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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: weso on August 14, 2013, 12:00:09 PM
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Is any one else going through this at the moment and having trouble with idiot agents. After spending 2 weeks trying to get a counter offer on a house, he could have just said the vendor is not willing to budge on his price.
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Is any one else going through this at the moment and having trouble with idiot agents. After spending 2 weeks trying to get a counter offer on a house, he could have just said the vendor is not willing to budge on his price.
its all a game...they are trying to make as much for themselves... nothign else.. just move on, dont fall for their bullShit.
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I think that it is not unusual for agents to try to keep all interested parties still involved. So telling you something that will get you to look elsewhere is not something that they like to do.
Vendors are also likely to have difficulty making a decision on price so this could also be a factor particularly if the market in that area is not stable.
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Houses are selling in hrs not days or weeks its crazy !!!!!
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A key thing to remember is that the agents are always acting on behalf of the seller - that is after all the person who is paying them. Their job is to get the best price they can for the client - the buyer is not the client.
Once you realise that the process becomes slightly less stressful.
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A key thing to remember is that the agents are always acting on behalf of the seller - that is after all the person who is paying them. Their job is to get the best price they can for the client - the buyer is not the client.
Once you realise that the process becomes slightly less stressful.
Symons you are correct in theory but in practice I have not always found that so. For a seller to drop $10k may have very little effect on the agents commission and gets the deal done. So i have found them to work for/with the buyer. I always swore that the next house I sell i will either do it my self or construct a very proactive commission structure, that makes them work hard to get every last dollar for me, ie if I want $400k I will give them 25% of anything they get me above $400k but drop commission by 25% if they go under $395k
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I know this isnt helping you Wes. My advise with agents is be firm and concise, give deadlines. Try to show them no emotions, discuss things with your wife in private. Let them think they have a hard case here doesn't hurt.
Good luck
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A key thing to remember is that the agents are always acting on behalf of the seller......
No......they're double agents. Some will say or do whatever it takes (to either party) to get a sale......
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Symons you are correct in theory but in practice I have not always found that so. For a seller to drop $10k may have very little effect on the agents commission and gets the deal done. So i have found them to work for/with the buyer.
Each to their own experiences, but $10k is not much of a drop so I can't really say that is doing much for the buyer.
I'm going through the fun of buying another property as I write this, and I am yet to find any agent, of the dozens I have had dealings with over the past year or so (yes I have been looking that long) that is the slightest bit interested in helping out the buyer.
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Worse in UK, my brother has been trying to buy a house there for sometime. Moving to try to get his kids into a better school.
Something like 10 in a row are buying/selling and everybody is waiting for finance and the sale of their house before buying another and invariably, if your down the line, it only takes one to back out and that whole line of buyers/sellers fall apart.
Probably havent explained it too well, but basically, if the guy at the start of the line fails with any reason, you can be dropped out as they all come crashing down.
It sounds bizarre, but it really is that difficult.
In comparision, buying a house over here is easy.
If you understand that real estate agents only line their own pockets........
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If you understand that real estate agents only line their own pockets........
And I don't hold that against them either - they have to make a living somehow. Some of them even host pretty awesome Myswag trips ;D
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Bloody agents, hang I am one ;D
Regretfully there are some poor agents in the industry.
An agent is there to secure the best price for the seller. Problem is a lot of sellers cannot accept what the market will pay.
As a buyer everyone wants an agent to work for them but a good agent should always work for the seller and the seller will always have the final say.
Agents survive on referral business and doing things poorly will reflect on their future business.
It also depends if its a sellers or buyers market. As mentioned tell the agent they have 24 hours for an answer or you are looking elsewhere.
Regarding real estate agents are there to line their pockets. Yes we would like to get paid for the work we do but this does not always happen. You can spend months working on a property and the seller can go with another agent , with draw the property or rent the property out and you don't get paid for the time spent. Recently I had 2 properties that after 2 contracts fall over on finance, after 60 and 90 days on the market and negotiating a price, one decided to withdraw their property and they other decided to go with another agent who would discount their commission. No income.
We only get paid if we sell a property and that can take months before you get paid. It's like someone going to work for a month and your employer saying sorry I am not paying you this month. Also working close to 7 days a week and getting calls in the evening is not everyone's type of job.
Working with buyers trying to find a house can also be difficult as unless you have the stock the buyer is after they will look elsewhere and some agents will not conjunct with another agent so we cannot help that buyer. You can spend days taking a buyer through homes and they buy a property from another agent. You don't get paid for that. But on the flip side they may use you in the future if they were happy with your service and ask you to sell their home.
And you wonder why I drink ;D
Mark
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Yeah, I thought McGir was a real estate guy.
Surely he can let us into the secret world of real estate agents............... ???
We'll disguise his face and voice so other real estate agents dont know who the whistleblower is.!
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As a real estate agent for the past 14 years I feel like I have the right to comment about some of the comments made.
Firstly, not ALL agents are the same.
Agents have a Fiduciary responsibility to the vendor. That means we have to look after the best interests of the seller. But a simple thing like 'communication' goes a very long way. A buyer should be kept informed of how their offer will be dealt with, a time frame of acceptance/rejection of their offer so they know where they stand, and an agent should be upfront if an offer is submitted that is too low, but still present it to the owner - and once presented, get feedback to the buyer. My rule is that an answer has to be given to the buyer within 24 hours upon presentation of the offer, and I make my sellers aware of that when I list their properties. Of course you may need to wait for other offers to come in which may take longer than that, but if the buyer is informed of that, then they understand the process.
And here's the thing many agents fail to realise - buyers eventually become sellers. I find that if you keep both parites in the loop as to what is happening, you can still have a happy buyer, even though you try and get the best possible price for your seller.
