Post by: Chappie on July 12, 2019, 03:01:43 PM
Is there something I can do / check that might be an easy fix.
One of my other kids had a mate that said very confidently that it was the Ram?
Any ideas where I might start, the local computer shop told the minister for finance and warfare that it would be cheaper to buy a new one. I am not sure how he knows how much it will cost to fix, he may be right.
Thanks in advance.
Iain.
Post by: austastar on July 12, 2019, 03:18:43 PM
Check the main switch is not sticking on. That will cause it to start and cancel.
Cheers
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Post by: noel_w on July 12, 2019, 03:49:11 PM
Post by: Bird on July 12, 2019, 04:38:40 PM
Remove everything not required from the PC.. so only plug in the monitor, keyboard, mouse and power - and try a few times...
As said reseating the RAM can sometimes work, but it can be anyone of 1230923498203940239 things :( mate had a power button go south on his and was intermittent PITA to find...
Post by: saph on July 12, 2019, 05:17:33 PM
Also
Might be an idea to reseat the RAM. If the contacts/pins get a little bit of corrosion on it they don't work to well. Removing and reseating usually will fix it. You can clean the contact area with contact cleaner or a rubber eraser. Just make sure you ground yourself at all stages to prevent static electricity. Just saying, do this at your own risk lol.the RAM pins are gold plated 99% of eletrics in pc's are plated with gold they wont rust.
Post by: noel_w on July 12, 2019, 06:46:46 PM
Could be anything i would check any switch's or connections on the power plugsNever said they would rust...
Also the RAM pins are gold plated 99% of eletrics in pc's are plated with gold they wont rust.
And the gold plating is infitismally thin. They do get a corrosion film on them especially if near coastal areas or if high humidity
Post by: Bird on July 12, 2019, 06:49:10 PM
Never said they would rust...we use dell's at work and we've tried upgrading ram with all sorts of memory.. none works but the Factory Dell Shit... but their prices are insane... bought 32g of aftermarket for <170, dell 8g $220....
And the gold plating is infitismally thin. They do get a corrosion film on them especially if near coastal areas or if high humidity
Post by: saph on July 12, 2019, 07:59:10 PM
we use dell's at work and we've tried upgrading ram with all sorts of memory.. none works but the Factory Dell Shit... but their prices are insane... bought 32g of aftermarket for <170, dell 8g $220....
Thats dell for you they seem to only like their stuff.
Never said they would rust...
And the gold plating is infitismally thin. They do get a corrosion film on them especially if near coastal areas or if high humidity
Thats funny ive had computers for 5+ years and i live next to the water and had 0 corrosion issues, maybe your just removing and reinserting it so much you wear away any gold plating.
Free to post proof to show me otherwise btw.
Post by: paceman on July 12, 2019, 08:49:11 PM
Thats dell for you they seem to only like their stuff.
Thats funny ive had computers for 5+ years and i live next to the water and had 0 corrosion issues, maybe your just removing and reinserting it so much you wear away any gold plating.
Free to post proof to show me otherwise btw.
Or you could just accept Noel at his word, seeing as how he has forgotten more about computers and hardware than I’ll ever know, and I’ve been in the game for 20+ years...
The corrosion on ram doesn’t have to be rust... it can just be a contaminant like dust particles that interfere with data/signal transfer... exactly why a reseat and clean of ram modules can sometimes do the trick for a myriad of weird little issues... the reseat and clean dislodges a contaminant and you’re good to go...
Have recently been through this myself, with ram playing up and a clean with isopropyl alcohol did the trick.
Might be worthwhile, if game, to test your power supply with a multimeter, but if not confident, get it tested or buy a specific power supply tester to make sure voltages are as they should be...
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Post by: Troopy_03 on July 12, 2019, 09:00:05 PM
Never said they would rust...
And the gold plating is infitismally thin. They do get a corrosion film on them especially if near coastal areas or if high humidity
I agree that removing, cleaning and reseating might fix RAM issues too (and I've had computers since the early 90's ;-) )
For OP, are you getting any POST (Power On Self Test) beeps? Does the HDD appear to be active? Is any thing appearing on the screen at all? Is the monitor actually working, or does it have a dodgy connection?
Post by: bkim on July 13, 2019, 12:39:51 AM
Or you could just accept Noel at his word, seeing as how he has forgotten more about computers and hardware than I’ll ever know, and I’ve been in the game for 20+ years...
