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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: muzza01 on July 28, 2014, 06:46:32 PM
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I am pretty keen on this getting through parliament. We have a lot of dole bludgers up here in Cairns. They move here from down south due to our high unemployment figures and our lifestyle.
I have a mate who used to work for Centrelink. He has told me plenty of stories about the long term unemployed up here. People that work really hard at failing job interviews and aptitude testing or being so terrible at work that they would get the sack and be back on the dole. Some people work hard making a career of being unemployed.
I am not having a shot at the genuine people trying to get a job just the lazy so and so's who have no intention of ever working.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/abbott-government-to-make-most-jobseekers-participate-in-work-for-the-dole-programs-from-2015/story-fnihsrf2-1227002703245 (http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/abbott-government-to-make-most-jobseekers-participate-in-work-for-the-dole-programs-from-2015/story-fnihsrf2-1227002703245)
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Yep I agree. They should be made to do at least 3 days a week doing community work, i.e. Cleaning graffiti or picking up litter, the crap jobs that cost every local govt money.
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Bloody oath !!!
If you can't get a job, get them emptying rubbish bins, clean up the bush etc. since my taxes pay for them.
Let's make camping free and have the people on the dole service the areas, tracks etc.
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With all the work place health and safety rules i reckon it will only cost a lot more
and not much work would get done these days you have to be trained to hold a shovel ,do a course to do this do a course to do that will end up costing a arm and a leg ,not that i totally disagree with the concept just my thoughts
cheers
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Need to go another step though, drug tests before payment IMHO.
I think work for the dole is a good idea. Sometimes even the most dedicated to finding work can get sucked in to the daytime tv lifestyle and can loose interest in looking for work.
Let's make camping free and have the people on the dole service the areas, tracks etc.
Like the way you think!
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I like the concept but the reality is that it has to be funded, and having worked in Corrective Services trying to get unmotivated people to be "productive" is easily solved in forums but not in reality, The cost of setting this up would be massive and will we the tax payer actually be better or worse off, hey the current system is a shocker so something has to be done just don't know if there is a simple answer. ???
Grizzly :cheers:
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I've got no Issues with WFTD in principle. Where it all turns to sh$t is that there is the lack of capacity for businesses and community organisations to organise and supervise the thousands of intended "targets" of the program.
I've been previously involved in several community based program's, and unfortunately, they weren't worth the worry.
On the flip side, the requirement for everyone to get 40 hits with a business enquiring about work is also a no brainer overkill. A thought bubble at best that seems like a good idea, but an impediment to those doing business. This is what leads to "no work available" signs on doors so searchers give up before coming in. I know, becoz we got sick of cold callers for jobs at our business, and stuck them up to stop being interrupted from what we were supposed to be doing.
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When will the world realise that l cannot go on working all the time . lts stuffing up drinking & camping time . Just send to my account enough & then some to maintain & improve my drinking life style . l work cheap ;D sort of :cheers:
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Anyone noticed that;
- our population is increasing
- our tax base is shrinking
- the retirement age is getting higher
and they want to flood the job market with morons who couldn't find their ass with a bazooka
Can we see an imbalance here?
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Anyone noticed that;
- our population is increasing
- our tax base is shrinking
- the retirement age is getting higher
and they want to flood the job market with morons who couldn't find their ass with a bazooka
Can we see an imbalance here?
Good point. Let's just drug test them. If they are positive. Shoot them!
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Dazzler and Oldmate seem to have it in hand now.
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i spend 24/7 cultivating and selling i leave 3 hrs per fortnight to go to centrelink but to work for what i am entitled to is a joke :)
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Open your minds a little people.
This is wag the dog at its best. We need new boogie men. The asylum seekers are all but stopped. Mmmmm - who can we turn the dopey aussies gaze from the governments stupid policies for a bit......
I know, work for the dole. Yep, dole bludgers. Wrecking the country. Bludging on us workers. Sweeeet!
Lets not invest in our manufacturing industry. Lets keep going with coal. Lets not invest in the future of renewable energy that all thinking countries identify as THE emerging industry. Lets pretend we are the worlds policemen and scare the russians with 50 unarmed cops - oooooh scarey.....
Wag wag wag.
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At the very least, long term unemployment is in dire need of an enquiry. Second, third and fourth generations of unemployment with multiple recipients living in the same house is just a farce. Not to mention very lucrative.
Kids starving whilst Mum and Dad are a full as ticks. Gives me the 5hits!
Agreed.Open your minds a little people.
This is wag the dog at its best. We need new boogie men. The asylum seekers are all but stopped. Mmmmm - who can we turn the dopey aussies gaze from the governments stupid policies for a bit......
I know, work for the dole. Yep, dole bludgers. Wrecking the country. Bludging on us workers. Sweeeet!
Lets not invest in our manufacturing industry. Lets keep going with coal. Lets not invest in the future of renewable energy that all thinking countries identify as THE emerging industry. Lets pretend we are the worlds policemen and scare the russians with 50 unarmed cops - oooooh scarey.....
Wag wag wag.
Yep, agreed 100 times. Just another government trying to pander to what it thinks the electorate thinks it wants to hear, not looking beyond the next election.
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Well thank God I'm now retired ! As the last time this was done I couldn't get any work done ! People coming in all ours of the day , the phone calls , the letters ! I need a beer
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All these programs (work for the dole, 40 applications, etc) are all based on the premise that there is enough work for everyone... They just need to stop being lazy.
I would argue that this is no longer the case in Australia. I think the effort should be going into creating jobs (there will always be those who don't want to work, but nothing [or very little] is going to get these people to work).
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I would argue that this is no longer the case in Australia. I think the effort should be going into creating jobs (there will always be those who don't want to work, but nothing [or very little] is going to get these people to work).
I think you are correct. As a whole, it's generally agreed that 5 to 6 % unemployment is a fully engaged workforce. It's the areas of high unemployment with long term unemployed that need the focus, not every unfortunate person who happens to be out of a job in the other 90% of the country. Muzza mite just be correct in his statement that Cairns has a high representation of those unemployed and not looking for work for lifestyle reasons. There are, however, many other areas where there is high unemployment with no lifestyle reason for living there.
These should be the priority areas for action IMO.
But targeting the easy bulls eye is just lazy politics IMO.
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You might think differently if you were on the receiving end.
I can't get a job over 55 when they see my gray hair you can almost hear the wind up.
I had a good job for 29 years good $. Then I hurt my back at work. :'(
Then they sacked me because I couldn't do the job >:(
2 back operations later and 6 years later and no job and very little prospects.
In all that time. I have tried very hard but in recent times not at all.
my last surgery was in May 2014
very demoralizing. The system is tough enough on people like me.
I do understand though that there are some right fit and healthy bogans out there that need to get off the gravy train.
I was getting $12 a fortnight. with a concession card hardly milking the system.
My feelings about the present centerlink system is very poor, to say the least! >:D
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Open your minds a little people.
This is wag the dog at its best. We need new boogie men. The asylum seekers are all but stopped. Mmmmm - who can we turn the dopey aussies gaze from the governments stupid policies for a bit......
I know, work for the dole. Yep, dole bludgers. Wrecking the country. Bludging on us workers. Sweeeet!
