Author Topic: Whats making news - 2019 edition  (Read 34257 times)

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Offline corndog

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1075 on: June 14, 2019, 02:27:07 PM »
Anyone have a good idea of how many other mining projects that have approvals/waiting for approvals around Queensland. I know there has been some investigations over large areas done and some had been given approvals but nothing  has ever become of them..

Offline glenm64

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1076 on: June 14, 2019, 02:28:46 PM »
What saddens me, is the politics being played on energy policy is crippling the nation. When, and it is inevitable, we have to switch over to renewables, we are going to be so far behind. There wont be any chance of skill transitions in the labour market. Instead of developing technologies (and more importantly the skills needed) over time, we will be just like our automotive industry. Shut the doors and then stand around wondering what we do next. That is going to be disastrous and the biggest act treason by self interested individuals, political parties, and industries this country will ever see.

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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1077 on: June 14, 2019, 02:36:51 PM »
Sorry Rodt...I have enough money to see me out.  Jealousy is not in my vocabulary for myself...However I am angry at the way the land and water is being used for greedy corporations and no thought given to our people with regards to future needs. It appears the "I,m alright Jack" attitude is alive and well in politics and some sections of the population.

Offline JusyApples

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1078 on: June 14, 2019, 03:08:21 PM »
What saddens me, is the politics being played on energy policy is crippling the nation. When, and it is inevitable, we have to switch over to renewables, we are going to be so far behind. There wont be any chance of skill transitions in the labour market. Instead of developing technologies (and more importantly the skills needed) over time, we will be just like our automotive industry. Shut the doors and then stand around wondering what we do next. That is going to be disastrous and the biggest act treason by self interested individuals, political parties, and industries this country will ever see.

Cheers Glen
if we are going to be so far behind why are some of the worlds biggest countries still building coal fired power stations?

More like we will be behind if we don’t build more coal or nuclear plants.


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Offline paceman

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1079 on: June 14, 2019, 03:12:21 PM »
What saddens me, is the politics being played on energy policy is crippling the nation. When, and it is inevitable, we have to switch over to renewables, we are going to be so far behind.

agree with the energy policy being crippling, but the 'inevitable' part, i don't...

the only reason to move to renewables has been to stop our CO2 emissions (which, by the way, has not been proven to have any effect on climate).  side note, then why not nuclear?

if the CO2 emissions part turns out to be false, then coal/fossil is still the most efficient/responsible energy source (at the moment, and for the foreseeable future at least).  countries all around the world are building new coal plants every day for this very reason.

no doubt, we should be investigating ways of finding new energy sources (that is a responsible thing to do, for sure), but this 'inevitable' talk is based on something that has not even been proven, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that it plays no part.

i had an interesting discussion with someone the other day in the energy industry (of which i am a part of) and he came up with this, which i totally agree with:

the government should be tasking the CSIRO (along with renewables/nuclear improvement/development work) to come up with the most efficient HELE coal plant possible, and then make it so that if countries want our coal, they have to use our designs for their coal plants.

seems like win-win... best possible energy consumption with coal, lowest possible emissions and money coming in for licensing...

for those who are dead against coal, i suggest you take some time and read the following book... it puts a perspective on the fossil fuels vs renewables debate in a way that puts humanity first (which we all should do, with our kids and grandkids) and not money:

https://www.amazon.com/Moral-Case-Fossil-Fuels/dp/1591847443

it makes for very interesting reading...


Offline paceman

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1080 on: June 14, 2019, 03:14:54 PM »
It appears the "I,m alright Jack" attitude is alive and well in politics and some sections of the population.

for some, having a job that pays the bills and keeps a roof over their heads, is where their 'i'm alright, jack' attitude is coming from...

Offline Bird

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1081 on: June 14, 2019, 03:39:36 PM »
Quote from: paceman
the government should be tasking the CSIRO (along with renewables/nuclear improvement/development work) to come up with the most efficient HELE coal plant possible, and then make it so that if countries want our coal, they have to use our designs for their coal plants.

seems like win-win...
sadly logic, and win/win are foreign words to Gov Co.
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Offline paceman

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1082 on: June 14, 2019, 04:08:34 PM »
sadly logic, and win/win are foreign words to Gov Co.

don't disagree, there...

i honestly think some in the government want to do the right thing, but are just overwhelmed with the bureaucracy...

Offline Bird

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1083 on: June 14, 2019, 05:10:11 PM »
Quote from: paceman
i honestly think some in the government want to do the right thing, but are just overwhelmed with the bureaucracy...

