"Anyway, this means that 4X4 Everests are not, according to the ADRs, an offroad vehicle."
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/voices/why-the-ford-everest-is-not-classfied-as-an-mc-offroader/
KB
But.. but it must be.. it won 4wd of the year.. like the X5 did..
Means any suspension lift or change of tyres will probably by illegal.
KB
Quote from: KingBillyMeans any suspension lift or change of tyres will probably by illegal.
"... and for a vehicle meant for 4×4 use I find this incredulous.. If I had been advised of this prior to purchasing the vehicle I would have seriously questioned the Ford as a purchase and looked at alternatives.
Stories of Adblue incorrectly reporting empty online (thankfully my vehicle hasn't had this) and rear engine seal failures (shared with Ranger) don't help when planning to venture off the beaten track.."
'However, we asked Ford and were told the suspension tune is specific to the 20-inch rims, and that is why the placard is unique.'
doesn't sound like a real good "offroader" to me..
What ever happened about the rangers going up in flames?
Quote from: achjimmy on October 17, 2016, 01:23:26 PM
What ever happened about the rangers going up in flames?
Hot topic
b b b b b but it is marketed by Ford as being a Prado competitor...
reminds me of the Exploder - er - Explorer...
I was talking to 2 elec salesmen who drove one from Darwin to Kununurra.
Absolutely hilarious the way they told the story, Radio failed, rear door wouldn't seal so set off alarm beeper, side mirrors fell off, suspension broke, A/C broke, the list goes on.
Their resilience has to be admired as is their tale of the trip. All those kms is a beeping, hot, difficult to drive (suspension) and back again.
Had just about everyone in the pub in tears.
Cheers
But that's all bitumen, isn't it ???
Sure is. Though you wouldn't go all that way without fishing. Not to mention stopping at a few of the larger businesses along the way.
Quote from: KingBilly on October 17, 2016, 01:08:32 PM
"Anyway, this means that 4X4 Everests are not, according to the ADRs, an offroad vehicle."
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/voices/why-the-ford-everest-is-not-classfied-as-an-mc-offroader/
KB
Have you sent this to an org like 4x4 Aust mag?
Might get some attention and action from Ford that way.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: BrindleHoundsMight get some attention and action from Ford that way.
What action exactly do you want from Ford on a their all plastic family car?
Quote from: BrindleHounds on October 19, 2016, 09:01:02 PM
Have you sent this to an org like 4x4 Aust mag?
Might get some attention and action from Ford that way.
Why? I don't own one, nor ever would. They are a Ford ;D
KB
Part Two
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/the-mc-watch-offroad-classified-passenger-vehicles-in-australia/
KB
WOW, I'm looking for a new 4X4, I will not be getting a Ford!
Quote from: Jayson on October 20, 2016, 07:21:02 PM
WOW, I'm looking for a new 4X4, I will not be getting a Ford!
Why not ?? I'm not a Ford man, but they are no different to most of the others in that catagory. Low range, diff lock, and pointed at some hardish stuff offroad, they will still go most places the "old" style 4wds would.
Because if a Ford is not classify as a MC, then the off-roading modification rules does not apply (lift, wider tyres, ect) But you are correct, stock standard it will go where most 4x4 will do.
So depend on what you want if it will suit you or not.
Quote from: PWE on October 20, 2016, 07:48:16 PM
Because if a Ford is not classify as a MC, then the off-roading modification rules does not apply (lift, wider tyres, ect) But you are correct, stock standard it will go where most 4x4 will do.
So depend on what you want if it will suit you or not.
Maybe - maybe not ???
It's an interesting list,
Isuzu spent the money to make MU-X 2WD MA classification, and the 4WD MC classification, so the 4WD MU-X can be modified.
For those not aware, MC classification in Vic, not sure about other states, allows for the 50mm oversize tyres and 50mm lift. MA only allows 15mm larger tyres, and the lift is a grey area. Can't speak for other states.
On an amusing note, Mazda have made the new CX-9 MC classification. ???
