MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: nbd73 on May 14, 2013, 09:08:47 PM
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Been wondering for a while, what is the obsession with fitting a bullbar? They are generally over $2k fitted, and compared to say a suspension system for example for similar $ which is used & felt every driving moment they seem over rated. Hanging fishing rod holders, spot lights, uhf aerials & winches seems to be their primary use. Costly hanger.
Now I understand everyone says "protection against roos" etc, and I am not disputing that fact, nor the added front end approach angle protection, but how many people honestly use their vehicles in these conditions & environments that often compared to daily use? Not having a go at people with them, just amazes me how new vehicle owners state a bull bar as being the first accessory. Wouldn't a second battery or suspension upgrade be better value for money as a first upgrade?
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We have a prado 150, and it was not on the priority list until we got held up and had to drive between tamworth and coonabarabran at 8:30 one night, it went to the top after explaining to my wife that if we hit an animal, we would be staying on the side of the road until help arrived. I hit roos every so often on the way to and from work in my work cars but until my wife saw it first hand she could see the 2g being spent on shoes and hand bags as a better investment
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I think the decision is dependant on the use of the vehicle. Yes I agree that there are a lot of people who kit out their rigs in the city and will never see a dusty road therefore a cosmetic addition. For my own rig the bar has saved me a lot of grief with all the wild life on the roads here in southern Tassie
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I agree with Noughts.
Yes. And No.
Genuine 4wd'ers and outback drivers ... Yes!
City folk who never put in in 4wd ... No!
Kit_e
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I agree with Noughts.
Yes. And No.
Genuine 4wd'ers and outback drivers ... Yes!
City folk who never put in in 4wd ... No!
Kit_e
And % breakdown of these categories is my discussion point. I just wonder whether too many new 4wd owners get caught up in the accessory adding trend. Kit e, you are always advising on minimalist spending on stuff you don't need, so just wondering how this item fits in. See stacks of people who only want to go to caravan parks and coastal camp grounds, yet still feel a bullbar is a necessity. Thoughts...
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Sadly it is one of those conversations that quickly goes pear shaped and reality gets thrown out the window. If you want a giggle on a rainy night post the question on 4wd action. :)
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Kit is spot on, but its not just roos and approach that a bull bar helps with.
tight turning and using the banks as a guide, trees and rocks. But for the majority an alloy Bar will suffice.
Cheers
Evo
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And % breakdown of these categories is my discussion point. I just wonder whether too many new 4wd owners get caught up in the accessory adding trend. Kit e, you are always advising on minimalist spending on stuff you don't need, so just wondering how this item fits in. See stacks of people who only want to go to caravan parks and coastal camp grounds, yet still feel a bullbar is a necessity. Thoughts...
It's a great place to hang towels over the weekend. ;D
But seriously. They hold a winch well and it can save you from serious front end damage. And you do get Kanga-bouncies in towns on occassion. I'd suggest most have them for looks. It's usually the sides of the vehicle that cop any damage, wear and tear.
The BF has one, and we've needed the winch it holds on more than one occassion ... the real reason behind the bullbar. He doesn't have roll bars, fancy steps or the likes. But please keep in mind that we don't live together, or control each others spending ... he wanted a bullbar - so he got one. I'm glad he also invested in the winch.
Love minimal camping. Gets you back to nature and away from the frustratingly technical world we live in. Brings out your Inner Puppy.
Kit_e
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Sadly it is one of those conversations that quickly goes pear shaped and reality gets thrown out the window. If you want a giggle on a rainy night post the question on 4wd action. :)
Such was not my intention. Was actually going to post a reply to another recent thread on someone buying a new vehicle & speccing a bar, but thought it was getting off track questioning it, so thought I might ask for a general opinion. It appears as though my attitude is out of line with the general consensus, I guess that ARB, TJM etc are catering to a market, I just wondered whether the market has been created rather than needed. Many, many discussions on here suggest that is the case with regards to other products, DC-DC chargers for example. Maybe the topic is irrelevant.
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I reckon nbd73 is right. Walk through any car park at a shopping centre and a good 50% of 4B's fitted with bull bars don't even have a scratch on their bar and the paintwork on their car is immaculate. They are usually fitted with factory alloy side steps that also look brand new. You know the ones that would be bent in half or ripped off the side of the car at the first sign of a real 4B track.
I haven't hit any wildlife with this cruza but the bullbar on the previous troopy saved us.
I certainly wouldn't want to remove my bullbar but I do tend to agree it is probably unnecessary on a lot of cars. Commodore utes is another one. The chassis is that thin that the first very minor impact would result on the bullbar bending across the front of their lovely commodore smashing the grill, lights, bonnets etc.
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Mine came with the cruiser. They are great to lean on with a beer while talking bull Shite to your mates.
You try doing that leaning on a hot bonnet ;D
Mark
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In my situation, Yes. They have saved me more times than I can count on the open road (not just on my current vehicle). Last roo I hit did 10K damage and didnt even dent the bullbar. I hate to think what it would of done if it wasnt there.
On the average shopping trolley that goes to the shops and to get the kids from school No. But that being said I also drive my 4wd to work every day and the shops etc so maybe I look like a poser when doing so..?
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Mine came with the cruiser. They are great to lean on with a beer while talking bull ****e to your mates.
You try doing that leaning on a hot bonnet ;D
Mark
:) :)
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We have gone away from the normal steel ARB style bar this time and gone for an alloy bumper bar type set up instead.
Our last 4x4 had all the bits, ARB steel bar, scrub bars and sliders.......but in 30 years of off roading I never hit anything, now that's not to say it'll never happen but the 4B is sooo much lighter to steer with the new setup it's not funny. We still have somewhere to mount spotlights/led light bars/winches/CB aerials/fog lights and anderson plugs but don't pay the large weight penalty .
