Interesting read on electric cars

[Pottsy]

Bank Australia has announced that from 2025 they will not provide car loans for petrol or diesel vehicles only EVs.

Guess I won't be banking with them.

[shanegtr]

I get confused by the talk of Australia being a dumping ground for high emissions vehicles.

Part of the reason we lost our automotive manufactures was we weren't a big enough market for vehicles that are only sold in Australia. Much more efficient to build 1,000,000 vehicles in Thailand and send 10,000 of to Australia than it is to have a "small" manufacturer build 10,000 in Australia.

However the media/government tells us it is more profitable for a manufacturer to build 990,000 high efficiency vehicles on one production line, and build the odd 10,000 low efficiency vehicles on a low scale line instead of just having one production line.

So to rectify the issue we have impose efficiency standards on manufactures to force them to take the "high profit margin", small scale production line vehicles out of the market and instead give us the "low profit margin", high volume production line models.

Ironically the heavy vehicle industry has to be minimum Euro 4, but you struggle to buy anything less than Euro 5 or 6 (as far as European trucks are concerned). We just get what ever is coming down the production line.

I suspect in reality the light vehicle market is the same.

That's not the way I understand it. The difference is other countries have laws for average CO2 emissions of their fleet, so they need vehicles that are low emissions in their line up that need to sell to bring the average down. Australia doesn't have that so manufactures have no desire to ship those cars here - instead they get sold in countries where they need to and we just get the rest of the range. Imagine how Toyota and ford would cope with fleet targets - they would struggle as the bulk of their sales are all higher emission 4wds
https://www.eea.europa.eu/ims/co2-performance-of-new-passenger
New Ranger - 192-204g/km CO2
300 series - 235g/km Co2
Hilux - 207g/km Co2
Prado 209g/km Co2

EU fleet wide target 130g/km CO2

[WilSurf]

Just came back from Holland visiting family.
The amount of electric cars is amazing.
But they have charging stations at most servos on the freeway what helps.

[gronk]

Just came back from Holland visiting family.
The amount of electric cars is amazing.
But they have charging stations at most servos on the freeway what helps.

With a size similar to Tassie and flat as....I'd say well suited to EV's.

[Brij]

That's not the way I understand it. The difference is other countries have laws for average CO2 emissions of their fleet, so they need vehicles that are low emissions in their line up that need to sell to bring the average down. Australia doesn't have that so manufactures have no desire to ship those cars here - instead they get sold in countries where they need to and we just get the rest of the range. Imagine how Toyota and ford would cope with fleet targets - they would struggle as the bulk of their sales are all higher emission 4wds
https://www.eea.europa.eu/ims/co2-performance-of-new-passenger
New Ranger - 192-204g/km CO2
300 series - 235g/km Co2
Hilux - 207g/km Co2
Prado 209g/km Co2

EU fleet wide target 130g/km CO2

Actually that is the way I see it as well, but not as a "dumping ground" for high emission vehicles, but the manufactures selecting vehicles that the Australian public want to buy that just happen to be higher emissions vehicles than they sell into countries of smaller land mass/more urban environments.

As you suggest the vehicles you have listed are generally available in other markets, not just dumped into Australia out of some special high emission factory, but they aren't big sellers in Europe, or Japan because the market is different.

I foresee the requirement for manufactures bring their average emissions down will mean heavily discounted (loss makers?) low emission "shopping trollies", and the higher emission vehicles becoming more expensive to maintian net profits.

Not necessarily a bad thing, but my brain then askes the question - all these high efficiency buzz boxes are generally in their best environment commuting in the urban environmment, so therefore why not be even more efficient and just use public transport?

[prodigyrf]

Solar and wind power are extremely dilute forms of energy and fickle but to make them dispatchable with batteries is utter fantasy-
https://stockhead.com.au/resources/uh-we-dont-even-have-enough-resources-to-replace-the-batteries-were-running-now/
Most here would know that intuitively attempting to free camp with solar and batteries with a piddling fridge and a few LED lights.