Symon - I totally agree with you. If you say to an agent 'please call me if you get another home similar' or something to that effect, it probably won't happen. The reason for that is we get heaps of requests like this every day and you just can't keep track of everyone. Instead of an agent saying 'sure I will' and them never hearing from the agent again, my approach is to be honest and say that we get so many people asking to be put on a list that it's impossible to manage it, but if you want to be kept upto date with what I bring onto the market then Like my Facebook page as everything I get goes onto that.
Again, there are good and bad in everything, but don't judge us all due to a couple of bad agents you may have come across.
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My advice when it comes to houses it buy with your head not with your heart. I know its hard to do but it makes the process a lot easier in the long run.
Consider engaging a buyers advocate if you're having a lot of trouble. Not cheap but can make a world of difference. They have access to data joe average doesn't.
Have a list of must haves and wants.
Have a list of must not haves and undesirable.
Be prepared to talk to the estate agent principal if you're not getting what you want from the acting agent.
Missing a house isn't the end of the world. There will always be another house to make your home.
Don't over capitalise and be prepared to move through the property market over a period of time. Most of us don't buy our actual forever home till about home number 3 even though we shop for our first house as if its our forever home.
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Touche,
Ask, and though will recieve !!!
Cheers McGirr
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Talk about teh flood gates opening up now !!!
ok, who let all the real estate agents out.??
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My advice when it comes to houses it buy with your head not with your heart. /quote]
bingo on that one..
the only auction I ever went to we watched some bloke bidding for a couple... the husband said stop, she said *one more*... about 10 times.. they won! Hubby was crying, saying thats thousands over out budget..... Agents said they expected it to go for around 300-320... it went for way over 400 k.
When she won, she went over and laughed in the face of the other bidder... really was asking for a slapping. It must have been teh house she grew up in or something, cause she want losing.
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My advice (coming from a real estate Agent's son):
Don't tell the Agent your budget or financial or employment situation. If they ask, tell them you are doing fine. Its none of their business.
If you're interested, ask the Agent up front at what price will the Vendor will sell the house for today?. The Agent always knows the selling price wanted but will often act like they don't know it in order to see how much you will spend. If the Agent can't tell you the price the Vendor wants then don't bother the Agent is just going to milk you.
Tell the Agent your verbal offer has a timeline as you are looking elsewhere. Give the Vendors at most 48 hours to accept verbally. Its really not that hard for them to decide to sell or not. They should already know what they want and its just a question of whether you price meets their expectation. If they stall you at this stage they are really just working on other offers or not serious about selling.
If the Vendor counter offers, tell the Agent you will only consider only one reasonable counter offer, then walk away if its unreasonable. If the Vendor really wants to sell to you they will rescind their counter offer.
Try and have multiple properties on the boil, and let the Agents know that you are looking elsewhere and talking to other Agents.
Always avoid houses that have just come on the market, or houses offered in any sort of "pre market launch" or "market preview" state. When the house is fresh on the market and the Vendor gets an offer straight away, they will generally try and cultivate better offers (out of greed) and stall you at the same time as a fail safe. This probably what is happening to the OP.
Never look at a house unless its already offered online with a set price. I once sold a house for $20K over my expectation by getting the Agent to show the house to buyers before it was listed online. The Agent told the buyers to 'make an offer' and one party offered $440K when i was only going to list at $420K.
Never look at any houses listed as "offers over" or "make an offer" or "offers between". The Vendor always has a price that they will sell at and the Agent should tell you if asked. If the Agent won't give a specific price or just gives some vague range then you can look forward to good dishonest milking. Walk away. Looking at or buying houses that are marketed in this way only encouraged the practice. Would you by a second-hand car if it was marketed as "offers over $20k"? Of course not.
Goose.
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An agent is there to secure the best price for the seller. Problem is a lot of sellers cannot accept what the market will pay.
This must make the job a real pain in the butt. We have sold five homes and the only time it took more than a few weeks was when we thought it was worth more than the market would pay.
Do your own research and come to your own conclusion about the value of the property BEFORE speaking with an agent. "What would I pay for this if I were the buyer".
Agents do earn their money and my hats off to most of them.
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As mentioned tell the agent they have 24 hours for an answer or you are looking elsewhere.
As you say there are good and bad agents, and as JKohn said it is best not to tar with the same brush.
A recent experience is that we wanted to place an offer (in writing) for a house that we quite liked, and made what we thought was a reasonable offer considering the market. The agent refused to put it in writing and informed the seller verbally, who turned down the offer. We then decided to look elsewhere. We were prepared to increase our offer, but to not put it in writing tells me the offer was not taken seriously so we walked.
Talk about teh flood gates opening up now !!!
ok, who let all the real estate agents out.??
Just wait until the scotch starts to flow...
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My advice (coming from a real estate Agent's son):
Don't tell the Agent your budget or financial or employment situation. If they ask, tell them you are doing fine. Its none of their business.
If you're interested, ask the Agent up front at what price will the Vendor will sell the house for today?. The Agent always knows the selling price wanted but will often act like they don't know it in order to see how much you will spend. If the Agent can't tell you the price the Vendor wants then don't bother the Agent is just going to milk you.
Tell the Agent your verbal offer has a timeline as you are looking elsewhere. Give the Vendors at most 48 hours to accept verbally. Its really not that hard for them to decide to sell or not. They should already know what they want and its just a question of whether you price meets their expectation. If they stall you at this stage they are really just working on other offers or not serious about selling.
If the Vendor counter offers, tell the Agent you will only consider only one reasonable counter offer, then walk away if its unreasonable. If the Vendor really wants to sell to you they will rescind their counter offer.
