Post by: Paul (SA) on February 08, 2015, 04:56:15 PM
Post by: speewa158 on February 08, 2015, 05:03:36 PM
Stick with me & it will get better >:D :cup: :cheers:
Post by: muzza01 on February 08, 2015, 05:05:07 PM
He is not my favourite PM but I don't know why he is poison.
Post by: JD-120 on February 08, 2015, 05:12:52 PM
Post by: GeoffA on February 08, 2015, 05:20:23 PM
I don't get why he is so unpopular......
Left-leaning media running the show....
Post by: scarpsD40 on February 08, 2015, 05:20:47 PM
Post by: speewa158 on February 08, 2015, 05:22:34 PM
What could possibly go wrong :cheers:
Post by: speewa158 on February 08, 2015, 05:28:25 PM
Vote 1 ( One ) SPEEWA
What could possibly Go rong :cheers: :laugh:
Post by: Jason B on February 08, 2015, 05:30:55 PM
They are all turkeys!
Jas
Post by: Murph on February 08, 2015, 05:50:30 PM
Post by: dales133 on February 08, 2015, 06:03:40 PM
I don't get why he is so unpopular. Knighting the Prince was defo unpopular but prior to the election the two most important things the voters wanted was to stop the boats and the carbon tax.Because he broke almost every election promise , he did countless things he said he'd never do (cuts to abc, education cuts, Medicare Co payment....next will be the dead and buried work choices) and he's a cheesy patronizing arrogant dick...Basicly.
He is not my favourite PM but I don't know why he is poison.
Not that any of that's uncommon with politicians
Post by: Bird on February 08, 2015, 06:05:19 PM
Post by: muzza01 on February 08, 2015, 06:07:17 PM
Because he broke almost every election promise , he did countless things he said he'd never do (cuts to abc, education cuts, Medicare Co payment....next will be the dead and buried work choices) and he's a cheesy patronizing arrogant dick...Basicly.And this was different to the previous PM :D
Not that any of that's uncommon with politicians
Post by: oldmate on February 08, 2015, 06:07:33 PM
Because he broke almost every election promise , he did countless things he said he'd never do (cuts to abc, education cuts, Medicare Co payment....next will be the dead and buried work choices) and he's a cheesy patronizing arrogant dick...Basicly.You just described half of Canberra. The other half aren't pollies.
Not that any of that's uncommon with politicians
Post by: InMused on February 08, 2015, 06:08:26 PM
Post by: Symon on February 08, 2015, 06:09:58 PM
I don't get why he is so unpopular. Knighting the Prince was defo unpopular but prior to the election the two most important things the voters wanted was to stop the boats and the carbon tax.
He is not my favourite PM but I don't know why he is poison.
Mostly because of his past, 'mad monk' and all that. He has a serious image problem, he could speak rainbows and gum drops but people will still hate him with a rabid (almost obsessive) passion. He also bows to the extreme right of the liberal party, although he himself leans more to the left. The Australian government has a structural problem with its economy, it is as simple as we spend more than we earn. Currently our debt is low but it is growing, and will get out of control unless we do something about it. That needs reform, and if anything the past decade with the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd/Abbott governments has shown that Australians don't want reform.
Anyone who dares to take away the lolly will get booted out in spectacular fashion.
Post by: achjimmy on February 08, 2015, 06:10:41 PM
Abbott hating is a sport and when he was in opposition he paved the way for it to become professional. And him opening his mouth helps the haters because he can put his foot in. . I hope Turnbull gets in Don't particuly like him but he will hold stead and probably govern for 2-3 terms which is what the country needs. A revolving door of leaders or governments is not what we need.
Post by: Bird on February 08, 2015, 06:10:52 PM
You just described half of Canberra since governor macquarie.fixt
Post by: achjimmy on February 08, 2015, 06:12:19 PM
Mostly because of his past, 'mad monk' and all that. He has a serious image problem, he could speak rainbows and gum drops but people will still hate him with a rabid (almost obsessive) passion. He also bows to the extreme right of the liberal party, although he himself leans more to the left. The Australian government has a structural problem with its economy, it is as simple as we spend more than we earn. Currently our debt is low but it is growing, and will get out of control unless we do something about it. That needs reform, and if anything the past decade with the Rudd/Gillard/Rudd/Abbott governments has shown that Australians don't want reform.
Anyone who dares to take away the lolly will get booted out in spectacular fashion.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Said perfectly
Post by: dales133 on February 08, 2015, 06:15:04 PM
And yes I agree we need to reduce our debt but it dosn't need to be done in one budget and at the expense of election promises. ..that's why he was elected
Post by: Symon on February 08, 2015, 06:21:14 PM
Abbott hating is a sport and when he was in opposition he paved the way for it to become professional. And him opening his mouth helps the haters because he can put his foot in. . I hope Turnbull gets in Don't particuly like him but he will hold stead and probably govern for 2-3 terms which is what the country needs. A revolving door of leaders or governments is not what we need.
I don't think Turnbull will get in, I think it will be put to the vote and fail. The whole ute gate debacle is still hanging around his neck, and he is very much on the nose of the die hard right wingers in the LNP. Turnbull is very centrist, he would feel just as home in the ALP as the LNP.
Post by: Hairs on February 08, 2015, 06:27:08 PM
Something that is discussed face to face.
Not here.
Post by: Barry G on February 08, 2015, 06:27:36 PM
Costello made an 'art' of it, which reached its pinnacle in the legislating of unlimited tax free super pay outs when over 60.