It's worth bearing in mind that the energy of 4 barrels of oil is the equivalent of one man's physical hard work over a lifetime. You didn't have to impress our ancestors with the benefits of fossil fuels to ditch the horse ox windmill and millstream. We all live longer more pleasant lives as a result but how you see yourself in that depends on your outlook-
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2022/08/23/energy-crisis-lies-and-solutions-alex-epstein/

[Bird]

as long as its only those that have electric cars pay the extra charging fee + infrastructure I dont mind

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-08-24/caravan-parks-told-to-gear-up-for-electric-vehicles/101363598

[Fizzie]

But if you're parked on a powered site overnight, why can't you just use the available power

Then add 1 or 2 fast chargers, which are user pays.

[Bird]

LOL!!! hes spethial....

https://www.news.com.au/technology/motoring/on-the-road/tesla-owner-implants-car-keys-in-his-hand-using-microchip/news-story/4b1a21ed728921a2243433a6690d767b

[Bird]

I wonder how many of these people's mother and fathers were brother and sisters... ?


Call to ban petrol cars within five years or not meet emission targets
Sydneysiders have been given a big wake-up call, with a new report revealing the city is not pulling its weight.

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/climate-change/call-to-ban-petrol-cars-within-five-years-or-not-meet-emission-targets/news-story/5f6db37980d63578d63d32a247fa7d54

[gronk]

The phasing out of gas connections to new housing estates has already begun in Victoria !!
Nice move....force everyone to use electricity, even though it's dearer...

Saw an article today about WA coming up with new electricity rules....if you live rural, and you update or build, you must put in a 32A main breaker......so if you use an aircon, toaster and maybe a washing machine at the same time....the breaker trips !!
All about "future" proofing the network for when more EV's come along !!

[austastar]

Hi,
   We built in 1986 and had a dedicated 20A power socket wired in the garage.
Well it was for welding, but it could have been foresight: Couldn't it?
Yes?
No?
Maybe?

Cheers

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[gronk]

Hi,
   We built in 1986 and had a dedicated 20A power socket wired in the garage.
Well it was for welding, but it could have been foresight: Couldn't it?
Yes?
No?
Maybe?

Cheers

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

Might be a few backyard jobs getting done in WA for any "new" additions !!

[prodigyrf]

The phasing out of gas connections to new housing estates has already begun in Victoria !!
Nice move....force everyone to use electricity, even though it's dearer...

Saw an article today about WA coming up with new electricity rules....if you live rural, and you update or build, you must put in a 32A main breaker......so if you use an aircon, toaster and maybe a washing machine at the same time....the breaker trips !!
All about "future" proofing the network for when more EV's come along !!

She'll be right mate-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/money/markets/consumer-confidence-in-australia-s-energy-system-suffers-steepest-ever-plunge/ar-AA11fsnD
At least we'll be able to buy solar panels windmills and EVs from you know who-
https://www.statista.com/statistics/859266/number-of-coal-power-plants-by-country/
cos Xi is a much nicer bloke than Putin 

[Bird]

they live amongst us cant wait for the lawsuit when someone trips over the extension lead... and tell me you wouldnt unplug it every night


https://www.2gb.com/bizarre-electric-car-charging-set-up-in-sydney-street/

[prodigyrf]

Parks the Outlander PHEV in the street that can cop a fine for parking across a driveway (yes your own) while the old Tribute? banger sits in the driveway.
Way to go Greeny 

[DandyD]

LOL!!! hes spethial....

Dalaly told Teslarati. "You just use your hand."


There's a word for people who do that.

[Fizzie]

bizarre-electric-car-charging-set-up-in-sydney-street

Fairly normal, I would have said

There's a bloke just round the corner from us who has his motorhome parked out on the street, & we often see that with exactly the same set-up as this person has.

We've done it ourselves (& I think most van / CT owners will have done the same) - hooked the van up the arvo before leaving & left it outside all night with a power cord connected to keep the fridge cold.

[KevL]

Not sure what all the noise is about.
When ICE vehicles were first introduced into Australia there were only a few places where fuel could be bought.
They couldn't pull heavy loads.
They had very little range. Model T had a range of 25-40 miles.
Engines needed constant tinkering to keep 'em going.

All these problems were quickly overcome as the number of vehicles increased.
The vehicles were improved incrementally.
Vehicles for towing were developed

EV are no different.
Every year, they get longer range
Every year they get bigger
Units suitable for towing are not far away.
Charge facilities are increasing in number every day.
Yet so many seem to think EV's should have been born fully developed. That chargers should have been installed everywhere before we introduce EV's.

