many years off and on so feel quite comfortable using them but have seen many back yarders pick one up for the first time and do every thing possibly wrong that endangers their safety - The likes of bunnings etc selling chainsaws is ridiculous i think - have to have someone with experience selling them - no different to guns in that respect.

I also advocate the use of PPE in the home - I hate them but I always wear earmuffs when using powertools including mower and brushcutter and I have a set for each of my boys if they want to be in the vacinity also they have to wear them as their ears /eyes are in better condition than mine so I  want that to stay that way.

[briann532]

Aren't we enough of a nanny state as it is?  Before long I'll need a ticket and proper training to go to the toilet safely.

Recently at my work a howto sign has gone up on every set of stairs to explain the rules of using the stairs.

Seriously, we are getting more American my the day and that isn't where I want to be any time soon.

Although I agree absolutely entirely with what you have said, I must ask.................

Did the person putting the sign up have the appropriate PPe on at the time?

 

I'll soon have a yankee flag to go with the myswag flag

Brian

[koshari]

Many large organisations that have big uni-grad type safety functional training programs tend to create a rod for their own back by trying to better themselves and 'pioneer' safety, with straight out of school subject matter experts.

People with experience in the profession, I class experience as people who have worked outside the profession, are few and far between. There's plenty of safety cops out there - also known as cowboys (they seem to know everything and are often very ineffective and most folk seem to hate them!).

Practical interpretation of the Act is where it's easy to get caught up, if it doesn't achieve anything (some paper work doesn't achieve anything, or it loses it's designed effect quickly) it shouldn't be implemented.

I'd be pretty nervous if I was an officer of a corporation, you can get directors liability insurance which will assist in the event of a prosecution; but it won't stop you going to gaol.

Everyone hates it 'this extra safety crap is bull****' I hear it every day, on every site, in every industry. People blame the employer, or the safety bloke or the manager etc. The law is the law, if you need someone to blame - blame morons who go to work affected by drugs or alcohol (etc.). Seriously freaking ridiculous the amount of people that are affected but substances whilst at work.

Very well written, and unfortunately far to common.

[cdustbehindme]

Legislation is not always the answer, as someone said earlier hard to catch people out in the bush if they arnt doing what they are supposed too and this is where the risk of threat to life is increased due to geographic isolation.....

I think the important thing here is Education!!  People need to know the dangers associated with using a chainsaw and the risk of not using appropriate PPE...  

It drives me insane when I see adds on tv and backyard shows where people dont wear PPE when using the chainsaw, then they pick up a circular saw or some other thing and instantly on goes all the PPE, wat the?

Knowing how to use a saw properly helps reduce injury, that is absoloutely correct and been shown how to hold it is not enough.  Anyone who has got their ticket will know how much they learnt (and many of those would have been using saws already)  There are different stances for different cuts and it it is dependant on where the timber is you are cutting, ther is awareness of the environment you are in, the people around you, needing to know how the timber is going to react when you cut it, where are the tension poinjts, will the weight shift the timber once its cut, will the branch shift....  plenty of things that can knock you on the head because you have been sawing.....  Applying the chainbreak all the time so there are no accidents.......    Im going on and on and I could say a lot more!

Correct PPE and training is essential for using chainsaws, dont risk your life or that of others. Information and education thats what I think is the key, especially for those of us that like been miles away from civilisation and hospitals and ambulances.....

[DANBRI]

Recently at my work a howto sign has gone up on every set of stairs to explain the rules of using the stairs.

This is what I mean by cowboys, your safety person needs to be shot. This kind of 'over doing it' is what gives safety a bad name. There's a fine line, and if you're constructive enough with your reasons for not deeming a hazard as a significant enough risk (like a staircase) and you can show you've acted on serious risks, the employer will be able to demonstrate their due diligence.

When I implement a measure, my credibility is on the line - so the reason for implementation needs to be very, very particular and effective.

[christofurry]

Im a civil engineer working for a top tier company that has a couple of billion dollar of work at hand, in particular roads. Ive been responsible for the management of killing trees (essentially thats what it is) for the last three years on four different large scale road projects. To use a chainsaw on any on my sites there are a few things that needs to be done...

As far as PPE:
Long sleeve shirt
Long pants
Cut proof chaps
Safety boots
Hard hat
Ear protection
DOUBLE eye protection (safety glases and face shield)
Gloves

These are just normal site rules.

You need to have a ticket, AND be competancy assessed. That means once youve signed onto and unsderstand the SWMS  someone with the equivelent ticket or higher needs to watch you work and see if you actually know what you are doing. You can see people a mile off what havent got a clue when you watch guys on saws for a living. 

Now to climb a tree... thats a whole different ball game

[gibbo301]

This bloke dont wear leather chaps bu he does were a leather mask 

[christofurry]

Now do I think PPE should be mandatory....

Im fully qualified to cross cut and fell trees, I regularly use chainsaws at work for fun and on weekends. My old man runs a buisness that sells Sthil saws and I just brought a new one myself (cost price of course).