Lets not invest in our manufacturing industry. Lets keep going with coal. Lets not invest in the future of renewable energy that all thinking countries identify as THE emerging industry. Lets pretend we are the worlds policemen and scare the russians with 50 unarmed cops - oooooh scarey.....
Wag wag wag.
Fair enough Dazzler the wag the dog thing has merit, but how did those thinking Countries go during the GFC. Coal and iron ore kept us afloat during that period not the $1000 checks Ruddy handed out.
I think the wftd could have merit for long time unemployed if it is tied to skills training.
Last I heard it has bipartisan support on some levels but the devil will be in the detail.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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Having spent time on the unemployed (redundant) list I'd say don't be so hasty to condem all people who are out of work. Not all of us are (were) dole bludgers.
Try doing 30 job interviews in a month when most of your applications don't even get a response.
Ther simply aren't that many jobs out there if you happen to be a little bit qualified /experienced. And if you have qualifications/experience then nobody will give you a look in at lesser positions as they don't think you'll stick around.
I like the idea of WFTD in principal but what this mob are proposing is draconian to say the least!
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I'm all for it too, but can see where Dazzler is coming from. Too many deadShits around abusing the system.
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I'm all for it too, but can see where Dazzler is coming from. Too many dead****s around abusing the system.
X2
Cheers
Carl
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
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Too many dead****s around abusing the system.
that might be true, but work for the dole wont get them jobs, I don't know how to fix the problem, but this wont.
I get that some people feel it will be a good use of taxpayers money, as far as I can tell its throwing good money after bad.
The last job I applied for took about 12 hours in front of the computer. Cover letter, updating resume, addressing 8 selection criteria, getting some one to proof read it, more editing. Then about 3 hours preparing for an interview. Now things are updated Im sure it will take less time, but to do it properly takes time. The idea that job seekers could make 40 job applications a month is a joke. Sure you can do it, but it would be 40 half assed applications that would likely be ignored.
I cant see how any of what has been announced will improve the system at all. But its probably more about making voters feel happy about it.
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I see politicians flexing their "I'm tough" re-elect me muscles, but no solutions.
Been a while since I was out of work in my chosen field (IT), but when you make 90+ serious applications when the are no jobs (was same time as 9/11, Ansett, HIH etc...) and people tell you, you should be my boss..
Doesn't put food on the table, i took the first casual job that put some money into the house.
Most people I know are the same, they want to work and will have a crack at anything.
Yes - there are some dip****s who need a kick, focus on them.
Random drug testing, & greater random checking of applications / quality of applications.
Real solutions require more than one answer - thinking, not a tag line & off for another cigar.
Tough words & glib answers give the politicians time to do another expensive overseas fact finding tour.
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Having spent time on the unemployed (redundant) list I'd say don't be so hasty to condem all people who are out of work. Not all of us are (were) dole bludgers.
Try doing 30 job interviews in a month when most of your applications don't even get a response.
Ther simply aren't that many jobs out there if you happen to be a little bit qualified /experienced. And if you have qualifications/experience then nobody will give you a look in at lesser positions as they don't think you'll stick around.
I like the idea of WFTD in principal but what this mob are proposing is draconian to say the least!
Agree. it's going to affect all long term genuine job seekers who can't get a job, not just bludgers.
Whilst I don't like dole bludgers, how are they supposed to pay for the transport to get around to this WFTD? They are poor to begin with.
If you say 'who cares', then consider how much increased crime there will be when the real losers decide to steal your gear to hock for the money they need if they are cut off the dole. I had my car 'screwdrivered' for the 5c coins in change in the ashtray - about $1 worth. Nothing else.
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Good point. Let's just drug test them. If they are positive. Shoot them!
We need more straight thinking like this, instead of the airy fairy rubbish that the happy clappers want to push on to us.
I nominate Oldmate for PM
:cup:
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Work for the dole is a good idea in my opinion, but 40 applications a month? That's just crazy, and small business owners will hate it.
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How many remember the last time "dole bludgers" were used as political scape goats? Did it solve the problem?
There are not enough jobs, that's the problem.
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Requiring people to apply for 40 jobs a month??? 3+ a day or are companies supposed to stay open Sundays for interviews too?? LMAO!!! Many people would be lucky if there were 10 jobs a month they are qualified for.
Lets retrain them.. yes, computer courses are around $3500/wk for ONE Microsoft course... No use training them in something that jobs are flying off shore in either...
What about people in remote areas?? Apply for 40 jobs a month in Wheelabarraback? There's only a pub and newsagents in town.... Yes, lets make them move to the big smoke, where they now need Government Assistance to rent that 1 room apartment @ $350/week.
So it will be back to getting your mates dad to sign your form for you, and I'd hate to be in HR as 50,000 applications come in for 1 position as managing director - 49,500 of them from people not qualified but they have to apply to get paid..
So boot them off the dole, give them nothing...
What's the only thing left they can do to support their families?? Turn to crime ... If there are no jobs there are no jobs... And with so many unemployed to choose from, they can pick and choose that nuclear physicist or bloke with very few skills to be the new coffee boy if they like.
People still need to eat and survive... If there are no jobs, you don't give them some form of support they either die or crime.
Another stupid decision by a moronic government that just comes out with kneejerk solutions they don't think through to huge problems.
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http://www.news.com.au/national/abbott-liberal-government-reveals-the-regions-to-be-targeted-under-budgets-new-workfordole-scheme/story-fncynjr2-1226933603538 (http://www.news.com.au/national/abbott-liberal-government-reveals-the-regions-to-be-targeted-under-budgets-new-workfordole-scheme/story-fncynjr2-1226933603538)
YOUNG Aussies on the dole who live in high unemployment areas including outer western Sydney, Byron Bay, Geelong and Logan, are on notice.
They are the first targets of Tony Abbott’s revamped work for the dole scheme.
The federal government will today unveil the initial 18 locations across the country where people under 30 will be forced to start working for the dole.
The Work for The Dole hit list:
1. Fairfield, Liverpool (NSW)
2. Nepean, Outer Western Sydney (including Blue Mountains NSW)
3. Central Coast (NSW)
4. Shoalhaven (NSW)
5. Richmond, Tweed, Clarence Valley (including Ballina and Byron Bay NSW)
6. Coffs Harbour, Macleay, Hastings (NSW)
7. Bundaberg (Qld)
8. Fraser Coast (Qld)
9. Outer North Brisbane (Qld)
10. Cairns (Qld)
11. Logan (Qld)
12. Westgate (north west Melbourne Vic)
13. Goulburn Valley (Vic)
14. Peninsula (south eastern Melbourne Vic)
15. Geelong (Vic)
16. Central and West Metro (south West Perth WA)
17. Northern Adelaide, Gawler (SA)
18. West and North West, Launceston (Tas)
Note Cairns is included. Mind you this news is 2 months old, but it is easier to target the "bold" policy as bad rather than the intent
media..... :cup:
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No mention of a review of the 457 visa requirements , company's asking to import workers should be the first too show they have interviewed the unemployed masses..
Yes WFTD is something that could go along way to helping our country , but as others have said this policy has more holes in it than a pastafarians head dress .. Whos going to supervisor ? allocate ? train ? record ?
cheers
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Whos going to supervisor ? allocate ? train ? record ?
cheers
Look, we just created lots of jobs ^^^^^^. We have people out there that are great workers but age etc maybe stopping them getting a job in the private sector.
