Post by: Lloyd65 on March 04, 2015, 09:04:33 PM
Just read this in Royal auto
Rumours of police in several states clamping down on non-load-rated D- shackles being used to tow caravans,
boats & other trailers are just that: Rumours. Many members have raised concerns with RACV that they'd
be fined for using what they thought was common towing hitch component. The caravan industry of Australia
has told RACV various police & state transport departments have denied any sort of crackdown. The CIA also
confirms there is no specific requirements for D- shackles such as when attaching a trailer to a tow-bar.
The Australian Standard on shackles (AS 2741-2002) only covers their use for lifting. "Our understanding
is there is currently no regulations requiring shackles used on trailer safety chains to comply with standard,"
says Stuart Lamont of CIA. "However,some state authorities provide guidelines or advice for selecting suitable shackles."
Mr Lamont says the CIA does recommend using shackles that meet AS 2741-2002 to secure safety chains up
to 3500Kg capacity. The grade should be "S" or "6", have a 10mm diameter and working load limit of 1000Kg.
Mr Lamont says either bow-shackles or D-shackles are suitable, noting that the bow provides greater angle use.
Cheer Lloyd
Post by: rockrat on March 04, 2015, 09:36:40 PM
TMR requires that “D” Shackles, used to connect a trailer safety chain(s) to the towing vehicle, must have strength that is compatible with the safety chain (fit for purpose). This can be ensured in a couple of ways:
1. Use of “D” Shackles that comply with AS 2741-2002 “Shackles” and having the appropriate markings is one way. TMR recommends this method.
2. Another way of ensuring that the “D” Shackle used is of appropriate strength is to select a “D” Shackle of reputed brand (for example, a towbar manufacturer) so the part has its brand name/model permanently marked on it.
Post by: HEM19X on March 05, 2015, 01:47:05 AM
Post by: Symon on March 05, 2015, 05:17:59 AM
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=25708 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=25708)
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=38817 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=38817)
Post by: fishfinder on March 05, 2015, 05:30:38 AM
Post by: duggie on March 05, 2015, 01:33:10 PM
Post by: chester ver2.0 on March 05, 2015, 04:22:51 PM
Best ones going around atm are
"if you are not trained in firts aid and render first aid to someone who dies you can be liable"
" due to the increased risk of cancer and diabeties companies are now required by law to provide sit stand desks"
Post by: loanrangie on March 05, 2015, 06:19:02 PM
Post by: KingBilly on March 05, 2015, 07:51:05 PM
Its not a myth , i know a few people that have been pulled over due to not having rated shackles on trailer safety chains.
Brother-inlaw's cousin's aunty's step father's adopted grandson by any chance :D :D :D
Well documented that it is an urban myth
KB
Post by: paceman on March 10, 2015, 01:32:55 PM
Brother-inlaw's cousin's aunty's step father's adopted grandson by any chance :D :D :D
Well documented that it is an urban myth
KB
what's the myth? that rated shackles are required by law, or that people were getting booked for not having them?
just because it is not against the law to not have rated shackles, does not mean to say that people have not been booked for such...
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=38789.msg631415#msg631415 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=38789.msg631415#msg631415)
unless it can be categorically proven that no-one has been booked for having unrated shackles, then stating that getting booked is a myth is incorrect.
Post by: KingBilly on March 10, 2015, 01:57:22 PM
just because it is not against the lawto not have rated shackles, does not mean to say that people have not been checked/booked for such...
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=38789.msg631415#msg631415 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=38789.msg631415#msg631415)
unless it can be categorically proven that no-one has been booked for having unrated shackles, then just because it might not be the law is irrelevant.
Mate, not sure what your point is but here's a fact. If something is legal, you can not be "booked" for it ;D ;D ;D
KB
Post by: paceman on March 10, 2015, 02:01:19 PM
Mate, not sure what your point is but here's a fact. If something is legal, you can not be "booked" for it ;D ;D ;D
KB
interesting wordplay, but it doesn't change the possibility that people have been booked (incorrectly, as it appears) by police or dept of transport inspectors.
just because the cops/inspectors don't know the law, doesn't mean to say that mistakes aren't made and people aren't booked.
take this as you will, but this appears to be a published confirmation of someone being booked for this offence:
http://issuu.com/timetoroamaustralia/docs/issuu_-_copy/13 (http://issuu.com/timetoroamaustralia/docs/issuu_-_copy/13)
maybe you could call the writer of the letter to confirm the myth?