I think everyone will have different needs, but for us it's Alloy Bar and less weight !
In answer to the question..............yes, they are necessary, all the accessories need to be bolted to something weather it's a steel/alloy bullbar or a bumper type of set up.
There that's my two bobs worth ;D
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We have always added a bullbar to our 4WD's and are looking at it on a new one. Not for looks but because of the travel we do. Lots of hwy klms and bush travel. As Murphy's law would have it while waiting for the dealer to get the bullbar for our current car we hit a kangaroo while traveling in western QLD.
I guess it is horses for courses like any accessory, suspension for towing and articulation etc etc.
I do agree that too many cars have them for no reason and that only fuels the do gooders wanting to ban 4WD's in cities etc. but that is a whole other debate.
Personally I don't want to be stuck on the side of the road in the middle of no where.
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Mine has saved the front of my 4wd, one day I might learn how to post/link a video from my dash camera, all you see is the poor buggers head popup above the bar just to the left of centre and then bang. Result not so good for the roo but no damage to the car or bar
Couple of years ago, going to Bathurst we hit one in a mates brand new Commodore ute, $5500.00 damage
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Good sense being made here. We need one up here as not only the Roos running out in front of us which now number 11 hits now, but also cattle. Not that any bar will save you if you hit one of them but you have a fighting chance.
Not sure what the point is for those that never go away and as Kit_e says they do hold spot lights and a winch.
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Mine came with the cruiser. They are great to lean on with a beer while talking bull ****e to your mates.
You try doing that leaning on a hot bonnet ;D
Mark
I used to do that with my old series 3 LR, but then the damn thing never ran hot, never ran into anything, in fact very rarely ran. Hardly relevant to my OP, but having expunged those virtues of a BB in my 20's I feel secure about debating the merits of said accessory from a more mellow (read aged) stage in life.
All good, but still think the majority (who will never read this) buy unnecessarily. Decent suspension will win for me any day of the week. Having had OME fitted to previous vehicle, cannot wait to upgrade the 200. But that also is irrelevant to the question I posed. Appreciate the other points of view, they are just so costly for what they are, compared to other items. Was thinking of an ARB Sahara bar, but almost same price as full BB. Bugger.
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One other thing to consider for town users - cars are designed to minimise damage to pedestrians, cyclists who inadvertently decide to become a hood ornament. Bull bar - no chance. If the bull bar is for decoration and not going to be used in the bush - then any advantage given to saving life's in an accident is worthwhile.
If roos are most likely accident - get a bar.
Driving round town - no bar.
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Like any modification you make. Know why you are doing it. For my I like 4wding and along with a bull bar, side bars etc etc lockers are just as important for me. For others they don't need any of these things. Know why you are adding or modifying before you do it.
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One dark night, a few years ago, we hit a cow with our Paj. It was at Wandong, 50km north of Melbourne, on the Hume Freeway. We were doing 110km/h at the time. Bull bar did it's job........we managed to drive home, shaken but not stirred.
Experiences like that tend to colour your view a bit.........
Six weeks prior, we had a Falcon wagon......... :o
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One dark night, a few years ago, we hit a cow with our Paj. It was at Wandong, 50km north of Melbourne, on the Hume Freeway. We were doing 110km/h at the time. Bull bar did it's job........we managed to drive home, shaken but not stirred.
Experiences like that tend to colour your view a bit.........
Six weeks prior, we had a Falcon wagon......... :o
Yep, I reckon it would have coloured your undies too :cheers:
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One dark night, a few years ago, we hit a cow with our Paj. It was at Wandong, 50km north of Melbourne, on the Hume Freeway. We were doing 110km/h at the time. Bull bar did it's job........we managed to drive home, shaken but not stirred.
Experiences like that tend to colour your view a bit.........
Six weeks prior, we had a Falcon wagon......... :o
Fair point.
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Im sure we will all agree there is certainly a fair share of 4wders out there who not only have unnessacary bullbars on, but several other bolt on accessories as well that they could really do without ;D
I think the requirement for a bull bar depends a lot on what you use your 4wd for. So me I like to have one. Provides good protection from roos when travelling at night (which we tend to do on quite a few holiday trips - making the most of the bitumen runs we often stop around 11-12pm), also good low speed off road protection for the front end from rocks, logs etc.. Plus a place to bolt the spot lights too
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If it was easy to do I would remove my BB when not going somewhere I may need it, but with the lights attached (and soon to be arials) this would be a pain in the rear end (front end actually :D).
I do not drive near school zones when I can avoid it, I have seen way too many kids running out between cars and not looking.
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Accessory holders are a necessary evil and you don't need to be out west to need one. The 1km of coastal heath lined road between the roundabout at the entrance to our estate and the servo is regular wallaby highway.
The road to the in-laws place is cattle country, and they're regularly out on the road at night, also only 20 mins from the beach.
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Yep, I reckon it would have coloured your undies too :cheers:
Yea, I would be sh1t scared as well ;D
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Yep, I reckon it would have coloured your undies too :cheers:
No time for any of that. All over in the blink of an eye.
If the Paj wasn't fitted with a bull bar, we may have been injured. We certainly wouldn't have driven home.
If we (all 4 of us) weren't in a 4wd, we'd probably all be dead........
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For us, we live in a rural area, and have always chosen to add a bulbar to our 4wd's. With saying that, the only roo we've ever hit was years ago when one jumped into us, while we were stopped! We seem to have more in our street than what we ever see while travelling. Not sure about them being a 'necessity' but we always feel a bit 'naked' until the bar goes on. The only thing attached to ours at the moment is the aerial - no spotties, no winch.
My teenage son has a tuff bar on his cruiser ute, necessary or not, I don't know, but for him, I think it just goes with 'the look' he wants. Yes, it also has aerials, spotties, winch attached! He likes it, and that's what counts for him!