Have the willing motivate the ones that have fallen into a rut. You know how hard it is to get going after a long holiday, guess it would be the same for those that haven't worked for a longtime. Get them into a pattern of getting up and out the door and hopefully it leads to branching out into other work.
We are paying them regardless, so let's pay them to do something, I'm sure they will get a better paying job, if they have to work.
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There are not enough jobs, that's the problem.
We have a winner... and at the rate they are flying off shore soon the only jobs will be data entry for the dole office.
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How many remember the last time "dole bludgers" were used as political scape goats? Did it solve the problem?
There are not enough jobs, that's the problem.
Maybe not for everyone but there are too many downhill Skiers out there not even making an honest effort to find one. I think thats the issue they are trying to tackle here.
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Maybe not for everyone but there are too many downhill Skiers
Where did you drag that comment from? ;D ;D ;D
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hopefully it leads to branching out into other work.
I think expensive government policy should be based on more that 'hopefully it will work'
I think it is really demonizing everyone on unemployment benefits as dole bludgers. I cant help thinking that when your job seeking, your full time job is to apply for jobs, spending 30 hours a week working for the dole cuts into the time you can spend applying for jobs.
But this policy is not about job seekers, its about looking good to the voters.
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But this policy is not about job seekers, its about looking good to the voters.
isn't that modern politics? Hoping the lemmings will all forget the previous ****ups...
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Lots of valid points, however something needs to be done / changed as the current system that's been in place doesn't work.
No-one likes change and I'm sure it will be unfair on some who genuinely find it difficult to work, but this proposal will also get many off their back sides who have managed in the past to milk the system.
Is 40 applications a month tough? You bet, but so is working 40-50 hours a week in a responsible job, so why shouldn't people who are unemployed be pushed a bit and forced to make an effort to find work? Hell, I get reminded all the time that life wasn't meant to be easy!
I was made redundant during the GFC, when lots of others were being made redundant too and businesses were closing - it was tough. I was keen and motivated to find work.... because with my wife at home looking after two kids under 5 and a mortgage I had no choice. There's work out there if people want to work and aren't overly fussed with what they do. 40 applications may seem a lot, but once you've set up a couple of template application letters it's simply a matter of changing components of the letter to suit the job you're applying for - its' really not that hard or time consuming.
Is asking people to spend 3 or 4 hours a day looking at job websites and writing applications, and possibly attending interviews really expecting too much?
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I think it's the "Horse to water scenario" and if it don't drink, it dies :) (payments that is)
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Where did you drag that comment from? ;D ;D ;D
They are getting an easy run just like Skiing downihill ;D
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The unemployment figures in Cairns covers all the Cape area. That why our unemployment seems high.
Mark
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Is asking people to spend 3 or 4 hours a day looking at job websites and writing applications, and possibly attending interviews really expecting too much?
I'm just not sure how people will find the time. 25 hrs a week work for the dole, say 5 hrs a day (put in travel and lunch break and its getting close to a full day. Then 3 or 4 hours on job seeking activities. I just hope that job seekers who are milking the system have good access to computer and internet at their home, and are not relying on centerlink or public library access. And they have either a reliable public transport system or a fairy godparent who can keep a car running, I'm guessing on the dole it would be pretty hard to buy and maintain a vehicle.
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Iam lookin for work,been on the dole for 12 months.after being made redundant while on workcover. it's bloody hard to even get an interview . if ya can get to the interview stage your age (1am 58) is a barrier, then try and pass a medical with a stuffed back. last week i sent out 42 resumes. i got 1 phone call from a recruitment company wanting to offer me training. forklift licence i've held it for 35 years. even mates that need someone to help out won't. i could start today doin change overs if i lied about my medical condition, but that could come back to bite me on the arse if something happened. so i send out as many resumes as possible everyday. it must give these labour hire places the Shits gettin my resume.i also do 2 days a week at the local community centre pokin about doin odd jobs. i just hope everyone understands it's not easy.
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I'm just not sure how people will find the time. 25 hrs a week work for the dole,
I guess I have a tougher view and take the approach you have to do what ever it takes. I regularly work 50 hours a week, attend uni after hours plus study a further 10 - 12 hours a week whenever I can find the time. To take the approach that someone won't have time to look for a job after spending only 25 hours a week working doesn't cut it with me. People will find the time if they make looking for a job a priority, rather than an inconvenience.
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I worked 24/7 for a year to achieve what I wanted. During the day I built my business and during the night I drove a truck for movie companies.
Home by 0700 and straight into my work van till 15:00. Came home, had something to eat, chatted with my wife then back in the yard to pick up the truck and be on set by 17:00. Packed up the truck around 05:00, back to the yard then home about 0630 to get back in the work van by 0700.
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Iam lookin for work,been on the dole for 12 months.after being made redundant while on workcover. it's bloody hard to even get an interview . if ya can get to the interview stage your age (1am 58) is a barrier, then try and pass a medical with a stuffed back. last week i sent out 42 resumes. i got 1 phone call from a recruitment company wanting to offer me training. forklift licence i've held it for 35 years. even mates that need someone to help out won't. i could start today doin change overs if i lied about my medical condition, but that could come back to bite me on the arse if something happened. so i send out as many resumes as possible everyday. it must give these labour hire places the ****s gettin my resume.i also do 2 days a week at the local community centre pokin about doin odd jobs. i just hope everyone understands it's not easy.
Yours certainly sounds like a genuine case but unfortunately there is a lot that are not. Hopefully you find something real soon. 12 months without work would be extremely hard. Good luck :cheers:
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I guess I have a tougher view and take the approach you have to do what ever it takes. I regularly work 50 hours a week, attend uni after hours plus study a further 10 - 12 hours a week whenever I can find the time. To take the approach that someone won't have time to look for a job after spending only 25 hours a week working doesn't cut it with me.
People will find the time if they make looking for a job a priority, rather than an inconvenience.
You're making the error of assuming that everyone else is like you - that they all have the same motivations, same physical abilities, same geographical situation, etc.
I do agree with your last sentence - but finding the time is a lot different to finding a job, and a common refrain is that the job hunt can be a highly demoralising experience.
Caveat, I have been employed continuously since 17 (27 years this year) so what do I know about job hunting. I supposed I'd better bone up, as the work I do is going to India (along with all the tax dollars that used to go to the Australian government).
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yeah everyone will have a different view regarding this, I have seen plenty of genuine people looking for work & interviewed plenty who begged me not to hire them.
My son, who is 12 (because he's too young yet)is getting frustrated that he not allowed to get a PT job as he can't wait to work at an aussie disposals or a rays outdoors ;D, while he's at high school
Swannie
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FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, very passable, that, very passable bit of risotto.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Nothing like a good glass of Château de Chasselas, eh, Josiah?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You're right there, Obadiah.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Who'd have thought thirty year ago we'd all be sittin' here drinking Château de Chasselas, eh?
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In them days we was glad to have the price of a cup o' tea.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
A cup o' cold tea.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Without milk or sugar.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Or tea.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
In a cracked cup, an' all.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we never had a cup. We used to have to drink out of a rolled up newspaper.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
The best we could manage was to suck on a piece of damp cloth.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
But you know, we were happy in those days, though we were poor.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Because we were poor. My old Dad used to say to me, "Money doesn't buy you happiness, son".