The next clown that says you can't tow a caravan with a Tesla should get an uppercut.
You can't cart 75 head of stock in a turbo diesel hilux either.

I imagine horse and cart drivers had the same conversations 120 yrs ago. They were proved wrong.


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[Steffo1]

Not sure what all the noise is about.
When ICE vehicles were first introduced into Australia there were only a few places where fuel could be bought.
They couldn't pull heavy loads.
They had very little range. Model T had a range of 25-40 miles.
Engines needed constant tinkering to keep 'em going.

All these problems were quickly overcome as the number of vehicles increased.
The vehicles were improved incrementally.
Vehicles for towing were developed

EV are no different.
Every year, they get longer range
Every year they get bigger
Units suitable for towing are not far away.
Charge facilities are increasing in number every day.
Yet so many seem to think EV's should have been born fully developed. That chargers should have been installed everywhere before we introduce EV's.

The next clown that says you can't tow a caravan with a Tesla should get an uppercut.
You can't cart 75 head of stock in a turbo diesel hilux either.

I imagine horse and cart drivers had the same conversations 120 yrs ago. They were proved wrong.


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Umm, I reckon electric motors, batteries and a lot of the relevant technology have been around a long time.
A lot longer than the ICE was, when taking over from Dobbin.
As for the turbo diesel Hilux analogy, you can't and never have been able to, cart much in one!

[KevL]

Some of the components have been around in various forms for a very long time, just not arranged into a modern motor vehicle.
The internal combustion engine was around for a fair bit before the car.
The wheel just a bit longer.
Not sure what any of that proves.


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[Pottsy]

Big difference in the weight of a caravan and 75 head of stock.

Yes EVs are developing and the necessary infrastructure to support them is growing, my concern as a retiree is the cost of purchase. I've looked at some of the hybrid options and their ranges are still very limited for anyone who does more than the city commute.
Can we reach the deadlines being set by governments or manufacturers and still use so called" green energy sources"  to fulfil all our power requirements without dependency on fossil fuels I think there is still a lot of work to be done.
Solar battery storage and wind farms, will it be enough.

[Steffo1]

Some of the components have been around in various forms for a very long time, just not arranged into a modern motor vehicle.
The internal combustion engine was around for a fair bit before the car.
The wheel just a bit longer.
Not sure what any of that proves.


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Sorry, I shall explain my thoughts. The first "Production" ICE was manufactured in 1876 and the first "Production" vehicle (Mr. Daimler) in 1886. A ten year learning curve.
The first mass produced battery, the Columbia, was out in 1896. The first, proper, massed produced, electric car, with a range of 350 km, was by GM, in 1996. A one hundred year span.
I'm not gainsaying you, just pointing out that the ICE vehicle appears to have been more adaptive, in a shorter time, than the electric vehicle.
Perhaps a matter of efficient benefits over less than efficient commercial and political processes.

[KevL]

I get where you're coming from.
I believe the difference is all a matter of need.
The shift from horse and cart to motor cars was a huge leap in so many ways.
The range of early vehicles wasn't great, but it was greater than a horse. And quicker.
The step from ICE to EV isn't near as big a leap. It's not a leap at all in fact.
It's simply evolution.
The support tech will flow quickly.
Battery development will accelerate.
This one area so clear.
The lead acid battery barely changed in 100 yrs. The rapid uptake in personal electronics since the Walkman has seen enormous research and development in batteries.
The growth and Govt mandates on EVs will see this continue.
Need accelerates development.

Consider:
Start of WW2 there were 28 biplane models in use
By the end the first Jets were being tested.


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[Steffo1]

I get where you're coming from.
I believe the difference is all a matter of need.
The shift from horse and cart to motor cars was a huge leap in so many ways.
The range of early vehicles wasn't great, but it was greater than a horse. And quicker.
The step from ICE to EV isn't near as big a leap. It's not a leap at all in fact.
It's simply evolution.
The support tech will flow quickly.
Battery development will accelerate.
This one area so clear.
The lead acid battery barely changed in 100 yrs. The rapid uptake in personal electronics since the Walkman has seen enormous research and development in batteries.
The growth and Govt mandates on EVs will see this continue.
Greed accelerates development.


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