Author Topic: 2018 Supercars  (Read 9942 times)

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Offline gronk

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #75 on: April 18, 2018, 06:15:20 PM »
There'd be too many complaints that they were flogging all the Aussie made cars and they'd be banned... its never happened before.

Doesn't work like that any more. That's why there is less than a second along the grid, supercars call it parity......call it knobbling any car that looks like having a big advantage over another.
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Offline macca

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #76 on: April 18, 2018, 08:00:33 PM »
Bathurst camp grounds are still pretty full but the big difference now is a camp site will now have a caravan with mum, dad & two kids where as 10, 15 years ago that site would have 20 blokes on it. We've had two sites up there for longer than i can remember and in the old days by the time you got the cars and tents on them you didn't have room to fart now we have two camper trailers and two or three tents, four cars and nearly enough room for a cricket match.  Last year in town Friday night was the quietest I have ever seen and yet they say they had a record crowd, I don't think so. I am probably not going to go this year and apart from 2008 when mum took a turn for the worse and i turned round and came home it will be the first i have missed for 20, 25 years, but i did say "probably not"

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Offline alnjan

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #77 on: April 18, 2018, 09:50:29 PM »
So just wondering how little trouble they had Tagging the Mustang and Camaros body panels onto the Existing Race car Chassies ..
Presto Race ready Mustang and Camaro [ They do it when a team changes from a Ford to Holden,  AKA 888 Racing ] .

That's what I was wondering.  How they are going to make them fit over the car of the future?
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Offline gronk

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #78 on: April 18, 2018, 11:10:03 PM »
That's what I was wondering.  How they are going to make them fit over the car of the future?

Same as the new Holden ....adjust the body shape and size to fit. They don't use a complete road car body shell.....they shorten it and make it narrower if they need.
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Offline macca

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #79 on: April 19, 2018, 07:02:12 AM »
That's what I was wondering.  How they are going to make them fit over the car of the future?
They dont use any of the road car on the COTF chassis, grills and badges excepted, they are different wheelbase and overall body length. They make panels from either very thin composite or aluminium, and not much aluminium any more think the bonnet is the only ali panel on the new Holden and make them resemble the road car, not one panel from the race car would fit a road car. There is nothing above the floor line that is not safety, performance or sponsorship related, some may argue that some of the drivers are , even the windscreen wiper motor is on the floor in them. Supercars are out and out race cars that loosely resemble a road car

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #80 on: April 19, 2018, 09:23:10 AM »
Quote from: macca
There is nothing above the floor line that is not safety, performance or sponsorship related, some may argue that some of the drivers are , even the windscreen wiper motor is on the floor in them. Supercars are out and out race cars that loosely resemble a road car

and that's what cracks me up when they say Holden V Ford...  The badges would even be special material.

but don't forget, there'd be manya bogan who wouldn't realise they aren't from the showroom floor with a cage, exhaust and paintjob.
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Offline macca

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #81 on: April 19, 2018, 10:25:25 AM »
and that's what cracks me up when they say Holden V Ford...  The badges would even be special material.

but don't forget, there'd be manya bogan who wouldn't realise they aren't from the showroom floor with a cage, exhaust and paintjob.
Been a Holden man all my life so the bogan in me still wants to see the badge win but i follow the drivers more now days guys like Scotty, Chaz are exceptional drivers but i still go back to team red with guys like Davey and Gizzie. Sure they make mistakes and do some stupid things from time to time but most people dont realise how close these guys are to the edge ALL the time, there is only tenths of a second between the top drivers and  about half a second between most of the field. I watch a lot of in car footage and it amazes me how they  can change brake bias, change the front and rear bar settings, check their lap times on the dash, check their mirrors, have a drink, talk to their engineer, remember to breath all between one gear change, but that goes for all race drivers I guess.  BTW Erebus make their own badges on a 3D printer

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Offline DannyG

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #82 on: April 19, 2018, 10:50:45 AM »
Ive been following touring cars in Australia since the 70's. My earliest memories are watching Bathurst with my dad as a kid.

So just like some of you I loved the 'production' car racing and the idea of race Sunday and buy Monday. We would love how the Holden's broke gearboxes or Diffs and couldn't last the distance  ;D
The manufacturers were forced to build cars that were fast and could last the distance, or at least try to.