Post by: Patr80l on March 10, 2015, 02:08:51 PM
Post by: paceman on March 10, 2015, 02:10:11 PM
There may not be a regulation for shackles specifically, but would it not be covered by the regulation regarding modifying a vehicle away from factory specifications? If the manufacturer uses rated shackles then you should replace them with similarly rated shackles.
sounds like common sense to me...
as others have said, get rated shackles and you won't have a problem, law or no law... :)
Post by: KingBilly on March 10, 2015, 02:11:12 PM
interesting wordplay, but it doesn't change the possibility that people have been booked (incorrectly, as it appears).
just because the cops don't know the law, doesn't mean to say that mistakes aren't made and people aren't booked.
Are you personally having a go at me for some obscure reason or are you just trying to start an arguement.
Now you are insinuating that police do not know the law. Mate, police wouldn't waste their time pulling somebody over to check their shackles. Nor would they bother to write a ticket for such a minor offfence. Get real. Perhaps the only department who would look at shackles and maybe, a very small maybe, write a ticket for shackles (but remember this is all a hypothetcial discussion as there is no law stating the type of shackles you must have) would maybe be a transport inspector. And I find that even hard to swallow.
It is a well proven myth that this whole shackle offence/booking is a myth. Read the OP.
KB
Funnily, you have again
Edit - spelling
Post by: Patr80l on March 10, 2015, 02:14:31 PM
A good defence to that charge would be that you used shackles that were similar to or stronger to what the manufacturer used.
Post by: KingBilly on March 10, 2015, 02:16:12 PM
maybe you could call the writer of the letter to confirm the myth?
Bahahahahah. Just read the story written by the wife of a man who met a random guy in a club one night who told him about a mate who was pulled over for not having rated shackles. So
KB
Edit spelling
Post by: paceman on March 10, 2015, 02:17:17 PM
Are you personally having a go at me for some obscure reason or are you just trying to start an arguement.
Now you are insinuating that police do not know the law. Mate, police wouldn't waste their time pulling somebody over to check their shackles. Nor would they bother to write a ticket for such a minor offfence. Get real. Perhaps the only department who would look at shackles and maybe, a very small maybe, write a ticket for shackles (but remember this is all a hypothetcial discussion as there is no law stating the type of shackles you must have) would maybe be a transport inspector. And I find that even hard to swallow.
It is a well proven myth that this whole shackle offence/booking is a myth. Read the OP.
KB
Funnily, you have again efited your post. Just loke the first one I responded too.
nothing personal here. would have stated the same thing to anyone hwo posted what you did. the edit was for clarification of my statement, no change.
people are continuing to state that people getting booked for this non-offence is a myth.
there is plenty of evidence to suggest that it may not be a myth.
stating it is a myth, as you have, is insulting to those who have said they know of people who have been booked. you have no way of knowing that they are not correct.
Post by: KingBilly on March 10, 2015, 02:18:25 PM
There is also Common Law and Negligence. If sh** happens and someone dies because you used an unrated shackle, then you may find you have broken the law (and go to jail).
A good defence to that charge would be that you used shackles that were similar to or stronger to what the manufacturer used.
Totally agree. Use rated shackles. I have never argued against that and have always advocted that you should use rated shackles.
But the story doing the rounds of police booking people for not using rated shackels is a myth. Full stop.
KB
Post by: KingBilly on March 10, 2015, 02:20:30 PM
nothing personal here. would have stated the same thing to anyone hwo posted what you did. the edit was for clarification of my statement, no change.
people are continuing to state that people getting booked for this non-offence is a myth.
there is plenty of evidence to suggest that it may not be a myth.
stating it is a myth, as you have, is insulting to those who have said they know of people who have been booked. you have no way of knowing that they are not correct.
No evidence whatsoever other than hearsay stories. Show me one actual proven case of a person who has been booked for using an unrated shackle on a trailer and I will change my mind. You will not find a single proven example.
KB
Post by: dales133 on March 10, 2015, 02:47:50 PM
what's the myth? that rated shackles are required by law, or that people were getting booked for not having them?
just because it is not against the law to not have rated shackles, does not mean to say that people have not been booked for such...
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=38789.msg631415#msg631415 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=38789.msg631415#msg631415)
unless it can be categorically proven that no-one has been booked for having unrated shackles, then stating that getting booked is a myth is incorrect.
Pretty sure you wouldn't get pulled over for not having a rated shackle....even robo cops eyesight isn't that good.