Same son also made a miniature matching tuff bar for his 4 wheeler, also has spotties, winch and aerial attached! :D
Dee.
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Such was not my intention.
I know your intentions were good and it is a good discussion but they normally go bad. :cheers:
I probably jinxed this one ;D
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I know your intentions were good and it is a good discussion but they normally go bad. :cheers:
I probably jinxed this one ;D
No, not you Dazzler, you wouldn't jinx a thread, would you ;D
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I live in a rural area in SA and frequent the flinders ranges (5 hour drive through roo country) on trips we only travel between 8am and 4pm, I haven't invested in a bull bar , insurance/RAA will cover us for a worst case scenario.
Dual battery was number one priority
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I always have one fitted to every 4x4. Modern 4x4's only have a flimsy plastic bumber bar to protect intercoolers, radiators and aircon gear. Who decides who should or should't have one? I have seen a kangaroo bounce up Plenty rd in Mill Park last month. Middle of suburbia.
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It's the cows rather than Roo's but as I also travel up he Gibb for work and even last week a trip to Balgo with a late return saw us miss about 10 Roo's and stupid bloody cows. As noted, it is very situational.
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Still trying to grapple with this issue as we are neither bushies or city slickers. We manage to get away once a month for weekend trips and 2 or three longer trips a year. Next year we are heading from sydney up to Darwin and back for several months. But rest of time car is the daily work commute doing the usual fight in shopping centres.
So the decision is EITHER ...... no bar as a lot of use is in the city therefore not carting extra weight for no reason makes sense .....OR. Get the bar due to those times we are travelling.
??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
If only they invented one that was easy to take on and off! :D
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I live in the country and do alot of night driving in high animal risk country........wouldnt be without one, I have hit 2 roos in the last 12 months, and struck a cow a glancing blow, no damage to the pootrol at all.
Horses for courses but would not be without mine.
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It is a tough one to many. As I'm out and about - remote every week it s easy but would I carry the weight around if I wasn't out there, I don't think so.
I suppose there is no real easy answer.
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Until you can justify the reason for having it, you don't need it, until the day you do and then you wish you did.
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We live in the country, roos, emus, deer & stray stock are a big hazard on our roads.
I wouldnt own a 4x4 without a bull bar.
:cheers:
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I live up in "tuffbar" country.
I have a bulbar, but I don't get the whole truck 5 post bull bar that looks like the front end of a dozer. They are every where up here in Toowoomba.
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Accessory holders are a necessary evil and you don't need to be out west to need one. The 1km of coastal heath lined road between the roundabout at the entrance to our estate and the servo is regular wallaby highway.
The road to the in-laws place is cattle country, and they're regularly out on the road at night, also only 20 mins from the beach.
Interesting, this would imply every vehicle on the road in this area should be fitted with a bar.
So far most people have stated the very valid safety aspect, which as I said in the OP I am not disputing, but 4wd's are not the only style of vehicle to travel the roads in these high risk areas or times of day. So why do so few passenger vehicles get bars fitted in comparison? Are the drivers/owners of these vehicles less safety conscious than 4wd owners?
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Would agree with most of the previous regarding animal and cyclist strikes (yes I put them in the same category).
Possibly due to my driving techniques I have found my self resting the front or side of the patrol against trees. This is only slow speed 4being but still better on bars than panels.
Imho though I think the biggest reason people get them is that 90% of 4bees look absolutely sh$thouse without them. And yes that does include Patrols.
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Imho though I think the biggest reason people get them is that 90% of 4bees look absolutely sh$thouse without them. And yes that does include Patrols.
How true
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Walk through any car park at a shopping centre and a good 50% of 4B's fitted with bull bars don't even have a scratch on their bar and the paintwork on their car is immaculate. They are usually fitted with factory alloy side steps that also look brand new. You know the ones that would be bent in half or ripped off the side of the car at the first sign of a real 4B track.
I don't think that is a good indicator of if a 4wd is being used for it's intended purpose. I look after my Prado and I use it in the bush, I just don't drive the hard-core tracks I drove in my GQ i.e. I know the limits of the Prado. You don't have to drive hard-core tracks to have fun.
Regarding the original question, whilst I haven't hit a roo yet I see about one a week dead on the side of the road where I live along with shattered glass and car parts. I also regularly travel areas where deer/cattle etc. roam. The other reason is it gives me somewhere to hold my winch and spotlights.
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I don't think that is a good indicator of if a 4wd is being used for it's intended purpose. I look after my Prado and I use it in the bush, I just don't drive the hard-core tracks I drove in my GQ i.e. I know the limits of the Prado. You don't have to drive hard-core tracks to have fun.
No, that is not what I am saying. I am simply trying to put it in perspective of the OP's Q. I think generally speaking, a lot of 4x4's have a bullbar fitted because everyone else has one not because they actually need one. I am sure they would say they need it for protection against roos or cattle but i bet the family sedan his not fitted with a bar.
I think a lot of Patrols, Pajeros and Cruza wagons have been purchased by families that wanted a people mover. There are a high percentage of these in every city and most are fitted with a bullbar??? why, I don't know.
So what is the intended purpose of a 4wd? I would say to use it as a 4wd. But lets be honest, a lot of 4x4's are bought as a people movers and perhaps people feel safer driving one. Once again i don't know
We have a few roos around where I live. I end up with a roadkill roo on the back of my acre block every 4-5 months or so.
I don't have a bullbar on the front on my sons car or my wife's car for protection.
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Two points
I've had a bull bar on all 4 4wds I've owned. Twice I've been able to continue my trip after impact damage that without the bulbar, would have required a flat-top or tow. And I'll tell you a flat-top from Kalumbaru to Kununurra, then somehow home to Darwin, wouldn't have been cheap.