Govt should've been putting $ away then from the front end of the mining boom for the rainy day that has now arrived.
Abbott was a key player back then, so bears some responsibility for it. Instead of trying to rectify it he was trying for more of the same with his full pay parental leave for wealthy lawyers - his own profession - until the backlash from his back bench.
I reckon he will get rolled and a Bishop - Morrison ticket will get up.
It is interesting that Bishop has built her profile using the UN Security Council chair as a vehicle. If she is elected I wonder if she will say 'thanks' to Rudd, who drove the campaign for Australia to get the position, against massive opposition and ridicule from Abbott and the Libs.
This position has been invaluable to Aus to press its case on issues such as the Ukrainian air tragedy.
Yuit the latest example of something where Conservative short sighted ness would have cost us in the international arena, if they had been successful.
Post by: Symon on February 08, 2015, 06:54:34 PM
Way too much 'lolly' squandered on the 'haves' in the Howard Costello years.
Costello made an 'art' of it, which reached its pinnacle in the legislating of unlimited tax free super pay outs when over 60.
Govt should've been putting $ away then from the front end of the mining boom for the rainy day that has now arrived.
Totally agree. If we had adopted the Norwegian model back then we would have been a lot better now.
Quote
Instead of trying to rectify it he was trying for more of the same with his full pay parental leave for wealthy lawyers - his own profession - until the backlash from his back bench.
Yes it was bad policy, designed mostly to improve his standing with the female vote, but didn't hold water. By the way, Abbott is/was a journalist, not a lawyer. He has a Bachelor of Laws, but is not and never has been a lawyer.
Quote
I reckon he will get rolled and a Bishop - Morrison ticket will get up.
That would be funny to see.
Post by: UIZ733 on February 08, 2015, 06:57:31 PM
Post by: Mace on February 08, 2015, 07:20:10 PM
Turnbull is very centrist, he would feel just as home in the ALP as the LNP.
Hit it in one, he's a small l Liberal. Someone with a social conscience.
I will never vote for the Conservative Model Libs again until they regain their social conscience.
:cheers:
Post by: dales133 on February 08, 2015, 07:20:17 PM
It's confusing and messy for a term or two but it's far better
Post by: achjimmy on February 08, 2015, 07:26:09 PM
Whitlam attempted to be a liberal candidate and failed so joined labor
Abbott was strongly courted by Bob carr to join the NSW labor right as was Nelson and Turnbull. Abott didn't like the union influence in the labor party otherwise he would have joined.
Yep Howard squandered some lolly on the haves what about the billions he also squandered on the have nots and the
But nobody pi55ed the lolly jar away faster than Rudd and gillard, and other than school halls we have nothing left other than some dead insulation fitters and a shed load of useless school laptops.
Bishop was questioned on the UN postion and she said she would still be against the expense of it if it came again.
The UN is a total waste of funds, a wank feast for small time beurcrates to feel good, they achieve FA they didn't help timor for 15 yrs and they didn't stop the BS war in Iraq which has a a lot to do with the current situation.
Small government concentrating on job creation and national wealth. No privatization of major utilities investment in the sciences and development.
Post by: dazzler on February 08, 2015, 07:27:42 PM
I don't get why he is so unpopular. Knighting the Prince was defo unpopular but prior to the election the two most important things the voters wanted was to stop the boats and the carbon tax.
He is not my favourite PM but I don't know why he is poison.
Probably because once those two things were done with all he had was an empty sack. And even those two were only really popular with a percentage of the populace. An important yet small percentage.
(Seriously, once you think it through, the cost to 'stop the boats' is simply incredible and beyond comprehension ((bet no-one can name it without googling)) and the carbon tax was really next to nothing in the scheme of monetary issues).
Abbott has made the fundamental mistake, as have the last two, of standing front and centre of decisions. Something the wiley old fox Howard rarely did, leaving his ministers to announce things and he would take the credit for the good, and sack the minister when it was not so.
To be honest, I think that quite a few people woke up after voting for abbotts govt and felt like you do after waking up after a bender and finding a hooker in your bed. Sure, seemed good at the time ..........
As for PM. Turnbull would be silly to do anything but show support. Abbott's numbers are terminal, will continue to plunge and the next spill will be a cakewalk for Turnbull. Abbott has a lot of baggage, not all of his own making. The treasurers smoking their cigars did a LOT of damage. More than they probably imagine. Abbotts wink on radio when the adult phone line worker rang was very damaging as well.
Will be interesting viewing!
Post by: duggie on February 08, 2015, 07:31:01 PM
Sorry to rain on your parade, But Politics, as is religion it's a personal thing.
Something that is discussed face to face.
Not here.
I must agree, Politics and religion should not be discussed in pubs or forums.
I was very proud of this forum during the Queensland election, no politics or views were raised.
Post by: speewa158 on February 08, 2015, 07:41:56 PM
Sorry to rain on your parade, But Politics, as is religion it's a personal thing.
Something that is discussed face to face.
Not here.
Come to a Campfire , drink your fill , Then ,,,,
Vote 1 SPEEWA
What could possibly go rong :cup: :cheers:
Post by: achjimmy on February 08, 2015, 07:42:30 PM
To be honest, I think that quite a few people woke up after voting for abbotts govt and felt like you do after waking up after a bender and finding a hooker in your bed. Sure, seemed good at the time
ha ha ha ha post of the week.
