Interesting read on electric cars

[prodigyrf]

Well he's spot on-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rs44yW7vOP4
Because Joe Public now expect it to be an EV or a number of them-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=831zFMuzwYo

[DandyD]

The fire service are saying that it started with a diesel.

[prodigyrf]

Doesn't matter what started it and it could even be a terrorist bomb in the purported Range Rover-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12618033/started-London-Luton-car-park-fire-moment.html
What matters is this taking out a carpark full of cars just like the Felicity Ace and Fremantle Highway-

The fire then spread as a number of electric vehicles burst into flames in a domino effect, one firefighter suggested. As many as 1,500 vehicles are feared to have been damaged.

Thankfully no loss of life like Grenfell Towers or 911. Now think about the future moving to 100% explosive incendiary cars. All aboard the Spirit of Tasmania ferry full of EVs of varying ages maintenance and states of repair underneath you? The channel tunnel or Sydney Harbour tunnel etc etc?
Don't mass those explosive incendiary devices anywhere near me and mine OK.

[Bird]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12618033/started-London-Luton-car-park-fire-moment.html

impressive explosion !!!

[DandyD]

impressive explosion !!!

I wonder what that was. A petrol tank? Has an electric car ever exploded like that before?

I have witnessed a couple of battery fires but never an explosion.

[prodigyrf]

Wakey wakey as the bigger the lithium battery the more they can go bang even after you think they've gone out-
https://m.workplace.com/7NEWSAdelaide/videos/e-bikes-explode-in-a-fireball-after-they-were-first-extinguished-at-seaford-mead/1014832239637203/
You want to be riding on one of these when they do?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T71cVhxG_v4

[DandyD]

This the car that is supposed to have started it all. If it is a hybrid, the battery is at the back behind the rear bumper. That's not where the fire seems to be.

[Mace]

This the car that is supposed to have started it all. If it is a hybrid, the battery is at the back behind the rear bumper. That's not where the fire seems to be.

From what Ive read it was a Range Rover Deisel.  The fire spread to other nearby EV's.

[DandyD]

This the car that is supposed to have started it all. If it is a hybrid, the battery is at the back behind the rear bumper. That's not where the fire seems to be.

From what Ive read it was a Range Rover Deisel.  The fire spread to other nearby EV's.

There is conjecture now that the source of the fire was a diesel hybrid RR.

[prodigyrf]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk0MWDsueMY
Shhhhhhh and always remember your elites know what's best for you 

[DandyD]

If it was a RR Sport mild hybrid, the battery position under the front passenger seat fits with the video.

Sorry for the effing huge picture.

[prodigyrf]

Don't get yer knickers in a twist folks. Remember we lost a $20 million carpark too 
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/up-to-1-500-vehicles-in-luton-airport-car-park-fire-unlikely-to-be-salvageable/ar-AA1ieWis

[Bird]

LOL....

[prodigyrf]

"You don't normally see many structure fires go that quickly!"
https://amp-9news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.9news.com.au/article/72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16975227917952&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.9news.com.au%2Fnational%2Feastern-golf-course-clubhouse-destroyed-in-ferocious-blaze-northeast-of-melbourne-in-yering%2F72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1

Be careful getting water in the expensive fuel tank too by all accounts
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/other/scottish-couple-facing-33k-repair-bill-after-driving-tesla-in-heavy-rain/ar-AA1ikK3k

[Rowlie]

"You don't normally see many structure fires go that quickly!"
https://amp-9news-com-au.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.9news.com.au/article/72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQIUAKwASCAAgM%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16975227917952&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.9news.com.au%2Fnational%2Feastern-golf-course-clubhouse-destroyed-in-ferocious-blaze-northeast-of-melbourne-in-yering%2F72f363b7-376c-415e-8bc5-860415e119b1



It is a fair bit bigger than the 180sqm in the news article I would think - maybe 1800sqm? Being so new I would have thought it would be sprinklered. It was windy on Monday and potentially the ignition point was favorable to the breeze but you are right it was indeed a total conflagration.

I haven't had much to do with mobility scooters since lithium became popular but I presume they are fitting them with lithium batteries now. The mind boggles on what could happen in retirement villages etc.  Let's hope they sort them out before the ship really hits the span.

[prodigyrf]

Solar lithium battery storage at home anyone? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrLdBvcheqg
Insurance underwriters are going to put the mockers on all this even if the MSM continue playing dumb.

[prodigyrf]

In any case EV demand has peaked with plenty of supply and no more FOMO-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/tesla-joins-gm-ford-in-slowing-ev-factory-ramp-as-demand-fears-spread/ar-AA1itTsV
and their depreciation won't help the flippers and leasers trade up to new again-
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/used-ev-prices-drop-30-2023-going-electric-isnt-going/
Same in Oz with 2019 Tesla M3 Standard owners trying to minimize $30k plus in depreciation by selling privately as they don't like the ugly trade in quotes.