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, 'e was right.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye, 'e was.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
I was happier then and I had nothin'. We used to live in this tiny old house with great big holes in the roof.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
House! You were lucky to live in a house! We used to live in one room, all twenty-six of us, no furniture, 'alf the floor was missing, and we were all 'uddled together in one corner for fear of falling.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Eh, you were lucky to have a room! We used to have to live in t' corridor!
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Oh, we used to dream of livin' in a corridor! Would ha' been a palace to us. We used to live in an old water tank on a rubbish tip. We got woke up every morning by having a load of rotting fish dumped all over us! House? Huh.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, when I say 'house' it was only a hole in the ground covered by a sheet of tarpaulin, but it was a house to us.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
We were evicted from our 'ole in the ground; we 'ad to go and live in a lake.
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky to have a lake! There were a hundred and fifty of us living in t' shoebox in t' middle o' road.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
Cardboard box?
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Aye.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
You were lucky. We lived for three months in a paper bag in a septic tank. We used to have to get up at six in the morning, clean the paper bag, eat a crust of stale bread, go to work down t' mill, fourteen hours a day, week-in week-out, for sixpence a week, and when we got home our Dad would thrash us to sleep wi' his belt.
SECOND YORKSHIREMAN:
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at six o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of 'ot gravel, work twenty hour day at mill for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would thrash us to sleep with a broken bottle, if we were lucky!
THIRD YORKSHIREMAN:
Well, of course, we had it tough. We used to 'ave to get up out of shoebox at twelve o'clock at night and lick road clean wit' tongue. We had two bits of cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at mill for sixpence every four years, and when we got home our Dad would slice us in two wit' bread knife.
FOURTH YORKSHIREMAN:
Right. I had to get up in the morning at ten o'clock at night half an hour before I went to bed, drink a cup of sulphuric acid, work twenty-nine hours a day down mill, and pay mill owner for permission to come to work, and when we got home, our Dad and our mother would kill us and dance about on our graves singing Hallelujah.
FIRST YORKSHIREMAN:
And you try and tell the young people of today that ..... they won't believe you.
ALL:
They won't!
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yeah everyone will have a different view regarding this, I have seen plenty of genuine people looking for work & interviewed plenty who begged me not to hire them.
My son, who is 12 (because he's too young yet)is getting frustrated that he not allowed to get a PT job as he can't wait to work at an aussie disposals or a rays outdoors ;D, while he's at high school
Swannie
He can work in limited areas at 12, but at 13 he can work in retail - all info at youth central, have a read
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He can work in limited areas at 12, but at 13 he can work in retail - all info at youth central, have a read
Thanks mate, I keep telling him he needs to be 14 & 9 months
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You're making the error of assuming that everyone else is like you - that they all have the same motivations, same physical abilities, same geographical situation, etc.
I agree, but you've hit the nail on the head in my opinion - why are some people less motivated than others to get employment? The answer is for a lot of people right now they don't need to be motivated cause it's too easy to stay in the system, make little effort to look for work and simply stay long term unemployed. Really, why should it be acceptable for one person to be less motivated than another to find work?
If being unemployed becomes a hard gig, then surely people will be motivated to find and keep employment?
I'll be the first to admit I'm a bit jaded about the long term unemployed and my views may not sit well with some - here's why. For 30 years I've watched as one side of my family have lived as the "traditional" dole bludgers. They could have worked, but chose not to and live a life full of excuses. They've pulled scams, faked injuries and eventually managed to get themselves on a disability pension. They live a modest lifestyle in a government supplied house and by no means seem to be doing it tough. Now the second generation is coming through the system and surprise surprise, none of them can find work either. The 20 year old already has 3 kids to 3 different women and has supposedly developed a bad back stopping him from finding work - probably from shagging as it certainly isn't a work related injury as he's never had a paying job.
I'd like to think is an isolated case, but they live in a neighbourhood full of people of the same ilk. Just gets under my skin thinking that our taxes pay for this sort of rorting, hence why rightly or wrongly I reckon the system needs a shake up - sorry for the rant :-[
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Thanks mate, I keep telling him he needs to be 14 & 9 months
Thats the way get the little fella working early to pay for some more mods on the 80 >:D
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politicians just flexing their muscle. Reminds me of Howard"I'm tough" re-elect me im nr muscles, but no solutions at all.
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"Ask not what your your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country."
Sadly work ethic is an attitude and too many people are either not taught it, or just don't follow it.
This is made worse by the growing numbers who abuse it.
Work for the dole simply won't work. All it takes is for lazy numpty to "roll his ankle" and then claim compo...............
Its a perpetuating cycle.
Attitudes need to change.
If you want to work in this country you can. Maybe not the job you want or think you deserve, but you can always get work.
This fails in remote areas and areas of extreme unemployment due to job shortages, but surely a policy can be made to allow for extenuating circumstance.
It can also be made to allow for laziness, pride and pure greed too.
Sadly I'm a tradie not a pollie so I don't have the answer, but I do know that this scheme just simply won't work.
Start trying to change attitudes rather than policies.
Perhaps food stamps or smart cards rather than cash for drugs and cigarettes might be a start.
And on the issue of drug testing - Can anyone offer a plausible reason why not?
I need to be "clean" to drive and to work, so surely to get benefits that someone else has worked for the least you can do is not waste their money on drugs.
Now back in my day........................... ;D
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When they reach 12 months unemployed remove the cash payments and give them debit cards to use for food, utilities, public transport etc. This will at the very least make it more difficult for bludgers to spend it on drugs, alcohol, tobacco and pokies but I suppose in the end the government gets a good portion of the payment back in taxes if they do.
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And on the issue of drug testing - Can anyone offer a plausible reason why not?
Cost.
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Cost.
Failure rate lol :) Those dirty druggies, Indica users however need a little couch time :) and since sativa are better outside, they have more energy?
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Can of worms....................
There will always be a percentage of people unemployed / unemployable......maybe 5% is our notionally full employment rate.
The unemployed don't save money, it all goes back into the economy one way or the other.........drugs, ciggies, booze food.....whatever...
What happens when the wftd program takes jobs from those people living and working on the fringe of poverty who are now competing against those who are wftd............
Economically speaking you are dealing with the minorities and some sensitivity is required............but how much and to whom?
I think Abbott has taken a sledge hammer to the situation where more consideration is required...........
Basically I am fubared if I know how to treat it.
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Yep I agree. They should be made to do at least 3 days a week doing community work, i.e. Cleaning graffiti or picking up litter, the crap jobs that cost every local govt money.
so when they start doing that what about the people that are doing that now ,what you just sack them
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This has been attempted for years. One day someone will come up with the right answer.
Work for the Dole is an Australian federal government program that is a form of workfare, work-based welfare. It was first permanently enacted in 1998, having been trialed in 1997.
It is one means by which job seekers can satisfy their mutual obligation requirements. Other means include accredited study, part-time work and volunteer work.
Placements are available in a wide range of areas including heritage, the environment, arts, community care, tourism, sport and making and maintaining community services and facilities. Most projects benefit the general community through services and adding value to civic assets, however, some projects in drought affected areas are designed to benefit private enterprise (through the Drought Force scheme).