Try and have multiple properties on the boil, and let the Agents know that you are looking elsewhere and talking to other Agents.
Always avoid houses that have just come on the market, or houses offered in any sort of "pre market launch" or "market preview" state. When the house is fresh on the market and the Vendor gets an offer straight away, they will generally try and cultivate better offers (out of greed) and stall you at the same time as a fail safe. This probably what is happening to the OP.
Never look at a house unless its already offered online with a set price. I once sold a house for $20K over my expectation by getting the Agent to show the house to buyers before it was listed online. The Agent told the buyers to 'make an offer' and one party offered $440K when i was only going to list at $420K.
Never look at any houses listed as "offers over" or "make an offer" or "offers between". The Vendor always has a price that they will sell at and the Agent should tell you if asked. If the Agent won't give a specific price or just gives some vague range then you can look forward to good dishonest milking. Walk away. Looking at or buying houses that are marketed in this way only encouraged the practice. Would you by a second-hand car if it was marketed as "offers over $20k"? Of course not.
Goose.
Interesting comments.
One, if we don't know a budget that a buyer is looking at do we take them to a $300k house or a million dollar one.
Two, it always always good to know that a buyer has their finance approved other wise there is nothing worse for a seller going to contract and the buyer has no chance of getting finance and the property falls over.
Three, a seller never really knows what they will take when selling a home neither does an agent. A seller has expectations and puts a price on a property hoping to achieve close to that as is there right. A buyer will put in an offer and negotiations start from there.
Four, avoid house that have just come on the market ??
Selling your property for $20,000 more than you wanted was good work by the agent. That's our job. Did your agent tell the buyer sorry but the seller only wants $420,000 don't worry about the extra $20,000.
The real estate agents son must work for the buyer not his client.
At the end of the day if some one likes a home they will see value at a price.
The old saying" a seller wants too much and a buyer wants to pay too little, somewhere in the middle is the truth"
I have not started on the scotch yet.
Mark
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One, if we don't know a budget that a buyer is looking at do we take them to a $300k house or a million dollar one.
Let me elaborate. I'm talking about situations where the Agent is talking to the buyer about a specific house. They are probably at the actual house doing an inspection and the Agent is trying the old "how much can you afford" trick. I've never seen an Agent who doesn't ask this question. If a house is listed at $300K and the buyer admits to the Agent they are pre-approved by a bank to $300K but they only offer $280K, then the buyer is on the back-foot from the start as the Agent knows its safe to try to push them higher.
The Agent doesn't need to know how much the buyer can afford, just that the buyer is acting within their means.
Two, it always always good to know that a buyer has their finance approved other wise there is nothing worse for a seller going to contract and the buyer has no chance of getting finance and the property falls over.
I appreciate your frustration as an Agent trying to sell houses that fall over on finance. And its fair enough to ask if they have finance in order, but its the Agents who enquire specifically about the level of finance & borrowing capacity of the buyer so that they can push the buyer higher in negotiations. City agent ask kind of stuff this straight up and think nothing of it.
Its no doubt different in the country where you often have multiple Agent selling the same house, more emphasis on reputation, etc etc.
Three, a seller never really knows what they will take when selling a home neither does an agent. A seller has expectations and puts a price on a property hoping to achieve close to that as is there right. A buyer will put in an offer and negotiations start from there.
I think most people who decide to sell have a very specific figure in mind for much they want. And the Agent knows its listed at $A but i'll take anything over $B. Its got a lot to do with how much they owe the bank, what they paid originally, their selling costs and so on. So you need to find out from the Agent what the $B figure is.
But regardless, I'm talking about Agents who commonly "feign" not knowing price the seller wants as a way to make initial negotiations more awkward. Its a simple question, it should have an answer. My feeling is that if the Agent can't be upfront about what price the seller wants, then the buyer is probably going to to hustled.
Four, avoid house that have just come on the market ??
Yep. Big problem in Sydney and it's a problem that the OP is most likely having in high turn-over area like Quakers Hill. Imagine a buyer is looking for a house for ages, sees one they like that is 'just listed'. They inspect it straight away and make an offer. The Vendors/Agent then sit on that offer whilst they cultivate other better offers. This is a very common practice now in the cities. My point to the OP is not to waste your time/emotions/effort on those newly listed properties. Wait till there is an open house and its been on the market for a week or two. If you buy it in the first week you will most likely be paying full price.
Selling your property for $20,000 more than you wanted was good work by the agent. That's our job. Did your agent tell the buyer sorry but the seller only wants $420,000 don't worry about the extra $20,000.
I was thrilled... but the point is to warn others of this happening. We didn't ask the Agent to do it this either. We finishing signing up on a Thursday. They had buyers around on Friday and a signed contract on Friday afternoon at $20K over. They never even photographed the house or put up a for-sale sign. If the guy who paid $440K knew we only wanted $420K he probably would have offered something below $410K.
Unfortunately this is becoming common now for good houses to be marketed in this "market preview" state before a price is published. Buyers are invited in an shown the house without being given a specific price, rather they are asked to make an offer. Desperate buyers get carried away and if there are multiple buys on-site it can turn into a mini informal auction. Its great for the vendor but its terrible for the buyer as they can end up valuing the house themselves and paying too much.
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heres one.
Why do houses get listed with "offers over XXXXXXX".
Why not put the amount you want and stop people wasting their time ??? ??? ??? I personally ignored ads like that.. but found it annoying.
If it is "offers over $500,000" Im offering $500,500 - but half the time they want $590000 just wastes everyones time.
The funniest one a mate went through was "offers by X Date"
Everyone had to put their offers (I think with some $) in 1-2 mths early and ... wait and hope. You are not told or given indications until the end - and you cannot re"bid"
In the mean time if you dont get the house you may miss out on 10 others.
