Author Topic: Interesting read on electric cars  (Read 16814 times)

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Offline Bird

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #150 on: May 11, 2019, 04:17:00 PM »
I dont see anything "exciting' about electric cars.... nearly every single one currently otu there, and nearly every 'this is what the future brings' at expos look like Shit.
.. and as someone else said they are tiny. designed mainly for the soy mocca latte with smashed on soy focaccia crowd.
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Offline tryagain

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #151 on: May 11, 2019, 04:52:19 PM »
I dont see anything "exciting' about electric cars.... nearly every single one currently out there, and nearly every 'this is what the future brings' at expos look like Shit.
.. and as someone else said they are tiny. designed mainly for the soy mocca latte with smashed on soy focaccia crowd.
I wouldn't say I get excited about them (or any car for that matter) but do find them interesting, especially with performance like this https://youtu.be/6eGhjhx8O9M

Offline gronk

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #152 on: May 11, 2019, 07:12:03 PM »
I wouldn't say I get excited about them (or any car for that matter) but do find them interesting, especially with performance like this https://youtu.be/6eGhjhx8O9M

Certainly nice power, but until I can use one just like a normal motor car, I'll pass. Mightn't be too long, but they'll have automatic charging instead of having to plug the things in, and a faster way of charging ( not sure when that'll be ? )

Not sure I'll live long enough, but the next big thing in motor cars won't be battery power....this battery stuff is just a feel good short term solution.  Hydrogen , fuel cells, nuclear ??? Who knows ??
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Online Pottsy

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #153 on: May 11, 2019, 07:38:31 PM »
I like the idea of nuclear cars, no more elitism, everybody driving bombs! ;D :D
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #154 on: May 12, 2019, 02:29:01 AM »
Nothing wrong with EVs in terms of torque power and drive with towing ability and there's less maintenance than ICE cars but the killer is the cost and it won't be coming down to meet ICEs-
https://www.news.com.au/technology/innovation/motoring/motoring-news/the-reason-why-electric-cars-will-always-be-expensive/news-story/8f8d81ac872578ad665a264c91b17505

With the median price of cars on Carsales around $25k and once you hit $50k plus you're only left with around 18% of cars for sale which puts the ZOE, Ioniq, Kona and BMW i3 EVs costing $50-$80k in a very small elite marketplace. Australians who mostly live in stop/start urban environments wont even cough up the extra for hybrids that can pay back in 3 years as Honda know-

'Last October, Honda's local boss ruled out the introduction of the CR-V Hybrid in Australia, largely due to the relatively tiny local hybrid market and lack of government incentives.
"We have no current or immediate plans to bring in the CR-V Hybrid. We’re quite happy with the current line-up and the 1.5 turbo," he said.
"Our view is that the current hybrid market in Australia is less than one per cent of the total vehicle market. Really, without substantial incentives (from the government) much like there are in many other markets around the world, our interest is unlikely to grow significantly in the short term."
"Hybrid is certainly still a part of Honda’s global strategy. But unlike, say, Japan, where there are big customer incentives from the government, we think demand is going to limited in the foreseeable future," he added.'
https://www.caradvice.com.au/703989/2019-honda-cr-v-revealed-europe/

Full EVs are the cart before the horsepower if they're still running on coal and gas (and in SA diesel gennys) rather than sun and wind but Gigafactories of batteries are needed to ever make that happen and save the dreaded plant food. If full EVs can't do that until the power grid is shifted completely to renewables then why would you want to pay through the nose for EVs? The EV revolution won't happen because mainstream car buyers can't afford them and any annual fuel savings would be more than offset by interest savings as most buy new cars on tick.
Here you go EV fans get in before they rush out the door and pretend you're saving the planet til they blow up the rest of the coal stations-
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/Hyundai-Kona-2019/SHRM-AD-6013466/?Cr=2
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Offline rockrat

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #155 on: May 12, 2019, 07:13:37 PM »
Germany and Sweden are trialling different “electric road” concepts that allow trucks, buses and maybe one day, cars, to recharge on the go.