Post by: Hairs on February 08, 2015, 07:43:47 PM
I was very proud of this forum during the Queensland election, no politics or views were raised.Maybe, just maybe the Mods are still on holidays( Good luck to ya's ya buggers) :)
Post by: dales133 on February 08, 2015, 07:44:04 PM
Post by: Hairs on February 08, 2015, 07:45:01 PM
Come to a Campfire , drink your fill , Then ,,,,I'm there :cheers:
Vote 1 SPEEWA
What could possibly go rong :cup: :cheers:
Post by: sschmez on February 08, 2015, 07:57:37 PM
* He's scrapped the Carbon Tax
* He's stopped the boats - and the deaths at sea.
* He got rid of the Mining Tax - so Australia is once more seen as a safe place to invest.
* He has over $1 trillion worth of new projects approved, projects that had been held up by Labor.
* He has new road projects now underway to overcome commuter gridlock in our cities.
* After 50 years of buck passing, he's made a decision on a new Western Sydney Airport.
* He's delivered a trifecta of free trade agreements covering more than 50 per cent of our exports – with China, Japan and South Korea.
* He has the live cattle trade - closed down by the ALP in panic over a TV program - booming again.
* At last, he has the NBN is rolling out, widely, reliably and affordably.
* He has Jobs growth running at 4,000 new jobs a week - triple that of 2013
* He has new housing approvals at record levels - creating a boom for tradies.
* He has the registration of new companies at the highest on record.
* He has Economic growth now running at 2.7 per cent, up from 1.9 per cent a year ago.
* He's cracking down on the likes of Hizb-ut-Tahrir and others who nurture Islamic extremism in our suburbs.
* For small business, he's cutting company tax by 1.5% on the 1st July to encourage further employment growth.
* And right now LNP policies have home loan interest rates at the lowest on record, and the September quarter had the biggest fall in power prices on record.
Therefore, even if he'd given a knighthood to Camilla, and despite the lamestream media beat-up
- I'm sticking with Tony !
(stolen from elsewhere)
Post by: Barry G on February 08, 2015, 08:53:55 PM
There used to be a great tradition in this country of being able to discuss politics at the pub, with total strangers.
I must agree, Politics and religion should not be discussed in pubs or forums.
I was very proud of this forum during the Queensland election, no politics or views were raised.
That was in the day of quality press and not the twitter-driven crap we have today.
Post by: dales133 on February 08, 2015, 08:59:04 PM
Post by: Symon on February 08, 2015, 09:09:24 PM
Maybe, just maybe the Mods are still on holidays( Good luck to ya's ya buggers) :)
This has been discussed before, political discussion is OK provided it doesn't get out of hand.
Post by: feisty on February 08, 2015, 09:38:01 PM
This has been discussed before, political discussion is OK provided it doesn't get out of hand.But is ok if it's dc to dc or waeco vs Engel. ....... just joking :) dc to dc is way more controversial than politics
Post by: alnjan on February 08, 2015, 09:48:06 PM
Post by: dazzler on February 08, 2015, 10:03:55 PM
I must agree, Politics and religion should not be discussed in pubs or forums.
I was very proud of this forum during the Queensland election, no politics or views were raised.
It's only an issue if you take things personally.
A forum like this one is actually, IMO, invaluable for a democracy where our information is so manufactured and controlled by vested interests it's not easy to get the truth.
There are some wise heads on here that have seen a lot. I know I have changed my views on a few things based on points put forward.
Now, ask me a religious question - I love arguing with space fairy lovers.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Post by: shanegtr on February 09, 2015, 02:00:28 AM
And then there's retirement. A person who is in a position for leadership, whether its PM, premier, mayor etc.. should have to commit to the term they are elected for and not retire half way through. If they cant commit to the full term they should start of the election process with a leader who can.
Post by: camper48 on February 09, 2015, 04:43:44 AM
he has done nothing for Australia
except backflip and tell fibs on just about on every thing
enjoy
Post by: Symon on February 09, 2015, 05:34:12 AM
I thought we voted for a political party, not an individual. It's Government, not a popularity contest.
Well technically you actually vote for your local member, if you happen to vote along party lines then you may choose to vote that way.
Post by: DaveR on February 09, 2015, 05:47:15 AM
BUT
Because the voters wanted the other mob out.
He didn't win, they lost.
This has happened twice in a row here in QLD now. Same for Vic I think.
So now, as said above, everyone has woken up, had some coffee and realised it was a bit of a bad idea.
First thing to fix is this pathetic media circus which has 24 hours of reality TV to fill. Look at how Mal was harrassed on a Sunday morning when trying to go for a walk with his Mrs, just an example here and not supporting Mal. This must stop.
Post by: justice on February 09, 2015, 07:53:48 AM
Thats my vote anyway. :laugh:
Post by: Bird on February 09, 2015, 08:41:56 AM
lock the thread
Post by: paceman on February 09, 2015, 09:05:27 AM
It's only an issue if you take things personally.
A forum like this one is actually, IMO, invaluable for a democracy where our information is so manufactured and controlled by vested interests it's not easy to get the truth.
There are some wise heads on here that have seen a lot. I know I have changed my views on a few things based on points put forward.
Now, ask me a religious question - I love arguing with space fairy lovers.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
it's one thing to debate sensibly, but another thing to insult or deliberately provoke (spoken as a space fairy lover).
everyone is entitled to their opinion/belief, but no-one is entitled to mock.
that type of freedom is what makes this country great.