Go in with best intentions, drink the magic cordial, and they are converted. Look at Peter Garrett for starters...
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1084 on: June 14, 2019, 05:16:53 PM »
i had an interesting discussion with someone the other day in the energy industry (of which i am a part of) and he came up with this, which i totally agree with:

the government should be tasking the CSIRO (along with renewables/nuclear improvement/development work) to come up with the most efficient HELE coal plant possible, and then make it so that if countries want our coal, they have to use our designs for their coal plants.

seems like win-win... best possible energy consumption with coal, lowest possible emissions and money coming in for licensing...

That is seriously a great idea.
Something like this is so much better then just digging it up and selling off with only some pissy little joke of a royality payment in return (that isn't even invested in any sort of future fund for our grand kids to to be able to use to fix up the mess we're creating for them).

Now all we have to do to get this idea off the ground is to find a way to entice all of our former CSIRO scientists back here after they all got sacked by the dinosaur and were forced to flee over to Europe for employment....
I can't recall the name of the guy that was in charge in 2014, but this is what he did to our chances of ever developing awesome ideas like you have proposed when he was in power:

"Analysis by the CSIRO Staff Association has revealed that 878 full-time positions are likely to go by June, in addition to 513 jobs lost the previous financial year.
The science agency will have lost more than 20% of its positions over two years.

No area of research has been saved, and that’s been very revealing to us.
These are very, very significant cuts and just go to prove that these cuts aren’t about achieving efficiency but are essentially about cutting research.
Scientists, engineers, lab technicians, field workers and support staff will comprise about 57% of the jobs lost.

The agency’s land and water division, which aims to deliver solutions to problems such as water availability, biodiversity, land management and climate-change adaptation, will lose 34 scientists and engineers, and 34 lab researchers.

Another 31 scientists and engineers and 35 lab researchers will go from the mineral resources and energy division, which has responsibility for developing technology to reduce greenhouse gas emissions in energy and transport."


Remember we've only ever had one prime minster openly admit that he believes "science is crap"....

Offline rockrat

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1085 on: June 14, 2019, 05:57:16 PM »
What saddens me, is the politics being played on energy policy is crippling the nation. When, and it is inevitable, we have to switch over to renewables, we are going to be so far behind. There wont be any chance of skill transitions in the labour market. Instead of developing technologies (and more importantly the skills needed) over time, we will be just like our automotive industry. Shut the doors and then stand around wondering what we do next. That is going to be disastrous and the biggest act treason by self interested individuals, political parties, and industries this country will ever see.

Cheers Glen
I suspect there is very little need for skills transition into the renewables market. Solar farms in particular are pretty basic and I know at least one company that is exploring ways to automate the build process.


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Offline rockrat

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1086 on: June 14, 2019, 05:59:12 PM »
Anyone have a good idea of how many other mining projects that have approvals/waiting for approvals around Queensland. I know there has been some investigations over large areas done and some had been given approvals but nothing  has ever become of them..


Try this:
http://www.statedevelopment.qld.gov.au/coordinator-general/list-of-large-resource-projects.html


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Offline corndog

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1087 on: June 14, 2019, 07:37:54 PM »
Just heard some expected news.  Couple of the big banks are cutting their rate on saving by more than the latest official interest rate cut. There needs to be a royal commission into their shonky dealings to sort them out. Or am I asking to much.

Offline achjimmy

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1088 on: June 14, 2019, 08:46:57 PM »
Skilled knowledge on renewables was a decade ago . Origin Solar , BP Solar, solar systems  and a raft of others left or disappeared when China started producing panels and cut the arse out of the market. We are inovatators and early producers. We had the knowledge and let it leave
Here for a good time, not a long time!

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Offline Bigfish

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1089 on: June 15, 2019, 06:55:41 AM »
Skilled knowledge on renewables was a decade ago . Origin Solar , BP Solar, solar systems  and a raft of others left or disappeared when China started producing panels and cut the arse out of the market. We are inovatators and early producers. We had the knowledge and let it leave

We are also the owners of a hell of a lot of the worlds resources for renewables.  If the Govt. had any signs of caring or wanting to see us as a prosperous nation it would be fully supporting the innovation, production and marketing of these resources by Australians here on home turf and selling to the world. How stupid are we when we allow foreign owned companies come over here, rip up our land, pollute our water, pay minimal royalties,employ their own 457 visa workers, use tax haven countries, take the resource home where it is transformed into a product we need and sold at a ridiculously high price back to us.  Something is very wrong with how we are governed. The CSIRO was recognised worldwide for much of its work. To see it dismantled to a backyard laboratory is a national disgrace.

