MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Vk3bq on November 16, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
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about time.. what a wonderful announcement!
http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/safety/no-smoking-nsw-national-parks (http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/safety/no-smoking-nsw-national-parks)
No smoking in NSW national parks
Did you know that 7 billion cigarette butts are littered across Australia every year? This puts lives and property at risk, ruining beaches, spoiling the beauty of our parks, and endangering wildlife.
NSW national parks are now no smoking areas. The smoking ban applies to almost all areas throughout NSW national parks and reserves, including picnic areas, campgrounds, beaches, lookouts, walking tracks, and on national park roads. The ban doesn't apply to some commercial lease or licence areas, or to private residences located within a park.
The smoking ban in NSW national parks and reserves will:
Reinforce government initiatives to reduce smoking in NSW
Reduce the effects of passive smoking, particularly in high visitor use areas.
Reduce the risk of accidental bushfires from discarded cigarettes
Reduce the spread of hazardous chemicals found in cigarettes, including arsenic and lead, in our precious environments.
Focus on community education, with on-the-spot fines issued only as a last resort.
NPWS is committed to helping to reduce smoking. We also want to reduce fire risk and littering in our parks and reserves. With your help, we can keep our parks safe and healthy for generations to come.
Want to find out more? Please read our frequently asked questions about no smoking in NSW national parks.
http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/no-smoking-faqs (http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/no-smoking-faqs)
No smoking in NSW national parks
Frequently asked questions
Why have you banned smoking in NSW national parks?
NSW national parks receive over 30 million visits a year. Banning smoking in national parks will further increase the community's enjoyment of, and safety in, these green open spaces.
The smoking ban, which has commenced with immediate effect, will reduce littering in national parks and reduce the risk of accidental fire started by unextinguished cigarette butts.
The ban also has obvious health benefits and will continue to ensure NSW is a world leader in phasing out smoking in public places.
Where does the ban apply?
Smoking is now banned in almost all park areas, including picnic areas, campgrounds, beaches, lookouts, walking tracks, and on roads in NSW national parks.
The ban will be governed under the National Parks and Wildlife Regulation 2009 by placing no smoking signs at entrances to parks and at popular visitor areas in parks.
Smoking is already banned in certain outdoor areas under the Smoke-Free Environment Act 2000. This ban applies near children's play equipment, public swimming pools, sports grounds, public transport stops, and within 4 metres of the entrance to a public building. The last of these bans – in outdoor dining areas – will come into force in July 2015.
Where does it not apply?
The ban doesn't apply to areas subject to a commercial lease or licence, such as ski resorts or hotels. The ban also doesn't apply to private residences located within a park.
NSW National Parks and Wildlife Service (NPWS) will work closely with leaseholders and licensees to provide assistance to minimise the litter and fire risk associated with recreational smoking. To this end, NPWS will support leaseholders and licensees in implementing smoking bans within lease/licence areas, where this is requested.
How will this ban benefit the environment?
Litter surveys confirm cigarette butts form over a third (35%) of the measured litter in NSW.
NSW has committed to having the lowest per capita litter count in Australia by 2016. This equates to reducing littered items by around 40% by 2016.
Cigarette butts contain hazardous chemicals such as nicotine, cadmium, arsenic and lead that are partially filtered out during smoking. When a butt is discarded, these chemicals leach into the environment, contaminating our waterways and land.
Cigarette butts contain over 4,000 chemicals, including 43 known carcinogens such as ammonia, nitrogen dioxide, formaldehyde, hydrogen cyanide and arsenic.
Cigarette butts are made from cellulose acetate, a form of plastic. They aren't made from cotton wool or paper.
Cigarette butts can also be ingested by our wildlife, wash into waterways, and spoil the beauty of our natural places.
Will the ban prevent bushfires?
Around 50% of bushfires in NSW national parks have a suspicious or unknown cause.
In Victoria, discarded cigarette butts are estimated to cause about 25 bushfires a year in parks and forests.
An unextinguished butt can smoulder for up to 3 hours.
Banning smoking will help reduce a source of bushfire risk, keeping park visitors and local communities safer.
How will the ban be enforced?
NPWS will concentrate on working with the NSW Government on community education campaigns and peer pressure as a priority.
No smoking signs will be erected in visitor use areas and at major park entrances, and no smoking messaging will appear on visitor publications and the NPWS website.
On-the-spot fines will be issued as a last resort and only to repeat offenders or until the ban is well understood by the community.
Will park rangers have to enforce the ban?
The initiative will focus on community education, with on-the-spot fines used only as a last resort.
When does the ban begin?
The ban on smoking in NSW national parks has commenced with immediate effect.
The ban will initially focus on some of the state's better-known parks, such as Royal National Park, Ku-ring-gai Chase National Park, Blue Mountains National Park, Kosciuszko National Park and Sydney Harbour National Park. Enforcement and signage declaring the ban will be phased in for all parks in NSW over the next 6-12 months.
What fines will apply?
You can be fined $250 under the Protection of the Environment Operations Act for throwing a cigarette butt from a car.