Point two: if we're going to judge people who put a bull bar on when WE deem it unnecessary, we should be prepared to be judged on our own wants and desires.
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timely thread..........i guess you will need to list whats most important to fit first
agree front bars are handy to fit things to......however
i am about to remove front bar and go back to a standard bumper, i just need to work out where to mount my UHF aerial...i have decided to ditch the driving lights so no problem there
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Plenty of roos where I live
I have an alloy bar but want a steel bullbar
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If it was easy to do I would remove my BB when not going somewhere I may need it, but with the lights attached (and soon to be arials) this would be a pain in the rear end (front end actually :D).
I do not drive near school zones when I can avoid it, I have seen way too many kids running out between cars and not looking.
Exactly the same boat i used to drive between Sydney and Forbes every Friday arvo at night so the bullbar was great for the roos but as above if there was a mounting system that i could keep the bumper bar and have the front protection easily fitted and removed i would go for it
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Two points
I've had a bull bar on all 4 4wds I've owned. Twice I've been able to continue my trip after impact damage that without the bulbar, would have required a flat-top or tow. And I'll tell you a flat-top from Kalumbaru to Kunanurra, then somehow home to Darwin, wouldn't have been cheap.
Point two: if we're going to judge people who put a bull bar on when WE deem it unnecessary, we should be prepared to be judged on our own wants and desires.
Sums it up nicely I recon, top reply!!
Cheers,
Disco teddy.
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In our 4WD club we drive a lot of tracks may get driven only once every 2 to 3 yrs -- being in the tropics where at times the spear grass, scrubs and small trees can make a track disappear, yes our front bars, bash plates do take a hammering. Without our bars we simply couldn't drive these tracks -- plus I wouldn't have anywhere to mount my winch. :)
:cheers:
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Well I fall into the new 4x4 owner category and have just posted a thread about all the extras I have added and a bull bar and winch are among them.
If you looked at my car, you would think that I too am a "Bitumen Cowboy" because the car is nice and shiny, but it does have a couple of bush pin stripes, although they are fairly light.
The reason for fitting one is because our new Dmax will be used as a tourer in the very near future. Hopefully I won't need to do a lot of night travel, but I would still prefer to have it just in case.
The down side of having the bar and winch fitted, meant I also had to do a suspension upgrade, but I am guessing I would have had to get that done eventually anyway, even without the bar.
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we have an alloy bar so it looks the part but it ain't the part if you know what I mean
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Must have Bullbar for sure! Just this evening before I left work, I witnessed a mum picking her child up from the dance class opposite work reversing her Prado into a sign post out the front. Didn't even phase her as she broke off the post! :laugh:
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Must have Bullbar for sure! Just this evening before I left work, I witnessed a mum picking her child up from the dance class opposite work reversing her Prado into a sign post out the front. Didn't even phase her as she broke off the post! :laugh:
Forgive me if I read this wrong, but you said she was REVERSING, so I am a tad confused how a bull bar would help. Or is that your whole point? ;D
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Interesting, this would imply every vehicle on the road in this area should be fitted with a bar.
So far most people have stated the very valid safety aspect, which as I said in the OP I am not disputing, but 4wd's are not the only style of vehicle to travel the roads in these high risk areas or times of day. So why do so few passenger vehicles get bars fitted in comparison? Are the drivers/owners of these vehicles less safety conscious than 4wd owners?
^^^^
This
Go to any largish country town and you might find a few cars with bullbars but many/most do not. When I was young we lived in the bush but never had bullbars on our cars. Didn't stop us driving when we wanted. I recall many roos and cows on the road but can't recall ever hitting one. Maybe we were lucky.
I'm now a city-slicker that gets out in the bush now and then and I have a bullbar on my current 4wd (came with one). Great for putting a rod-holder on for fishing and for protecting the front when occasionally bumping things in the scrub but I'm not sure I'll get one on any new 4wd. For a start the steel ones weigh a bloody ton ... which comes straight out of your GVM. But if you want a winch or spotties they are almost a necessity (but cue the debate about needing those things...).
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One other thing to consider for town users - cars are designed to minimise damage to pedestrians, cyclists who inadvertently decide to become a hood ornament. Bull bar - no chance. If the bull bar is for decoration and not going to be used in the bush - then any advantage given to saving life's in an accident is worthwhile.
If roos are most likely accident - get a bar.
Driving round town - no bar.
Living in far north Queensland and traveling the roads that I do I will not have a 4x4 without a decent bullbar, thats correct a BULLBAR. Most bars sold today are showpony bars, they may stop damage from a small roo but they will not proctect you much from a BULL. But they may still save your 4x4 enough to be able to keep on driving.
I was put in an unfortunate position two years ago when a bloke that I worked with on the mine site happened to walk from behind a bus and waltz straight out on the road in front of me, he had just came of a twelve hour night shift and had been asleep on the bus when his driver woke him up at his stop. Still half asleep he got of the bus and just walked across the road.
I did see him untill he had cleared the by now turning out busses rear end and was in the middle of the left lane in dirrect line with my bull bar.
As he went under my field of vision, I was waiting for a bump from his body been either run over with my wheels or at least a bump from his body hitting the underside of my Nissan. It did not come, the bull bar saved his life , He may not even been aware of how he reacted at the time but as he got hit and started to fall , he wrapped his arm around the tubing of the bullbar and hung on until I came to a fullstop. Burised and blue for a few days, yes he was, but he was alive. Without the bullbar been upfront he would have went under the Nissan and came out the rear a hell of a lot worse for wear.
Bullbars are a hell of a lot more than looks.
Cheers duggie
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If you're worried about spendin 2k on a bullbar remember, 1 decent animal strike and you'll be up for a lot more than that. Also, you usually take into account any accessories that are or may be fitted before getting the right spring rate with your suspension lift. Probably best to get the bullbar first. If it only saves you once a year, its a good year.