Upon successful completion of a Work for the Dole placement, participants are usually eligible for a Training Credit to assist with accredited training ($800 for six months, less for less time), a Passport to Employment package of job application training, and a fortnightly transport supplement.
Work for the Dole services are delivered through community or local government bodies, or by the Green Corps. Job seekers may be required by the government to take part in Work for the Dole if they are aged 18 or 19 years, recently completed Year 12, getting the full rate of Youth Allowance, and have been getting payments for three months or more, or aged 18 to 49 years, getting the full rate of Youth Allowance or Newstart Allowance, and have been getting payments for twelve months or more.
In addition, job seekers aged 18 and over who get either allowance can volunteer to participate in an activity at any time. Those participating in the program usually do so for 32 hours per fortnight. Each placement lasts for six months, and is followed by six months without obligation to participate.
Work for the Dole participants may receive an extra $920.80 per fortnight, on top of their Allowance payments.[1] Protective clothing is provided by the project sponsor if it is needed. Essential training, such as occupational health and safety training, is also provided. Transport costs are not separately covered however, and can easily absorb the additional payment - especially for those undertaking the "full time" version.
Work for the Dole was first proposed by the Liberal Party of Australia in 1987, and was enacted on a trial basis a year after it gained power at the 1996 federal election in their traditional coalition. Despite mixed feelings among younger people, at whom the program was aimed, there was little mainstream opposition when it was launched.[2]
On 1 July 1998, all job seekers aged 18–24 that had been claiming benefits for six months or more were required to join the scheme. From 19 April 1999, job seekers aged 17 or 18 and who had left Year 12 had to join the scheme after three months of job seeking. During the 2000 Summer Olympic Games, all those of an eligible age who had been unemployed for three months or more and lived in Sydney were required to participate. This temporary change was made to encourage people to take up casual work during the Games. In December 2000, Work for the Dole was expanded to include those aged 35–39. Additionally, those aged 40–49 could volunteer themselves for the scheme for the first time. On 1 July 2002, Training Credits were paid to those completing the scheme for the first time. The initial amount was $800 for six months work.
In December 2002, the Drought Force initiative was enacted. Previously, all Work for the Dole projects directly benefited the public, community organisations or civic assets. However, this scheme expanded the scope to include work for privately owned agricultural properties in areas deemed to be experiencing exceptional circumstances (generally drought). On 1 July 2006, "Full Time Work for the Dole" was enacted for those seeking work for 12 months or more. They were directed towards a scheme identical to the standard form, except that the fortnightly hours of participation was increased to 50.
Despite speculation otherwise, the Rudd government maintained Work for the Dole.[3]
Criticism
When the scheme was first announced in the late 1990s, some observers suggested it was ill-conceived from both social and economic viewpoints. For example, Bessant queried the Government's justifications for the scheme, which centred around providing a means for young people to get back into the workforce by improving their work ethic as a misunderstanding of the causes of youth unemployment. Bessant went on to say there is no evidence that poor attitudes towards work, disorganisation or other personal deficits are the primary source of youth unemployment, rather it is the result of globalisation, the exportation of unskilled labour and increased application of labour-saving technologies in industry.[4] From an economic perspective, the scheme was praised for its potential, but the fact that it was not fully voluntary would make it difficult for employers to establish whether a person had the positive workplace characteristics associated with voluntary participation, or the less desirable characteristics associated with compulsory participation.[5]
Several academics have pointed out that Work for the Dole is the embodiment of a paradigm shift in which welfare support is no longer being considered a "right", but rather "conditional support" in which unemployed people are expected to undertake their “mutual obligation”. Shaver suggests this violates the assumption that all citizens are equal in the status, dignity and worth that are necessary for full participation in democratic society.[6]
Subsequent studies have investigated the impact of Work for the Dole in Australian society and found that because it compels or contracts individuals to contribute, it "may actually weaken their long-term commitment to society",[7] while another has suggested it may be discriminatory because it was found to benefit men but not women.[8]
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Fair enough Dazzler the wag the dog thing has merit, but how did those thinking Countries go during the GFC. Coal and iron ore kept us afloat during that period not the $1000 checks Ruddy handed out.
I think the wftd could have merit for long time unemployed if it is tied to skills training.
Last I heard it has bipartisan support on some levels but the devil will be in the detail.
A good point.
Though what is often missed is that they support the economy.
A small percentage of our tax goes to bludgers (I am talking the lazy ones).
They buy smokes, grog, pies and chips from the local shop.
They buy cars and pay rego (sometimes)
They buy petrol and tyres and shop at $2 shops.
All that goes back into the economy and makes supports local business.
Pretty abstract I know.
The thing is, the reason the govt raise this is to take our gaze from them. Its the magicians pretty assistant. Why do magicians assistants have nice long legs and yummy yummy breasts. To take your eye. No different here.
You can tell how fair dinkum they are by their actions. When Holdens and Ford announced the pull out of manufacturing the govt could easily have looked to the future and said something like;
"we are going to invest in the future and in jobs. We are going to build the best zero emission vehicles in the world."
cheers
daz
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A good point.
Though what is often missed is that they support the economy.
A small percentage of our tax goes to bludgers (I am talking the lazy ones).
They buy smokes, grog, pies and chips from the local shop.
They buy cars and pay rego (sometimes)
They buy petrol and tyres and shop at $2 shops.
All that goes back into the economy and makes supports local business.
Pretty abstract I know.
Now you mention this I remember reading an article along these lines. But in the article they added in the short life expectancy due to drug/alcohol abuse and their general life practices. I think the said that these were cheaper to keep because they die young.
Wish I could remember where I read this so I could post it up.....
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Work for the dole is a good idea in my opinion, but 40 applications a month? That's just crazy, and small business owners will hate it.
What about large business.......I'm currently recruiting, 99 applicants for two positions. I would hate to think how many I would get if every man and his dog applies to meet some stupid quota
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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so when they start doing that what about the people that are doing that now ,what you just sack them
Umm no, they become supervisors. We are paying them now, keep them on "as managers" to look after the the wftd people. There is more parks etc to be cleaned of litter and graffiti then what your local council can handle.
:cheers:
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I think the program has merit and I'm only talking about the real 'dole bludgers' here, not those seriously looking for work. I would also love to see drug testing. We all like to bag the government of the day no matter what they do, but something needs to be done. It's too easy to say "yeah who cares, they're just druggies and bums, keep feeding them just enough to keep them out of our hair until they die". But that is a disgusting attitude as it forgets 1 huge factor, their kids. We need to break the cycle so these poor kids who through no fault of their own are born into these circumstances. I don't have the right answer, but I haven't heard a good argument here to justify leaving the system the way it is.
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I think the program has merit and I'm only talking about the real 'dole bludgers' here, not those seriously looking for work. I would also love to see drug testing. We all like to bag the government of the day no matter what they do, but something needs to be done. It's too easy to say "yeah who cares, they're just druggies and bums, keep feeding them just enough to keep them out of our hair until they die". But that is a disgusting attitude as it forgets 1 huge factor, their kids. We need to break the cycle so these poor kids who through no fault of their own are born into these circumstances. I don't have the right answer, but I haven't heard a good argument here to justify leaving the system the way it is.