Under the Rural Fires Act 1997, you can be fined $660 for throwing a lit cigarette butt, match or other ‘incandescent material’. In a total fire ban, the fine is doubled to $1320.
Under the National Parks and Wildlife Regulation, you can be fined $300 for smoking where the ban applies.
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I don't smoke but I can see a whole can of worms being opened.
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I hate 2nd hand smoke and buts thrown on the ground, but this is just another stupid unenforceable law ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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^^^^^
I too am a non smoker and truly hate it but it's another case of the idiots ruining it for the rest. Butts are rubbish so butt out and dispose of the responsibly people.
Shane
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My current pet hate is used cable ties left laying around at camp sites. Seriously, it's not that hard to throw them into a rubbish bag.
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Looks like I will have to save some coin and go on one of Richard Branson's air craft and get taken to a planet where I can smoke
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Looks like I will have to save some coin and go on one of Richard Branson's air craft and get taken to a planet where I can smoke
The way his space planes are going at the moment , you only need to get to about 40,000 feet to smoke!
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The way his space planes are going at the moment , you only need to get to about 40,000 feet to smoke!
Too smoke, or go up in smoke lol
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The way his space planes are going at the moment , you only need to get to about 40,000 feet to smoke!
i just hope when they come down they don't land in a NSW NP.......
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So who will they use to enforce this rule?
Perhaps the same rangers who enforce the no littering rule?
Hang on...that don't work either ::)
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I wish they'd concentrate on managing the parks properly and forget about introducing these stupid unenforcable regulations.
It's nearly enough to make me want to start smoking but that'd be just about as stupid.
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My current pet hate is used cable ties left laying around at camp sites. Seriously, it's not that hard to throw them into a rubbish bag.
Keep that in the electrical thread >:D
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My current pet hate is used cable ties left laying around at camp sites. Seriously, it's not that hard to throw them into a rubbish bag.
You could say that about 99% of Shit left behind.. ring pulls, cans, used ****ing nappies, bottles, cans, etc etc etc etc
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BUT, you know where this could lead to......no fires as well...
I go camping to have a fire..summer or winter...cook spuds...keep warm....socialise....it's just part of camping ( fire bans excepted )
Nat parks don't really care if you go camping, but I will avoid them if this escalates into a fire ban..
Idiots throwing a cig butt out a car window is one thing, but a person not being allowed to smoke while sitting around a campfire is unenforcable but also very stupid..( I don't smoke and hate the smell of it )
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Interesting to see how many people cancel bookings and see if this effects revenue over the coming years.
Mark
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Really don't think this will deter anyone, just wish the bloody smokers would dispose of their butts properly
Cheers
Carl
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Prohibition didn't work in the States, so how long before the runners start running and the machine guns come out?????
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Really don't think this will deter anyone, just wish the bloody smokers would dispose of their butts properly
Cheers
Carl
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
X1000!
Cheers,
Disco teddy.
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When recently on Fraser Island was very impressed with how clean the island was, until I looked down while on the walking tracks only to see heaps of cigarette butts being trampled into the tracks. Said there and then smoking should be banned on the Island whoever it would be impossible to police.
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Yahoo
something else to look forward to when I go to work tomorrow, :'(
we the unwilling ;D
led by the unqualified ???
will attempt the impossible ;D
with nothing :angel:
Again!
Truth is I'm willing , just another day, while I accept the pay I accept the task, when I wont do the jobs time to change job's :angel:
Grizzly :cheers:
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Interesting to see how many people cancel bookings and see if this effects revenue over the coming years.
Mark
Could be a possible reason behind it...
After all, they've been wanting/trying to lock people out've NP for ages >:D
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My SWMBO smokes! I gave up about 9 months ago! Never once did we leave our butts around. If there wasn't a bin to put them in, I'd just put it in my pocket! When I smoked and went field, I'd always put my butts in my pocket until I got to a bin.
Don't know why it's so hard! I wonder if those that dropped their butts on the ground would mind me dropping my rubbish in their tent!
Same same, just different!!
Sent from my iPhone using the Tappy thing
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There is nothing worse than to arrive at a camp site where someone has been and the butts are all over the ground.kids going round picking the dirty things up >:(
about time smokers were held accountable for littering.
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So whose going to police it? I hope they don't expect rangers to...
Imagine walkin up to a pack of smashed stoned/pissed 20 somethings all trying to prove themselves to their deadShit mates and telling them to hand over their ID for a fine... specially if it was the 2 girls in the cruiser ute we cruised with around the huts several years ago.
I'd be happier if they focused on making campsites more family orientated and set special areas aside for scrotes...
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Hopefully the national parks office has some notices they can hand out. As the above says. Education first. Then fines later.
The trouble is. Smoking seems to make people so stupid/dumb/blind. They can't read the God dammed NO SMOKING signs anyway.
Maybe we chop off a finger per infringement. 10 chances stumpy.
Us non smokers are the majority. We should all rise up!!