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Forgive me if I read this wrong, but you said she was REVERSING, so I am a tad confused how a bull bar would help. Or is that your whole point? ;D
I think it was to save him if she decided to revers into him as she did the post - quite funny really.
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As he went under my field of vision, I was waiting for a bump from his body been either run over with my wheels or at least a bump from his body hitting the underside of my Nissan. It did not come, the bull bar saved his life , He may not even been aware of how he reacted at the time but as he got hit and started to fall , he wrapped his arm around the tubing of the bullbar and hung on until I came to a fullstop. Burised and blue for a few days, yes he was, but he was alive. Without the bullbar been upfront he would have went under the Nissan and came out the rear a hell of a lot worse for wear.
Sometimes wearing a seatbelt will hold you in the car rather than being thrown clear - goes to show if your number is up (or not) your number is up (or not). I would still wear a seatbelt and take the risk on being 'the rule' rather than 'the exception'.
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Sometimes wearing a seatbelt will hold you in the car rather than being thrown clear - goes to show if your number is up (or not) your number is up (or not). I would still wear a seatbelt and take the risk on being 'the rule' rather than 'the exception'.
It was a bit hard for the guy to wear a seat belt, as stated in my story he was on foot, he walked out on the road in front of me ??? ??? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
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Organised to buy one Saturday. A bit of reading and I come to realize I can't get it now as I have airbags in the car and need a compatible bullbar, and they are only $1000 dearer then this non compatible bar :( Soooo disappointed!!!
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Had mine fitted today and it looks great, certainly adds a bit of length to the car.
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We have bullbars on both of our 4wds as we pass roo's nearly every single day to work and back home. This morning we had about 50 of them in the front paddock! On occasion we get deer and loose cows and sheep.
On a similar note (driving light debate) we have good lights. Both vehicles have Phillps 100+ globes, the missus a pair of Blitz 240's and I've recently put some HID's in my old no-name driving lights.
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It was a bit hard for the guy to wear a seat belt, as stated in my story he was on foot, he walked out on the road in front of me ??? ??? ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Duggie, PeaBraiinPete was making an analogy with the exceptions which were used to justify not wearing seatbelts. He was saying that your experience would appear to be the exception in terms of pedestrian interaction with bull bars.
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If I might define 'necessity' from the perspective of a city highway driver (me) who is kitting out his beast for the big trip.
Can I do the lap safely without a bull bar... IMO 'yes', on the basis that I intend driving only in daylight hours and at a cruising speed, rather than on the limit all the time.
However,I may fit on alloy one for better approach angles and a bit more security anyway.
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Plenty of vehicles do big country miles without bullbars. Just for the extra confidence if you don't want a steel bar, which I can understand then look at on of the smart bars before an alloy bar. Just my thought.
http://www.smartbar.com.au/ (http://www.smartbar.com.au/)
We have them on the work vehicles and they seem okay.
Just looked, don't worry about the smart bars as they don't seem to have one for the subarus
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Thanks B&B, the shortness of my response did make it a little cryptic.
Thanks Duggie, good story. Is your sleepy mate who attached himself to your bullbar still a friend?
I bet you were relieved when your friend was OK.
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It is interesting the number who "see" Roos regularly vs the ones who actually hit them. One my way to work I regularly see Roos but have never hit one. 100's or 100's of cars travel the same roads every day and also only on the odd occasion does someone clean one up. I'd say odds are in favour of NOT hitting one in many circumstances.
Many bars also reduce the impact absorption of vehicles, thereby increasing the injury risk to occupants and/or the occupants of the other vehicle.
No doubt some locations are more prone to striking Roos and bars are needed
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.......... I'd say odds are in favour of NOT hitting one in many circumstances.........
Possibly, but when your number is up.......
We all make an assessment of the risks based on our experiences and perceptions. Don't assume that things will always happen the way you expect. It's when the unforeseen happens that you can get caught out......
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It is interesting the number who "see" Roos regularly vs the ones who actually hit them. One my way to work I regularly see Roos but have never hit one. 100's or 100's of cars travel the same roads every day and also only on the odd occasion does someone clean one up. I'd say odds are in favour of NOT hitting one in many circumstances.
Many bars also reduce the impact absorption of vehicles, thereby increasing the injury risk to occupants and/or the occupants of the other vehicle.
No doubt some locations are more prone to striking Roos and bars are needed
Jonesy, what about wearing seatbelts? Applying this logic would suggest we don't need to wear them either. Fair enough vehicles come standard with them and its law to wear them at all times, just that the theory is the same. The comment about "when your number is up..." is spot on: if you regularly or intend to drive in an environment where wild life is an issue then the ramifications of that one off incident probably outweigh any costs involved in fitting protective gear. My OP was not really questioning the merits of bar fitment under those circumstances, more asking about the plethora of shopping trolley/people mover 4wd's that still have them fitted. For 95% of suburban duties they seem an absolute must for so many, yet people are always looking for bargains and tight on $ when it comes to other accessories that would or could be so much more beneficial for the majority of their motoring time.
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It is interesting the number who "see" Roos regularly vs the ones who actually hit them. One my way to work I regularly see Roos but have never hit one. 100's or 100's of cars travel the same roads every day and also only on the odd occasion does someone clean one up. I'd say odds are in favour of NOT hitting one in many circumstances.
A good point. For all the ones we see we've only hit one but had many near misses where they've jumped out seemingly nowhere (heads down feeding on the long grass) and appear right in front of the vehicle. Seen many dead ones that neighbours have hit. Roos are very unpredictable with no road sense and many times we've sat behind some as they jump from one side to the other and back again! Our 5km road home is a winding single vehicle wide dirt track, long grass and trees both sides. No doubt I'll go pass a few this morning on the way to work.
Mark.