But then things changed. The powers to be and even the manufacturers to a certain extent realised that it is not competitive enough on the track and they were potentially doing themselves more harm than good so they changed the rules and during the group C era teams were going way outside the 'production car' guidelines and the richest teams were a real force as in most motorsport but it made legends like the 'battling' Dick Johnson etc. They changed it to allow the group A class and the supercars like the Sierra's and Skylines were too good.

We didnt like it. Well the greater majority of bogan Australia (yes im one of them) didnt go much on the overseas cars beating our so called race sunday and buy monday Falcons and Commodores.

So they went to the 'supercar' era and new set of regulations. This got rid of the Group A Euros and put it back to Holden vs Ford which is what the punters wanted.
Sure at the time the Commodores had to run Ford Diffs because the manufacturer couldnt make one strong enough and I could be wrong but I think a couple of teams even adapted the Top Loader gear box for reliability. Oh and lets not forget that most of Holdens also ran a Chev engine, not taking away Perko's lengendary win with the 308 at Bathurst of course.

But the point being here is that even at this stage before the current 'car of the future' rules were brought in, we were not buying on monday what they were racing on sunday. And we hadnt been for donkeys years. Yes sure they still started out with a factory body shell but come on gents its about the brand not whats behind the badge.

The DNA of Australian motorsport has been laid out by our strong history and the legends that made it. The sport had to change to the nascar style it is today for many reasons. Even Nascar started the same way we did, STOCK cars racing, but for sustainability and to keep it competitive they control everything.

We race for the Badge and the brand. It was essentially us that forced the sport in the direction its gone.

If you like production car racing support it. I like the 12 hour, actually I like watching lawn mowers race but Supercars is my favourite motor sport in Australia and I am really looking forward to the Mustangs next year and now seeing Ford back in the game in a bigger way.

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Offline edz

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #83 on: April 19, 2018, 11:12:43 AM »
Given the track record of the Blue Oval badge company, They'll back a few teams till they win a few races, then the factory will walk away from the teams just the same as they have always done .
 
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Offline DannyG

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #84 on: April 19, 2018, 11:18:28 AM »
Given the track record of the Blue Oval badge company, They'll back a few teams till they win a few races, then the factory will walk away from the teams just the same as they have always done .
 

Not so sure about this now that Roger Penske's organisation is a part of the series. He is a very important partner to Ford in the US.
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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #85 on: April 19, 2018, 12:11:50 PM »
Quote from: DannyG
We race for the Badge and the brand.
So if they were turbo 3 cylinders with a Ford badge on it you'd be happy?
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Offline DannyG

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #86 on: April 19, 2018, 12:17:33 PM »
So if they were turbo 3 cylinders with a Ford badge on it you'd be happy?

If it was a 3 cyl turbo lawn mower Id love it ;)

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Offline alnjan

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #87 on: April 19, 2018, 01:10:23 PM »
and that's what cracks me up when they say Holden V Ford...  The badges would even be special material.

but don't forget, there'd be manya bogan who wouldn't realise they aren't from the showroom floor with a cage, exhaust and paintjob.

Which is why I have said it before, why would any car maker show any interest in the Supercars at all.  Nothing in it for them. 
Cheers

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Offline DannyG

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #88 on: April 19, 2018, 01:35:35 PM »
Which is why I have said it before, why would any car maker show any interest in the Supercars at all.  Nothing in it for them. 

There obviously is something in it for them Al, otherwise they wouldnt be putting in the money they do.

Even though the cars are not what you buy they are still representing the brand.

I am sure just the HSV and Tickford side of the business alone would be getting their moneys worth. Its all about brand loyalty and keeping the brand in the public eye etc.
For the same reason they are putting money into the dual cab utes. Sure the utes are closer to what we are buying but its for the brand.

Have a look at what Nissan have done with the Altima. Talk about far removed from the road going car, yet they see a value in having the brand represented in Supercars. For how long I am not sure but they have poured millions into it to date.
Im guessing they were hoping the sport went the way of twin turbo 6's sooner rather than later so they could bring in something more relevant but it hasnt worked out that way yet.