I for one don't want your dangerous second hand smoke covering my campsite! :))
Stick that in your pipes and smoke it. :)
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Next you won't be able to have a drink while camping...I see way more empty cans and bottles laying around than cigarette buts...and these women with the stinky purfume should be banned from public places too...makes me sneeze...lol
Sent from Behind you...BOO
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I might be off track here, but I think the primary focus would be the fire danger of lit butts being dumped in a highly flammable sensitive environmental area (read - weed infested craphole that they can't afford to backburn!)
The littering is another issue as is the passive smoking. (I work on building sites sometimes and its often nail guns at 10 paces when people start lighting up in my face!!!)
Despite my best judgement (or complete lack thereof) I'm going to believe this is a positive step forward.........
Lets hope.
If nothing else, it gets a message out there that people don't like fires being started by lazy numpty's or passive smoking or littering, but then again if you're stupid enough to fling a butt out, you probably don't care anyway.
Cheers
Brian
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Another great idea from somebody who didn't think it through. A politician who needs votes ?
Who is going to police it? The same people who don't police the multitude of laws that get ignored every day.
Sorry to be a wet blanket but this has a very familiar ring to it.
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I gave up smoking 2 years ago but the government needs to ban smoking or let the poor bastards that legal buy a product that's 70% tax have the right to use it without being a criminal.
It's bullShit and hypocrisy
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I can see it now, press release. "Due to the irresponsible few that continue to smoke in national parks, in the interest of public safety we have no choice but to close all access to NSW national parks".
How the hell are you going to police it, all it will cause people to do is to duck out of sight to have a puff, surely that will increase the fire risk.
They already have litter laws in NP's yet I read all these complaints of butts everywhere, why, because it is very hard to police.
Hey, Ive got an idea, we could cut down all the trees in NP's that would make it easier for the rangers to spot smokers, .... and it would reduce the fire risk as well. Thats it I'm going into politics
My first dissclaimer as a politician , I DONT smoke and I hate butts, cans, bottles, dunny paper and any other rubbish left in the bush
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Can see both sides of the argument but i reckon revenue raising has a lot to do with it. Its just getting harder and harder for us 4WDers/Campers. We escape the city and head to the outdoors to let our hair down and relax........its slowly doing a 180. Im not a smoker and none of my family are but i can see the frustration. In saying that cigarette butts are a pain in the bum and i hate seeing them scattered around, a bit of a pigs act so some people need to be a bit more considerate.
:cheers: BD
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I smoke rollies so there's no issue like there is with artificial filters and I make it my business to clean up around our site even the bread tags, cable ties and bottle-tops. Perhaps we need a 20+ Club? ie we guarantee to clean up at least a 20M radius each time we camp.
Be careful what these people start with and their irrational crusade against smoking outdoors. They won't be satisfied until there are no fires or carbon belching monsters in 'their' parks at all. I don't drink but I see the amber broken glass around and if the health warnings, ad bans, etc are good enough for tobacco you can see what's next if you enjoy a quiet beer.
Live and let live and resist this monster nanny state at all costs. We're increasingly being ruled by people who believe you can legislate the perfect society.
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And this is the problem. The asshole smokers now know the rules but think they are above them.
It's simple. Don't smoke in the national park. :). That's the rules.
If you don't like them. Get yourself elected to a position of power and change the rules back. :)
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My current pet hate is used cable ties left laying around at camp sites. Seriously, it's not that hard to throw them into a rubbish bag.
Totally agree - I reckon cable ties are the new plastic bag !
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I can't see this being thought through very well. They won't be able to police it, and its not going to stop people from smoking.
At the end of the day, its littering; people need to be educated
Aaron
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And this is the problem. The asshole smokers now know the rules but think they are above them.
It's simple. Don't smoke in the national park. :). That's the rules.
If you don't like them. Get yourself elected to a position of power and change the rules back. :)
Asshole smoker is what I am in your eyes OK --- maybe you need a smoke to calm down your aggression
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And this is the problem. The asshole smokers now know the rules but think they are above them.
It's simple. Don't smoke in the national park. :). That's the rules.
If you don't like them. Get yourself elected to a position of power and change the rules back. :)
Along with the a$$hole drinkers that leave cans and bottles everywhere
The a$$hole litterbugs that leave rubbish everywhere
The a$$hole wantabee lumberjacks that think they have a right to cut trees down in NP's
The a$$hole DJ's that want to play loud music all night
The just plain a$$holes thst leave their little piles of crap and dunny paper behind every tree
And what about the a$$hole 4wd'ers that rip the crap out of a wet track just because they can
Life would be wonderful
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Abide by the fKIng rules and there is no FKIng issue. Don't smoke in the national parks. Problem Solved. :)
It's apparent smoking makes smokers so stupid they fail to understand how to read and comprehend no smoking signs
Why else would they fail to be able to read the Fking signs?
:). I only have a problem with the minority smokers :)
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My point exactly, problem is there is a lot of people who dont abide by the rules, why not spend the money on education instead of more stupid rules
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And this is the problem. The asshole smokers now know the rules but think they are above them.