https://apple.news/ArB_zmpfuQk67D3BeA9NITA


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Offline edz

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #156 on: May 12, 2019, 10:51:28 PM »
The Bastards here cant even fix or keep a dinosaur tech road in good condition, Imagine the costs of  trying to look after  high tech rechargable powered roads, You'd cut into their expence accounts long lunches and Junket trip money, not gunna happen . ;D ;D ;D   Go less 5 klicks outside of a big city and Pfffttttt  hope your glorified Golf buggy got enough charge so you can make it to the next town to recharge .
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Offline Jeepers Creepers

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #157 on: May 13, 2019, 06:25:49 AM »
Germany and Sweden are trialling different “electric road” concepts that allow trucks, buses and maybe one day, cars, to recharge on the go.

https://apple.news/ArB_zmpfuQk67D3BeA9NITA


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Does mean pedestrians would get zapped crossing the road?

Offline Steffo1

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #158 on: May 13, 2019, 08:20:18 AM »
Germany and Sweden are trialling different “electric road” concepts that allow trucks, buses and maybe one day, cars, to recharge on the go.

https://apple.news/ArB_zmpfuQk67D3BeA9NITA


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Offline edz

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #159 on: May 13, 2019, 08:20:30 AM »
Mega sized Dodgem cars  ;D ;D Think I'll stick with Furzies version thanks   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGr0oifJMEI
« Last Edit: May 13, 2019, 08:23:10 AM by edz »
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Offline #jonesy

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #160 on: May 14, 2019, 08:45:25 PM »
Nothing new
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Offline edz

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #161 on: May 15, 2019, 09:43:29 PM »
Interesting  read of a test of a Tesla X towing an adapted T-Van ..Tesla has 90 kg ball weight limit and a non towing range of 560 odd km .. Then you stick a small camper on it to tow to your favourite caravan park / campground ... Credits to the RV online magazine ..
Check out the range drop when not even towing a loaded small  camper [ 100% charge to 30% in 190 km ] and not at speed ....
Reckon the EV market will have to do the equivelent of going from the wright flyer first flight to the moon in 10 years to be even close to being a viable proposition by 2030 .. Big money IE trillions needs to be injected for that to happen ..Either that or the tech is there and been buried waiting to be wheeled out of the vaults by some .
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 09:58:33 PM by edz »
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Offline PWE

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #162 on: May 15, 2019, 10:08:57 PM »
Good to know that the brake controller are excluded.😎
When an all electric win a Dakar type race, it will take it a further 5 years before it can start being considered to be a real SUV.
An electric car should be seen as a city car.
My model 3 will be a city car, I am not consider driving past the Sunny Coast.
My Cruiser is there to tour remotely or even just blacktop touring.

I struggle to see the purpose of the Model X. The technology is not there, so what is its use. Similar to the Lexus hydrid SUV.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 10:14:14 PM by PWE »
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Offline Pete79

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Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #163 on: May 15, 2019, 10:44:15 PM »
And yet at the same time a couple in the USA just finished a 12,400 km trip with their Tesla C 400D towing a 1.7t caravan without too much drama.
Apparently the biggest issue was parking close enough to the charge points with the van in tow.

This quote sounds like most people’s travel plans, especially those lovely grey nomads out there wandering around enjoying our awesome Queensland weather while their bricks and mortar down south is being continuously rained on, snap frozen and blown away for the next 7 or 8 months.... ;)

Quote
To find enough charging spots, they would leave their campground every morning before breakfast and drive for a couple of hours, then get breakfast while charging; drive a couple more hours for lunch and charge again, and aim to hit a campground by 4 pm to allow enough time to charge overnight. They stayed in campgrounds every night they weren’t staying with friends or family, and called ahead for reservations in the afternoon before arrival, once they had a sense of how far they could make it.

At campgrounds, they would pay extra for a camp site with 50-amp hookups to plug in the Tesla. Those sites, meant for RVs and trailers a lot bigger than the R-Pod, also had 30-amp plugs that they could use to power the trailer.

I guess the only real difference is what grey nomads are paying to fill those diesel tanks in their current tow rigs compared to what this yank couple paid for the whole 12,400km trip.

Quote
Fred calculated Supercharger charges at $289 for the trip, or $17 a day, not counting the extra money they paid for campsites with 50-amp hookups.