It must be an error from Mazda?
I have never been inside a CX-9, so no idea how it drives or handles.
Quote from: PWE on October 21, 2016, 11:39:16 AM
It must be an error from Mazda?
I have never been inside a CX-9, so no idea how it drives or handles.
I struck one heading At Orchid Beach. It had come off Orchid Beach and was heading South. :)
Obviously Ford only want to sell passenger cars.
Australians have been renowned for buying vehicles and multi purposing them.
Have done so since before GM purchased HOLDEN Motor Body works.
They obviously haven't learnt that the customer dictates the market.
If a customer doesn't see what he wants, he usually moves on and spends his money elsewhere.
Quote from: KingBilly on October 20, 2016, 06:37:19 PM
Part Two
https://practicalmotoring.com.au/car-advice/the-mc-watch-offroad-classified-passenger-vehicles-in-australia/
KB
Had a read of those 2 articles & now I'm really confused - which isn't hard :D
Now, I'm very happy with our Forester (although, if I was getting it now, I'd go for the 3l Outback) & it does everything we need it to do, but I'll be the first to admit that it's not a "real" 4x4, even though it's plated as category MC.
What I don't get from the article (extract from VSB14):
4.2.4 Overall Nominal Diameter The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to a passenger car or passenger car derivative must not be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model. The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:
4WD passenger vehicles specifically designed for off-road use (typically MC ADR category).
All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles including those AWD vehicles that may be certified as MC ADR category, (also commonly known as soft roaders) are not included in this category;
So what does this paragraph actually mean ??? Does it apply or not ???
If you are MA Passenger vehicle
4.2.4 Overall Nominal Diameter The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to a passenger car or passenger car derivative must not be more than 15mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that model. The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:
4WD passenger vehicles specifically designed for off-road use (typically MC ADR category). All wheel drive (AWD) vehicles including those AWD vehicles that may be certified as MC ADR category, (also commonly known as soft roaders) are not included in this category;
[ Source: Section LS, Tyres, Rims, Suspension and Steering, VSB 14, NCOP Version 2.1 Nov 2015 ]
If you are MC off road passenger vehicle
The overall diameter of any tyre fitted to:
a 4WD passenger vehicle specifically designed for off-road use (MC ADR category other than a 'soft roader');
a 4WD goods vehicle and its 2WD equivalent if the chassis and running gear are essentially the same as the 4WD version (N ADR category); or
medium weight goods vehicle (NA2, NB ADR category);
must not be more than 50mm larger or 26mm smaller than that of any tyre designated by the vehicle manufacturer for that vehicle. Tyre diameters of a vehicle fitted with Electronic Stability Control (ESC) may be modified without certification provided it is not combined with any other lift (i.e tyre and suspension, tyre and body block, etc).
[ Source: Department of Transport and Main Roads, G19.6 released March 2014, updated Feb 2016 ]
Do the rules mention a lift for MA vehicles ?
As most or all new 4wds have ESC, even a MC vehicle can't have a tyre size increase AND a lift as well.
But we know most don't follow these rules, so what's the difference between bigger tyres for a MA or bigger tyres AND a lift for MC vehicles ?
Quote from: gronk on October 22, 2016, 12:24:47 PMAs most or all new 4wds have ESC, even a MC vehicle can't have a tyre size increase AND a lift as well
Incorrect, in Qld at least
KB
VSB14
Quote from: tk421 on October 22, 2016, 08:30:33 PM
VSB14
Yep, and show us where you can (legally ) do a suspension lift as well as a tyre increase ??
Quote from: gronk on October 22, 2016, 08:34:37 PM
Yep, and show us where you can (legally ) do a suspension lift as well as a tyre increase ??
VSB14. Section 4.11
https://infrastructure.gov.au/roads/vehicle_regulation/bulletin/pdf/NCOP11_Section_LS_Tyres_Suspension_Steering_Nov_2015_v4.pdf
Quote from: gronk on October 22, 2016, 08:34:37 PM
Yep, and show us where you can (legally ) do a suspension lift as well as a tyre increase ??