It's simple. Don't smoke in the national park. :). That's the rules.
If you don't like them. Get yourself elected to a position of power and change the rules back. :)
Jesus christ settle down a bit Jimmy!
No one likes littering of any description but you don't have to be so anal about smokers, it is however thier legal right even if it does upset your precious feelings
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Abide by the fKIng rules and there is no FKIng issue. Don't smoke in the national parks. Problem Solved. :)
It's apparent smoking makes smokers so stupid they fail to understand how to read and comprehend no smoking signs
Why else would they fail to be able to read the Fking signs?
Absolute "WANKER". And your'e a Victorian also. Ron.
:). I only have a problem with the minority smokers :)
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Asshole smoker is what I am in your eyes OK --- maybe you need a smoke to calm down your aggression
Time to chill out on this subject folks.
I would read the quoted comment to mean, 'those smokers who are a$$'oles as opposed to the smokers who are not', like yourself fishfinder, who would dispose of ones extinguished gaffa butt in a responsible manner and should be allowed to smoke in NSW NPs. Unfortunately for the smokers, neither sub group can legally do that now.
Next on the list will be nappies, babies, babies' mums (because someone has to stay home and look after them), and then bottles,cans, so that excludes 99.99% of the male population.
In the end only non drinking, non smoking, do gooding greenie types will be allowed in the parks, and only if they carry their own cr@p out.
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And this is the problem. The asshole smokers now know the rules but think they are above them.
It's simple. Don't smoke in the national park. :). That's the rules.
If you don't like them. Get yourself elected to a position of power and change the rules back. :)
Ahhh, don't you just love a crusade of the self righteous against the wicked >:D
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Don't smoke in the national park. :) .
Butt it's MY park Ralph :angel:
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but im stupid and cant read the Fking signs???...
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Someones wife ran off with a smoker I think. FML
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I read the release. It's going to be enforced at the popular day use parks (Royal, Syd Harbour, Kurnell etc). Use warnings as preference. Most Rangers and field staff are pragmatic. If you're smoking at a crowded day use area you may be cautioned. If you're smoking discretely in a remote camp and responsible with your butts it's unlikely to be an issue. For the record I don't smoke and I think enforcement is going to be a nightmare. :police:
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Reducing any risk or damage to the NPs is good IMO, but personally I would rather have seen them increase the penalty insanely and let the smokers who do the right thing continue too. Yes it would be just as hard to police but more just.
I see they also increased fines for flicking butts from cars. With modern dash cams this should be easy to police (except for the lawyers that argue mitigating circumstances for there clients?)
So here's a novel idea for butt throwers from cars, on the spot 12mth suspension 2nd office 5 yrs! No right minded person can argue with that?
Nobody in our family smokes.
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I'm a non smoker, but around a camp fire I don't have a problem with a smoker....as long as they don't blow it in my face.....and I'd say, even in a nat park, I'll continue to put up with one, because they won't take any notice of a fine that can't be policed.......but one would hope they either throw their butts in the campfire or in their own rubbish bin.
But, I hope this doesn't spread to a camp fire ban, because that WOULD be easily policed....( bit hard to stub a fire out if you hear a car approaching !! )
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Another non smoker here also and I don't have a problem with considerate smokers as I find that most of them are. What I do have a problem with is the retards that throw their butts out the window of a travelling vehicle. As a motorbike rider I have copped a few buts in my time along with Maccas and KFC wrappers etc being tossed out the vehicle windows by kids of these same retards. I don't agree with a total ban on smokers as this would be just the start of Govt control over us and who knows where this would end. Hopefully a few won't spoil it for everyone. Just use common sense when smoking and disposing of your butts and everyone will be happy.
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So yet again, the issue seems to be the attitude it is done with.
It would appear the problem is not with the smoker, but with the ignorant people who do the wrong thing. YET AGAIN!!!!
Gene pool needs chlorinating....
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Gene pool needs chlorinating....
agree
anyway, someone else said it - while out camping I've regularly found most smokers to be very thoughtful - way more thoughtful than those in suburbia or shops or work etc...
All the gatherings, or trips I've been on most smokers check the wind and go stand away where it wont affect people.. those that done, are usually as smashed as I am by that stage and I couldn't care less.
Around the campfire I don't care as im usually battling the campfire smoke for oxygen....
I think lots of people are getting very much house bound and need to go camping ASAP.. Me included....
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I dropped into my local NPWS office this arvo and had a chat with a staff member who stated that they are incredulous and critical of the ban. It is especially moronic as quite a few of NPWS field workers are smokers and are now subject to the ban themselves. I was told as this is a state government ruling, not a NPWS one it will most likely be put to their union to sort out on discrimination grounds. If it goes in favour of the NPWS workers then one can assume that sets the precedent for all. Yeah, good luck with that guys.
I was also told they have no interest in trying to enforce the ban other than to bring it to park goers attention and that there are bigger issues to address.