Offline rockrat

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1090 on: June 15, 2019, 07:23:11 AM »
The reason we don’t have a strong manufacturing sector in this country is very little to do with the government. They propped up the car industry for decades and still it didn’t survive.
 Why? Because consumers in general  aren’t willing to pay more for “made in Australia “ and workers aren’t willing to work for Chinese pay rates.
We’ll have to wait and see how many 457’s Adani brings in but I suspect it will be far fewer than people are assuming. What we should be worried about is companies like Uber.




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Offline JusyApples

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1091 on: June 15, 2019, 10:36:20 AM »
The reason we don’t have a strong manufacturing sector in this country is very little to do with the government. They propped up the car industry for decades and still it didn’t survive.
 Why? Because consumers in general  aren’t willing to pay more for “made in Australia “ and workers aren’t willing to work for Chinese pay rates.
We’ll have to wait and see how many 457’s Adani brings in but I suspect it will be far fewer than people are assuming. What we should be worried about is companies like Uber.




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Offline corndog

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1092 on: June 15, 2019, 11:51:30 AM »
But are cars that are being made in Thailand all that much more expensive than a car that was made here? I'm not a car person so I have no idea. They would be manufactured cheaper in Thailand  but does my Aussie dollar get me  more or less from a import.

Offline tryagain

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1093 on: June 15, 2019, 12:28:20 PM »
But are cars that are being made in Thailand all that much more expensive than a car that was made here? I'm not a car person so I have no idea. They would be manufactured cheaper in Thailand  but does my Aussie dollar get me  more or less from a import.

The union's were quite successful in pushing up wages for those who worked for the car manufacturers to the point where they were getting paid very well, this was a decent part of the equation as to why it was no longer viable to keep operating without major handouts from the government https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.smh.com.au/opinion/holden-the-car-makers-australian-exit-is-a-good-thing-20131214-2zdvv.html
From what I have read the wages for those in car manufacturing are as low as a tenth of the figure here.

Offline corndog

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1094 on: June 15, 2019, 05:16:45 PM »
If it's a tenth  cheaper or let's say it's  half the cost of making them here, has that dropped the price of buying a car. I'm  sure the price didn't  drop by a 10th or even half. I doubt it dropped by much at all. So if we are paying the same for an overseas car, made at a fraction of the cost, good for us. Gives the workers in Thailand a job, and makes the car manufacturers richer. At least being made here it would be Aussie workers and even though they were getting paid too much for some, the money was in Australia and more than likely spent in Australia.  Just a simplistic  look at it.

Offline rags

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1095 on: June 15, 2019, 05:57:34 PM »
If it's a tenth  cheaper or let's say it's  half the cost of making them here, has that dropped the price of buying a car. I'm  sure the price didn't  drop by a 10th or even half. I doubt it dropped by much at all. So if we are paying the same for an overseas car, made at a fraction of the cost, good for us. Gives the workers in Thailand a job, and makes the car manufacturers richer. At least being made here it would be Aussie workers and even though they were getting paid too much for some, the money was in Australia and more than likely spent in Australia.  Just a simplistic  look at it.

I haven't ever bought an Australian car before but have bought one or two cars before and believe they are cheaper now than say 10 years ago and we get more fore the dollars too.
Example 1 A Corolla in 2005 cost approx  $ 23000 today it will cost $23000
Example 2 A base model Prado cost $48000 in 1999, in 2015 I purchased a base model Prado for $50300
Example 3 A Honda Jazz cost approx $20000 just 4 years ago, today you wil D/A for $16800.

The first 2 examples are Japan built cars, The Honda was Japan but now Thailand

Offline corndog

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1096 on: June 15, 2019, 06:06:59 PM »
Good to see those figures. Not sure if those would have been made in Australia  or were imported. Anyone have figures of Aussie  made cars and the same car imported now?  For recent model cars.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 06:30:12 PM by corndog »

Offline rockrat

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1097 on: June 15, 2019, 06:25:52 PM »
Good to see those figures. Not sure if those would have been made in Australia  or were imported. Anyone have figures of Aussie  made cars and the same car imported now?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Commodore_(VB)
When it first came out the lowest spec VB Commodore was around $6,500. Now about about $36,000.

Average wages in 1981-82 were about $300 per week, now about $1,600. So it would take about 22 weeks to earn enough to buy a base model VB in 1981 and the same for a based model in 2019.

Obviously the equipment levels are very different so not really comparing apples for apples.


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Offline Bird

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1098 on: June 15, 2019, 08:15:01 PM »
Quote from: rockrat
Average wages in 1981-82 were about $300 per week, now about $1,600
where do I sign?
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Offline Kangaron

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Re: Whats making news - 2019 edition
« Reply #1099 on: June 15, 2019, 11:40:30 PM »
where do I sign?

But you have to work Bird, not scan the internet all day. ;D