Post by: Ratbag on February 09, 2015, 09:44:23 AM
There used to be a great tradition in this country of being able to discuss politics at the pub, with total strangers.
That was in the day of quality press and not the twitter-driven crap we have today.
I have to agree with that sentiment, B.
The media is almost totally to blame for the beat up that's surrounded this whole issue. They can smell blood after the part they have played in politics generally over the last few years, and they are far from disinterested commentators. A political beat up (or any other kind ... ) sells their product.
If something doesn't actually exist, they appear to have no compunctions whatsoever in inventing it. Some of the key words/phrases they use (among many) are "some people are saying ... " (trans. "We just made this up"); "called by some ... " (trans. "We just made this up"); "some party members are saying ... " (trans. "We just made this up"); the "random" street interview (trans. "We only publish the views of people who strongly support what we are telling you to believe ... "; etc, etc, etc.
Not good for our country in any way shape or form. And this is not any kind of party political statement. These rumour mongers and their 5 second attention span are plain dangerous, regardless of which political party is in office.
Some things should be and need to be reported, but it would be a nice change if the media could learn to do this without "spin" (trans. often out and out lying to suit their own business interests ... ).
Weasel words everywhere. Facts and statements by real, identified people appear to be an endangered species.
Post by: terravista on February 09, 2015, 09:47:42 AM
#?ImStickingWithTony?
* He's scrapped the Carbon Tax
* He's stopped the boats - and the deaths at sea.
* He got rid of the Mining Tax - so Australia is once more seen as a safe place to invest.
* He has over $1 trillion worth of new projects approved, projects that had been held up by Labor.
* He has new road projects now underway to overcome commuter gridlock in our cities.
* After 50 years of buck passing, he's made a decision on a new Western Sydney Airport.
* He's delivered a trifecta of free trade agreements covering more than 50 per cent of our exports – with China, Japan and South Korea.
* He has the live cattle trade - closed down by the ALP in panic over a TV program - booming again.
* At last, he has the NBN is rolling out, widely, reliably and affordably.
* He has Jobs growth running at 4,000 new jobs a week - triple that of 2013
* He has new housing approvals at record levels - creating a boom for tradies.
* He has the registration of new companies at the highest on record.
* He has Economic growth now running at 2.7 per cent, up from 1.9 per cent a year ago.
* He's cracking down on the likes of Hizb-ut-Tahrir and others who nurture Islamic extremism in our suburbs.
* For small business, he's cutting company tax by 1.5% on the 1st July to encourage further employment growth.
* And right now LNP policies have home loan interest rates at the lowest on record, and the September quarter had the biggest fall in power prices on record.
Therefore, even if he'd given a knighthood to Camilla, and despite the lamestream media beat-up
- I'm sticking with Tony !
(stolen from elsewhere)
None of this counts. The journalists/press think his ears are too big and he wears speedo's. Isn't that more importanat than what he's acheived?
Post by: dazzler on February 09, 2015, 10:50:11 AM
everyone is entitled to their opinion/belief, but no-one is entitled to mock.
that type of freedom is what makes this country great.
The second statement contradicts the first.
You can mock as much as you like in a democracy.
Post by: paceman on February 09, 2015, 10:55:12 AM
The second statement contradicts the first.
You can mock as much as you like in a democracy.
no it doesn't.
you can debate, but mocking or belittling someone, based on their opinion/belief, is a totally different thing.
Post by: Bird on February 09, 2015, 11:03:04 AM
Post by: xcvator on February 09, 2015, 11:12:06 AM
Lock it.x 2 getting risky
Post by: GGV8Cruza on February 09, 2015, 11:20:09 AM
Lock it.
Watching
x 2 getting risky
Still watching
GG
Post by: Snow on February 09, 2015, 11:30:49 AM
Who says there are no space fairies. ;D
Post by: BTMNDR on February 09, 2015, 11:34:30 AM
I don't think the media scrutiny on the LNP has come close to that of Rudd/Gillard/Rudd. It should be noted too, that Gillard got most of her legislation though a hung and hostile parliament.
Sheesh.
Post by: Ratbag on February 09, 2015, 11:50:56 AM
Apart from a few disgruntled LNP MoP, the entirety of the hyperbole appears to have been manufactured by the media. This looks to be a quite different from a situation where there were two "successful executions" ... Ugly stuff, that.
However, it is still conduct unbecoming all round IMNSHO, specially on the part of the media ...
The one party in all this who never come under any the scrutiny from the media ... themselves.
Post by: dazzler on February 09, 2015, 01:04:25 PM
no it doesn't.
you can debate, but mocking or belittling someone, based on their opinion/belief, is a totally different thing.
Example;
If someone says they believe a person flew to the moon on a winged horse and clove the moon in half and that person wrote a divine book and they tell me how to live based on this book then they deserve to be mocked.
A great big, thumbs in Jean pockets, leaning back BWAHSHAHAHAH mocking is quite in order.
If someone tells me I cannot marry a person of the same sex because of another book, similarly inspired with talking snakes and giant ships full of animals sailing a flooded world filled with the corpses of sinful babies then once again they deserve a good mocking in a secular society.
If I tell someone the earth is flat and we need to stand on one leg to keep it level I would expect to be pointed at and made to look stupid.
Those who don't tell others how to live based on these things have no fear of mocking but a polite hello to you sir and enjoy remains of the day.
NB. I was referring to Narnia, lord of the rings and pirates of the Caribbean.