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I was also told they have no interest in trying to enforce the ban other than to bring it to park goers attention and that there are bigger issues to address.
Just general everyday people showing common sense. Who'd of thought hey. :cheers:
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Please bring this to Victoria!
Also cant wait till i can visit a local cafe and sit outside and have my lunch without breating in smoke from some inconsiderate prick.
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Along with the a$$hole drinkers that leave cans and bottles everywhere
The a$$hole litterbugs that leave rubbish everywhere
The a$$hole wantabee lumberjacks that think they have a right to cut trees down in NP's
The a$$hole DJ's that want to play loud music all night
The just plain a$$holes thst leave their little piles of crap and dunny paper behind every tree
And what about the a$$hole 4wd'ers that rip the crap out of a wet track just because they can
Life would be wonderful
Too True.
The issue here is that you can't legislate RESPECT! So the easiest option is to do a little grandstanding and get an unenforceable law through parliament that will on the whole be ignored most of the time like the beach smoking bans.
Much better off educating than prosecuting.
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I think there are a couple of people making some full on statements about this subject and I feel it's time to point out a few home truths to them like it or not ::)
1/ smoking is still a legal activity in the majority of outdoors areas
2/ Cigarettes are a legally sold product
3/ More fires are caused by unattended/left camp fires than by cigarette butts
4/ Not all smokers are litter bugs
5/ Not all smokers are inconsiderate of other non smoking people
6/ We live in a democracy here, not an authocracy, this rule will probably be revoked/overturned/reversed/ignored once the general public find out about it
7/ You can always move your seat a couple of feet away if a smoker is too close
8/ You could also ask a smoker to move around a bit because the smoke is bothering you
The word zealot comes to mind when describing some of Vk3bq's comments
but im stupid and cant read the Fking signs???...
Perhaps applies to a lot of other Fking things too ?
And just before you fire up at me I am a reformed smoker of some 30 years, I detest the smell of cigarette smoke, especially in my clothes, I hate the litter that a lot of them leave,and I think that people that smoke are being silly because of the health implications,but that's their prerogative, and atm smoking is a legal activity and I will stand up and defend their rights to pursue that activity
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Please bring this to Victoria!
Also cant wait till i can visit a local cafe and sit outside and have my lunch without breating in smoke from some inconsiderate prick.
70% of outside eating/drinking areas were brought in to accommodate smokers. Oh, there's not many local cafes in National Parks either, better have a whinge about that too. Geeze , don't let the truth get in the way of a good whinge >:D >:D
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I'm also a reformed smoker, so can see both sides too.
Based on what I have seen on my most recent driving trips in the high country, the bigger concern is alcohol in national parks.
Yes, I'm a drinker too, but am really over seeing young scroats in unroadworthy vehicles swigging from cans / bottles when behind the wheel, flinging bottles out the window, etc.
Not to mention the bottles and glass around most camp sites.
AFAIC the rule has always been, 'if you can carry it in you can carry it out." (The obvious exception being human waste.)
Unfortunately, with the level of usage these days, the number who won't comply with such self regulatory rules ruin it for everyone.
With the recent introduction of a charging regime for Vic National Parks I reckon the 'logical' extension is pre-booked camp sites, so that those who trash the place can be held accountable.
I would hate it to come to this, but then I hate the way our 'wild' places are being trashed as well.
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I think there are a couple of people making some full on statements about this subject and I feel it's time to point out a few home truths to them like it or not ::)
1/ smoking is still a legal activity in the majority of outdoors areas
2/ Cigarettes are a legally sold product
3/ More fires are caused by unattended/left camp fires than by cigarette butts
4/ Not all smokers are litter bugs
5/ Not all smokers are inconsiderate of other non smoking people
6/ We live in a democracy here, not an authocracy, this rule will probably be revoked/overturned/reversed/ignored once the general public find out about it
7/ You can always move your seat a couple of feet away if a smoker is too close
8/ You could also ask a smoker to move around a bit because the smoke is bothering you
The word zealot comes to mind when describing some of Vk3bq's comments
Perhaps applies to a lot of other Fking things too ?
And just before you fire up at me I am a reformed smoker of some 30 years, I detest the smell of cigarette smoke, especially in my clothes, I hate the litter that a lot of them leave,and I think that people that smoke are being silly because of the health implications,but that's their prerogative, and atm smoking is a legal activity and I will stand up and defend their rights to pursue that activity
Well said xcvator. Perhaps a little bit of consideration and respect from both sides of this debate would go a long way to reducing the problem.
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There's also an important detail being overlooked here...smoking on/in all Gov owned buildings/property has been banned for a long time, but you still see people smoking in/at them ;)
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But the smokers have no respect. You all say. Stuff the signs. I'll smoke anyway. I'm not the problem.
Respect starts with accepting the rules. Which are very clear. :).
Respect the rules. And you will get the respect you all seem to want.
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But the smokers have no respect. You all say. Stuff the signs. I'll smoke anyway. I'm not the problem.
Respect starts with accepting the rules. Which are very clear. :) .