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A good point............. Roos are very unpredictable........
Sheep are smarter........
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Sheep are smarter........
Kiwi in disguise ;D
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I had never hit any either until we lived up here. We hit nothing going across aus twice on our way here but now I drive these roads every two week. It could be to Cape Leveque or to Halls Creek or up the Gibb. I must say I've only got two up here but it's the cows that worry us as even i n the day they can really ruin your day. They have a habit of just blending in and then walking out in font of you. That's why you'll see us that live up here slow right down even when the cow is looking the other way. As for the Roos, the worst I'v seen was heading from Catherine to Dailywaters, we hit three on the way and missed three.
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Are 4wd's necessary?
Are $30,000,000 houses necessary?
Are $60,000 campertrailers necessary??
Are clothes necessary?
Dunny paper?
What did people do before them?
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timely thread..........i guess you will need to list whats most important to fit first
agree front bars are handy to fit things to......however
i am about to remove front bar and go back to a standard bumper, i just need to work out where to mount my UHF aerial...i have decided to ditch the driving lights so no problem there
Lol. I very nearly collected a big Grey on the M1 at the Labrador exit one morning just on dawn. I was towing my boat with a Subaru Forester so was unable to much more then brake hard and jink slightly. Made the trailer brakes earn their keep.
As said by most reply's, if needs dictate then go for it. If not then why bother.
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I'm sure that there are lots of 4x4s that don't need them but for me they are an essential piece of safety equipment. In the last months I have hit 2 Roos and a pig. Since I have fitted hid spotties the amount of animals I hit has reduced. Bar important to mount those lights.
That said I prefer the look of the vehicle with the bar...
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If you plan on driving on country roads, especially scrubby ones, at night time you're asking for trouble not having one IMO.
I live next door to a nature reserve that a fairly busy rural road goes through. The area also has poor mobile coverage so getting help can be an issue. Over the years I couldn't count the number of people that I've either pulled over to help or have had walk to the house asking if we could call them a tow truck because they've hit a roo and can't keep going. It would be at least 1 every couple of months, which is really 1/1000's that go through there so it isn't a huge problem, but I wouldn't want to risk the repair costs if fitting a bar was practical.
Of course it is a larger portion of sedan drivers that are wrecked by it, but there are often bullbarless 4WD's as well with the front ends caved in.
In 20 years I've only ever seen one 4wd with a bullbar done. One of the biggest Eastern Grey's I've seen was pretty much in the passenger seat of the ute. The roo wasn't what stopped him though, the trees did when he ran off the road. The driver was mostly ok, no permanent damage. Bullbar or no bullbar wouldn't have changed anything in that situation.
That said I currently drive a commodore sedan with no protection. A bar would be close to being more expensive than the car and wouldn't raise the resale value.
Edit:
Depending on your insurance hitting one roo would be the cost of getting a bar.
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I like having a bullbar. It's a good place to sit when you're working in the engine bay of a lifted Patrol.
Also, if I didn't have one, my car would look even more second-hand than it does ;D
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6025/5989349784_18075105c1_z.jpg)
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6135/5989349780_df3b53e5a7_z.jpg)
It protected my winch during one fairly momentous trip, although some of the peripheral fittings didn't live to fight another day...
(http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6004/5989349772_6aea777e96_z.jpg)
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Whether or not they are necessary is a risk management question.
Advantages of a roobar
Protect the front of the vehicle from small to medium animal strikes allowing the vehicle to continue.
Protect the bumper from being scratched.
Increase approach angles.
Easy fitment of an electric winch.
Disadvantages of a roobar
Increase weight over front suspension.
Decreased survivability of the occupants of the vehicle fitted with the roobar (reduced effectiveness of crumple zones).
Decreased survivability of the occupants of the vehicle collided with.
Decreased survivability of pedestrians/cyclists.
Cost.
So the decision to fit really needs to be made on a risk basis. Do the advantages of the roobar outweigh the disadvantages? That can really only be answered by the operator of the vehicle.
For me the disadvantage outweigh the advantages so I don't fit one. I imagine if you live in a place like Rockhampton where animal strikes are a constant reality the advantages may well outweigh the disadvantages.
my 2c
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Some other advantages:
Allows you to choose a more 'adventurous' line where running out of traction may be an issue, as risk of damage to the vehicle is reduced (by that I mean you can take a few chances with trees, banks and rocks that may be present in your alternative line.
Allows you to park up against a tree or bank when using the winch to recover other vehicles.
Provides a high lift jacking point (if so designed).
Less chance of damage - or cessation of forward progress - when crossing deep water.
Really, if you truly use your 4WD to the limits of its design specification, a bullbar isn't a 'nice to have' - it's a necessity.
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In 1990, I lived 420 k's north of Kalgoorlie, my then HJ75 troopy had no extras at all, just window tint.
On the drive from Sandstone toward Mount Magnet I hit a Roo on the far right side of the standard bar, it swung back and shredded the tyre and we than nearly tipped over. Lucky only doing about 60 at the time, but was traveling alone on a road with a car a week at the time.
I wasn't to please about that as the food we had was in an esky which would have upended everywhere, so a steel bar went on ASAP.
Not sure how many I have hit, I stop when I can to check on them, but most keep hoping away.
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I'd say odds are in favour of NOT hitting one in many circumstances........
Yeah, but it only takes one. And the odds of winning Lotto are not in my favour either but i keep buying tickets..... ;D
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Nearly took out a fat Wallaby this morning on the road into Sugarloaf Reservoir. In reality it probably would have gone under the Prado but I was glad I had my ARB frontal impact collision avoidance and minimisation device fitted ;D
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Nearly took out a fat Wallaby this morning on the road into Sugarloaf Reservoir. In reality it probably would have gone under the Prado but I was glad I had my ARB frontal impact collision avoidance and minimisation device fitted ;D
;D ;D :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
Cheers
Evo
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I doubt I could safely drive to Balgo Hills from here, which is only 44 km's, without the assurance of vehicular protective equipment. I know they are called bull bars, but I am more concerned with horses and camels that frequently get on the road, and some of the bull cars get indignantly territorial when on the road.
