Author Topic: "Daily Rant" thread 2019  (Read 96283 times)

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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1250 on: October 31, 2019, 11:47:47 AM »
Quote from: #jonesy
We used to make stuff. Now it's cheaper getting it from overseas.
sadly true.

Quote from: Troopy_03
Yep, that's what happens when everyone is chasing stuff for the cheapest price possible.
extremely true :(
and theres no way it will reverse.
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1251 on: October 31, 2019, 12:03:07 PM »
Yep, that's what happens when everyone is chasing stuff for the cheapest price possible.
That's only partly correct. You have to look at what unions have done to Australian jobs.

17.5% leave loading, 3 and 4 weeks sick pay, 3 & 4 weeks annual leave, 35 hours work for 40 pay, site allowances, hight allowances, travel allowances, the list goes on, and these costs had to be paid for and still do.

How can you justify a labourer getting $2000 + per week

So before you have a go at the Chinese imports have a good hard look at home 1st.

And before you start on me union bashing I was a union shop steward before a lot of you were even born, and I've had my own businesses so I can see it from both sieds of the fence

 
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1252 on: October 31, 2019, 12:14:05 PM »
got the 25 words or less version?

My Summation is, I'm old, nostalgic and have a selective memory.

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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1253 on: October 31, 2019, 03:07:03 PM »
That's only partly correct. You have to look at what unions have done to Australian jobs.

17.5% leave loading, 3 and 4 weeks sick pay, 3 & 4 weeks annual leave, 35 hours work for 40 pay, site allowances, hight allowances, travel allowances, the list goes on, and these costs had to be paid for and still do.

How can you justify a labourer getting $2000 + per week

So before you have a go at the Chinese imports have a good hard look at home 1st.

And before you start on me union bashing I was a union shop steward before a lot of you were even born, and I've had my own businesses so I can see it from both sieds of the fence
Spot on


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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1254 on: October 31, 2019, 04:03:30 PM »
That's only partly correct. You have to look at what unions have done to Australian jobs.

17.5% leave loading, 3 and 4 weeks sick pay, 3 & 4 weeks annual leave, 35 hours work for 40 pay, site allowances, hight allowances, travel allowances, the list goes on, and these costs had to be paid for and still do.

How can you justify a labourer getting $2000 + per week

So before you have a go at the Chinese imports have a good hard look at home 1st.

And before you start on me union bashing I was a union shop steward before a lot of you were even born, and I've had my own businesses so I can see it from both sieds of the fence

X1,000,000 how can you expect a local car industry not to go under when after all the penalties etc like explained above someone is on 90K a year just to put wheel nuts on
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1255 on: October 31, 2019, 04:10:20 PM »
Quote from: chester ver2.0
... someone is on 90K a year just to put wheel nuts on
where do I sign? :D
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1256 on: October 31, 2019, 04:16:21 PM »
where do I sign? :D

Go to Thailand  :-*
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1257 on: October 31, 2019, 04:33:48 PM »
X1,000,000 how can you expect a local car industry not to go under when after all the penalties etc like explained above someone is on 90K a year just to put wheel nuts on

Honestly, I think they thought the government would just continue throwing 100's of millions of $$$ at them each year, it would be interesting to see the figures if the wages of those involved in the heavily unionised car manufacturing sector were at the same level as other factory workers if it would have needed the heavy subsidies to remain competitive.

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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1258 on: October 31, 2019, 05:21:34 PM »
Totally agree with the overpaid/underworked/unskilled comment by xcvator. The other thing to remember is that the car manufacturers in Australia were either US or Japanese, nothing to do with China.
There is a lot in the FB rant that I can relate to, but the FB OP didn’t mention the rich Australian individuals/corporations who don’t pay their fair share of the tax burden. Imagine the governments coffers if people like Packer, Palmer, Pratt, Forrest, Reinhardt, etc paid the same 34% tax that most middle income earners are handing over, including both my wife and I prior to retirement.
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1259 on: October 31, 2019, 07:43:18 PM »
Just saying,
It does not suppprt local vehicle manufacturers when all levels of government do not buy local.
I would not of had a problem with my rates, state or fed taxes purchasing local.
I don't get the high cost(union  backed), wages, shot them selves in the foot.
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1260 on: October 31, 2019, 08:29:54 PM »
It is not solely the vehicle manufactures.  Just how much does Australia manufacture today, compared to how much raw material we export and how many manufactured items do we import?   