Yeah I agree, there is a real difference between a dole bludger, and someone that needs welfare payments. I still say drug test em then shoot em hahahaha
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You can tell how fair dinkum they are by their actions. When Holdens and Ford announced the pull out of manufacturing the govt could easily have looked to the future and said something like;
"we are going to invest in the future and in jobs. We are going to build the best zero emission vehicles in the world."
cheers
daz
- our population is increasing
- our tax base is shrinking
- the retirement age is getting higher
We talk about it costing too much to drug test dole recipients. Who would pay for these vehicles when the car companies cant even make money? (sorry for getting off topic)
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here is what the ABC are saying about this topic in the NT, some interesting points.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-29/unemployment-policy-work-for-the-dole-fruit-picking-dave-tollner/5633270?section=nt (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-29/unemployment-policy-work-for-the-dole-fruit-picking-dave-tollner/5633270?section=nt)
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Theres a pretty good reason some people are long term unemployed. I know a few and iam certain I wouldnt employ them.
Hence the fact that nobody else does either.
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Won't take long for someone to develop an app that cross references the yellow pages for business in your area and automatically sends out 40 applications.
Bugger should have kept that to myself...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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This has been attempted for years. One day someone will come up with the right answer.
Work for the Dole is an Australian federal government program that is a form of workfare, work-based welfare. It was first permanently enacted in 1998, having been trialed in 1997.
It is one means by which job seekers can satisfy their mutual obligation requirements. Other means include accredited study, part-time work and volunteer work.
Placements are available in a wide range of areas including heritage, the environment, arts, community care, tourism, sport and making and maintaining community services and facilities. Most projects benefit the general community through services and adding value to civic assets, however, some projects in drought affected areas are designed to benefit private enterprise (through the Drought Force scheme).
Upon successful completion of a Work for the Dole placement, participants are usually eligible for a Training Credit to assist with accredited training ($800 for six months, less for less time), a Passport to Employment package of job application training, and a fortnightly transport supplement.
Work for the Dole services are delivered through community or local government bodies, or by the Green Corps. Job seekers may be required by the government to take part in Work for the Dole if they are aged 18 or 19 years, recently completed Year 12, getting the full rate of Youth Allowance, and have been getting payments for three months or more, or aged 18 to 49 years, getting the full rate of Youth Allowance or Newstart Allowance, and have been getting payments for twelve months or more.
In addition, job seekers aged 18 and over who get either allowance can volunteer to participate in an activity at any time. Those participating in the program usually do so for 32 hours per fortnight. Each placement lasts for six months, and is followed by six months without obligation to participate.
Work for the Dole participants may receive an extra $920.80 per fortnight, on top of their Allowance payments.[1] Protective clothing is provided by the project sponsor if it is needed. Essential training, such as occupational health and safety training, is also provided. Transport costs are not separately covered however, and can easily absorb the additional payment - especially for those undertaking the "full time" version.
Work for the Dole was first proposed by the Liberal Party of Australia in 1987, and was enacted on a trial basis a year after it gained power at the 1996 federal election in their traditional coalition. Despite mixed feelings among younger people, at whom the program was aimed, there was little mainstream opposition when it was launched.[2]
On 1 July 1998, all job seekers aged 18–24 that had been claiming benefits for six months or more were required to join the scheme. From 19 April 1999, job seekers aged 17 or 18 and who had left Year 12 had to join the scheme after three months of job seeking. During the 2000 Summer Olympic Games, all those of an eligible age who had been unemployed for three months or more and lived in Sydney were required to participate. This temporary change was made to encourage people to take up casual work during the Games. In December 2000, Work for the Dole was expanded to include those aged 35–39. Additionally, those aged 40–49 could volunteer themselves for the scheme for the first time. On 1 July 2002, Training Credits were paid to those completing the scheme for the first time. The initial amount was $800 for six months work.
In December 2002, the Drought Force initiative was enacted. Previously, all Work for the Dole projects directly benefited the public, community organisations or civic assets. However, this scheme expanded the scope to include work for privately owned agricultural properties in areas deemed to be experiencing exceptional circumstances (generally drought). On 1 July 2006, "Full Time Work for the Dole" was enacted for those seeking work for 12 months or more. They were directed towards a scheme identical to the standard form, except that the fortnightly hours of participation was increased to 50.
Despite speculation otherwise, the Rudd government maintained Work for the Dole.[3]
Criticism
When the scheme was first announced in the late 1990s, some observers suggested it was ill-conceived from both social and economic viewpoints. For example, Bessant queried the Government's justifications for the scheme, which centred around providing a means for young people to get back into the workforce by improving their work ethic as a misunderstanding of the causes of youth unemployment. Bessant went on to say there is no evidence that poor attitudes towards work, disorganisation or other personal deficits are the primary source of youth unemployment, rather it is the result of globalisation, the exportation of unskilled labour and increased application of labour-saving technologies in industry.[4] From an economic perspective, the scheme was praised for its potential, but the fact that it was not fully voluntary would make it difficult for employers to establish whether a person had the positive workplace characteristics associated with voluntary participation, or the less desirable characteristics associated with compulsory participation.[5]
Several academics have pointed out that Work for the Dole is the embodiment of a paradigm shift in which welfare support is no longer being considered a "right", but rather "conditional support" in which unemployed people are expected to undertake their “mutual obligation”. Shaver suggests this violates the assumption that all citizens are equal in the status, dignity and worth that are necessary for full participation in democratic society.[6]
Subsequent studies have investigated the impact of Work for the Dole in Australian society and found that because it compels or contracts individuals to contribute, it "may actually weaken their long-term commitment to society",[7] while another has suggested it may be discriminatory because it was found to benefit men but not women.[8]
at least reference as a copy / paste :cheers:
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Havent got time to read any more , got to go to work :cheers:
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(http://verkoren.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/lqfjsee.jpg)
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It seems that it is easy to create a group of people who we blame for our problems.
This thread demonstrates how easy it is to take the emotional baggage associated with a community problem (lack of jobs) and dump it on a small group of people
note the drug taking, lazy, pierced group we have created that some feel free to not only make work but drug test and "shoot"
Meanwhile the failure of the government/s to fulfill their economic responsibilities becomes less of an issue
" Scapegoating (from the verb "to scapegoat") is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame as a scapegoat."
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When they reach 12 months unemployed remove the cash payments and give them debit cards to use for food, utilities, public transport etc. This will at the very least make it more difficult for bludgers to spend it on drugs, alcohol, tobacco and pokies but I suppose in the end the government gets a good portion of the payment back in taxes if they do.
and the things they purchase with the card would be used to exchange for the booze drugs etc
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note the drug taking, lazy, pierced group we have created that some feel free to not only make work but drug test and "shoot"
Shoot. Tongue in cheek mate. Take a chill pill.
:cheers:
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Bottom line is that we do live in a country full of opportunities if you actually want to participate and contribute. I have no doubt there are some that genuinely cannot find work. But there are a majority of unemployed that have created a very nice lifestyle for themselves and have over generations educated their young on how to buck the system. These people want no part of the system, but are very happy to put their hand out and squeeze every cent they can in services that should only be available for ones that truly need it. Tehn we might be able to afford to increase the amount of services and payments to pensioners and truly disabled.
Seems that we need a reality check in this country. Maybe we should send our long term unemployed overseas for a while. When they come back they would have a different perspective, as our immigrants do. They seem to make it work.