Post by: paceman on February 09, 2015, 01:17:37 PM
Example;
If someone says they believe a person flew to the moon on a winged horse and clove the moon in half and that person wrote a divine book and they tell me how to live based on this book then they deserve to be mocked.
A great big, thumbs in Jean pockets, leaning back BWAHSHAHAHAH mocking is quite in order.
If someone tells me I cannot marry a person of the same sex because of another book, similarly inspired with talking snakes and giant ships full of animals sailing a flooded world filled with the corpses of sinful babies then once again they deserve a good mocking in a secular society.
If I tell someone the earth is flat and we need to stand on one leg to keep it level I would expect to be pointed at and made to look stupid.
Those who don't tell others how to live based on these things have no fear of mocking but a polite hello to you sir and enjoy remains of the day.
NB. I was referring to Narnia, lord of the rings and pirates of the Caribbean.
agree with you totally on the 'telling people what they should or should not be doing, based on their own belief' angle.
i try not to do that. i certainly am not perfect.
but we live in a world where just because you have that belief, makes you a target for ridicule, much like the ridicule that tony abbot received for having the 'gall' to stand up for what he believes in. he didn't try and force it on society, but that didn't stop some from having an unfair crack.
it's one thing to have a belief, but a totally different thing to force it on others.
on that we agree totally... :)
sorry mods, feel free to close/remonstrate if i am pushing the boundaries...
Post by: Green rv on February 09, 2015, 01:25:55 PM
AFTER I LOOK AFTER ME
Post by: DaveR on February 09, 2015, 01:30:45 PM
I'LL LOOK AFTER YOU
AFTER I LOOK AFTER ME
Got that 1 wrong me thinks.
It should read as follows...
I'LL LOOK AFTER YOU
umm
I'LL LOOK AFTER
umm
AFTER YOU
umm
AFTER
umm
I LOOK AFTER ME
Post by: Green rv on February 09, 2015, 01:37:41 PM
actually a quote from a great man John Schumann
bit of a lib bash here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIxOcIyedyo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIxOcIyedyo)
:cheers:
Ads
Post by: Bird on February 09, 2015, 01:54:24 PM
Quote from: Green rv
I'LL LOOK AFTER YOUevery polly in the last 30 years works on this theory... and will do for the next 150 years.
AFTER I LOOK AFTER ME
Post by: Green rv on February 09, 2015, 01:58:47 PM
but don't follow me i'm going fishing
:cheers:
Ads
Post by: tk421 on February 09, 2015, 02:44:36 PM
Tony Abbott to Julia Gillard in Parliament on Monday, February 27, 2012:
“My question is to the Prime Minister”. “Given that one-third of her parliamentary colleagues and a quarter of her cabinet colleagues have today expressed their lack of confidence in her, how can she claim to have a mandate to continue as Prime Minister?”
"How can the Prime Minister claim to be leading a united team when the former Prime Minister and the former foreign minister said that the Prime Minister had ‘lost the trust of the Australian people’ and 31 of her caucus colleagues backed the former Prime Minister?”
Post by: muzza01 on February 09, 2015, 04:42:46 PM
Post by: dales133 on February 09, 2015, 04:51:59 PM
Today’s motion was a vote of no confidence from almost 40% of the Prime Minister’s own caucus.Exactly...we haven't heard the last of this...he's just a fish in a barrel now.
Tony Abbott to Julia Gillard in Parliament on Monday, February 27, 2012:
“My question is to the Prime Minister”. “Given that one-third of her parliamentary colleagues and a quarter of her cabinet colleagues have today expressed their lack of confidence in her, how can she claim to have a mandate to continue as Prime Minister?”
"How can the Prime Minister claim to be leading a united team when the former Prime Minister and the former foreign minister said that the Prime Minister had ‘lost the trust of the Australian people’ and 31 of her caucus colleagues backed the former Prime Minister?”
How arrogant is he to think he can recover from this.
It wasn't a victory if you count 40% against him and probably at least another 15 or so that sat on the fence, like him or not it smells alot like the labor they blame the world on
Post by: Barry G on February 09, 2015, 05:46:12 PM
Seems outrage / right to freedom of speech somehow depends on which religion is being mocked / by whom.
To my mind to goad anyone who is likely to want to punch you on the nose is at best a questionable strategy. The nature of human interaction is such that 'unscrambling the egg' ( sectarianism) once large scale offence has occurred is almost impossible.
On the other hand, discussing politics is inevitably healthy in a democracy.
Post by: Ratbag on February 09, 2015, 05:48:59 PM
Post by: dazzler on February 09, 2015, 05:55:58 PM
agree with you totally on the 'telling people what they should or should not be doing, based on their own belief' angle.
i try not to do that. i certainly am not perfect.
but we live in a world where just because you have that belief, makes you a target for ridicule, much like the ridicule that tony abbot received for having the 'gall' to stand up for what he believes in. he didn't try and force it on society, but that didn't stop some from having an unfair crack.
it's one thing to have a belief, but a totally different thing to force it on others.
on that we agree totally... :)
sorry mods, feel free to close/remonstrate if i am pushing the boundaries...
RU486 8)
Post by: paceman on February 09, 2015, 06:01:21 PM
Interesting to see the outrage at the mild mocking of the space fairy believers ... And to compare it to the comments directed at the Muslims offence at the mocking of their prophet.
Seems outrage / right to freedom of speech somehow depends on which religion is being mocked / by whom.