Respect the rules. And you will get the respect you all seem to want.
Wrong Wrong Wrong
I DID NOT SAY THAT so please before you go making any more wild statements, I suggest you open the closed eye, and take off the zealot hat. I'm starting to get seriously p1ssed off at another noisy minority telling every one else what they can or can't do and twisting facts/statements to suite themselves .
As I did say in a previous comment "Geeze , don't let the truth get in the way of a good whinge" >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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Funny thing is, reading these posts, that most of the people condemning of this rule are reformed or non smokers, probably like myself just sick of seeing silly un-enforceable laws being made by people that have probably never been in a national park in their lives.
The bigger problem here seems to be litter and these rules are being broken now by both smokers and non smokers. WHY, because the rules are extremely hard to police, I would be happier if they got on top of that first and see how things go from there
As for the passive smoking you cant tell me that you would go camping with people that were that inconsiderate would you. All the people I go away with are only too happy to move a few feet or up wind so smoke is not effecting their mates. Also we have a rule that smokers have a can or empty stubby that they use as an ash tray, works for us
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Funny thing is, reading these posts, that most of the people condemning of this rule are reformed or non smokers, probably like myself just sick of seeing silly un-enforceable laws being made by people that have probably never been in a national park in their lives.
The bigger problem here seems to be litter and these rules are being broken now by both smokers and non smokers. WHY, because the rules are extremely hard to police, I would be happier if they got on top of that first and see how things go from there
As for the passive smoking you cant tell me that you would go camping with people that were that inconsiderate would you. All the people I go away with are only too happy to move a few feet or up wind so smoke is not effecting their mates. Also we have a rule that smokers have a can or empty stubby that they use as an ash tray, works for us
Exactly :cup: :cup:
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Yep, I had a brief thought to move this thread to the Electrical folder. ;D ;D
The issue highlighted to me by my local NPWS, ignoring the spin put on by the government, is the toxic litter in the form of butts being left in the parks, not the potential fire hazard or passive smoke risk.
I am an ex smoker and hate the smell of it with a passion but, if someone at the fire I'm sitting at wants to light up, go for it, as long as their smoke doesn't impact mine or my families airspace.
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Yep, I had a brief thought to move this thread to the Electrical folder. ;D ;D
The issue highlighted to me by my local NPWS, ignoring the spin put on by the government, is the toxic litter in the form of butts being left in the parks, not the potential fire hazard or passive smoke risk.
I am an ex smoker and hate the smell of it with a passion but, if someone at the fire I'm sitting at wants to light up, go for it, as long as their smoke doesn't impact mine or my families airspace.
That pretty well sums it up Snow. That and pick up all of your butts after you finish and dispose of them appropriately and we'll all be happy. (well, most of us anyway) ;D
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That pretty well sums it up Snow. That and pick up all of your butts after you finish and dispose of them appropriately and we'll all be happy. (well, most of us anyway) ;D
agree with Snow and you.
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agree with Snow and you.
Are you feeling sick Bird ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D >:D >:D
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wOW,
some heated rhetoric in this thread.
I hope the person referring to people who cant read signs as A-holes, has never ever ever in his life exceeded a posted speed limit / or parked in a no parking zone / etc etc. ;D ;D ;D
This issue is about littering not passive smoking IMHO and the laws to cover this already exist ..they just don't police it.
Jet ;D ;D
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But the rules say no smoking. You are the problem. You say education. But you are happy to ignore it?? Or say f it. I'm above the rules. Why? Why are you above the rules? Because you think it doesn't apply to you or your mates or??
Why is it so hard to follow the rules. If you want to smoke. Stay away from a national park or beach or other banned public space.
I bet you all wear seat belts?
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This thread is great reading. Might go and have a SMOKE. :evil:
Sent from .................
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Who is "YOU" ?
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But the rules say no smoking. You are the problem. You say education. But you are happy to ignore it?? Or say f it. I'm above the rules. Why? Why are you above the rules? Because you think it doesn't apply to you or your mates or??
Why is it so hard to follow the rules. If you want to smoke. Stay away from a national park or beach or other banned public space.
I bet you all wear seat belts?
If I am YOU, I dont smoke
Not saying anyone here is going to break the rules but there is no harm in trying to change an un workable law
I do drive faster than 50kph sometimes though, sorry Fuji, i am trying to reform
After going out the back window of an EH my old man was driving when I was a kid, yep always wear one, everywhere , even in NP's
Edit: should point out I am recovering from surgery and havent worked for seven weeks so am VERY, VERY bored, I will refrain from now on, PROMISE >:D >:D
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But the rules say no smoking. You are the problem. You say education. But you are happy to ignore it?? Or say f it. I'm above the rules. Why? Why are you above the rules? Because you think it doesn't apply to you or your mates or??
Why is it so hard to follow the rules. If you want to smoke. Stay away from a national park or beach or other banned public space.
I bet you all wear seat belts?
Mate!! you're hitting your head against a brick wall, pi$$ing into the wind, pushing the proverbial uphill and we all get your point.