The corrosion on ram doesn’t have to be rust... it can just be a contaminant like dust particles that interfere with data/signal transfer... exactly why a reseat and clean of ram modules can sometimes do the trick for a myriad of weird little issues... the reseat and clean dislodges a contaminant and you’re good to go...
Have recently been through this myself, with ram playing up and a clean with isopropyl alcohol did the trick.
Might be worthwhile, if game, to test your power supply with a multimeter, but if not confident, get it tested or buy a specific power supply tester to make sure voltages are as they should be...
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Totally agree! it's very common here during the summer months with the humidity to have problems with ram and also video cards (not so commonly installed in most non gaming machines nowadays), I would have to check several of my friends and relations most years at this time for problems, as Bird said it can almost be anything that can cause problems, you just start with the most likely possibilities first.
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on July 13, 2019, 07:24:08 AM
Post by: Fizzie on July 13, 2019, 07:52:54 AM
Possibly the back-up battery (10c coin size) ???
Post by: glenm64 on July 13, 2019, 08:01:58 AM
Cheers Glen
Post by: gronk on July 13, 2019, 08:18:12 AM
My expertise starts and stops here. Plug it in!
Cheers Glen
X1.........get a small hammer and give it a tap.......if that doesn't work, get a bigger hammer !! ;D
Post by: jwb on July 13, 2019, 09:31:43 AM
A new wired keyboard installed and all sweet!
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Post by: Chappie on July 13, 2019, 10:51:55 AM
I have plugged the monitor and power only and it is tries to start, fans kick in and the power button comes on, but then it goes for anywhere between 5 to 30 seconds it turns off for around 5 seconds and then trys to start again. It has been doing this for the last 3 or so minutes.
Does that change the though process on what is its issue?
Thanks again all.
Post by: Chappie on July 13, 2019, 11:12:55 AM
Saph, I checked all the plugs inside and out. They seemed secure.
Paceman would that be the thickest cable comes that out of the power supply?
I will add that to the list of things to check.
Troopy, I am not getting any beeps but that could be because it doesn't look like it has a speaker inbuilt and one of the kids has borrowed the external ones. I will track down a speaker and try that. How would I check the HDD? The screen comes up with a logo and then it tells me no signal. So I think the monitor is ok.
Glen and Gronk, I think we might be at the same level. My great uncle would tell me not to force it, get a bigger hammer.
Jwb when it first started playing up we connected an old wired keyboard and mouse to check.
Post by: Wazza999 on July 13, 2019, 11:18:50 AM
Post by: Wazza999 on July 13, 2019, 11:23:21 AM
The fact that it tries to restart might point to a fundamental motherboard /bios related problem. Are you hearing any beeps from the motherboard? Without rereading the thread, I'm thinking it restarts before you get to the computer (not windows) splash screen. When you get failures, boards sometimes emit diagnostic beeps. Can you get to the bios set up screen before it restarts?Sorry troopy already mentioned beeps. These come from a 'buzzer' on the motherboard and don't need an external speaker (which require this os to be loaded anyway) .
Post by: Troopy_03 on July 13, 2019, 11:32:41 AM
Bird, no new gadgetry added. I have a power button on the power supply and another on the front of the machine and both seem to work ok.
Saph, I checked all the plugs inside and out. They seemed secure.
Paceman would that be the thickest cable comes that out of the power supply?
I will add that to the list of things to check.
Troopy, I am not getting any beeps but that could be because it doesn't look like it has a speaker inbuilt and one of the kids has borrowed the external ones. I will track down a speaker and try that. How would I check the HDD? The screen comes up with a logo and then it tells me no signal. So I think the monitor is ok.
Glen and Gronk, I think we might be at the same level. My great uncle would tell me not to force it, get a bigger hammer.
Jwb when it first started playing up we connected an old wired keyboard and mouse to check.
The mother board will have a tiny speaker built onto it. See here about beep codes https://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm (https://www.computerhope.com/beep.htm)
Many computers have a HDD activity light, but if not, listen to the HDD and does it sound like it is randomly reading the disc (putting a finger on it can help you here, by feel). If it sounds like it is clicking, or seams to be a repetative pattern, or just nothing at all, could be a HDD problem.
The fact that your monitor says no signal could mean either there is no continuity between the comp video output and the monitor input, or it could mean the video card is shot (or video card memory, depending on what you have). Is your video a separate video card, or is it onboard the mother board?