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heres one.
Why do houses get listed with "offers over XXXXXXX".
Why not put the amount you want and stop people wasting their time ??? ??? ??? I personally ignored ads like that.. but found it annoying.
Exactly. And if enough people ignored those listings, then the practice would die out. But it won't as i suspect greedy vendors are probably asking for their house to be listed that way thinking it's uncapped profit.
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Unfortunately this is becoming common now for good houses to be marketed in this "market preview" state before a price is published. Buyers are invited in an shown the house without being given a specific price, rather they are asked to make an offer. Desperate buyers get carried away and if there are multiple buys on-site it can turn into a mini informal auction. Its great for the vendor but its terrible for the buyer as they can end up valuing the house themselves and paying too much.
A buyer will only pay what a buyer is willing to pay, regardless if they are the only person interested in the house or there are ten people interested in the house. The agent asked them what it was worth to them. It was worth $20k above what your expectation may have been, but they may have felt that for what they were looking for, their offer was a bargain.
Saying they over valued the house is wrong, perhaps you under valued the house, what makes you right and them wrong? It also works vice versa as well. Often the owner over values the house (puts a high price on it) and the buyer under values it (submits a low offer). Who's right??
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What suburb you looking to buy in Weso? I have a good reliable friend who is an agent for Bennets in the Hawkesbury.
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A buyer will only pay what a buyer is willing to pay, regardless if they are the only person interested in the house or there are ten people interested in the house. The agent asked them what it was worth to them. It was worth $20k above what your expectation may have been, but they may have felt that for what they were looking for, their offer was a bargain.
Saying they over valued the house is wrong, perhaps you under valued the house, what makes you right and them wrong? It also works vice versa as well. Often the owner over values the house (puts a high price on it) and the buyer under values it (submits a low offer). Who's right??
So the Agent valued it at about $420K from memory which became the price expectation and what the Internet ads would have been (had they been listed).
It was certainly a big surprise when the Agent came back saying they had secured a price much higher than that and in less than 24 hours. Normally its wait 3 - 4 weeks and get a price $20K lower. But if the buyer was happy with the price paid then it doesn't matter, so I take your point.
I just warn others though of this kind of practice taking place. Whether its right or wrong, just make sure you tread carefully when you look at a property that doesn't have a listed price tag on it. That's all.
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Hey guys,
We have just been through this process of our new home. Here are some tips.
1. Have your financed approved so you know your budget and don't waste people's time.
2. If you like an area, drive around during the week, during the weekend and at night.
3. Check out the neighbours. Is their place maintained or full of Centerlink employees with 7 cars on the front lawn.
4. Check the local cop shop and get their opinion on the area.
5. Do your home work on what properties sold for in the local area.
6. If you decide on a place and you offer a realistic price. Make an offer but don't budge. Tell them this is a one time and final offer. But you need to offer a realistic offer.
7. If you offer way under market value, offer something in return. Since the new owners were moving interstate and not yet found a house, we offered a 90 day settlement.
8. If the new property has something the owners have and you want, include this in the offer. I wanted his John Deer ride on and out door setting included. Since he was moving interstate and into a smaller house, he didn't need them any more.
9. Ask the agent what what the owners plans are, then refer to question 8.
10. All contract must have "subject to building and pest inspections".
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11. If it seams too hard and the gut feeling tells you it doesn't fell right, move on.
12. You know this is the house because every thing will fall into place and it will be a breeze.
13. If it gets to hard and you start getting pissed off and loosing sleep, move on. This is not the house for you.
These are the rules I always play by when buying houses.
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Insight into selling Realestate.
A seller calls you in and wants you to sell their home. You sit down and chat to the seller and find the reasons for selling, have they sold before with a real estate agent, were they happy with the agent they used previously, is there a figure they want to achieve, how much do they wish to spend on marketing, what options do they wish to market the home ( auction or a price), show them recent sales for comparison properties sold in the area, tell them what buyers you may have looking for a property like theirs, sell the benefits of the office you work for, explain that you work 7 days a week and have constant training in negotiating to achieve the very best from a buyer
The seller will then ask you what you think the home is worth and what they could achieve. Mr seller there will be 3 prices mentioned. The price I may think its worth to a buyer, the price you want to achieve and what a buyer will pay. It does not matter what I think the home is worth as I am not buying it, it boils down to what a buyer in the market will pay. I have an idea going on recent sales but the seller wants to achieve $50,000 more. Mr seller you have the right to market the property at the price you want to achieve. At this stage the seller will decide after interviewing a number of agents to decide who they will pick to sell their home. They will take into consideration your proposal, if they have bonded and feel comfortable with you, the amount of commission you will charge, the marketing budget you proposed ( they all want the agent to pay or spend as little as possible and want you to cut your commission), how professional you are etc. A number of sellers will only consider agents who their cut commission, an agent who over inflates the selling price and the agent who pays for all or most of the marketing even thou they have poor negotiating skills. At this stage you have not got the job but wait for them to say yes or no.
