Author Topic: Batten Down the Hatches Qld  (Read 16875 times)

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Offline Bird

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2019, 04:39:03 PM »
pretty much same rainfall we’ve had here in our area of Brisbane...driest December on record ever and SFA in January thus far also. Had a couple of very light showers the other day and this morning, but nothing in the guage as such here.
just enough to make it muggy and humid? :(
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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #76 on: February 02, 2019, 05:16:02 PM »
pretty much same rainfall we’ve had here in our area of Brisbane...driest December on record ever and SFA in January thus far also. Had a couple of very light showers the other day and this morning, but nothing in the guage as such here.

Umm, it is already the second day of February Rummie.  Try to keep up  :D

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Offline Coolblue80

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #77 on: February 02, 2019, 05:55:03 PM »
Well my Dad made the news up in Townsville. He's been staying up at my sister's place having treatment for his cancer. They live out on 25 acres out near the dam. Anyway, he's started struggling with the side effects of his chemo and needed medical assistance. The only way out was with the help of the swift water rescue crew. That was Tuesday morning and unfortunately he is still in hospital receiving treatment. The upshot is that it's probably the best place to be whilst this weather event is happening. My sister and family have been on a 10 day cruise and left prior to all the weather. They arrived in Brissy this morning and can't get back to their property. Half of the 25 acres was under water when Dad left and they've had a heap more rain since, plus the releases from the dam. We were up there over Christmas and it's unbelievable seeing where the water is at the moment. Anyways, stay safe up there.
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Offline Rumpig

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #78 on: February 02, 2019, 06:26:43 PM »
Umm, it is already the second day of February Rummie.  Try to keep up  :D

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Offline bkim

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #79 on: February 03, 2019, 12:57:27 AM »
"Some of our Townsville swaggers may have more accurate details, but I’m hearing stories about the army possibly having to take drastic action on the dam wall if the levels get too high.

Townsville is one of those special places, while it is in the wet tropics it doesn’t really get proper wet events all that often. It’s times like this when we see how poorly the city is able to handle proper rainfall. "




As I have lived there for almost 70 years, I find some of your comments interesting.  I doubt many other major cities experiencing rainfall of around a metre plus in a few days would cope as well or any better, unless things have changed since I dealt with them, the army are neither equipped or permitted to do anything to the dam.

Townsville is not considered to be in the wet tropics, which starts approximately 100km or so further north, but it does get very intense rainfall on occasions at reasonably frequent intervals, I recorded 680mm in 20 hours in January 98 and there have been many other occasions of very high rainfalls, the main problem at the moment is consistent very heavy rainfall in the catchment area for an extended period, usually intense rainfall such as this in the tropics, tends to last 24 to 48 hours then ease off to a more steady rate.

My understanding from civil engineer's who were in QLD gov water resources dept and the Council, is the dam flow rates are controllable by the flood gates up to about 300% capacity, over that, water will be above the flood gates and flow cannot be controlled, the possibility of that ever happening is considered extremely improbable!

Unless we get extremely heavy rain prior to 9am Sunday I expect to be a bit over 1200mm since 28th January, when I check the gauge in the morning

 

« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 01:54:18 AM by bkim »

Offline Jeepers Creepers

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2019, 04:26:08 AM »
Its pissing down there still on the radar at the moment.

in 2011, there was stories doing the rounds that Wivenhoe's dam wall was suspect and about to fail.

Also talk of uncontrolled issues with over the spill ways (earth style) and how they would wash away quickly.

True or not, I don't know, as the reporters an stories were getting out of control.

Hopefully, all will be ok with the dam  up north.
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Offline Pete79

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2019, 07:18:51 AM »
As I have lived there for almost 70 years, I find some of your comments interesting.  I doubt many other major cities experiencing rainfall of around a metre plus in a few days would cope as well or any better, unless things have changed since I dealt with them, the army are neither equipped or permitted to do anything to the dam.