I know you have qualified that most people do not spend much time in the bush, I am an enigma to that comment, as I do no city driving at all, never have. The fact that many 4wds have bull bars attached is a promotional thing I assume, as I have seen some of the newer bull bars impacted out this way, and they simple snapped or were bent back into the radiator. Pretty effective decoration.
Regards
Tjupurula
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I hit (got hit) by a deer on Saturday in the middle of the day. :'(
I was driving the Magna not the Patrol so no bull bar. It hit the front mud guard in the side so i doubt the bull bar would have helped in this case.
It's getting dangerous out there!!!
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I have an alloy TJM bar on the Cherokee - not really a 'bull bar' as it does not protect the radiator, it merely replaces the original (plastic) front bumper. I had it fitted because:
- It provides additional protection against frontal impacts
- It provides a cradle to hold the winch
- It gave me two substantial eyes for recovery (even though TJM don't rate them, they are as solid as anything you can find)
- It provides a mounting for the spots, the HF and UHF aerials, and the sand flag, and
- I got it at discount because my wife worked for a TJM store!
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The tree hit on the LHS (first photo) but the damage on the right from the transfer of the force looks just as bad. There was no damage to the frame or panels from the doors back. Everything still opened and closed OK but the damage bill was 18k. I few more $ and they may have written it off. I have wondered if a steel bar would have done a better job? Was told the alloy bar took a lot of the force and crumbled as per design. Engine was still running ok.
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y458/darice111/th_IMG_0516_zpsf70380c1.jpg)(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y458/darice111/th_IMG_0517_zps700c8cf1.jpg)
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I chose not to fit one one my latest prado after living ten years in CQ with at least a nudge bar or alloy bullbar fitted, I feel I can get away with out one down in SEQ.
We still travel outback and at night, I just travel a bit slower at the dangerous times, particularly dusk and dawn. My biggest concern has always been horses and cattle more so than roos and even the best bars won't help with those buggers!
We even drove across the Barkley at night in September last year but just had dinner at the Threeways and left there about 730pm so it was full dark as I believe you can see better then than dusk.
My point being that if you are prepared to drive a bit slower and have some good lights (restricted without the bar to mount) you can do without.
Oh and fuel economy is much better too
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I have to admit that my recent (and unwanted) travels to Broome, Perth and Adelaide, I sa quite a few really flash looking 4wd's, and I was wondering why they had them. It was obvious to me, somehiow, that the vehicles were probably not going to be used for too much travel in real country (showing my bias there), so I reckon it was basically bull bars for good looks.
Can anyone tell me why they call them bull bars, as I have hit many kangaroos (and taken them home), a couple of cows, thankfully travelling slowly, and have rammed some camels to get them off the track, but I have rarely ever hit an actual big bull. The size of the scrubbers (bulls from the scrub) around here, if you hit one, no matter what bull bar you had, your vehicle would be a write off.
Regards
Tjupurula
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The tree hit on the LHS (first photo) but the damage on the right from the transfer of the force looks just as bad. There was no damage to the frame or panels from the doors back. Everything still opened and closed OK but the damage bill was 18k. I few more $ and they may have written it off. I have wondered if a steel bar would have done a better job? Was told the alloy bar took a lot of the force and crumbled as per design. Engine was still running ok.
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y458/darice111/th_IMG_0516_zpsf70380c1.jpg)(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y458/darice111/th_IMG_0517_zps700c8cf1.jpg)
There is a WHOLE LOT MORE to a bulbar design than material choice. A steel bar may have transferred more force to the chassis/vehicle resulting in more damage to it .. and you.
Or, with the right 'crush cans' (as ARB, but not too many others, designs and installs) there may have in fact been less visible and actual damage from the use of a steel bar.. or
...or... or!
Hope this helps
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I've hit about 9 or 10 roos with my 07 SR Hilux in 6 yrs. I fitted a Toyota Steel Bullbar with Toyota Side Rails when I bought the ute in June 07, and none of the roos did any significant damage to the bar or ute.
At least 6 of the roos I would have hit at 100 - 110 km/hr on the front left corner or centre of the bar. Knowing I could keep driving after hitting a roo is great peace of mind, especially when I hit 2 in the same trip between Renmark & Menindee going through Dangalli Convervation Park at 5:00am one day.
Having said that, the new SR5 that I have just purchased, has a genuine Toyota Alloy Bull Bar, but it doesn't look very strong. It sits too close to the panels and grille, there isn't enough room for my spotlights to be protected, without them hanging out the front of the bar.
I think after the 1st roo I hit, I will be using the insurance money to change back to a stronger steel bar with side rails. The Alloy Bar was about the same price as the Steel bar with side rails.
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I've hit about 9 or 10 roos with my 07 SR Hilux in 6 yrs. I fitted a Toyota Steel Bullbar with Toyota Side Rails when I bought the ute in June 07, and none of the roos did any significant damage to the bar or ute.
At least 6 of the roos I would have hit at 100 - 110 km/hr on the front left corner or centre of the bar. Knowing I could keep driving after hitting a roo is great peace of mind, especially when I hit 2 in the same trip between Renmark & Menindee going through Dangalli Convervation Park at 5:00am one day.
Having said that, the new SR5 that I have just purchased, has a genuine Toyota Alloy Bull Bar, but it doesn't look very strong. It sits too close to the panels and grille, there isn't enough room for my spotlights to be protected, without them hanging out the front of the bar.