Still only to 50mm... So a tyre increase of 25mm and a susp lift of 25mm......may as well save some bucks and only do a tyre increase of 50mm ??
Quote from: gronk on October 22, 2016, 09:55:29 PM
Still only to 50mm... So a tyre increase of 25mm and a susp lift of 25mm......may as well save some bucks and only do a tyre increase of 50mm ??
The problem there is on a lot of new cars 1) you won't fit bigger Tyre's without lift
And 2) there is still laws on just the maximum Tyre's size you can fit. Which I think is 30mm??? Which only means you can generally only go to the next size up.
To get a 50mm lift from just Tyre's you need to for Tyre's that are 100mm bigger in diameter.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
More the point is a lot of new 4wds have bigger tyres and more than 50mm lift and are obviously illegal, but doesn't seem to worry the owners, so worrying about a technicality like MA compared to MC rating isn't going to bother those same people who want to modify.
I only answered the question you asked.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: gronk on October 23, 2016, 09:03:00 AM
More the point is a lot of new 4wds have bigger tyres and more than 50mm lift and are obviously illegal, but doesn't seem to worry the owners, so worrying about a technicality like MA compared to MC rating isn't going to bother those same people who want to modify.
Only illegal if you don't have it engineered and re-certified. Granted many won't bother.
Quote from: tk421 on October 23, 2016, 04:26:18 PM
Only illegal if you don't have it engineered and re-certified. Granted many won't bother.
On a newer 4wd with ESC, I don't believe you could have it engineered to have more than the allowed lift ?
Quote from: gronk on October 23, 2016, 05:24:42 PM
On a newer 4wd with ESC, I don't believe you could have it engineered to have more than the allowed lift ?
Post on this or a similar forum related to this. Was an older vehicle without ESC.
Vehicle Engineered, owner/operator charged by Mansfield Police for operating a vehicle that didn't comply.
Nissan Patrol with 4" lift and oversize tyres, not sure what else.
Apparently the female Magistrate wouldn't accept the Engineers Certificate allowed the vehicle to be Registered.
Not sure what else became a problem for the Owner.
Might be someone else with better/more precise memory can help?
Getting closer and closer to time when you can't Register it with Non-OME or Manufacturer approved Accessories.
They've been working towards this for years, chipping away a bit at a time.
With ALL the Vehicle Manufacturing off shore, they (Government at any level) will just declare something a prohibited import.
So much for diversity and Australian Inventiveness.
Quote from: Cruiser 105Tvan on October 23, 2016, 05:55:10 PM
Post on this or a similar forum related to this. Was an older vehicle without ESC.
Vehicle Engineered, owner/operator charged by Mansfield Police for operating a vehicle that didn't comply.
Nissan Patrol with 4" lift and oversize tyres, not sure what else.
Apparently the female Magistrate wouldn't accept the Engineers Certificate allowed the vehicle to be Registered.
Not sure what else became a problem for the Owner.
Might be someone else with better/more precise memory can help?
Getting closer and closer to time when you can't Register it with Non-OME or Manufacturer approved Accessories.
They've been working towards this for years, chipping away a bit at a time.
With ALL the Vehicle Manufacturing off shore, they (Government at any level) will just declare something a prohibited import.
So much for diversity and Australian Inventiveness.
The lift and tyres where not certified at the time of the offence and thus why he failed at Court. Speak to engineer before doing your lift or whatever and do as they say.
Quote from: Cruiser 105Tvan on October 23, 2016, 05:55:10 PM
.....
Getting closer and closer to time when you can't Register it with Non-OME or Manufacturer approved Accessories.
.....
OME will love that.... :P
Quote from: GeoffA on October 23, 2016, 06:02:38 PM
OME will love that.... :P
Just sayin' if it's not in the Manufacturers approved list of Accessories, they'll forbid it being fitted.
I wasn't referring to EMU's
They've already done it with HID Headlights.