Post by: Snow on March 10, 2015, 02:57:31 PM
Oh, too late, its already been done. :-[
Post by: KingBilly on March 10, 2015, 03:00:55 PM
If I wanted to make a quick killing selling rated D shackles I wonder how I could get that ball rolling. ;D ;D
Um, let's see. You could try starting an urban myth that you got "booked" by the coppers for having unrated shackles. Then write a letter to the editor of all the caravan magazines and jump on all the caravaner's forums having a whinge about getting booked and how the mate of a mate also got booked ;D ;D ;D
KB
Post by: krisandkev on March 10, 2015, 03:19:19 PM
interesting wordplay, but it doesn't change the possibility that people have been booked (incorrectly, as it appears) by police or dept of transport inspectors.
just because the cops/inspectors don't know the law, doesn't mean to say that mistakes aren't made and people aren't booked.
take this as you will, but this appears to be a published confirmation of someone being booked for this offence:
http://issuu.com/timetoroamaustralia/docs/issuu_-_copy/13 (http://issuu.com/timetoroamaustralia/docs/issuu_-_copy/13)
maybe you could call the writer of the letter to confirm the myth?
That area is near us and the Police and State Transport have issued statements that this did not happen and that there is no such offence, just guidelines. You can follow this up in their local newspaper, but it was all another social media untruth. Personally, I do use rated shackles on our camper. Kevin
Post by: Green rv on March 10, 2015, 03:47:13 PM
do not use rope to restrain a load
you must use a restraint that meets Aus standards
on a side note ratchet straps on sale 2 4 1 sale
;D
Ads
Post by: tracker on March 10, 2015, 04:22:59 PM
G'day all,
Just sitting on the fence watching this tennis match....... ;D ;D..... :angel: :angel:
Not bad entertainment
Cheers Tracker.
Post by: bentnose on March 10, 2015, 04:37:25 PM
I use rated shackles for this reason only and yes I think its an urban myth about people being booked by the local constabulary.
now Tracker get off the fence and put your two bobs worth in
Post by: GGV8Cruza on March 10, 2015, 06:43:52 PM
Each way bet, 50% of the fine or the ultimate fence sitter.
For me its easy. I use rated gear to recover my rig, why not purchase less than $10 worth of shackles to keep the ttailer attached in the event of a problem. Although I do run a DO35 so should have no probs
GG
Post by: Swannie on March 10, 2015, 07:17:16 PM
Swannie
Post by: Hewy54 on March 10, 2015, 07:59:55 PM
Post by: dales133 on March 10, 2015, 08:04:23 PM
Post by: jr on March 10, 2015, 08:30:32 PM
Why WOULDNT you use rated shackles...... Pretty dopey not to
Post by: weeds on March 10, 2015, 09:24:23 PM
So you have a rated shackle......what sort of chain was used, did a certified welder weld the chain fly he draw bar.......
So many variables......been using standard shackled for he last 30 years
Post by: glenm64 on March 10, 2015, 09:46:01 PM
That area is near us and the Police and State Transport have issued statements that this did not happen and that there is no such offence, just guidelines. You can follow this up in their local newspaper, but it was all another social media untruth. Personally, I do use rated shackles on our camper. KevinWhat a social media untruth, that would be a first :D
cheers Glen
Post by: cheif carlos on March 10, 2015, 10:31:33 PM
I also am bashing my head against a brick wall to convince my inlaws to replace their $2 shackles on their 3.5t caravan which have been on it for 8+years, and they just had it passed by the RMS NSW as is
Cheers
Jason
Post by: Jason B on March 10, 2015, 11:41:04 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on March 11, 2015, 12:13:03 AM
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on March 11, 2015, 04:56:35 AM
Be honest ;D
Post by: Homer_Jay on March 11, 2015, 07:44:52 AM
never got picked for not having rated shackles. So obviously not an issue with QLD transport.
I still use rated shackles, for an extra couple of dollars its a no brainer for me.
Not worth the risk if insurance becomes an issue.
My old man is still just living in the 60's and he will never change.
Post by: KingBilly on March 11, 2015, 07:55:46 AM
How many here have rated shackles on non rated chain?
Be honest ;D
And just as importantly, how are they attached to the drawbar and is where they are attached to the drawbar, suitable for the amount of stress that a trailer becoming detached from its coupling would place on that section of the drawbar?
KB
Post by: Patr80l on March 11, 2015, 04:14:49 PM
1. What does road safety legislation and regulations require? Not much.
2. What does the law of negligence expect of you if things go wrong? Do what any sensible person would have done, or stay within the manufacturer's standard (the latter is easier to prove than the former.)
3. What is safe and sensible? Get the strongest you can afford.
Three slightly different answers.
Post by: oldmate on March 11, 2015, 04:54:29 PM
Post by: xcvator on March 11, 2015, 05:20:53 PM
Post by: KingBilly on March 11, 2015, 05:37:28 PM
i use cable ties, but not cheap chinese ones, i made mine by melting down thousands of those little plastic ends that they put of shoe laces. never failed me yet.