Im a firm beliver that if you are going to use a saw you do so at your own risk. Ill wear the full suite at work. On weekends, safety boots, long pants, safety glasses (my everyday sunnies are medium impact AS1337), chaps and ear protection if Im going to be on a saw for a while...anything less and if bad things happen you is serious sh!t

[Bird]

Recently at my work a howto sign has gone up on every set of stairs to explain the rules of using the stairs.

So, what are the rules?



As for PPE, people will do what they want regardless...

We dont need more rules protecting ourselves from ourselves.. it helps with natural selection.

[cdustbehindme]

throw a sideways one in..  What about the poor buggers that havnt had someone to show them, or havnt grown up with saws, even tools in general (which there are more of these days).  They go to the shop, buy a chainsaw and then hoe into it... hmmm  now they havnt had the opportunity to learn common sense with practical items and could be quite smart in other areas....  legislation, education and definitely PPE would help them

[D4D]

I don't think this is limited to chainsaws. Any angle grinder, circular saw etc can inflict the same damage. I wonder how the power tool companies and Bunnings can get away without a duty of care...

[carinya]

People are using the term "common sense".  No such thing, and after seeing the children of a lesser god where I work, neither would anyone else.
Common means there is a lot of it about.  This is not the case.  There is good sense and nonsense.

I don't use a saw a lot but when I do I don't have on all the gear. I use ear and eye protection for  jobs involving power tools and I work in safety boots all the time anyway.

Never forget the time I was holding  a rail straight for the old man to shape the end for use as a fence stay.

The old bloke has done decades of fencing and scrub cutting so his saw work is pretty handy, but he bumped the saw on the nose coming in and it bucked forward towards my face.  Luckily he was able to hold it and I was smart enough to be far enough down the rail so he couldn't reach me.

That would  have been one cool scar if it ever healed, but it shows how easily things can go wrong.

That being said I think most  of us would have seen someone operating a saw who probably should not have been.
Like the guy I was fencing with a while back, had a new saw, not too handy with it but loved to use it.  We put in two posts to swing a gate and I joked that he should check to see if they were in line, just the two of them.  He did.

[Bird]

I don't think this is limited to chainsaws. Any angle grinder, circular saw etc can inflict the same damage.

I was thinking about that too. But where do you draw the line? Screwdrivers, hammers, plyers, nailfiles, reams of paper, rubber gloves

I wonder how the power tool companies and Bunnings can get away without a duty of care...

would be interesting to see someone take that one to court, but then if they won, I don't think there'd be *any* tool left forsale anywhere in australia.


There has to be a point in time when people take responsibililty for their own actions. maybe I'm on the good Shit expecting this to happen one day...

[GLC]

throw a stick of dynamite in here, maybe you shouldnt be able to buy one without a license?

[Bill]

If it is mandatory to use PPE in the workplace for any reason than do it or lose your job. That is how I feel about it anyway.
In this world we live in there is NO excuse for someone who buys a hand power tool (or any other tool for that matter) and NOT be able to properly use it. The internet alone has millions of videos on how to use almost every sort of tool there is on the market. And if someone does not have the internet then they need to just ask around and I' am sure they will know someone who can show them how to properly use a tool.
Bill and Morag

[D4D]

maybe you shouldnt be able to buy one without a license?

I'll go one step further, you should need a licence to procreate

[FZJ]

I'll go one step further, you should need a licence to procreate

Might be the first time I would go D.U.I.........

[LJs GU]

I'll go one step further, you should need a licence to procreate

As long as you don't need one to practice. 

[D4D]

As long as you don't need one to practice. 

Joolia will find a way to tax that too

[koshari]

I don't think this is limited to chainsaws. Any angle grinder, circular saw etc can inflict the same damage. I wonder how the power tool companies and Bunnings can get away without a duty of care...

especially the old 9" , they kick like a mule, can be very dangerous in the wrong hands.

[dno]

And people wonder why things (or services) are so dear in OZ......
Said it before, this country's going down the crapper.

[Geoffwin]

Legislation is not always the answer, as someone said earlier hard to catch people out in the bush if they arnt doing what they are supposed too and this is where the risk of threat to life is increased due to geographic isolation.....

I think the important thing here is Education!!  People need to know the dangers associated with using a chainsaw and the risk of not using appropriate PPE...  

Can only agree, it is not a matter of "catching" people out but a matter of informing them of the danger. You will never convince everyone of the need for certain things to be done but they need to be aware of the consequences of not doing something - especially of they are employed to do a job.

The employer and right down the work chain are responsible for safety and unfortunately it sometimes takes an accident to convince some of the need for safety as well as their personal liability for that safety.

For personal use the decision is yours if you hurt yourself, if you hurt someone else it is an entirely different story. Common sense generally covers most safety aspects, training / education covers most others.

Seat belts are a classic example but you still see people who do not use them.