Townsville is not considered to be in the wet tropics, which starts approximately 100km or so further north, but it does get very intense rainfall on occasions at reasonably frequent intervals, I recorded 680mm in 20 hours in January 98 and there have been many other occasions of very high rainfalls, the main problem at the moment is consistent very heavy rainfall in the catchment area for an extended period, usually intense rainfall such as this in the tropics, tends to last 24 to 48 hours then ease off to a more steady rate.

My understanding from civil engineer's who were in QLD gov water resources dept and the Council, is the dam flow rates are controllable by the flood gates up to about 300% capacity, over that, water will be above the flood gates and flow cannot be controlled, the possibility of that ever happening is considered extremely improbable!

Unless we get extremely heavy rain prior to 9am Sunday I expect to be a bit over 1200mm since 28th January, when I check the gauge in the morning
Yes 1998 was “the big one” for Townsville. I happened to be stuck at a relatives house not far from the Ross River waiting for the highway north to reopen for that one.
I noticed yesterday that the Ross river had already passed the record height from that 1998 event.

Townsville’s average annual rainfall is 1100mm, so to have 1200mm in these last few days is just amazing.

My comments regarding Townsville flooding are purely observational. As you know South Townsville floods on the spring tides.
Townsville has a very small catchment area which is sandwiched between the mountains and the ocean. The areas most populated are very flat and the majority of the city center and to the south and west is built on mud flats. Natural drainage is poor in a lot of suburbs (the newly built ones seam to be better then those older ones closer to the city center).
Apart from the occasional cyclone that passes by, Townsville really just doesn’t get proper rain events when compared to the surrounding areas of that region.

At only around 750 square km the Townsville catchment area is much smaller then the surrounding river systems.
The Burdekin, for example, receives roughly the same annual rainfall, while its catchment is over 130,000 square km and has only recorded 10 major floods.

You mentioned other cities getting that amount of rainfall.
The 2011 Brisbane floods had exactly that. Over 1200mm of rain fall on a catchment area of almost 14,000 square km (18 times bigger then Townsville’s catchment) in the period leading up to the actual flood, including around 500mm falling above the dams in the immediate days prior. 
Poor management of the dam that was built for flood mitigation but now primarily used for water storage worsened the down stream flooding.

Which, thanks for clearing up, I was hearing the same about  the Townsville dam.
Some people get a bit over excited in big events like these and I was hearing all sorts of hyped up rumors about the dam wall.
Pretty much exactly as was happening in the Brisbane flood.

It’s a big call, release more water now and flood a few homes or don’t release it and risk a major incident if it keeps raining.

Anyway, this will be one for the record books and I hope everyone gets through it ok.
Stay safe.

Offline Spada

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2019, 08:15:10 AM »

Some people get a bit over excited in big events like these and I was hearing all sorts of hyped up rumors about the dam wall.


Its usually the tv "reporters in raincoats" that hype the crap out of everything.
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Offline Jeepers Creepers

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #83 on: February 03, 2019, 08:24:24 AM »
yeah, all 28 of them.
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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #84 on: February 03, 2019, 08:25:02 AM »
Its pissing down there still on the radar at the moment.

in 2011, there was stories doing the rounds that Wivenhoe's dam wall was suspect and about to fail.

Also talk of uncontrolled issues with over the spill ways (earth style) and how they would wash away quickly.

True or not, I don't know, as the reporters an stories were getting out of control.

Hopefully, all will be ok with the dam  up north.
i'd assume the concerns with Wivenhoe were real.... it wasn't that long ago really (about 20 years maybe) that they discovered the dam wall wasn't properly anchored to the bedrock below, and that if some of the earth started washing away beside it that the entire wall could possibly turn sideways. From what i was told (by a family member engineer involved with it)  they ended up drilling holes down through the spillway into the bedrock below and post tensioned reo into it
« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 08:27:00 AM by Rumpig »
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Offline Bird

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #85 on: February 03, 2019, 08:26:48 AM »
Quote from: Spada
Its usually the tv "reporters in raincoats" that hype the crap out of everything.