You get the job. You arrange professional photos , write a script, download the property on the Internet, book press ads ( only if they want to spend money on that medium ) , put up the sign , bring the other agents from the office through the home so that they are aware of the features of the home, put the property through the database, do letter box drops around the area, contact the buyers you have, arrange inspections, do up date reports, have meetings in the evening with the sellers to go over the marketing, arrange the next weekend ad and work Sat and Sun doing open homes, more meetings after the open home and mid week, take more buyers through, submit an offer that is declined, give feedback to the sellers and keep doing this for 4 weeks until the press marketing is finished. In this time no further offers and you discuss with the sellers we need to reposition the price, I don't want to give it away which is the typical response from the seller. Price is repositioned. Still no offers or inspections on the home. More meetings and another request to reposition the price. The home has been on the market for 2 months and other agents have contacted the seller telling them they have buyers and to list their home with them. At this stage the seller will either go with the other agent and fall for the lies and you have wasted time and money or they will listen to you and a sale is forthcoming. Great I will get paid in 35 days. The property then falls over on either the pest and building inspection or finance after 21 days. Bugger have to start again and find more buyers. This happened to me recently as the property fell over twice on pest and building and finance. Finally sold it and got paid after 4 months on the market. The property sold for $347,000 and my share after tax was $2500 approx. Not bad for the work done over 4 months.
A buyer wants a bargain like we all do and it all boils down to negotiation. Remember one day you will sell and if the agent you purchased the house from pushed you to your limit or above you would want that agent to sell your home rather than an agent who worked for you as the buyer as they will do the same to the buyer when you are selling.
In the mean time you have to prospect for more properties, call people this is done after hours or on weekends as most people are home send out letters and do letter box drops, do this over and over to achieve an income. You may have a day off during the week but normally I drop in as you get buyers calling you, emails to answer etc. Why not work less hours, you can but with competition from other agents looking for properties to sell like you are, you have to be out and about all the time. Hence not many people last long in the industry.
As mentioned buyers can be actively looking or just wasting your time. You have to interview them and work out at what stage they are at. Have they just started looking and in no rush to buy but want to inspect everything you have, are ready to go and have finance approved and have a budget whether it is self imposed or bank imposed, need to sell first but still want to look at properties, got no idea how much they can borrow but want to look at properties, on holidays and just killing time but want to look at properties etc.
Try it one day and let me know what it's like. Yes it can be rewarding but long hours, away from the family.
Now where's my scotch
Mark
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I insist the agent put my offer in a contract before it is submitted that way I know at least he must be serious if he has to put the time in for the paperwork.
I understand that they are required to submit all offers so it is a good indicator.
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I insist the agent put my offer in a contract before it is submitted that way I know at least he must be serious if he has to put the time in for the paperwork.
I understand that they are required to submit all offers so it is a good indicator.
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By right all offers must be submitted in writing , in Qld anyway, this way the seller knows the buyer is serious and for the buyer it is too hard to dismiss by the seller without thinking about the offer.Verbal offers are easy to dismiss and never have all the facts associated with the offer.Plus it weeds out the buyers who are not serious. I have had sellers say do not bring me offers under xyz, but I take all offers to a seller.
Mark
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By right all offers must be submitted in writing , in Qld anyway........
It's the same in Vic, Mark.
Good write-up at reply #30
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What I dont get is why people get so worked up over it all.
If you dont like agents then sell it yourself.
Be happy. Be nice. Don't get cranky. Don't be greedy.
Work out what YOU want to pay for a property or how much YOU want to sell for and own the decision. This is the biggest problem - Owner wants a billion dollars and when no one wants to pay a billion dollars its every one else's fault. Buyer wants it for free and gets upset when they want money for it.
Smile. You could always be dead or using a boot for a pillow :cheers:
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Spot on Dazzler,
And another thing.
Often agents put more work into selling a crappy $100,000 property than a $500,000.00 one. Don't ask me why but the level of work is usually much more because every dollar counts to both buyer and seller.
This week I sold a shed for $90K.....which was a phenominal amount of f^cking around, especially for the fee level, and leased a medical centre and office that has an annual rent of $250K. Guess which deal was easier to do.
I have to comment on the commission statement as well, the one about discounting by 25% if it sells under a set price.............Good luck getting a decent agent working for you on that type of structure.............yes I agree you will get the bottom feeders, but not the ones who can probably achieve your (realistic) price expectation.
Cheers Nomad.
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Well written Mark.
People think that being a real estate agent is a cushy job - earn $150k a year and drive a nice car - what crap. No wonder less than 5% make it past the first 12 months in real estate.
It is very easy for people to bag agents, but try seeing it from our point of view (which is what Mark wrote above). I've lost count of the number of times I have missed out on part of my kids b'day parties, family functions, putting my kids to bed, and being able to go places with them on weekends. With a commission only job, if you don't put in the hours and effort, there is no income.
There are good agents out there and as was said previously, this job is based on referrals. Ask people you know who they sold with - if they were happy with their agent then they will be happy to pass their name on.
By the way, offers have to be in writing in SA too. If someone doesn't want to write up an offer, then they are not that serious.
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I found it all very easy.
Work 2 jobs and saved $17K.
Find a house I liked, purchased for $49K.
Work 3 jobs and pay off in 3.5 years.
Now worth (this house) $650,000.
Was a private buy, no fees.
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Many of your points are valid in an easy market. Fact is though that at this present time the market is crazy. You can't not look at the "just listed", " offers over" or "offers between" homes. Things sell within a couple of hours of the open home. It's damn crazy, and its being made worse by people paying too much!
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Many of your points are valid in an easy market. Fact is though that at this present time the market is crazy. You can't not look at the "just listed", " offers over" or "offers between" homes. Things sell within a couple of hours of the open home. It's damn crazy, and its being made worse by people paying too much!
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Regretfully it sounds like a sellers market where you are and they can take advantage of this. i would if i was a seller. If you don't pay the price another buyer will. It is hard buying in a market like this but for the seller it's great.
Mark
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We just sold and were very happy witht he agent, but as you said Weso houses are selling in days.
We had enough offers that the agent didn't go back for a counter offer (he probably should but had got us $15K more than we were hoping for so I shut my mouth).
They work on the basis that you provided your best offer for the property. Not sure if this is the best way of doing it but as I said they got us a great price.