I think after the 1st roo I hit, I will be using the insurance money to change back to a stronger steel bar with side rails. The Alloy Bar was about the same price as the Steel bar with side rails.
Hi Pogasauras
Given this is your first post, I will say welcome to MySwag, hope you enjoy your time on this great site.
Tjupurula
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Whether or not they are necessary is a risk management question.
Advantages of a roobar
Protect the front of the vehicle from small to medium animal strikes allowing the vehicle to continue.
Protect the bumper from being scratched.
Increase approach angles.
Easy fitment of an electric winch.
Disadvantages of a roobar
Increase weight over front suspension.
Smart bars are lighter
Decreased survivability of the occupants of the vehicle fitted with the roobar (reduced effectiveness of crumple zones).
Smart bars do not alter the crumple zones effectiveness
Decreased survivability of the occupants of the vehicle collided with.
As above and have been proven to offer safer accident protection
Decreased survivability of pedestrians/cyclists.
Again, proven to reduce pedestrian impact damage. No sharp edges or glass or malleable metal to hurt
Cost.
Got my smart bar fitted for the same cost as an ARB sahara bar
So the decision to fit really needs to be made on a risk basis. Do the advantages of the roobar outweigh the disadvantages? That can really only be answered by the operator of the vehicle.
For me the disadvantage outweigh the advantages so I don't fit one. I imagine if you live in a place like Rockhampton where animal strikes are a constant reality the advantages may well outweigh the disadvantages.
my 2c
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Brian have nothing against smart bars and have eard good thing re roo strikes etc. But there is some marketing BS around them as well. They do add weight to the front, maybe not as much as a steel bar but its still forward weight. They do affect the crumple zone, even a nudge bar has effect on the crumple zone. And they don't necessarily improve the impact for a pedestrian as they will still "bend a person in half" just they will give.
I am also waiting to see one that has spent the last 15-20years outside and how the UV has treated it. I am sure it's UV cured plastic but my experience virtually no lasting can sustain long term UV exposure.
Also be interesting to see if they bring out one for the 200. The 200 has a dirty big alloy beam that runs across in front of th chassis rails on crush cans. ARB remove this and other bits which would probaly drop 20 kg but I could see a plastic bar loosing this. Then again you would think as the 200 is now 6 yrs old they would have designed one by now?
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Are 4wd's necessary?
Are $30,000,000 houses necessary?
Are $60,000 campertrailers necessary??
Are clothes necessary?
Dunny paper?
What did people do before them?
I wear clothes and use dunny paper, but I do not have a house, car or CT. Yes I did have a car, but sold it t cover some medical expenses. Incidentally, prior to toilet paper, it was usually a quick wipe over with some dirt, and a wash down from (not in) a rockhole when the chance came about. Yes, I have been there and done that......ooohhh, how disgusting......WHO CARES.
Tjupurula
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Can anyone tell me why they call them bull bars, as I have hit many kangaroos (and taken them home), a couple of cows, thankfully travelling slowly, and have rammed some camels to get them off the track, but I have rarely ever hit an actual big bull. The size of the scrubbers (bulls from the scrub) around here, if you hit one, no matter what bull bar you had, your vehicle would be a write off.
Probably a carry-over from the railway version, known as a "cow catcher" :)
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-0HAT2TWVDEI/TZ3L9GboffI/AAAAAAAAAEA/0cwT6YVvepk/s640/cowcatcher2.jpg)
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Like all accessories no they aren't necessary but can be a valuable asset. Plenty of people take their stock vehicles out 4wding and touring without any problems.
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Like all accessories no they aren't necessary but can be a valuable asset. Plenty of people take their stock vehicles out 4wding and touring without any problems.
I'm sure there luck will run out one day. I hit an Emu near Cameron's Corner on a clear July day. Glad it bounced off the bullbar and I was able to make the trip without any problems. It ran straight out of the low lying scrub and I had no chance in avoiding it.
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I'm sure there luck will run out one day. I hit an Emu near Cameron's Corner on a clear July day. Glad it bounced off the bullbar and I was able to make the trip without any problems. It ran straight out of the low lying scrub and I had no chance in avoiding it.
Hi GU Rich
If you ever happen to hit another one, and it doesn't survive, any chance you could freeze it and freight it to me...... 8) 8) 8)
Tjupurula
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Is a bullbar necessary to drive around town? Probably not
Can someone have a bull bar just because they have the money and like the look? Probably
Is a 200series Landcruiser necessary to tow a camper trailer???? Probably not!
Can someone have a 200 series Landcruiser to tow their camer trailer? Probably
Do I care what either of the above choose to buy/use? NO
sometimes people worry too much about what everyone else is doing when they should just be enjoying their own life.
But usually it is to justify their own decisions in life.
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Hi GU Rich
If you ever happen to hit another one, and it doesn't survive, any chance you could freeze it and freight it to me...... 8) 8) 8)
Tjupurula
No worries mate 8)
I actually knocked over our coat of arms on that trip!
Cheers
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Is a 200series Landcruiser necessary to tow a camper trailer???? Probably not!
Can someone have a 200 series Landcruiser to tow their camer trailer? Probably
Years ago I copped a serve from my brother and sister-in-law, whom I was visiting in Melbourne, for driving a 4wd (patrol) because they were too big and blocked the view of car driver's behind. Then as we left the pub to go home they walked up to their 2wd Ford Territory! When I told them that they were a bit rich having a go at me & my 4wd, their answer was "it's only 2wd"! WTF!!! >:D
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I feel better now - I have the big bad Patrol striking fear into the hearts of modest motorists everywhere, but it is nicely offset by the 2wd Territory that it shares the driveway with :angel:
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No worries mate 8)
I actually knocked over our coat of arms on that trip!
Cheers
Okay, you have made me jealous. I have not eaten emu for about 4 years, but we will be fixing that before the end of the year.
Tjupurula