To my mind to goad anyone who is likely to want to punch you on the nose is at best a questionable strategy. The nature of human interaction is such that 'unscrambling the egg' ( sectarianism) once large scale offence has occurred is almost impossible.
On the other hand, discussing politics is inevitably healthy in a democracy.
because in the case i was referring to, it was uncalled for. an out of the blue comment regarding those of a religious persuasion.
it seems that the 'all are welcome' motto of the forums is sometimes dependant on whether you are religious or not...
just because people profess to be christian, muslim, buddhist or whatever, it doesn't make them a bad person. their actions/speech towards others dictate that.
not once have i tried to push my beliefs onto any member of the forum. in fact, i have been up front in saying that no-one has the right to push their beliefs onto anyone.
it's a shame that some feel the need to make comments (space fairy lovers, for example), and then when someone tries to defend themselves against a comment like that, they are then made to feel as an outsider, in a supposed friendly forum.
Post by: dazzler on February 09, 2015, 06:07:56 PM
On the other hand, discussing politics is inevitably healthy in a democracy.
Totally agree (respectful arguments of course)
Though I really do think it is high time to openly discuss religion as its impact upon our society is emerging as a huge issue (once again). We hide behind this thin veil of not wanting to upset someone's feelings based solely on their beliefs. As our knowledge grows our superstitions are pushed further back.
I have taken a few stirring potshots today just for giggles and niggles. We all need giggles and niggles.
:D
Post by: Terry W4 on February 09, 2015, 06:08:38 PM
^ 69 to 31 looks pretty convincing to me. And that was just to defeat the spill motion. i.e. There was no spill ...
It was 61 to 39
Post by: paceman on February 09, 2015, 06:10:35 PM
RU486 8)
not his finest hour, i agree.
but again, it comes down to your belief structure. one side believes one thing, and the other side believes something else... who is right?
Post by: tlc001 on February 09, 2015, 06:12:50 PM
Today’s motion was a vote of no confidence from almost 40% of the Prime Minister’s own caucus.
Tony Abbott to Julia Gillard in Parliament on Monday, February 27, 2012:
“My question is to the Prime Minister”. “Given that one-third of her parliamentary colleagues and a quarter of her cabinet colleagues have today expressed their lack of confidence in her, how can she claim to have a mandate to continue as Prime Minister?”
"How can the Prime Minister claim to be leading a united team when the former Prime Minister and the former foreign minister said that the Prime Minister had ‘lost the trust of the Australian people’ and 31 of her caucus colleagues backed the former Prime Minister?”
It's a democracy, 51% is all you need.
Post by: dazzler on February 09, 2015, 06:14:50 PM
it's a shame that some feel the need to make comments (space fairy lovers, for example), and then when someone tries to defend themselves against a comment like that, they are then made to feel as an outsider, in a supposed friendly forum.
How have I made you feel like an outsider. Are you seriously telling me thats how you feel?. I have not been unfriendly, simply lightheartedly raised the issue of politics and religion.
I think politics and religion are worth debating because they BOTH affect us and the world today. More than anything else these things can destroy us. ISIL is one head of a political / religious juggernaut that is killing thousands.
I cant recall you jumping up and down when the muslims were getting a bollocking. (apologies if I missed it).
If you didnt like the comment you should have ignored it. But, you chose to engage and here we are.
Dont sulk.
Post by: paceman on February 09, 2015, 06:15:21 PM
Totally agree (respectful arguments of course)
Though I really do think it is high time to openly discuss religion as its impact upon our society is emerging as a huge issue (once again). We hide behind this thin veil of not wanting to upset someone's feelings based solely on their beliefs. As our knowledge grows our superstitions are pushed further back.
I have taken a few stirring potshots today just for giggles and niggles. We all need giggles and niggles.
:D
i totally agree with you. i am happy to talk to anyone who wants to have a rational discussion regarding religion... people tend to be fearful and negative about things that the don't understand. knowledge and understanding of ALL facets is encouraged, certainly byme, anyways...
what i don't appreciate is the 'stirring potshots'. yes, they might be meant as 'giggles', but for some, these can be hurtful. i don't know you personally, dazzler, but i for one have never taken a shot at you regarding religion or political persuasion, so why should it be OK for you to do that to me?
i assume that you are a good bloke and will continue to do so... :)
Post by: Barry G on February 09, 2015, 06:15:48 PM
because in the case i was referring to, it was uncalled for. an out of the blue comment regarding those of a religious persuasion.I have nothing against anyone of any religion. And certainly wasn't having a crack at you personally.
it seems that the 'all are welcome' motto of the forums is sometimes dependant on whether you are religious or not...
just because people profess to be christian, muslim, buddhist or whatever, it doesn't make them a bad person. their actions/speech towards others dictate that.
not once have i tried to push my beliefs onto any member of the forum. in fact, i have been up front in saying that no-one has the right to push their beliefs onto anyone.
it's a shame that some feel the need to make comments (space fairy lovers, for example), and then when someone tries to defend themselves against a comment like that, they are then made to feel as an outsider, in a supposed friendly forum.
I wouldn't take offence at Darren's comment, it read very tongue in cheek to me. But I have been reading his comments for years, and have a feel for his style.
The point I was trying to make, perhaps not very well, was that we are told as a society that we have a freedom of speech 'right' to offend, and that those who aren't "us" are then pilloried as unreasonable to react to that offence.
I see it as a social double standard.
(Posted this before reading earlier responses from you both.