Bunyip
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Many of your points are valid in an easy market. Fact is though that at this present time the market is crazy. You can't not look at the "just listed", " offers over" or "offers between" homes. Things sell within a couple of hours of the open home. It's damn crazy, and its being made worse by people paying too much!
I've seen a lot of that in Brisbane as well. The way I look at it is that it is a $%^&load of money to be shelling out, so I'm happy to wait the market out and keep growing the deposit until the prices level out. What is really driving it up is the investors, no wonder people aren't able to own their own home anymore.
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Do you know what, agents drive me f!ing crazy. I exploded at one this afternoon when she tried to do the counter offer thing after promising socks that, that wasn't the way she operated, i gave an ultimatum that my offer stood until 5:00 pm and at 5:01pm it was no longer valid and I would walk away. In the end though, her sales agent partner came back to us within an hour with an acceptance of our offer and we may now be the proud owners of a home together!! Lets hope building/pest is ok.........
Thanks for all the replies but all this happened before I got time to read any of them.
Thanks again
Weso & Socks
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... the agent I bought this place off of, when she got the job to sell the house, walked round telling that the people who lived here 30yrs that they were getting divorced... Neighbours, people over the road the works...
The owners here hadn't told anybody yet as they hadn't got round to it.... they were ropeable when they found out.. I wish they would have gone elsewhere, I hated the bitch myself where I was ready to walk away, but the ex-mistake said this was the place to buy
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I've seen a lot of that in Brisbane as well. The way I look at it is that it is a $%^&load of money to be shelling out, so I'm happy to wait the market out and keep growing the deposit until the prices level out. What is really driving it up is the investors, no wonder people aren't able to own their own home anymore.
Its really only just starting to lift again.
If the market starts to run properly again, i.e. not like the 2003 boom, but in a normal scenario, you are probably better off buying now rather than trying to save and keep up. Your income cannot be capitalized as fast as the value of a property compounding.
My old rule with buying and selling, and it has worked for me for 20 years is that the price is right when a seller thinks they have taken to low a price and the buyer thinks the have paid to much.
Cheers Nomad.
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And you wonder why I drink ;D
Oh....is that why........
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Do you know what, agents drive me f!ing crazy. I exploded at one this afternoon when she tried to do the counter offer thing after promising socks that, that wasn't the way she operated, i gave an ultimatum that my offer stood until 5:00 pm and at 5:01pm it was no longer valid and I would walk away. In the end though, her sales agent partner came back to us within an hour with an acceptance of our offer and we may now be the proud owners of a home together!! Lets hope building/pest is ok.........
Thanks for all the replies but all this happened before I got time to read any of them.
Thanks again
Weso & Socks
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Congrats Wes & Socks.
Hope the building and pest work out OK. What suburb.....
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I have been looking at property and find it interesting to see houses online with 'For sale now', with no price, I thought that it would be obvious that it is for sale if it is on a well known real estate website... I want to know the price... ;D
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Our agent included the price but not the address to ensure all leads came through the office. Calling for the address allowed them to qualify the buyer as well as add them to the mailing lists.
Perhaps this is just taking this to the next extreme.
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Congrats Wes & Socks.
Hope the building and pest work out OK. What suburb.....
Hey MDS we grabbed a great place in rouse hill, thanks for the kind words
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Its really only just starting to lift again.
If the market starts to run properly again, i.e. not like the 2003 boom, but in a normal scenario, you are probably better off buying now rather than trying to save and keep up. Your income cannot be capitalized as fast as the value of a property compounding.
Agree, that's why I'm making offers now - I've already waited for over a year. The prices in the suburbs I'm looking at have bottomed, and are starting to creep up a bit now.
Our agent included the price but not the address to ensure all leads came through the office. Calling for the address allowed them to qualify the buyer as well as add them to the mailing lists.
They all have different 'strategies' - some will not advertise a price, some will, some will not list the address, some will.
I personally gloss over houses that don't list a price or address. I want to know the price so I know if I'm wasting my time or not looking at it, and I want to know an address so I can see the distance to train stations etc without giving my details to an agent. I'm sure those strategies work for some, but as a buyer they don't work for me.
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Come to Tassie & buy my house . . . . .
It's not over priced for the area. Has a big man cave with workshop & parking for 2 big vehicles etc.
We have had 3 contracts for around what we have asked & so far all 3 have fallen over as the banks won't lend them the money . . . .
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I personally gloss over houses that don't list a price or address.
Likewise, I'd want to know the address so I can do a drive by, if I like what I see that's when I'd contact the agent, the same for rental houses.
I also ignore the houses with a price range, I wouldn't be inclined to offer above the lowest stated figure anyway, and it doesn't make me think it's worth any more than the lowest figure.
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Our agent included the price but not the address to ensure all leads came through the office. Calling for the address allowed them to qualify the buyer as well as add them to the mailing lists.
Perhaps this is just taking this to the next extreme.
Oh you have no idea about the level of data a real estate agency collects, and then the massive amounts of data the franchisor, has available. The statistical information is almost endless.
The really interesting thing thats evolving in the market is the information thats is collected about each and every property. Take a bog standard search provider like RPData, most agents use one like this. Now RPData is owned a group called Corelogic. Corelogic owns a suite of other information gatherers and providers. It also provides the systems that most valuers use when they value a house or property that you buy. This information is being collected and collated into single systems. So it won't be long before an agent, or anyone with a subscription can jump online and basically look at your house from a virtual perspective in great detail and I am talking photos, videos, plans, measurements, days on market, sale history, rental prices the lot.
The really good residential operators I know will also sell you your mortgage, insurance, arrange your movers and temporary accommodation if required.