[DandyD]

It's not just Teslas that are depreciating fast.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NyGbuEOEnts&t=2391s&pp=ygUJTWFjbWFzdGVy

[prodigyrf]

Streuth-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/toyota-camry-hybrid-orders-paused/ar-AA1itVIU
What will it be like if they release a hybrid Hilux and Cruiser? Toyota should be auctioning them off the production line and that way they can outbid any carmaker for the inputs they need and ultimately satisfy everyone sooner.

[DandyD]

UK but probably relevant anywhere in the western world.

Electric cars risk becoming uninsurable

Difficulty pricing battery repairs forcing insurers to refuse cover


Electric cars risk becoming effectively uninsurable as analysts struggle to put a price on battery repairs, the researcher for the car insurance industry has said.

Jonathan Hewett, chief executive of Thatcham Research, the motor insurers' automotive research centre, said a lack of "insight and understanding" about the cost of repairing damaged electric car batteries was pushing up premiums and resulting in some providers declining to provide cover altogether.

Electric cars can be particularly expensive to repair, costing around a quarter more to fix on average than a petrol or diesel vehicle. Experts have previously warned electric vehicles are being written off after minor bumps because of the cost and complexity of fixing their batteries.

Mr Hewett said: "The challenge is that we have no way of understanding whether the battery has been compromised or damaged in any way.

"The threat of thermal runaway means that a catastrophic fire can take place if the cells of the battery have been damaged in a collision.

"What we're struggling to understand at the moment is how we approach that diagnostic technique.

"It's like a doctor trying to understand what's wrong with you without any notes or an X-ray."

John Lewis Financial Services stopped providing car insurance for electric cars last month for new and existing customers, as its underwriter Covéa analysed risks and costs.

Aviva removed insurance products for the Tesla Model Y earlier this year before restoring them several months later.

Vehicle repair costs rose 33pc over the first quarter of 2023 compared to 2022, helping to push annual premiums to record highs, according to the Association of British Insurers.

Average electric car insurance costs rose 72pc in the year to September, compared to 29pc for petrol and diesel models, according to Confused.com.

Mr Hewett said premiums would eventually begin to level out and match those of petrol and diesel cars once actuaries had the tools needed to better understand the risks of insuring electric cars, saying the issue would likely be "short term".

However, he added: "The battery is an extremely expensive component of an electric vehicle and until we find efficient ways of dealing with it we have the challenge of high premiums for electric vehicles, which nobody wants."

Some customers are now being quoted over £100 a week to insure their electric vehicles, with others reporting premiums doubling or tripling compared to a year before.

One reason attributed to the steep rise in the cost of electric car repairs stems from recommendations for electric cars to be kept 50ft apart in repair yards over fears they might explode.

Government guidelines suggest electric vehicles with damaged batteries should be "quarantined" from other cars due to the risk of battery fires, which are typically harder to put out than fires in petrol or diesel cars.

The London Fire Brigade has warned that fires involving lithium batteries are the fastest-growing fire risk in London, after it was called out to 87 e-bike and 29 e-scooter fires in 2022.

Paris's transport operator withdrew 149 electric buses from operation last year after two ignited on separate occasions.

The website Tesla-Fire.com lists 25 reports of Teslas catching fire globally since the beginning of 2023.

Thatcham Research said insurers would need to spend an additional £900m a year on quarantine facilities for damaged cars as a result of the safety measures by 2035, as more battery-powered vehicles take to the roads, with the changes forecast to add £20 a year onto all car insurance premiums.

Conservative MP Greg Smith, who sits on the Commons transport committee, said: "[The lack of battery diagnostics] is yet another reason why electric vehicles aren't remotely suitable for the mass market yet and why we should be looking to other technologies, like synthetic fuels and hydrogen, that will be more reliable and friendly to the planet."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/net-zero/electric-cars-risk-becoming-uninsurable/ Paywall 

[RebsWA]

Electric cars risk becoming uninsurable

with the changes forecast to add £20 a year onto all car insurance premiums.

Thats what will most likely happen here in Aus too and 20UK pounds is only the thin edge of the wedge.
To arrive at effective premiums for EV's would have too much impact on EV utopia and the pro EV governments around the world will not want that.
They will be happy with the cost being shared to ICE vehicle owners as it will help phase them out as seems to be the agenda.
Oh how I am looking forward to my already over the top premiums for my diesel tug and the wife's little ICE car rising beyond fair to support the pro EV club.

[DandyD]

Finding a viable alternative to Li-ion batteries as soon as possible seems prudent.

You never see these spontaneously combust.

[Champin]

May seem like a dumb question but I hear alot about li-ion batteries catching fire in scooters, E bikes and cars but not in caravans, RVs and 4wds. Why is that?

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[jclures]

I think most batteries in caravan and 4wds use LifePO4 batteries which are a different chemistry to the LI ion battery.
I found this link which might help.
https://blog.ecoflow.com/us/lifepo4-vs-lithium-ion-batteries/

[Champin]

Thank you kind sir. I didn't know there was a difference but hey, you learn something new every day. I'm using AGM batteries in my RV (7 X 120 ah) on the advise of the so called professional at the battery shop. He told me the li-ion batteries had a tendency to catch fire. A risk I wasn't willing to take however small. I think I'll go lithium when these batteries die.

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