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Offline Pottsy

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #89 on: April 19, 2018, 01:43:31 PM »
Supercars still has tremendous pull and brand recognition for its sponsors, having been involved in the past as a naming rights sponsor for seven years with Stone Bros and Erebus I can vouch for this and the tremendous benefit it provided our company. Expensive, yes, but did we see tangible increases in sales etc, yes we did.
It offers a great vehicle to reward your customers etc and I would do it all again in a heartbeat if I had the opportunity.
Holden, Ford, Nissan it doesn't matter, most fans love it whether they support a brand, a team or an individual driver and there will always be generational change. Interestingly it is the second most watched sport by females behind AFL. When we started sponsorship we got plenty of emails and letters from race fans supporting our decision and telling us they would search out our products for purchase. :cheers:
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Offline macca

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #90 on: April 19, 2018, 03:15:37 PM »
Which is why I have said it before, why would any car maker show any interest in the Supercars at all.  Nothing in it for them.
Why do Ferrari, Mecedes, Renault etc pour millions into F1. You should check out the amount of people in the merchandising alley at Bathurst that would answer your question in a heart beat

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Offline gronk

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #91 on: April 19, 2018, 05:47:50 PM »
and that's what cracks me up when they say Holden V Ford...  The badges would even be special material.

but don't forget, there'd be manya bogan who wouldn't realise they aren't from the showroom floor with a cage, exhaust and paintjob.

Brand loyalty, not the actual car itself, is what it's all about.

Good old Nascar have body shells that don't even look like a road car, but the yanks still get out in their thousands to watch..
It's been 40yrs since they raced "stock" roadcars, so I don't understand people still "missing" that type of racing.
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Offline edz

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #92 on: April 19, 2018, 06:26:51 PM »
[quote ]

It's been 40yrs since they raced "stock" roadcars, so I don't understand people still "missing" that type of racing.
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Offline alnjan

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #93 on: April 19, 2018, 08:15:08 PM »
Which is why I have said it before, why would any car maker show any interest in the Supercars at all.  Nothing in it for them.


Let me try to clarify my comment, yep money in it for them, people will always by the brand merchandise, what I was referring to goes back to when it was the manufactures vehicle racing.  Back when race day was more a product testing of each manufactures vehicle.  Now with the COTF and using non manufactures components, what is there in Supercars for the manufactures to gain technically rather then financially. 

If that makes sense. 
Cheers

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Offline DannyG

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #94 on: April 19, 2018, 08:26:10 PM »
Yep that makes sense Al and I’d say absolutely bugger all these days ;)
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Offline mumbls

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #95 on: April 19, 2018, 08:33:11 PM »
Totally away from the where's and wherefore's of the V8's. Is anybody on the island for the racing taxi's this weekend?
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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #96 on: April 20, 2018, 09:55:25 AM »
Quote from: alnjan
Back when race day was more a product testing of each manufactures vehicle.  Now with the COTF and using non manufactures components, what is there in Supercars for the manufactures to gain technically rather then financially. 

If that makes sense.
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Offline DannyG

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #97 on: April 20, 2018, 10:13:11 AM »
Back in the day of tough muscle cars that we all love there was not a lot of competition in the market. You are right, racing had relevance for manufacturers and it was great to see them build stronger, faster, better cars for us because they wanted them to win on the race track.

But sadly those days are gone. We no longer manufacturer locally. There is a massive amount of competition to supposedly keep the quality honest and its such a price driven industry now.

The generations have changed as we all know. Its all about brand image now and building cars to a price and to a market.

Dont get me wrong, I agree that the good old days were great but it is what it is and Ill always enjoy our v8's....while they are v8's  :-*
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Offline alnjan

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #98 on: April 20, 2018, 10:55:26 AM »
so 'our' Supercars are become more and more like Nascars, so how long before we have oval tracks?
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Offline DannyG

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Re: 2018 Supercars
« Reply #99 on: April 20, 2018, 11:01:17 AM »
so 'our' Supercars are become more and more like Nascars, so how long before we have oval tracks?

They are a lot like Nascar in regards to a common control chassis, ECU, Transaxle, Brakes etc just add your body of choice which also has controlled aero so its not better than the next shape and add your engine of choice which again yes its controlled for its max rpm and few other things in the name of competitiveness!!

Where we are different to Nascar is that Ovals are not in our motorsport DNA, in Nascar they obviously are.

Controlling all those components on a race car is about keeping the costs down and keeping it competitive.

There are other forms of motorsport that are largely based on production cars if thats what you prefer to see.
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