Also with the news in recent times, there always has to be someone "LIVE ON SCENE" they cross to ... and usually theres nothing there to see... ??? just revolving the same 10 seconds of footage
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Offline Jeepers Creepers

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #86 on: February 03, 2019, 08:39:00 AM »
i'd assume the concerns with Wivenhoe were real.... it wasn't that long ago really (about 20 years maybe) that they discovered the dam wall wasn't properly anchored to the bedrock below, and that if some of the earth started washing away beside it that the entire wall could possibly turn sideways. From what i was told (by a family member engineer involved with it)  they ended up drilling holes down through the spillway into the bedrock below and post tensioned reo into it

Geez, that was clever by the original builders.
I guess that happens when you run with the cheapest quote.
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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #87 on: February 03, 2019, 08:52:48 AM »
A grazier in a helicopter has rescued four tourists trapped in a car as the flood crisis gripping north Queensland intensifies.

The two Swiss and two German tourists are back on dry land after the private helicopter plucked them from floodwater near Middleton on Saturday.



https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/grazier-rescues-four-trapped-tourists-as-queensland-s-floods-worsen-20190202-p50vai.html

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Offline Pete79

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #88 on: February 03, 2019, 08:53:40 AM »
Geez, that was clever by the original builders.
I guess that happens when you run with the cheapest quote.
Pretty safe bet that a politician would have promised they would stop all floods for ever after the 1974 event.

Offline Jeepers Creepers

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #89 on: February 03, 2019, 09:49:34 AM »
"The monsoonal deluge has been declared a catastrophe by the Insurance Council of Australia, with losses estimated at $16.7 million and the worst yet to come."

I bet the rejection letters will be ready before the claims even arrive on their desks.
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Offline Fizzie

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #90 on: February 03, 2019, 10:24:02 AM »
A grazier in a helicopter has rescued four tourists trapped in a car as the flood crisis gripping north Queensland intensifies.

The two Swiss and two German tourists are back on dry land after the private helicopter plucked them from floodwater near Middleton on Saturday.

can't quite make it out - Britz ???

Going to be an expensive trip for those 4 :'(
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Offline Spada

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #91 on: February 03, 2019, 10:29:50 AM »
Post deleted so as not to cause unnecessary fear anxiety to those already affected. Thanks Rowlie for adding a different perspective (although a different one to my personal experience).
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 08:08:46 AM by Spada »
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Offline rockrat

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #92 on: February 03, 2019, 11:35:03 AM »
some insurance companies are experts at dancing around the fine print.......will it be classed as flood" or "storm water run off?
I suspect there will be lots of reports of people believing they are covered, and insurance companies believing they are not.
So far my house is ok, but at least my insurer - Westpac - reached out via text on Friday afternoon stating “if you are affected by the impending flood and need to make a claim, please call us”.
I know a civil engineer that regularly does work for insurers and their position is “if there is any doubt go in favour of the insured”. They don’t want to go to court and by and apparently the courts tend to rule against them if there is even the smallest doubt.

I guess time will tell but hopefully the rain stops and the river doesn’t rise too much higher.

And to all th Swaggers up there, good luck and most importantly stay safe.

Offline rockrat

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #93 on: February 03, 2019, 02:31:47 PM »
Just spoke to my old neighbour again. Unfortunately his house has flooded and so it is almost certain that my place has gone under too. :'(

Offline Rowlie

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #94 on: February 03, 2019, 02:41:43 PM »
Uninformed comments about insurance companies does nothing but create fear and anxiety in the minds of people who might have been impacted by the disaster. With the possible exception of one insurer (who also sells groceries) I think you will find that all of them ceased differentiating between rainwater runoff and flood some years ago. The only other exception is in business policies where flood is still an option. I am confident the insurers will all be bending over backwards to do everything they can in what will be very difficult circumstances. Anyone who is in doubt or has signs of water damage no matter how severe should inform their insurer. The new asbestos is mould and insurers don't cover mould unless the event that caused it can be identified ergo water getting in under the house or a bit of dampness in a wall should be reported just in case. If it all goes away and dries out great but if not you can fall back on the report if you need to.
Good luck to everyone up north - we in the bottom end are thinking of you. If you are insured have confidence that you will be well looked after.