Edit: You can find a few troubleshooting guides using google too. One here for example:
https://www.maketecheasier.com/pc-troubleshooting-guide-2/ (https://www.maketecheasier.com/pc-troubleshooting-guide-2/)
Post by: saph on July 13, 2019, 12:59:31 PM
If you can get the cpu model i can see if it has a on board vga that might work if its not turned off in bios.
Post by: saph on July 13, 2019, 01:01:33 PM
Any ideas where I might start, the local computer shop told the minister for finance and warfare that it would be cheaper to buy a new one. I am not sure how he knows how much it will cost to fix, he may be right.
Thanks in advance.
Iain.
If the local pc shop said that they didnt look at it very long since depending on the issue it could be as cheap as 50 dollars (hard drive).
Post by: corndog on July 13, 2019, 03:04:51 PM
Post by: saph on July 13, 2019, 03:13:14 PM
As said, try to get into the bios on boot up and check things out there. Had similar problems in the past. Could be hard disk related. Had something to do with the controller type from what I remember. But it could be almost anything.
No video suggests video card issue and since i cant tell if they have a dedicated gpu or if its just igpu cant tell.
Post by: corndog on July 13, 2019, 03:30:40 PM
Post by: Pottsy on July 13, 2019, 03:44:36 PM
Yep, it's a question that is as hard to solve as.... How long is my piece of string, what's it made of and what colour is it.
21.5 metres, polypropylene, blue and yellow, 3 strand! ;D ;D
Post by: corndog on July 13, 2019, 03:48:20 PM
Post by: bkim on July 14, 2019, 12:27:52 AM
Very few modern motherboards now have the piezo speaker built onto the board. The case (tower) manufacturers were sometimes suppling them with new cases depending on the brand, but unless you buy a top quality tower, that is also now rapidly disappearing.
When stripping down an old system, I always retrieve the speaker if it is removable and reuse on a new system, they last for years!
Chappie
A faulty hard drive will only very rarely stop you accessing the BIOS, you will need to work out whether it has onboard video or a separate video card, if onboard see if you can borrow a card to try, or remove the card and try onboard if available, most bios's will revert to onboard default (if available) if the video card is physically removed from the system, sometimes a constant reboot loop indicates faulty ram, try removing them and try one stick at a time and pay attention to which slots are in use
Post by: Chappie on July 15, 2019, 12:26:24 PM
[/quote]
Hi Saph, I had this written down as the CPU - I3-4160.
Thanks
Post by: Chappie on July 15, 2019, 12:36:12 PM
A faulty hard drive will only very rarely stop you accessing the BIOS, you will need to work out whether it has onboard video or a separate video card, if onboard see if you can borrow a card to try, or remove the card and try onboard if available, most bios's will revert to onboard default (if available) if the video card is physically removed from the system, sometimes a constant reboot loop indicates faulty ram, try removing them and try one stick at a time and pay attention to which slots are in use."
Thanks bkim, It has a GPU which I assume is the same as a graphics card?
I will remove it tonight and see what happens as well as trying the RAM again.
Iain
Post by: Chappie on July 15, 2019, 12:44:13 PM
GPU 2G GTX 750 Gigabyte-OC (low profile) so I will try removing it as bkim suggested.
Also cheers for the troubleshooting link.
Post by: bkim on July 15, 2019, 11:55:32 PM
If you can get the cpu model i can see if it has a on board vga that might work if its not turned off in bios.
Hi Saph, I had this written down as the CPU - I3-4160.
Thanks
Chappie,
Your processor does support on board graphics
Processor Graphics ‡
Intel® HD Graphics 4400
Post by: Chappie on July 16, 2019, 07:25:49 AM
1 down 25365 to go.
I put a finger on the HDD and I think I could feel a click??? just before the computer shut down and went through the restrart process, so I think that might be a good idea to swap that out for a new one? Do I need a specific HDD to match up to the rest of the components? The one in there currently should be a Seagate SSHD 1TB.
Thanks
Post by: Bird on July 16, 2019, 08:15:39 AM
Quote from: Chappie
I unplugged the GPU, graphics card and plugged the screen into the other plug and nothing changed so I am pretty happy my GPU is not the problem.
1 down 25365 to go.
I put a finger on the HDD and I think I could feel a click??? just before the computer shut down and went through the restrart process, so I think that might be a good idea to swap that out for a new one? Do I need a specific HDD to match up to the rest of the components? The one in there currently should be a Seagate SSHD 1TB.