We have the resources but it is cheaper for someone else to manufacture then us. 

think about why?
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1261 on: October 31, 2019, 08:58:08 PM »
Yes we can fix all that by paying the working scum a bag of rice a week. Mind you, you can keep your $1200 + per week job.
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1262 on: October 31, 2019, 09:14:26 PM »
That's only partly correct. You have to look at what unions have done to Australian jobs.

17.5% leave loading, 3 and 4 weeks sick pay, 3 & 4 weeks annual leave, 35 hours work for 40 pay, site allowances, hight allowances, travel allowances, the list goes on, and these costs had to be paid for and still do.

How can you justify a labourer getting $2000 + per week

So before you have a go at the Chinese imports have a good hard look at home 1st.

And before you start on me union bashing I was a union shop steward before a lot of you were even born, and I've had my own businesses so I can see it from both sieds of the fence

Hey you forgot the new condition for Qld labourers, over 28 degrees or 70% humidity they go home

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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1263 on: October 31, 2019, 09:15:43 PM »
Imagine the governments coffers if people like Packer, Palmer, Pratt, Forrest, Reinhardt, etc paid the same 34% tax that most middle income earners are handing over, including both my wife and I prior to retirement.

They pay exactly what they have to by law. By nature of their business, they probably pay nowhere near 34%, but ask any self employed person how much they pay ?
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1264 on: October 31, 2019, 10:56:14 PM »
It is not solely the vehicle manufactures.  Just how much does Australia manufacture today, compared to how much raw material we export and how many manufactured items do we import?   

We have the resources but it is cheaper for someone else to manufacture then us. 

think about why?
Yep, it cant keep going up n up n up for ever.... something has to burst...
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1265 on: November 01, 2019, 04:12:15 AM »
That's only partly correct. You have to look at what unions have done to Australian jobs.

17.5% leave loading, 3 and 4 weeks sick pay, 3 & 4 weeks annual leave, 35 hours work for 40 pay, site allowances, hight allowances, travel allowances, the list goes on, and these costs had to be paid for and still do.

How can you justify a labourer getting $2000 + per week

So before you have a go at the Chinese imports have a good hard look at home 1st.

And before you start on me union bashing I was a union shop steward before a lot of you were even born, and I've had my own businesses so I can see it from both sieds of the fence

Yep, you're spot on Keith

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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1266 on: November 01, 2019, 08:22:35 AM »
Yes we can fix all that by paying the working scum a bag of rice a week. Mind you, you can keep your $1200 + per week job.

No we can pay the worker based on the skills required to do the job they are in not how long they have been doing it and how many allowances their union can wrangle

As example that i was talking about above

A car plant needs some one to put wheel nuts on cars
The JOB (not the person in the job) should be capped at what the Job is worth (lets say 45k per year)
Meaning if you want to do only that job for all of your life that is fine but you will only ever be paid 45k per year (adjusted for inflation)

You dont make any more with allowances and penalties and if you want to earn more you go and train and then do the next job on the skills matrix etc

Pays fairly for what the role is worth
Promotes upskilling
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1267 on: November 01, 2019, 08:26:55 AM »
That's only partly correct. You have to look at what unions have done to Australian jobs.

17.5% leave loading, 3 and 4 weeks sick pay, 3 & 4 weeks annual leave, 35 hours work for 40 pay, site allowances, hight allowances, travel allowances, the list goes on, and these costs had to be paid for and still do.

How can you justify a labourer getting $2000 + per week

So before you have a go at the Chinese imports have a good hard look at home 1st.

And before you start on me union bashing I was a union shop steward before a lot of you were even born, and I've had my own businesses so I can see it from both sieds of the fence
That's a bit of an exaggeration, a labourer on $2,000 plus per week, unless there is a reason the company has found it cheaper to do that than what they may otherwise be compelled to do. I think you'll find that any of the larger manufacturers will pay the minimum they can get away with paying their workers. That's why they push for individual contracts and are completely against enterprise bargaining, they play the workers off against each other. Been there done that with one of the biggest global companies around.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a total union fan boy either, and can see how they have also rorted the system in the past and present, but without unions you'd still be working 40+ hours per week for a pittance with no overtime, sick leave, allowances for hazardous or confined environments  etc.

My working life for the first 22 years was in the military (apart from 2 months in a factory), and, to me, unions and unionists appeared to be a bunch of commies all trying to rip off the employers etc. All the while I was working, on occasion, up to 60 hour weeks with no extra pay. Sure we got leave in lieu, but that was often written off with the stroke of a pen, if it looked like the squadron had too many hours owing. And there was no such thing as a sickie, unless you reported to medical section, and if you were married, they may send you home. But if you were single and too sick to work, they booked you into the hospital for a day or two.