If people want to live at the beach and not go to work, dont want to be part of the system. Well great! Starve!
Yes there will be more crime, because these people are takers and the world owes them. But one problem at a time eh.
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Quote from: Snapman007 on Yesterday at 04:56:23 PM
When they reach 12 months unemployed remove the cash payments and give them debit cards to use for food, utilities, public transport etc. This will at the very least make it more difficult for bludgers to spend it on drugs, alcohol, tobacco and pokies but I suppose in the end the government gets a good portion of the payment back in taxes if they do.
and the things they purchase with the card would be used to exchange for the booze drugs etc
and the things they purchase with the card would be used to exchange for the booze drugs etc
Yep, as I said, at the very least it would make it more difficult for them to obtain these items.
Plus, there would have to be some incentive for the other party to do the exchange, which means their debit cards would buy/exchange for less than cash.
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It's good in theory, but the practicality of administrating such programs mean there not financially viable. Like someone else said take away the dole the only option is crime. So what costs more dole payments or prisoners. I would suspect the "hardcore" bludger would turn up, get injured & then expect to go on compo.
I have my own business & its died in the are hear, had a look at Bunnings website for maybe part time work, after an hour of trying to figure out how you make an application, I just gave up. So I can only imagine how deflating it must be for someone who is long term unemployed
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Yes there will be more crime, because these people are takers and the world owes them. But one problem at a time eh.
I'd rather prevent some deadShit robbing and stabbing my family.. one problem at a time ??? WTF?
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Work for the dole is a good idea in my opinion, but 40 applications a month? That's just crazy, and small business owners will hate it.
I agree with you Symon and it is not productive if i wanted to cheat the system i could just also write to the large companies expresssion of interest section in their careers section of the website in question have cover letter and resume ready to go and smash out 40 of these before lunch
I do like the 25hrs a week work however and maybe 10 what i call solid applications a month in areas you have skills in
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Well, I'm going to be unemployed in 2 days ( retrenched )....but I'm not going to winge about it ...yet....but seeing as I can't get on the dole for a long time yet, I will have to get a job..........IF I can find one...
I've been on the dole once before ( 15 yrs ago ) and for a person who wants to work, it is a place I personally don't want to be....but being 55 yrs old, the reality is it might come to that..
Working for the dole is an old idea, and one that doesn't work !!
If you are genuinely out of work and out of money, how do you get to "work" each day ? pay your own way, which eats into your dole payment.....and the work you do doesn't get you a job, it's just cheap labour for whoever signs up to use you.....and the true dole bludger has always got a way around it anyway !!
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Back home I know blokes who have not worked a day in their lives since leaving school. Some would be in their 60s now and still smoking cones every day, snortin Shit, shootin up other stuff, pissing on every weekend, partying, renting, no car, no license, some have lost their licenses for 20yrs but they are enjoying THEIR world...
Its not for me - which is why I left.
Some of these blokes have not a care or plan in life in the world. Most of them know the system dole backwards - better than the moronic staff at Centerlink or what ever they are called this week.
Most have been sent on training courses many times over the years, many have been booted off the dole dozens of times and go back on after a short time - many do cash work for mates.. Some get the dole AND cash work. Some used to in the old days get multiple dole cheques... But that's not isolated to my home town...
There will always be people like this - that's just how people are. Some strive to succeed work like dogs their whole lives - others couldn't give a Shit.
But you cant tar every unemployed person with this brush. I have mates whose trades have disappeared from this country, things they worked 20-30yrs at which was their only job they knew that doesn't exist.. Retraining sounds easy but can be damn ****ing expensive. Then you have to get a start in a company with ZERO experience at an older age.. This is a big downer for many employers.
As said work for the dole, is just cheap labour = and it makes the unemployment figures look better every month for the party in power. I believe that they consider 1 hour a week as employed with the "Current unemployment figures" each month - talk about a fallacy...
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I am not in favor of the WFTD , but I do wonder if and when they bring this in ,
What rights will these people have in regards to payment verses hours worked ?
If you are working for payment you are classified as an employee and the person/company who you are employed by is the employer.
As an employee of the Govenerment ( Working for the dole ) these peolpe should be getting no less than the minimum wage per hour of employment.
I have copied/pasted information from the Fair Work Ombudsman.
The national minimum wage is currently $16.87 per hour or $640.90 per 38 hour week (before tax).
Casual employees covered by the national minimum wage also get at least a 25 per cent casual loading.
The Fair Work Ombudsman has a number of resources to assist employers and workers find their right pay. These resources can be accessed from www.fairwork.gov.au/pay (http://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay).
Fair Work Ombudsman
Minimum wage
Employers and employees cannot agree to a rate of pay which is less than the applicable minimum wage.
An employee cannot be paid less than the base rate of pay that would be payable to them under a modern award.
A contravention of a term of a modern award or a national minimum wage order may result in penalties of up to $10,200 for an individual and $51,000 for a corporation.
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As I said in my very first post:
I am not having a shot at the genuine people trying to get a job just the lazy so and so's who have no intention of ever working.
There are plenty of bludgers out there that have no intention of ever working a day in their life. Some of these people are generation driven, that is their parents have never worked a day in their life and they are just following in their footsteps. Some of them have falsified medical conditions that give them pension entitlements and social housing.
To be honest, I am sick of subsidising these people's lives. It might be a ploy from the government to distract the voter; so what? If it makes life a little more difficult for them to get the dole then so be it.
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As I said in my very first post:
I am not having a shot at the genuine people trying to get a job just the lazy so and so's who have no intention of ever working.
There are plenty of bludgers out there that have no intention of ever working a day in their life. Some of these people are generation driven, that is their parents have never worked a day in their life and they are just following in their footsteps. Some of them have falsified medical conditions that give them pension entitlements and social housing.
To be honest, I am sick of subsidising these people's lives. It might be a ploy from the government to distract the voter; so what? If it makes life a little more difficult for them to get the dole then so be it.
BINGO!!!
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I have a view that changing it from a "Work For The Dole" scheme to a "Get Bored Crapless" scheme is the way to go.
If people on welfare want to actively participate in work for the dole, make it so the more work you do the more dole you get paid, and if you choose not to work then you get locked into a secure enclosures with nothing to break the boredom for 5 hours per week day, with enough lights and sounds to prevent sleeping.
That way any useless dole recipients who want to go surfing/bludging/drinking/smoking/drug taking all day instead of participating in improving themselves or the area, would soon learn that it's better to work and get paid than sit in a room by yourself with no break from tedium.
Any extra money given to the participants in the working scheme would be returned indirectly to the Government as the money is spent so it is not wasted.
Another money raising idea would be to take the kids from drug addled crack whores and other low life mothers who spit out kids just to claim the baby bonuses and sell them. It would be a bonus for the kids to have parents who actually want them and the Government could make $30 000+ per sale.
I also agree to drug testing all recipients of welfare.
Cheers
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Ive been thinking about it today, and you know what. Give em all a payrise, extra $200 a week should do it, we pay pollies, and they are the biggest dole bludgers at all. Actually, lets send all the dole bludgers into the govt houses and they can all sit there and bludge together, at least it will look like they are working :)
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Ive been thinking about it today, and you know what. Give em all a payrise, extra $200 a week should do it, we pay pollies, and they are the biggest dole bludgers at all. Actually, lets send all the dole bludgers into the govt houses and they can all sit there and bludge together, at least it will look like they are working :)
Sounds like the Greens policy suggestion last week, increase the welfare payment by $50 per week and scrap WFTD.