Obviously I don't work in resi like Mark and KJohn, and commercial is a bit of a different specialty, but the seemlessness thats now developing in Real Estate, particularly resi, is only just the tip of the iceberg, and its because of this data collection that this is all happening.
I could go on and on
Cheers Nomad
This is all done in the name of market transparency.
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Our agent included the price but not the address to ensure all leads came through the office. Calling for the address allowed them to qualify the buyer as well as add them to the mailing lists.
Perhaps this is just taking this to the next extreme.
Hang on - they told you that they didn't want to add your address (which turns off alot of buyers in the first place), because they want to add buyers to their mailing list???? Who are these people working for???
And they didn't go back for counter offers because they had so many??? They could have pushed their luck with a few to see how far they would go (again working in the bests in the owner), and could have netted you another $5,000- $10,000!!!
I know you said you were happy with them, but I personally would be pissed!
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Sorry JKohn,
I spelt your name incorrectly.
Would an agent do this because it is an open agency scenario...maybe agent paid advertising?.......Its pretty common in commercial leasing, though I do agree its poor form.
Cheers Nomad. :cheers:
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Sorry JKohn,
I spelt your name incorrectly.
Would an agent do this because it is an open agency scenario...maybe agent paid advertising?.......Its pretty common in commercial leasing, though I do agree its poor form.
Cheers Nomad. :cheers:
Hey Nomad,
We don't do open agency listings over here in SA. It was deemed to work against the seller as the agent will take the first offer they get rather than spend the time negotiating on behalf of the owner.
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Good system,
so do you do exclusive only?
Cheers
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Hang on - they told you that they didn't want to add your address (which turns off alot of buyers in the first place), because they want to add buyers to their mailing list???? Who are these people working for???
And they didn't go back for counter offers because they had so many??? They could have pushed their luck with a few to see how far they would go (again working in the bests in the owner), and could have netted you another $5,000- $10,000!!!
I know you said you were happy with them, but I personally would be pissed!
Bunyip sold his house recently in the same market we are looking at buying. Around here the market is simply crazy! There are 30+ families looking at each open home and sometimes that can be up to 60+. Buyers are pushing up prices by a hell of a lot! Agents don't have to work around here at the moment. They can use the tactics we all hate such ad offers over, orice guides and just lusted advertising. And ou know what! It works! Vendors are getting really really good money. Houses are selling within hours of an open home and the agents just take the highest offer to the vendor. Simple. Crazy! But that's how it it around here
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Hang on - they told you that they didn't want to add your address (which turns off alot of buyers in the first place), because they want to add buyers to their mailing list???? Who are these people working for???
And they didn't go back for counter offers because they had so many??? They could have pushed their luck with a few to see how far they would go (again working in the bests in the owner), and could have netted you another $5,000- $10,000!!!
I know you said you were happy with them, but I personally would be pissed!
They didn't tell me they wanted to add to their mailing list, I should have made it clear that that was my assumption.
Yeah I was happy with them as the other two guys that we talked to were never going to ask anywhere near the asking price ($x50000 rather than $x75000). Remember that we needed this property gone quickly due to me being an unemployed bum. 4 days on the market. Perhaps we could have gone better but we got close to the record price for a 3 bed, 1 bath house in our suburb so not sure there was much meat left on the bone.
*edit* it was exclusive and agent paid advertising. As Socks said houses go really quickly.
They did negotiate with the purchaser and got his initial offer up $15K before presenting it too us so they did work for me. I am not defending them as this was the first house I sold I am really only going off the "reality" shows on how this is done.
Bunyip
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Nomad - we only do exclusive agreements (we call them sole agency agreements). Rarely on a mansion worth a few million you may get two agents working on the one property but it is extremely rare.
Bunyip - the most important thing is that you are happy and achieved what you needed/wanted to out of the transaction :cheers:
As for pricing - here in SA we are not allowed to use Offers Above/Over, or use the terms low/mid/high when quoting a price. We are allowed to use price ranges but only within 10% eg $400,000-$440,000 etc.
At auctions everyone who wants to bid has to register first, then hold up a number when making a bid and the auctioneer has to call out that number when that person makes the bid eg: $400,000 now with bidder 42.
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Come to Tassie & buy my house . . . . .
It's not over priced for the area. Has a big man cave with workshop & parking for 2 big vehicles etc.
We have had 3 contracts for around what we have asked & so far all 3 have fallen over as the banks won't lend them the money . . . .
last house i purchased had a pre aproval for x amount from bank, via mortgage broker in writing, 2 months later had an offer accepted went to apply for loan only circumstances that changed from pre aproval was more put towards as deposit, only to get knocked back on saying we can only borrow 23k less than we got pre approval on, so placed an offer on another house for what the bank said they would loan us offer accepted went to sort out finance only to get knocked back from bank again saying only can loan 9k less- this happened 3 times finally got a house and three months after living there agent selling the first house said the vendors are willing to drop 50k on original offer ???
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We had a buyer that put down a $15,000 deposit on a unit. after asking him 3 times do you need finance he said no it will be cash. No Problem. 30 days later we are about to settle and he then says he better check with his bank who had given him a pre approval. WTF, Bummer the bank changed its mind and would not approve him. He tried 2 other banks no luck. In the end he could not settle and he lost his deposit that went to the seller for breaching the contract.
Pre approvals really depend on the banks criteria. Some times they are not worth the paper they are written on. Plus the property has to stack up to valuation depending on the amount you are borrowing.
Mark
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We had a buyer that put down a $15,000 deposit on a unit. after asking him 3 times do you need finance he said no it will be cash. No Problem. 30 days later we are about to settle and he then says he better check with his bank who had given him a pre approval. WTF, Bummer the bank changed its mind and would not approve him. He tried 2 other banks no luck. In the end he could not settle and he lost his deposit that went to the seller for breaching the contract.