We can consider ourselves told, yes?
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I think there are a couple of people making some full on statements about this subject and I feel it's time to point out a few home truths to them like it or not ::)
1/ smoking is still a legal activity in the majority of outdoors areas
2/ Cigarettes are a legally sold product
3/ More fires are caused by unattended/left camp fires than by cigarette butts
4/ Not all smokers are litter bugs
5/ Not all smokers are inconsiderate of other non smoking people
6/ We live in a democracy here, not an authocracy, this rule will probably be revoked/overturned/reversed/ignored once the general public find out about it
7/ You can always move your seat a couple of feet away if a smoker is too close
8/ You could also ask a smoker to move around a bit because the smoke is bothering you
The word zealot comes to mind when describing some of Vk3bq's comments
Perhaps applies to a lot of other Fking things too ?
And just before you fire up at me I am a reformed smoker of some 30 years, I detest the smell of cigarette smoke, especially in my clothes, I hate the litter that a lot of them leave,and I think that people that smoke are being silly because of the health implications,but that's their prerogative, and atm smoking is a legal activity and I will stand up and defend their rights to pursue that activity
Xcavator, I agree with you
My problem is not with the smokers or litter bugs or others, its with the attitude.
Yes they have a right to smoke, but not at a soccer field in front of my children. That's why they have these laws. The problem is that ignorant people ignore them.
I would suggest the problem is not the smokers, but plain and simply, ignorant people.
I drink, (not too excessively, but I drink) I don't do it where it can harm or affect others though.
I also fart, but I have the respect not to do it while sitting next to others while they enjoy a coffee or a meal.
So I do agree with you, they have rights too and these need to be respected. Also we need to stop judging the actions of all by the ignorant few.
The problem is inconsiderate ignorant fools.
Perhaps ignore their right to oxygen!!!
Brian
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Glad I have a rule of walking away to have a smoke and a think before typing a reply that may be construed as insulting. :angel:
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(http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/thefw.com/files/2013/05/Joker-Meme-Smoking-Dangerous.png)
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Glad I have a rule of walking away to have a smoke and a think before typing a reply that may be construed as insulting. :angel:
Thats so true mate ..i have camped with you and your family and I never even knew you were a smoker.... :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup: to you buddy ,
Thats my whole point the law wont change people who are not as considerate as you.
I mean in the middle of the bush I am to call who exactly for a response to a smoker in my camp site....... I could not even get a ranger to respond when dudes were chainsawing a tree down for firewood in a no fire zone.
NSW could stop the supply of cigarettes ohh thats right just like every other govt they love smokers TAX $$$$$$.
Jet ;D
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I also fart, but I have the respect not to do it while sitting next to others while they enjoy a coffee or a meal.
What if it's a really good one ???? ;D ;D
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I also fart, but I have the respect not to do it while sitting next to others while they enjoy a coffee or a meal.
You don't share?????? ;D >:D
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Please bring this to Victoria!
Also cant wait till i can visit a local cafe and sit outside and have my lunch without breating in smoke from some inconsiderate prick.
Haven't got a dirty diesel particulate disseminator there have you? Ban em and their selfish owners from National Parks along with we petrolhead smokers eh?
Local café on a typical arterial road eh? You ride your griddley there or walk?
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Some peanuts remind me of the time I bought a packet of peanuts from the greengrocers and there it was-
WARNING- This product may contain traces of peanuts.
I certainly bloody hoped so.
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Well after an acquaintance extolled the virtue of ecigarettes (PC term is now vaping) I've been doing some homework on them and the bottom line is, we nicotine addicts should be switching to them and you non-smokers should be encouraging that, despite the protestations of the bedwetters and hypocritical Gummints that will listen to them because it suits their revenue raising.
Essentially vaping nicotine in safe e-fluid removes the deleterious health effects of ingesting tar and other carcinogens in burnt vegetable matter and similarly removes the social externality problem of passive smoking. What's more e-cigarettes removes the fire/bushfire risk and thereby removes any objection to vaping in National Parks. What say you nanny-staters? Are you really only concerned about the deleterious health effects, or are you really just a bunch of puritanical scolds and 'I don't like it!' Paulines and consequently oppose a switch to e-cigarettes for we addicts?
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Happy to see e-fags legalised for the weak willed addicts on two provisos:
1/. These, gum and patches become the only ways addicts can access their fix - otherwise they are just a new method for the purveyors to gain new addicts; and
2/. Given that they are being touted as 'safe', that said purveyors agree to be responsible for medical costs in the event that they prove to be otherwise.
If I could give up fags then anyone can!
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A work colleague has a mate who is gay, tried nicotine patches on his penis. He got the habit down to two fags a day apparently.
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A work colleague has a mate who is gay, tried nicotine patches on his penis. He got the habit down to two fags a day apparently.
Pmsl.