It would certainly be worth getting someone who knows PC's to throw an eye over it (I've done it down here for people) - before you start replacing things one by one or it can get you nowhere for $ sometimes can be cheaper to upgrade the whole PC..
Some of those Asian computer stores sell PC's cheaper than you can buy the parts for. EG: <500
Surely theres a forum member close by that knows PC's?
Also replacing the HD, you have a backup of everything? Software CD's etc for the rebuild?
Post by: Robbo on July 16, 2019, 05:21:26 PM
X1.........get a small hammer and give it a tap.......if that doesn't work, get a bigger hammer !! ;DWhen all else fails
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Post by: bkim on July 17, 2019, 12:26:34 AM
I unplugged the GPU, graphics card and plugged the screen into the other plug and nothing changed so I am pretty happy my GPU is not the problem.
1 down 25365 to go.
I put a finger on the HDD and I think I could feel a click??? just before the computer shut down and went through the restrart process, so I think that might be a good idea to swap that out for a new one? Do I need a specific HDD to match up to the rest of the components? The one in there currently should be a Seagate SSHD 1TB.
Thanks
Hi Chappie,
did you actually remove the graphics card from the motherboard or just move the cable to the onboard video connection? in most cases you have to remove the card completely for the onboard IGPU to start by default, as said before a faulty hard drive should not stop you from accessing the BIOS, if the drive is faulty you would receive a message saying unable to access boot drive or similar
Post by: Fizzie on July 17, 2019, 07:46:18 AM
Surely theres a forum member close by that knows PC's?
.
Post by: Chappie on July 17, 2019, 08:35:34 AM
Also replacing the HD, you have a backup of everything? Software CD's etc for the rebuild?
I hadn't thought of that Bird, I think I bought the software online through work the photos are hopefully backed up with Google photos.
Robbo, don't temp me.
Thanks Bkim, I removed the graphics card from the slot on the motherboard, it was similar to how the Ram cards were mounted, then connected the screen to the other plug on the back of the computer.
If I borrowed some RAM from a mates PC and inserted them in my PC would that clear up the question over whether my RAM are the problem or is there no guarantee they would be compatible?
Post by: Bird on July 17, 2019, 08:52:52 AM
I hadn't thought of that Bird, I think I bought the software online through work the photos are hopefully backed up with Google photos.was the port on back of PC same port as on the graphics card.
Robbo, don't temp me.
Thanks Bkim, I removed the graphics card from the slot on the motherboard, it was similar to how the Ram cards were mounted, then connected the screen to the other plug on the back of the computer.
If I borrowed some RAM from a mates PC and inserted them in my PC would that clear up the question over whether my RAM are the problem or is there no guarantee they would be compatible?
make sure the SCREEN itself is set to the correct port (VGA, display etc)
Post by: Chappie on July 17, 2019, 09:00:48 AM
Does that sound right? I googled images of GPU graphics cards and it looked similar to what I removed.
When I turn the screen on it cycles through the different inputs, I will double check when I get home tonight.
Thanks
Post by: Bird on July 17, 2019, 09:09:37 AM
Quote from: Chappie
Hi Bird, When I removed the graphics card it had the port attached so it was removed as well.Yep, if it was same on the card and PC = no probs... Some monitors have an "auto" setting too which as it says auto sets up.
Does that sound right? I googled images of GPU graphics cards and it looked similar to what I removed.
When I turn the screen on it cycles through the different inputs, I will double check when I get home tonight.
Why not ask your mate who built it to have a look at it ???
Post by: Chappie on July 17, 2019, 09:16:41 AM
Post by: Bird on July 17, 2019, 09:27:17 AM
Quote from: Chappie
Rude bugger finished uni and moved to Sydney.
why the **** would anyone move TO Shitney.. ??? ???
Post by: Chappie on July 17, 2019, 09:30:10 AM
Post by: Bird on July 17, 2019, 09:31:33 AM
I think the company threw buckets of money at him.still wouldnt be enough
Post by: Kangaron on July 17, 2019, 11:42:00 AM
https://www.geeks2u.com.au/
Post by: gronk on July 17, 2019, 05:35:39 PM
why the **** would anyone move TO Shitney.. ??? ???
Ha ha....someone living in Melbourne , Antarctica's sister city, putting sh*t on another city in Australia ?? ;D ;D :P
Post by: HKB Electronics on July 18, 2019, 11:07:34 AM