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I'd rather prevent some dead**** robbing and stabbing my family.. one problem at a time ??? WTF?
are you serious? Do you really think we as a country should do nothing just because we fear that all the bludgers will turn into violent crooks? That space is generally reserved for druggies etc. If they are going to do it, it will happen anyway. Society these days seems to be frozen. No one wants to get involved because of fear of reprisals, so what? We let the crooks and the takers win? WTF?
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It seems that it is easy to create a group of people who we blame for our problems.
This thread demonstrates how easy it is to take the emotional baggage associated with a community problem (lack of jobs) and dump it on a small group of people
note the drug taking, lazy, pierced group we have created that some feel free to not only make work but drug test and "shoot"
Meanwhile the failure of the government/s to fulfill their economic responsibilities becomes less of an issue
" Scapegoating (from the verb "to scapegoat") is the practice of singling out any party for unmerited negative treatment or blame as a scapegoat."
we did create this group, we made it easier and better off to bludge than to work!
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http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/job-seekers-could-be-forced-to-turn-to-crime-expert-warns-20140729-3cs3h.html (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/job-seekers-could-be-forced-to-turn-to-crime-expert-warns-20140729-3cs3h.html)
good point from one of the comments - at 29 you can be excluded from the dole for 6mths when you lose your job, but at that age you can be married with children, mortgage etc - what happens if cant get money from the dole, cant feed your family, cant pay mortgage or rent but are desperately looking for work and cant afford to get around to multiple job interviews to get the bloody job?
we are talking about battlers - everyday people who don't have bulk savings to fall back on - genuine people.
if they don't top themselves and their family, resort to crime to steal stuff, or borrow from dodgy 'lenders' and max out credit cards - how are they supposed to live? I hate dole bludgers - and they are easily recognisable in the system - but if you lost your job through no fault of your own and cant get another job, have no money etc - its starvation or desperation...
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are you serious? Do you really think we as a country should do nothing just because we fear that all the bludgers will turn into violent crooks? That space is generally reserved for druggies etc. If they are going to do it, it will happen anyway. Society these days seems to be frozen. No one wants to get involved because of fear of reprisals, so what? We let the crooks and the takers win? WTF?
So increasing crime is the answer... thank **** I don't know the question..
and people wonder why I want 5000 acres to myself with razor wire fences, moats, and lazer guided missiles aimed away from the first 100 acres to shoot anything that moves.
if they don't top themselves and their family, resort to crime to steal stuff,
its ok, you may have missed it, crime is the solution.
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- our population is increasing
- our tax base is shrinking
- the retirement age is getting higher
We talk about it costing too much to drug test dole recipients. Who would pay for these vehicles when the car companies cant even make money? (sorry for getting off topic)
They made cars no one wanted.
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Iam lookin for work,been on the dole for 12 months.after being made redundant while on workcover. it's bloody hard to even get an interview . if ya can get to the interview stage your age (1am 58) is a barrier, then try and pass a medical with a stuffed back. last week i sent out 42 resumes. i got 1 phone call from a recruitment company wanting to offer me training. forklift licence i've held it for 35 years. even mates that need someone to help out won't. i could start today doin change overs if i lied about my medical condition, but that could come back to bite me on the arse if something happened. so i send out as many resumes as possible everyday. it must give these labour hire places the ****s gettin my resume.i also do 2 days a week at the local community centre pokin about doin odd jobs. i just hope everyone understands it's not easy.
How are you going these days Greg?
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I think they should just get 3 months of dole then one of three options 1. Enlistment into the ADF. 2. Assigned a entry level job from sweeping floors or stocking shelves at woollies or 3. No more payments
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What a great idea
Think I'll tell the bosses what I think of them, sign up for the rock n roll then enjoy a three month camping trip laying around the beach, before I get a free entry into an Armed service with all the benefeits and trappings that goes with it [ Gotta be a hellova lot better than the clown I put up with now ].... Right hand raised I do solemly swear to up hold Blah blah blahh Quick where do I sign ... before ya change your mind.. ;D
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Tough and emotional topic.
There is no "right" way to handle large scale unemployment, if there was some country would have come up with it by now.
Handing out generous amounts of money with almost no accountability does not work, it just makes it easier for those that don't want to work.
Stopping all forms of assistance can't work either because crime then becomes the only option for those that don't want to work.
The idea of "working for the dole" is just an effort to get long term unemployed back into the routine of getting up in the morning and having a commitment instead of going surfing, hanging out at the park or watching TV all day.
It is not targeted at those people that have lost their jobs through no fault of their own and are prepared to work, however it will affect them.
I know quite a few unemployed people and almost without exception they are looking for a certain type of work and are not prepared to accept anything less. Their comment when told there are lesser jobs available is usually "why would I work for that, I would be better off on the dole".
In most other countries this is not an option and it has got to the point where it should not be in Australia either.
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Unemployment benefit is there for people who lose there job until you find a new one it's not a career some people think they don't have to work we need to look after the battlers and get hard on the bludgers.
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This topic has been done many times, by many people in many countries.
In the end its a vicious circle that is hard to end.
Crime, drugs, mental health, welfare, and self worth are all problems within the welfare system.
A simple, but effective start would be to reduce the cash transactions and introduce "food stamps", the "Australia card" or any other name you choose to give benefit tokens.
But make them only usable at welfare approved outlets for essential items.
Foods such as bread, milk, rice, meat, vegies, fruit. Then essentials like toilet paper, hygiene products, soaps, clothes, shoes etc.
No cash for lollies, smokes, chocolates, DVDs, drugs, going to the movies etc.
Then dish out pamphlets at these outlets explaining our tax free threshold, where they can actually earn up to x amount without paying tax or losing these benefits.
Then the cycle starts to break.
They take ownership of their income and work to provide "extras" in life that they now see as an entitlement.
Foxtel, cigarettes, drugs and movies are a benefit enjoyed from working, not an entitlement.
Slowly but surely these people would realise they can generate an income by working and the more they work, the more they get.
Then when they hit a certain income the benefits would slowly reduce or stop, dependant on the income.
They are then contributing as well as taking, but at least there is some balance.
There is also GST on there expenses and as their income rises, they can start paying tax.
Yes I know its not perfect, and it would be hard to get used to, but if most people are given half a chance or an understanding and helping footing in life, they would be willing to make a go of it.
And of course there will always be the minority bludgers who just choose to be lazy and have no dignity, but that's part of life. Good with the bad etc etc.
If they had their options presented to them and then told their benefits would half on an annual basis, and they see friends and family making an honest go and getting ahead, the tide might turn.
Now before you blast me or think my idea's just crap, consider this...........
Our current system is definitely not working and perpetuating the ongoing generational welfare. At least my idea is a change and having a go.
Give people something to be proud of and to work for. Let them take ownership of their roles in society and see if makes a change.
Kicking my soapbox now, cos it will never change. :'(
Brian
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Hi Brian
I am a bit 50/50 or on the fence with your idea.
Its a balance between keeping them content or going too far and have them steal all our stuff - the scurge of the US.
cheers
daz