You go and tell those Mexicans they can do their whole winter tour for under $300 in fuel and see how fast “man gets to the moon”... ;)
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 10:47:07 PM by Pete79 »

Offline tryagain

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #164 on: May 15, 2019, 11:24:53 PM »
An electric car should be seen as a city car.
My model 3 will be a city car, I am not consider driving past the Sunny Coast.
My Cruiser is there to tour remotely or even just blacktop touring.

I think this is the bit that most people don't think about, I don't see the internal combustion engine going anywhere anytime soon, but could see the typical two-car family in the near future have one of each, the day to day run around would be electric whilst if they need to go on a longer trip they would take the petrol/diesel, if you don't need the big range out of an electric they could offer smaller batteries which would mean cheaper EV's as well and would still be fine for the day to day. I think around town the EV's will prove to be what many peoples tow/tourer rigs aren't, that being quiet, cheap to run, refined, easily manoeuvrable and zippy.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 07:54:39 AM by tryagain »

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #165 on: May 16, 2019, 12:20:25 AM »

When an all electric win a Dakar type race,

Here you go:
https://www.acciona.com/about-acciona/sponsorships/acciona-ecopowered-dakar/
 No, it didn't win but completed 100% of stages. Same can't be said of most of the 18,000 ICE vehicles that have competed over the years.

Also raced and finished in the Finke rally but got timed out on the one stage under a technicality because that rules couldn't accomodate an EV (even got told initially that it couldn't be entered because the rules only talked about vehicles with ICE). This is the local video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrkSMZIA3Sg


Offline Rumpig

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #166 on: May 16, 2019, 06:31:39 AM »
Was reading this yesterday in regards to Toyota replacing the 70 series....

Quote
“We have to bring a car to market … that fulfils the requirements of those peoples’ livelihoods and/or recreation, whether it be construction, farming, mining, recreation, private, whatever it may be,” Sean Hanley, Toyota Australia vice president of sales and marketing, said. “We’ve got to bring powertrains to market that reduce our CO2 footprint but still serve to be able to enable people the freedom of mobility.”



One of those drivetrains will be a petrol-electric hybrid system, in line with Toyota’s promise to ensure an electrified version of every model by 2025.
the option will be there if you want it, but won’t be the sole option
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 06:33:27 AM by Rumpig »
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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #167 on: May 16, 2019, 07:29:00 AM »
https://magazine.rvdaily.com.au/en_US/13101/192380/electric_vehicular_reality.html


Some excellent reading here from someone who has actually driven the various types of electric vehicles.  He makes some good points.

Offline Fizzie

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #168 on: May 16, 2019, 08:12:11 AM »
Tesla has 90 kg ball weight limit

Notice that it quotes specs as "Braked tow: 2270kg" but with only that 90kg ball weight ???

Think it'd be pretty hard to find that combo out there ???

And yet at the same time a couple in the USA just finished a 12,400 km trip with their Tesla C 400D towing a 1.7t caravan without too much drama.

I guess the only real difference is what grey nomads are paying to fill those diesel tanks in their current tow rigs compared to what this yank couple paid for the whole 12,400km trip.

You go and tell those Mexicans they can do their whole winter tour for under $300 in fuel and see how fast “man gets to the moon”... ;)

"called ahead for reservations in the afternoon before arrival, once they had a sense of how far they could make it."

Nice to have so many options of where to stay, that you can decide on your destination mid-arvo >:D

"At campgrounds, they would pay extra for a camp site with 50-amp hookups to plug in the Tesla. Those sites, meant for RVs and trailers a lot bigger than the R-Pod, also had 30-amp plugs that they could use to power the trailer."

& too bad about anybody with a motor-home that may also want to stop for the night >:D

"Fred calculated Supercharger charges at $289 for the trip, or $17 a day, not counting the extra money they paid for campsites with 50-amp hookups"

Sorry, but if you're paying $100 / night for a "big" campsite, rather than $30 for a normal slot, I really think that should be accounted for ??? Sure, it may be <$300 for "fuel", but also $2000 for accomodation
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #169 on: May 16, 2019, 09:17:47 AM »
You’ll notice I’m very specifically referring to grey nomads in all of my posts here, I’m not for one second saying a full electric car is a viable option for those of us that prefer to be ‘off grid’ when we travel.