Post by: dazzler on February 09, 2015, 06:16:22 PM
It will be handed to him on a platter.
Post by: paceman on February 09, 2015, 06:17:09 PM
How have I made you feel like an outsider. Are you seriously telling me thats how you feel?. I have not been unfriendly, simply lightheartedly raised the issue of politics and religion.
I think politics and religion are worth debating because they BOTH affect us and the world today. More than anything else these things can destroy us. ISIL is one head of a political / religious juggernaut that is killing thousands.
I cant recall you jumping up and down when the muslims were getting a bollocking. (apologies if I missed it).
If you didnt like the comment you should have ignored it. But, you chose to engage and here we are.
Dont sulk.
mate, i was there saying the same thing i am saying now: it's not OK for anyone to force their beliefs on anyone.
Post by: paceman on February 09, 2015, 06:19:14 PM
Back to Abbott. Turnbull was magnificent.
It will be handed to him on a platter.
on that we do agree... :)
Post by: Barry G on February 09, 2015, 06:21:59 PM
Back to Abbott. Turnbull was magnificent.In the lead up there will be a huge push to get him to commit to conscience votes on 2 issues.
It will be handed to him on a platter.
1/. Gay marriage, and
2/. Global warming 'price signal' policy.
If he says yes the right wing will sink him.
If he says no he will be accused of selling his principles to get the gig.
Post by: alnjan on February 09, 2015, 06:42:21 PM
Post by: UIZ733 on February 09, 2015, 06:47:44 PM
Post by: Ratbag on February 09, 2015, 06:52:03 PM
^ 69 to 31 looks pretty convincing to me. And that was just to defeat the spill motion. i.e. There was no spill ...It was 61 to 39
Quite right. Thanks for the correction. Today hasn't been a good day for me. Sorry.
So the for vote was 1.5641 times the against vote - i.e. no spill motion.
When has any election in this country been decided by such a ratio?
Post by: paceman on February 09, 2015, 06:55:13 PM
It was 61 to 39
Quite right. Thanks for the correction. Today hasn't been a good day for me. Sorry.
So the for vote was 1.5641 times the against vote - i.e. no spill motion.
When has any election in this country been decided by such a ratio?
the last qld state election (not 2015, the one before that) was a fair ratio... :)
Post by: Ratbag on February 09, 2015, 07:07:22 PM
the last qld state election (not 2015, the one before that) was a fair ratio... :)
In seats, yes. But it was extremely anomalous thing in itself. The current result is neither one thing nor the other.
The one thing I do agree with the media about is that the electorate's reaction to politics is becoming more and more chaotic. I do not think that this is a good thing. Of course, part of this chaotic reaction is in response to the media's input. One possible outcome is that our country and states become ungovernable, regardless of who is technically in office at the time. We are already seeing this effect IMHO.
When this develops to the logical extreme, our society, such as it is, will not function at all. This is not a good outcome IMO.
It may result in the breakdown of society into tribal groups engaged in perpetual war, as is the case in much of the Middle East.
Really sad that us humans cannot manage to get on with each other better than this.
Post by: Bird on February 09, 2015, 07:08:05 PM
Post by: dales133 on February 09, 2015, 07:30:11 PM
because in the case i was referring to, it was uncalled for. an out of the blue comment regarding those of a religious persuasion.I cop Shit for alot less.if freedom of opinion expression was a true right of everyone then of course people are going to be offended be they the minority or majority....what your asking for is that you be excused of defending your beliefs because your offence is worth more and more important than say.... a palistinian stating the same thing. Don't be so nieve
it seems that the 'all are welcome' motto of the forums is sometimes dependant on whether you are religious or not...
just because people profess to be christian, muslim, buddhist or whatever, it doesn't make them a bad person. their actions/speech towards others dictate that.
not once have i tried to push my beliefs onto any member of the forum. in fact, i have been up front in saying that no-one has the right to push their beliefs onto anyone.
it's a shame that some feel the need to make comments (space fairy lovers, for example), and then when someone tries to defend themselves against a comment like that, they are then made to feel as an outsider, in a supposed friendly forum.
Post by: oldmate on February 09, 2015, 10:25:10 PM
gee I cant understand why I don't give a flying **** about politics.
Yep. I'm with you mate.
Post by: scarpsD40 on February 09, 2015, 10:27:04 PM
Post by: dales133 on February 09, 2015, 10:30:06 PM
Post by: oldmate on February 09, 2015, 10:38:58 PM
I'm not allowed to vote but they will happily take my Rego. .tax..and that's my lot ... I'm like tonys perfect citizen. ...
Not quite perfect, your still a kiwi ;D ;D
Post by: dales133 on February 10, 2015, 03:58:55 AM
Post by: Garfish on February 10, 2015, 05:09:23 AM
Which Monday are we talking about?Title should change to After Tuesday, it's coming Tony.
Post by: GeoffA on February 10, 2015, 05:29:50 AM
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 10, 2015, 05:42:49 AM
Time to go read a camping thread I think.
Post by: Bill on February 10, 2015, 06:28:29 AM
I'm not allowed to vote but they will happily take my Rego. .tax..and that's my lot ... I'm like tonys perfect citizen. ...Me too...
Bill
Post by: time on February 10, 2015, 07:29:26 AM
Reminds me of the old saying
"Do you believe in the separation of Church and State?" "Ummmm ahhhh Yes"
"Would you swear to that on a stack of Bibles in a court of law?"
.............doesn't matter who you support etc, whenever you vote you ALWAYS get a politician !