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Essentially vaping nicotine in safe e-fluid removes the deleterious health effects of ingesting tar and other carcinogens in burnt vegetable matter and similarly removes the social externality problem of passive smoking. What's more e-cigarettes removes the fire/bushfire risk and thereby removes any objection to vaping in National Parks. What say you nanny-staters? Are you really only concerned about the deleterious health effects, or are you really just a bunch of puritanical scolds and 'I don't like it!' Paulines and consequently oppose a switch to e-cigarettes for we addicts?
There is no proof that ecigarettes are not harmful to yourself over the long term, or others via the exhaling of the vapour.
But if we are distilling the argument down to smoking in national parks only, the argument is sound, in that it does remove the fire risk, and litter issue.
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There is no proof that ecigarettes are not harmful to yourself over the long term, or others via the exhaling of the vapour.
But if we are distilling the argument down to smoking in national parks only, the argument is sound, in that it does remove the fire risk, and litter issue.
We're talking about harm minimization and not some nonsensical esoteric approach that we should never have switched from burning coal to natural gas until we were 100% sure the latter was safe. 95% will do just fine unless we want to ban steaming cups of coffee around minors in case they get a caffeine hit-
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/e-cigarettes-around-95-less-harmful-than-tobacco-estimates-landmark-review)
Now about that candle soot with candles in restaurants and on kiddies birthday cakes...?
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They should follow it up with some serious poo ticket legislation. Equally unenforceable - but good in principle.
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Happy to see e-fags legalised for the weak willed addicts on two provisos:
1/. These, gum and patches become the only ways addicts can access their fix - otherwise they are just a new method for the purveyors to gain new addicts; and
2/. Given that they are being touted as 'safe', that said purveyors agree to be responsible for medical costs in the event that they prove to be otherwise.
If I could give up fags then anyone can!
Generally I'm a live and let live man but it's a slippery slope you're on with determining who'll get Medicare care and who won't. I'm not overweight, driving a diesel or like the lad playing contact sport with his footy, etc.
Then again if I can take or leave wood fires with LPG onboard the Jayco then I guess we can all abide by a wood fire ban in the interests of community health eh?
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2014/air-pollution/en/ (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2014/air-pollution/en/)
So marijuahana smokers take note here. You're really like living in Beijing along with nico addicts inhaling burnt vegetable matter regularly.
As for noobs taking up 4th generation vaping technology after the Chinese kicked it all off in 2008, firstly they have to get over their peer group pressure to become an extreme outlier among their friends and secondly they'll get no truck under 18 in any vape shop and why would they bother investigating the whys, wherefors and expense of vaping technology, when they can nip down to any supermart or servo and get puffing? As that UK study points out there's no evidence vaping leads to smoking. Quite the contrary if you ask any vaper/95% reformed smoker ;)
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Generally I'm a live and let live man but it's a slippery slope you're on with determining who'll get Medicare care and who won't. I'm not overweight, driving a diesel or like the lad playing contact sport with his footy, etc.
Then again if I can take or leave wood fires with LPG onboard the Jayco then I guess we can all abide by a wood fire ban in the interests of community health eh?
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2014/air-pollution/en/ (http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2014/air-pollution/en/)
So marijuahana smokers take note here. You're really like living in Beijing along with nico addicts inhaling burnt vegetable matter regularly.
As for noobs taking up 4th generation vaping technology after the Chinese kicked it all off in 2008, firstly they have to get over their peer group pressure to become an extreme outlier among their friends and secondly they'll get no truck under 18 in any vape shop and why would they bother investigating the whys, wherefors and expense of vaping technology, when they can nip down to any supermart or servo and get puffing? As that UK study points out there's no evidence vaping leads to smoking. Quite the contrary if you ask any vaper/95% reformed smoker ;)
Are you bored or what ??? ??? ??? ???
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As bored as you reading it but it seemed better here than starting a new thread to get some folks up to date with the latest on the benefits of vaping over smoking but not all threads are of interest for some. I seldom drink alchohol nowadays but accept many do and hence the greater volume of threads and comments about that :cheers:
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Hopefully the national parks office has some notices they can hand out. As the above says. Education first. Then fines later.
The trouble is. Smoking seems to make people so stupid/dumb/blind. They can't read the God dammed NO SMOKING signs anyway.
Maybe we chop off a finger per infringement. 10 chances stumpy.
Us non smokers are the majority. We should all rise up!!
I for one don't want your dangerous second hand smoke covering my campsite! :))
Stick that in your pipes and smoke it. :)
Ok so i am a smoker and always dispose of my butts either in the bin or the campfire. When I am out and there is no bin I put in my pocket as I do when I am out field.
You smokers might be the majority, white caucasian christians are the majority in Australia as well, should we ban all non whites/christians from entering the country???? Where do we stop????
Since when does being a majority give you any more rights than those of the minority.
A simple case of discrimination to the minority. Wonder when a class action will start with this minority group, it's only a matter of time.
If you don't like what I have written that's your right, just as it's my right to smoke...
Cheers Rod.
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threads been locked until one of the mods can come and clean up.
Please place nice and consider others on the forum and it's RULES!!!!!