Do you know the price difference between the various powered van sites in the USA?
Here locally we’re talking what $10 difference per night between a powered and unpowered site?
When you’re stopping and using the van park facilities anyway, the very minor difference that ‘might’ be charged for having the bigger power supply wouldn’t really factor into your running costs.

And you’re saying you can’t book any accommodation while you’re on the road???
That’s how we book pretty much all of our accommodation on big trips.
We set off in the morning aiming to get a set distance for the day, then make the call in the afternoon how far we want to push it, do we just do a quick camp on the side of the road or look for a nearby national park or some sort of attraction (a dam/weir/beach/creek) to stop at or just go as far as we can into the night and get the cheapest motor inn with a room available.

Vehicle manufacturers are very clearly saying they are going to produce these EVs as we move forward.
To think that facilitates won’t be built to accommodate these vehicles as they gain popularity is pretty naive.

Like I said before, I don’t plan on buying one anytime soon, but the fact is they are being built now and will become part of the mix in the car fleet of this nation.
Just as supercharged V8s or 4wds on 35” tyres and 5” lifts are not for all city people, electric cars may not be for all country people. But to say there is absolutely no place for them in our Australian car market is wrong in my opinion.

Offline Pete79

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #170 on: May 16, 2019, 10:12:29 AM »
Reckon the EV market will have to do the equivelent of going from the wright flyer first flight to the moon in 10 years to be even close to being a viable proposition by 2030 .. Big money IE trillions needs to be injected for that to happen ..

So you're saying it's going to cost trillions of dollars to connect a bunch 30amp or 50amp power points to an existing electricty network?
Really???

And how much do you think it really cost to set up the current network of service stations that are scattered around the country now?
And how much do you think it really costs to run fleets of semi trailers to cart millions of litres of fuel from the ports on the coast (where all of our imported fuel lands from the overseas manufacturers) and carried 1,000s of km out to the vast reaches of our outback?

Offline Bigfish

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #171 on: May 16, 2019, 10:48:30 AM »
So you're saying it's going to cost trillions of dollars to connect a bunch 30amp or 50amp power points to an existing electricty network?
Really???

And how much do you think it really cost to set up the current network of service stations that are scattered around the country now?
And how much do you think it really costs to run fleets of semi trailers to cart millions of litres of fuel from the ports on the coast (where all of our imported fuel lands from the overseas manufacturers) and carried 1,000s of km out to the vast reaches of our outback?

Half of these service stations wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the fact they have to sell everything from firewood to fishing tackle just to keep their doors open.

Offline edz

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #172 on: May 16, 2019, 11:39:50 AM »
I should have said  on a world wide scale to go to full EV everything,  Pete, sorry ..
Mobs calling for full EV for everything.. just isnt about cars .. These mobs havent even got heavy transport / farming / then there is long haul air transport / shipping EV stuff yet that works   .. Theres the trillions of $$
Dont get me wrong, EV is coming for sure and Im fine with that, Bring it on. So long as its affordable for all and not just the wealthy,  does the jobs thats needed and preferably is as easy to use as what we currently have . 
I do Wonder what $$ these renewable energy mobs are going to charge per Kw of power for the putting in / maintaining all these new recharge stations in out of the way areas all over  Australia, given that power is way cheaper than fuel ?? ...
Yep it costs Multiple billions for fuel / transport etc, Its saving grace is that those set ups are already in place / to a large part already paid for themselves many times over the last 160 years  and can provide fuel at X $ per liter ..
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 11:46:59 AM by edz »
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Offline Bird

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #173 on: May 16, 2019, 01:00:43 PM »
Wonder what effect this will have on employment...
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Offline krisandkev

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Re: Interesting read on electric cars
« Reply #174 on: May 16, 2019, 05:46:20 PM »
Think about with the new gov (it appears everyone wants them) and their target for elect cars imagine what the value of our petrol/diesel car will be?  I don't think we will get stuff all on a trade in.  >:D  Kevin
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