Joe Public will Love that, and he'll be confused as to how they did it.
Stroke of the pen'll fix anything, just ask a Politician.
the simple fact is nobody would buy one to go off road!!
Quote from: Bird on October 23, 2016, 06:36:14 PM
the simple fact is nobody would buy one to go off road!!
What....an Everest ?? Saw one this arvo with BIG tyres on what looked like original rims....looked fairly tough, and why wouldn't it go offroad ?? Apart from the legalities of bigger tyres and lift, it would go the same places as any of the other mid size 4wds....including dual cab utes !
Quote from: gronkand why wouldn't it go offroad ??
theres about 500 better options to start with... most of it is plastic and would fall apart as it isn't designed for it. but we all have different opinions of "offroad"
Hey Bird, I agree with you, but seriously you should see the places I take my iload van!!!!
Company car.......goes anywhere.............
Undoubtedly the best off road vehicle in this country is a hire car!!!! Man those things go anywhere!!!! ;D
Quote from: briann532Undoubtedly the best off road vehicle in this country is a hire car!!!! Man those things go anywhere!!!! ;D
agree 1000%.... even hire mini buses. ;D ;D
it all comes down to just cause you can doesn't mean its a good idea ;)
(http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/ocdropzone/misc%20truck/rav4aussie.jpg)
Quote from: Bird on October 23, 2016, 07:07:28 PM
theres about 500 better options to start with... most of it is plastic and would fall apart as it isn't designed for it. but we all have different opinions of "offroad"
Well, you had better cross off all the dual cab utes, Pajero Sport, Izuzu MUX, Colorado7, Pajero, .........umm, just leaves the 200 series and Patrol ?? Lot of plastic on those 2 these days as well.
Peoples opinion of offroad will always be different !!
The proof readers should be sacked.
13.3 Raising of Four Wheel Drive Vehicles – Alternative to VSB 14 Modification Code LS
In the case of raising the height of an offroad type 4WD of ADR Categor NA, NB1, MC or MD, and only in this case, the following two options apply as alternatives to meeting the requirements of Section LS of VSB 14.
(the options are 75mm total lift, tyres and suspension, or 1/3 of suspenction travel and restrictions on tyre diameter)
[ Source: VSI 8 Guide to Modifications for Motor Vehicles ]
Spellcheck?
Quote from: gronk on October 23, 2016, 07:44:04 PM
Well, you had better cross off all the dual cab utes, Pajero Sport, Izuzu MUX, Colorado7, Pajero, .........umm, just leaves the 200 series and Patrol ?? Lot of plastic on those 2 these days as well.
Peoples opinion of offroad will always be different !!
Have you seen the latest Vitara ??? What the **** happened to that? Zooks used to be great 4b's... what I saw you wouldn't take into a coles carpark..
Quote from: Bird on October 24, 2016, 08:01:59 AM
Have you seen the latest Vitara ??? What the **** happened to that? Zooks used to be great 4b's... what I saw you wouldn't take into a coles carpark..
Yeah. They've been like that for a while now I think. No low range and unimpressive ground clearance. It's a bit disappointing because they were a good option if you wanted a smaller daily driver that was relatively capable of going bush on the weekend.
Quote from: MertsYeah. They've been like that for a while now I think. No low range and unimpressive ground clearance. It's a bit disappointing because they were a good option if you wanted a smaller daily driver that was relatively capable of going bush on the weekend.
I followed one on the freeway this morning, and took me a while to get close enough to see what it was :( Gee, no low range nothing.. :(
Quick google shows that model rolled out last year?
Quote from: Bird on October 24, 2016, 11:41:02 AM
Quick google shows that model rolled out last year?
Yeah. That sounds about right.
Quote from: Bird on October 24, 2016, 11:41:02 AM
I followed one on the freeway this morning, and took me a while to get close enough to see what it was :( Gee, no low range nothing.. :(
Quick google shows that model rolled out last year?
That's the new Vitara (basically the same beast as the SX4).