Now lets have a good old fashioned discussion about sex......
Post by: paceman on February 10, 2015, 08:25:25 AM
things are not great in the pace household at the moment, and i let it get the better of me.
to dazzler and others, i'm sorry.
Post by: Crimso on February 10, 2015, 09:07:42 AM
Which Monday are we talking about?
Monday, Monday, you know, the day that can't be trusted & is often disliked.
Post by: bentnose on February 10, 2015, 09:12:25 AM
Group hugs
Post by: KingBilly on February 10, 2015, 09:22:56 AM
Post by: tk421 on February 10, 2015, 09:36:12 AM
It's a democracy, 51% is all you need.
And it means 2/5 of his fellow libs don't want him there. Not forgetting his cabinet were duty bound to support him under the Westminster system. (of course they'd have been out of jobs if he'd gone too)
For me the main thing is it unfortunately means he'll now focus on keeping the back benchers happy, and himself in a job, and not focusing on good policy decisions for the country. How many backflips in the run up to yesterday just to appease his fellow libs? Just makes him look like more a of a joke.
They're all as bad as each other, on both sides. The Rudd/Gillard merry go round made me sick too. They all focus on short term gains to keep themselves in power. No doubt we will get the usual handouts just before the next election (if we make it that far) and the voting sheep will all forget once they get their vote for me cash handout.
Post by: Barry G on February 10, 2015, 10:40:26 AM
just wanted to apologise for my ranting last night.Hope all works out for you Paceman.
things are not great in the pace household at the moment, and i let it get the better of me.
to dazzler and others, i'm sorry.
No need to apologise, you aren't Robinson Crusoe. Sometimes I could be called 'Friday'. :cheers:
Post by: fishfinder on February 10, 2015, 10:48:38 AM
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on February 10, 2015, 04:24:15 PM
Post by: Ratbag on February 10, 2015, 04:28:10 PM
Gotta love a political thread...... where the weak are killed and eaten.
But not necessarily in that order ...
Post by: Barry G on February 11, 2015, 10:01:24 PM
But not necessarily in that order ...LOL!
Post by: krisandkev on February 12, 2015, 06:52:15 AM
Luke Hodge is most likely going to call it quits with HFC at the end of this year. What a proven leader he is I can see him being a successful PM for this country. In 2016 he has my vote.
Sorry, who is he and what is HFC? Union leader and the HFC is a union? ??? Kevin
Post by: paceman on February 12, 2015, 06:56:06 AM
Sorry, who is he and what is HFC? Union leader and the HFC is a union? ??? Kevin
i am assuming he means luke hodge from the hawthorn football club (HFC)...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Hodge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke_Hodge)
Post by: BTMNDR on February 12, 2015, 07:14:38 AM
But you knew all that. Didn't you!
Post by: fishfinder on February 12, 2015, 07:25:38 AM
C'mon KrisandKev, HFC (Hawthorn Football Club) are the reigning AFL (Australian Football League) premiers. In fact, they've won the last two premierships, and are probably favourites to win a third on the trot.well said - you must be a true afl follower and in your comment you did not disagree about the leadership of the great man
But you knew all that. Didn't you!
Post by: krisandkev on February 12, 2015, 07:42:03 AM
I have been put right off former sports people becoming politicians after being disappointed with Glenn Lazarus. (Use to play in the real football sport >:D, now leader of the PUP Party in the Senate.) Sorry to PUP party supporters, but what a bunch they are. ::) ::) Kevin
Post by: fishfinder on February 12, 2015, 08:23:08 AM
Sorry, must be a southern thing. ;D And I know it is hard to believe but I am not an AFL follower. But I am always amazed with southerners, have some friends who moved up here years ago but they still know their teams song (and sing it) and the names of every player. Amazing. And when former Victorian’s get together all their conversations are about AFL. I just sit there and have no idea what they are talking about. ??? ??? ??? ??? Why can't they talk about cricket or rugby or politics.... OK point taken..... :angel:surely they can not be as bad as former singers from rock bands. ;D
I have been put right off former sports people becoming politicians after being disappointed with Glenn Lazarus. (Use to play in the real football sport >:D, now leader of the PUP Party in the Senate.) Sorry to PUP party supporters, but what a bunch they are. ::) ::) Kevin
Post by: GeoffA on February 12, 2015, 08:25:20 AM
surely they can not be as bad as former singers from rock bands. ;D
Former "vocalist" would be more appropriate...
Post by: robbo1172 on February 12, 2015, 10:09:35 AM
Former "vocalist" would be more appropriate...
How about "former yeller-outerer"... ;D
Robbo
Post by: Barry G on February 12, 2015, 08:52:31 PM
I actually think Lazarus says some intelligent things when I have heard him interviewed.
The smartest of the lot of that mob, I reckon he will out last Clive.
Post by: krisandkev on February 13, 2015, 07:20:59 AM
I actually think Lazarus says some intelligent things when I have heard him interviewed.
The smartest of the lot of that mob, I reckon he will out last Clive.
Very good point. Maybe if he could move away from Clive and think for himself he would be better. He comes across as a nice guy and does not have a political nastiness about him, yet! Kevin
Post by: Moggy on February 13, 2015, 09:04:46 PM
Very good point. Maybe if he could move away from Clive and think for himself he would be better. He comes across as a nice guy and does not have a political nastiness about him, yet! Kevin
What & give up the Bonu$e$. ;D ;D ;D