I suppose fuse wire wouldn't pass either then ???
Ah, the peanut gallery has something meaningful to contribute ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just saying ;D ;D ;D ;D
KB
Post by: oldmate on March 11, 2015, 05:41:13 PM
Ah, the peanut gallery has something meaningful to contribute ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just saying ;D ;D ;D ;D
KB
i think others beat us too that.
Just saying ;D ;D
Post by: KingBilly on March 11, 2015, 05:43:06 PM
Take care
KB
Post by: oldmate on March 11, 2015, 05:50:02 PM
Post by: gordo350 on March 11, 2015, 06:15:22 PM
How many here have rated shackles on non rated chain?I bought the trailer with chains attached. If I put crap shackles on thats my problem. The chains are the manufacturer's problem. I am not educated enough to warrant the effectiveness of said chains. Use rated shackles.
Be honest ;D
Post by: Fathom on March 11, 2015, 06:38:07 PM
i use cable ties, but not cheap chinese ones, i made mine by melting down thousands of those little plastic ends that they put of shoe laces. never failed me yet.Black ones or white ones?
Just wanna make sure I get it right.
Post by: Clouty on March 11, 2015, 06:50:11 PM
Post by: Clouty on March 11, 2015, 06:51:49 PM
Post by: KingBilly on March 11, 2015, 07:13:34 PM
KB
Post by: D4D on March 11, 2015, 07:15:07 PM
Post by: oldmate on March 11, 2015, 07:15:41 PM
Cable ties are a good idea though oldmate :cup: Might have to give it a go ;D
I'll sell ya some of mine, $3 each. Cheaper than steel shackles and uv rated these ones. Made using a propane cooker so perfectly safe :cup: :cup:
Post by: xcvator on March 11, 2015, 09:52:02 PM
The cable ties will stop the chains dragging along the road ;DYou talkin bout chains or nuckles ??? ???
KB
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on March 12, 2015, 06:02:30 AM
I bought the trailer with chains attached. If I put crap shackles on thats my problem. The chains are the manufacturer's problem. I am not educated enough to warrant the effectiveness of said chains. Use rated shackles.
Some how I don't think it's the manufacturers fault. :D
It's been done to death a million times, probably more than the great D shackle debate, but here it is again........
All pig trailers with rigid drawbars (with or without breakaway brakes—but excluding converter dollies) and, any other trailer without breakaway brakes, must be fitted with safety chains that are marked in accordance with the relevant Australian Standard and (or cables as applicable) complying with the following:
trailers that do not exceed 2.5 tonnes ATM must have at least one safety chain complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994 or Australian Standard AS 4177.4-2004 ‘Caravan and light trailer towing components —Part 4: Safety chains up to 3500kg capacity’, or be a safety cable with a certified load capacity of the same;
trailers over 2.5 tonnes and not exceed 3.5 tonnes ATM must have two safety chains of designation of 3500 kg complying with Australian Standard AS 4177.4-1994 or Australian Standard AS 4177.42004;
Shane.
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on March 12, 2015, 06:04:37 AM
How many here have rated shackles on non rated chain?
Be honest ;D
No one?
I'll go first, Me.
Post by: gordo350 on March 12, 2015, 06:14:16 AM
Post by: muzza01 on March 12, 2015, 07:51:25 AM
Post by: oldmate on March 12, 2015, 08:01:07 AM
I just use tie wire. Rated of course.
Almost as good as cable ties :cup:
Post by: Garfish on March 12, 2015, 08:09:00 AM
How many here have rated shackles on non rated chain?
Be honest ;D
Me.
Post by: prodigyrf on March 12, 2015, 11:10:59 AM
6 B&S :cup:
Post by: feisty on March 12, 2015, 02:10:31 PM
Black ones or white ones?Always use black ones in the outdoor environment because the white ones aren't UV stabilised. Hey maybe that's a good topic for a new thread!!!
Just wanna make sure I get it right.
Post by: krisandkev on March 12, 2015, 06:41:53 PM
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv38573%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D373396%3C%3A8%3A33%3Bnu0mrj)
Post by: oldmate on March 12, 2015, 06:42:12 PM
Black ones or white ones?
Just wanna make sure I get it right.
no need to be racist. Prick! ;D
Post by: oldmate on March 12, 2015, 06:43:04 PM
I can’t believe someone has not mentioned about crossing your chains. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Kevin
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv38573%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D373396%3C%3A8%3A33%3Bnu0mrj)
clouty sort of did, they will cross over something when you throw them over the drawbar :cup:
Post by: Fathom on March 12, 2015, 06:46:15 PM
Always use black ones in the outdoor environment because the white ones aren't UV stabilised. Hey maybe that's a good topic for a new thread!!!Aha thanks for that.