Pre approvals really depend on the banks criteria. Some times they are not worth the paper they are written on. Plus the property has to stack up to valuation depending on the amount you are borrowing.
Mark
in our case we had over 50% deposit surely that is plenty of security for the banks
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Weso and Socks,
This thread has been hijacked! ;D
Back to the OP topic, when do you settle? bet you cannot wait!!!
Congrats.
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Congrats on your new house, I like that shiny and new feeling I get when I purchase a new property! I tends to go away the first time you have to clean the toilet though!
We have an agent around here who puts expressions of interest on every.single.listing.he.has, drives me insane. Doesn't matter what type of house it is, that's how he markets it. Even the oh so common for the area 3 bed, 1 bath houses - expressions of interest.
But the really annoying thing..... It works ????
We bought our house off him, we low balled with the aim of getting the price - worked!
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Its really only just starting to lift again.
If the market starts to run properly again, i.e. not like the 2003 boom, but in a normal scenario,
Maybe where you are, but western Sydney is on fire, prices have shifted up about 10% to 20 in the last 18 months in the sub 500k market
I have just been offered a 25% premium on a property I bought 2 years ago on small acreage outskirts of west Sydney
Congrats weso on your purchase, Rouse Hill will kick plenty of goals in years to come
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Sydney is always the start of the market, in a national price recovery, excluding the mining influence in regional areas.
What your saying confirms my opinion.
Cheers Nomad.
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Pre approvals really depend on the banks criteria. Some times they are not worth the paper they are written on.
And another problem with pre-approvals is that depending upon how they are done, they appear as a "credit application" on your credit history report. It will be for the full amount of money, even though you never actually got the money.
This can make future lenders wary if it looks like you apply for finance all the time.
I say if you haven't got about 10% deposit + plus stamp duty + conveyancing costs, then you best be thinking about saving.
And that's just it - you need to think about the full cost to complete the sale, not just the deposit.
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For my two bobs when I'm looking to buy I engage one agent and let him do all the work. If its an exclusive listing we usually have no worries with the agent getting an agreement on the side to bring in a potential buyer that would not usually be looking.
We email him houses if they vary to our description and has worked well in the past
They also have to do the negotiation etc so you can take the emotion out of the conversations
All the best with it
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Weso and Socks,
This thread has been hijacked! ;D
Back to the OP topic, when do you settle? bet you cannot wait!!!
Congrats.
Thanks bunyip. Loads to do in the next 5 weeks. Short settlement cause otherwise we would be settling on the day before the national meet and we can't have that hey! This way we move in and head out camping a week later OMG!!
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Thanks bunyip. Loads to do in the next 5 weeks. Short settlement cause otherwise we would be settling on the day before the national meet and we can't have that hey! This way we move in and head out camping a week later OMG!!
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Triple garage and white picket fence congrats guys.
Mark
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I sat through a Bernard Salt presentation this morning. Give it 5 years and all the baby boomers will be selling there big arse suburban houses to downsize and that market will be flooded with choice, if you believe the data...
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He has been saying that pre GFC.
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After much heart ache we found a place as per pic above ............hhhmmmm thought I posted one
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/21/6y7eheru.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/22/ma4y4a7y.jpg)
Pest and building cents are now back!!!!!!!!!
Bank valuation is back !!!!!!!!
We just waiting on unconditional approval from the bank and it looks like settlement day will be 18/9/13
Starting to pack boxes ..................
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YAY - congratulations!!!
Nice to have that extra garage for the camper trailer too!!
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John to the right of the drive way is a 6m X 6m concrete pad ready for the man cave to built on
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Sounds great.
Hows looks really good. Congratulations and no doubt your very happy.
Now to the difficult bit, packing.............arrrrr!!
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That's a very nice looking house.
Congratulations.
Bill
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.....the man cave....
The No. 1 priority, Weso...... ;D ;D
Nice looking place.....very neat.... :cup:
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Well done weso.
Let the mods begin!
Cheers Nomad. :cheers:
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Well done weso.
Let the mods begin!
Cheers Nomad. :cheers:
Lol the mods have already begun. We are adding a wall, adding gas, and of corse the man cave (see pic)
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What fantastic news!!!!!
A month isn't a long time to wait for something as great as this.
Bunyip
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Lol the mods have already begun. We are adding a wall, adding gas, and of corse the man cave (see pic)
Never take Weso to the shops to do "research". Man cave gonna have to wait awhile ..... New carpet also added to the mods list and will e installed on settlement day ????
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/29/zajuhume.jpg)
Can't back out now ................
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Awesome !!!!
Nothing like moving to a new home.......!
All the best.
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Awesome !!!!
Nothing like moving to a new home.......!
All the best.
Cheers
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Wahooo, bet your glad that is over with.
Very exciting times and best of luck with the move.
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Wahooo, bet your glad that is over with.
Very exciting times and best of luck with the move.
Glad yes .......... Looking forward to packing boxes ............... Not so much
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Glad yes .......... Looking forward to packing boxes ............... Not so much
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Hahahahahaha - you packing boxes......more like you procrastinating about packing boxes then watching me pack them lol
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packing sucks!! don't leave it to the last minute
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Also,
Chuck crap out before you move and pay for it to be moved. If you don't use it chuck it, sell it or donate it.
Makes life much easier.
Chees Nomad.
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Congrates.... nice place.
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Yep hearing,
We settled on our place yesterday. It belonged to an older couple.
We have spent today trying to get rid of the retirement home smell and I have done three trips to the tip. Thank Christ it is free.
Moving onto acreage is Awsome though.