The Grand Vitara are still the same (with low range).
Even though the later model ones are all independent suspension they can still be fun on some challenging tracks. ;)
Quote from: Pete79 on October 24, 2016, 12:13:19 PM
That's the new Vitara (basically the same beast as the SX4).
The Grand Vitara are still the same (with low range).
Even though the later model ones are all independent suspension they can still be fun on some challenging tracks. ;)
Yep.
The Vitara (not the GV) also had dual range 4WD up until at least the 2012 model. They were pretty decent off road. The new ones are just an AWD (or 2WD) urban SUV.
So we've confirmed that the Ford Everest is not an off-road vehicle.
But can anyone confirm if they still come with the instant BBQ option?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/13b968e0a0ab92cc8f7a041f25c4f6d9.jpg)
Quote from: Pete79 on October 24, 2016, 05:53:00 PM
So we've confirmed that the Ford Everest is not an off-road vehicle.
But can anyone confirm if they still come with the instant BBQ option?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/13b968e0a0ab92cc8f7a041f25c4f6d9.jpg)
that one had Jeep accessories fitted.
Quote from: Pete79 on October 24, 2016, 05:53:00 PM
So we've confirmed that the Ford Everest is not an off-road vehicle.
But can anyone confirm if they still come with the instant BBQ option?
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161024/13b968e0a0ab92cc8f7a041f25c4f6d9.jpg)
Maybe its father was a Ford Exploder ...
Good one spada.
I was waiting for something like that.
I thought maybe everyone forgot that it's jeeps this forum is against.
Quote from: Cruiser 105Tvan on October 23, 2016, 06:13:52 PM
Just sayin' if it's not in the Manufacturers approved list of Accessories, they'll forbid it being fitted.
I wasn't referring to EMU's
They've already done it with HID Headlights.
No they didn't. The lighting requirements were there long before HID was even thought of.
HID doesn't meet it as a stand alone item, OEM fittings do. Therefore after market is no good.
Clear proof that the wrong people at Ford kept their jobs.
How could they be so stupid to not understand the market, if they produce a 4WD vehicle with dual range transmissions etc that it's not an off road?
really dumb Ford
Interesting read here from Autocar (http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/future-ford-models-be-more-region-specific) - there is a chance that Ford made a boo-boo closing down Australian production, but on the flip side explains why the Everest exists and will probably continue to do so.
On a side note, my local Ford dealer doesn't seem to have any Everests, but as they are also the Isuzu ute dealer, they have a good stock of MU-Xs
Quote from: Mallory Black on October 31, 2016, 07:43:47 PM
How could they be so stupid to not understand the market, if they produce a 4WD vehicle with dual range transmissions etc that it's not an off road?
really dumb Ford
Probably more to do with them understanding their hip pocket and not worrying about the market
All fixed...all Everests are now MC rated...new ones from 2017 and old ones are recognised in all states as MC.
Australia is a small market. Dont think they really care....
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Quote from: Railey on December 23, 2016, 10:23:34 PM
Australia is such a small market. They really don't care....
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Fixed it.
Quote from: Bird on October 23, 2016, 07:07:28 PM
theres about 500 better options to start with... most of it is plastic and would fall apart as it isn't designed for it. but we all have different opinions of "offroad"
Hear what your saying Bird, but I heard the same said when the 80 series came out...
horses for courses, some want to smash a mud hole, but there's lots of great 4WDing that
can be had in stock 4WD's and SUV's if you know how to drive.
Quote from: Ragman on December 23, 2016, 11:34:40 PM
Hear what your saying Bird, but I heard the same said when the 80 series came out...
horses for courses, some want to smash a mud hole, but there's lots of great 4WDing that
can be had in stock 4WD's and SUV's if you know how to drive.
Exactly right....amazing where a stock 4wd will go, especially driven sensibly, and if you want/need to go hardcore, then either spend a few bucks on the stock 4wd or buy an "old" clunker like a Patrol ! ;D