I will get that right now.
Luckily I haven't seen any other colours.
This is the reason I think this forum is great.
Lots of awesome advice. Bit of fun along the way. :)
Nb... My shackles are rated. But not because I believe it's law. Because I believe it's safer. .
I have no idea if my chain is. It came welded to the camper chassis.
You may be able to rate a chain but I am not sure you can rate welds....
Unless you strap over the top of the welds with black cable ties maybe? :)
Post by: Fathom on March 12, 2015, 06:47:12 PM
no need to be racist. Prick! ;DI was waiting for that. lol.
Nb... I am not racist.. I have an equally low opinion of a huge variety of.., ok all races.
Especially cane toad racing. They are ugly.
Post by: macca on March 12, 2015, 06:54:31 PM
I can’t believe someone has not mentioned about crossing your chains. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Kevin
(http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp93232%3Euqcshlukaxroqdfv38573%3Enu%3D6%3A%3B%3A%3E598%3E24%3A%3EWSNRCG%3D373396%3C%3A8%3A33%3Bnu0mrj)
If their not crossed just give the wheel a huge tug at a hundred clicks and they will cross when the trailer flips, ive heard it doesnt work with cable ties though
Post by: oldmate on March 12, 2015, 07:00:02 PM
Post by: Bill on March 12, 2015, 08:17:17 PM
I cross my chains twice.
Once over each other than once under each other for added strength.
But Im not worried because I always drive at least 20k under the speed limit.
And because law of averages says if an accident happens and my trailer flips it will flip to the left, I of course drive in the far right lane so if she goes over i have a lane or two to the left to stop.
Bill
Post by: Fathom on March 12, 2015, 08:25:23 PM
I use non rated shackles on my non rated chain.You may want to consider driving faster.
I cross my chains twice.
Once over each other than once under each other for added strength.
But Im not worried because I always drive at least 20k under the speed limit.
And because law of averages says if an accident happens and my trailer flips it will flip to the left, I of course drive in the far right lane so if she goes over i have a lane or two to the left to stop.
Bill
Then if your camper separates from your tug and your non rated shackles and non rated chain and non rated welds break...
You will be a good extra 30 metres away. So it won't matter which way it rolls.
And your tug will be able to drive you to a motel.
Post by: Bill on March 12, 2015, 08:38:35 PM
You may want to consider driving faster.Good idea.
Then if your camper separates from your tug and your non rated shackles and non rated chain and non rated welds break...
You will be a good extra 30 metres away. So it won't matter which way it rolls.
And your tug will be able to drive you to a motel.
Thanks!!
Bill
Post by: oldmate on March 12, 2015, 08:43:46 PM
Post by: Clouty on March 12, 2015, 09:01:03 PM
This forum is so full of information :cup:
Have to agree..
I've learnt so much on this forum.. Stuff like my ute is not called a ute it's called a truck.. ;D
I'm now called a bickie dipper ;D
Post by: oldmate on March 12, 2015, 09:10:22 PM
Have to agree..
I've learnt so much on this forum.. Stuff like my ute is not called a ute it's called a truck.. ;D
I'm now called a bickie dipper ;D
Your also called other things, but we can't say that on this forum :cup:
Post by: scarpsD40 on March 16, 2015, 03:43:51 PM
This forum is so full of information :cup:sorry guys, been away at a conference for a few days. Late to the party.
My 2c is I find the plastic tie clips on bread bags pretty reliable plus easy to replace as needed.
Fathom, only ever seen them in white, but of course I could be wrong.
Post by: scarpsD40 on March 16, 2015, 03:44:56 PM
I now just refer to you as Prince - formerly known as Trackabout owner.
I'm now called a bickie dipper ;D
Post by: oldmate on March 16, 2015, 03:49:19 PM
sorry guys, been away at a conference for a few days. Late to the party.
My 2c is I find the plastic tie clips on bread bags pretty reliable plus easy to replace as needed.
Fathom, only ever seen them in white, but of course I could be wrong.
Late to the party? Wasnt the conference a party? Sorry off topic.
Back to cable ties ;D
Post by: gordo350 on March 16, 2015, 04:40:29 PM
Post by: Green rv on March 16, 2015, 04:44:27 PM
But aren't the clips from bread bags got a use by date. Wouldn't want to be caught with an out of date shackle
best one liner of the day