Offline rockrat

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #95 on: February 03, 2019, 03:07:51 PM »
Well said Rowlie. The last thing people need now is worrying whether or not their insurance will cover them. I’ve also heard that some p#$cks are looting from evacuated houses. I reckon the army personnel helping out should be armed with orders to fire off a few warning rounds if they see anyone looting. If that doesn’t work then just shoot the bast@#&s.

Offline Pete79

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Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #96 on: February 03, 2019, 07:32:53 PM »
Sad to hear about your place Rockrat.

This situation is really getting serious tonight. We’re thinking of everyone up there at the moment.

Quote
RISK TO LIFE AND PROPERTY

Dangerous and high velocity flows will occur in the Ross River Sunday night into Monday. Unprecedented areas of flooding will occur in Townsville. Expect access routes to be cut.

Conditions will change rapidly and continuously. Stay informed, look for updates and follow advice of emergency services.

IMPORTANT INFOMATION FROM TOWNSVILLE CITY COUNCIL:

Residents in many suburbs across Townsville are warned that they may experience flooding from rapid rises of the Ross River. This includes Rosslea, Hermit Park, Railway Estate, Townsville City, Oonoonba, Idalia, Cluden, West End, Rowes Bay, Garbutt, Aitkenvale, Cranbrook, Currajong, Mysterton, Pimlico, Mundingburra, Douglas, Annandale, Kirwan and Thuringowa Central and South Townsville areas.

Everyone in the above suburbs should ensure they move away from riverbanks and get to higher ground before 8.30pm Sunday night. Residents still in their homes in these suburbs should move to the highest ground in their dwelling before 8.30pm Sunday night.

A map of potential inundated properties will released shortly by Townsville City Council.

If you require evacuation assistance, contact SES on 132 500. For life-threatening emergencies call 000.

For more information listen to local radio, phone 1800 738 541 or visit Councils Emergency Management Dashboard disaster.townsville.qld.gov.au

Ross River:
The Ross River dam spillway gates may open to their full setting between the hours of 8.30pm Sunday night and 6am Monday. This setting would release up to 2000 cubic metres of water per second out of the dam.

The Ross River at Aplin Weir is currently at 2.96 metres (above the major flood level of 2.90 m) and rising. The river level will continue rising overnight Sunday into Monday.

Download zoomable map here; https://drive.google.com/file/d/1usclh2eqtdBW0vtEvafkQDWitIZIX-1d/view

« Last Edit: February 03, 2019, 07:37:26 PM by Pete79 »
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Offline rockrat

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #97 on: February 03, 2019, 08:01:39 PM »
Thanks Pete. Thankfully our tenants got out well before the flooding and now it is pretty much over to the insurance company.
In a slightly funny twist, the tenant had been asking if I would replace the carpets and I said no. Perhaps she has connections with a higher power.... ;D

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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #98 on: February 04, 2019, 12:36:18 AM »
Still raining as I type this, had at least 200mm+ so far Sunday night, mainly since 4pm, my 150mm rain gauge was on the verge of overflowing at 7.30pm, emptied into a bucket and will read it tomorrow with what falls for the rest of the night, the 250mm gauge will hopefully make it to 9am

BOM recently modified the estimate of the expected rainfall about 11pm, now predicting 450mm + over the dam catchment by 9am Monday, 300mm fell over dam between 2pm and 4pm.

Ergon conservative estimate, 15,000 properties without power at 10pm, mainly due to disconnection of suburbs because safety concerns from flooding.  Currently I'm one of the lucky ones with power and only rainwater runoff, street still has been 300mm under water for most of the night.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 12:37:59 AM by bkim »
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Re: Batten Down the Hatches Qld
« Reply #99 on: February 04, 2019, 07:27:19 AM »
With a bit of luck, going by the radar they may have dodged a fair bit more heavy rain today.. Wont help the poor buggers already under much though .
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