When I got out, I had my own business for seven years. No sick leave, no annual leave, no over time, no super etc etc and the customer bitching about an hourly rate less than what they were being paid with all the benefits they got with it. That's when I decided it wasn't worth my time and sanity, dealing with the public, and went to work for a very large global company, and found out how tight arsed they can be. That's when I first joined a union due to them refusing to pay workers any extra for spending up to 20 hours a week inside a fuel tank, and making the statement that they couldn't give a breakdown on their remuneration package and that we wouldn't be smart enough to understand it anyway. It was a fair bit more involved than that, but what a bunch of arrogant pr1cks.

From there I went to a very small company (in the process of merging with a larger company) that seemed to think they were doing you a favour just letting you work there, and didn't believe in supplying safety equipment, didn't believe in giving you a pay slip (my post on the other thread), paid minimum wage and ripped you off through either intent or incompetence, it was hard to tell.

Anyway, like I said.. stuffed if you didn't have them, stuffed when you do.
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1268 on: November 01, 2019, 08:49:19 AM »
That's a bit of an exaggeration, a labourer on $2,000 plus per week

Labourers working on Melbourne’s West Gate Tunnel are earning up to $200,000 a year, the Master Builders Association of Victoria has claimed.

According to the industry group, young, “entry-level” tradies working on the project are raking in $110,000 per year — in exchange for a 36-hour week.

But those with more experience who work the industry-standard 56-hour week are making a staggering $200,000 per annum.

“Site allowance” payments on the project have also soared to $9.25 per hour, which pushes up a labourer’s wage by more than $24,000 each year.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/wealth/labourers-working-on-victorias-west-gate-tunnel-raking-in-110000-for-36hour-weeks/news-story/4c0741984126a2343203f91e48ac23c0
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1269 on: November 01, 2019, 10:34:31 AM »
Labourers working on Melbourne’s West Gate Tunnel are earning up to $200,000 a year, the Master Builders Association of Victoria has claimed.

According to the industry group, young, “entry-level” tradies working on the project are raking in $110,000 per year — in exchange for a 36-hour week.

But those with more experience who work the industry-standard 56-hour week are making a staggering $200,000 per annum.

“Site allowance” payments on the project have also soared to $9.25 per hour, which pushes up a labourer’s wage by more than $24,000 each year.

https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/wealth/labourers-working-on-victorias-west-gate-tunnel-raking-in-110000-for-36hour-weeks/news-story/4c0741984126a2343203f91e48ac23c0

Have a look who the source is though..I wouldnt believe everything written in a newspaper. I work as a seafarer and if you believed what was written about our industry in the news we had cooks out at sea earning 200k plus a year and it simply never happened at all. Wouldnt surprise me if the figures are fudged for these labourers also
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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1270 on: November 01, 2019, 11:20:00 AM »
Those wages would be only if they worked only nights and every Saturday and Sunday and ever public holiday. Not
Possible.

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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1271 on: November 01, 2019, 03:39:26 PM »
I believe tradies who want to do sub contract work on some of these union controlled sites are forced to sign up to the union otherwise they told not to bother showing up.


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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1272 on: November 01, 2019, 04:19:40 PM »
I believe tradies who want to do sub contract work on some of these union controlled sites are forced to sign up to the union otherwise they told not to bother showing up.


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You don’t HAVE to but, the rings the safety guy will make you jump through is probably worth signing up!

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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1273 on: November 01, 2019, 04:50:17 PM »
I knew someone who is probably 45 now, but when he started out as an apprentice on a big site had the physically big union rep come and make it clear that not signing up wasn't an option (not from a legal perspective but from an intimidation perspective). He apparently was a rather mouthy teenager though and made several disparaging comments about him and his waste line and continued doing so until he walked away with his tail between his legs. 

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Re: "Daily Rant" thread 2019
« Reply #1274 on: November 01, 2019, 07:16:21 PM »
The people who are anti union have probably never worked in a big company that without a union presence , would be still working for award wages for doing work that the average joe blow wouldn't want to do.
For the self employed.....that's a choice you make, so unions are not your problem.

I've worked for fairly big wages ( under union rule ) and now work for award wages at a factory.....nearly $80,000 difference, but for workplace safety ( which hopefully keeps you alive ) I'd take the union place any day..

If you look at the safety record of union controlled companies compared to the same type companies with no unions ( USA coal mines is but one ), you may understand that unions do have a place ..
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