Author Topic: USA and guns  (Read 122542 times)

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Offline Cruiser 105Tvan

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2015, 08:01:38 PM »
This latest incident in California.
It's just a Religious crank not being any way tolerant in relation to a differing religious activity.
It's not terrorism, it's just extreme intolerance.

And Islam is supposed to be tolerant beyond belief.


Watch them make more of this than there really is.
It won't take them long.
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Offline MDS69

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2015, 08:31:02 PM »
With all the gun related murders in the US a mass shooting is more than 4 dead!!!

Also the gun trade is worth north of US$15b per year. There is no way they will get any sort of controls through.

Also why the need for fully automatic weapons. A true hunter wouldn't need one.

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2015, 08:34:25 PM »
Quote from: MDS6
A true hunter wouldn't need one.
depends what your hunting....
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Offline Pog

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2015, 09:03:41 PM »
depends what your hunting....

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Offline grafy82

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2015, 09:16:20 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I think America could definitely do with some gun control to make them a little harder to get hold of. Let's face it though, if you really want to kill someone, you will still easily find a gun. We have to realise just how messed up in the head someone has to be to actually get to the point where they are willing and committed to taking someones life. When they reach this point, the will get a gun illegally anyway. Mental health is the root cause, gun control is the knee jerk reaction. Though as I said, anything to make it that bit harder to get hold of a lethal weapon can only be a good thing with all the unstable types around.
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Offline Metters

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2015, 09:21:50 PM »
I overhauled and test fired dozens of ex Navy 20 mm Oerlikons at the Richmond RAAF base in the late 1960s.  I decided to see if I could find any information on them on the net today and could not believe my eyes when I found this.
http://www.guns.com/2013/04/17/the-oerlikon-cannon-the-legendary-20mm-kamikaze-killer/

It looks like the crazy Americans not only have squillions of hand held semi and fully automatic guns but there are 20 mm canons in private hands as well. 

Go down to the second comment by Alan Hayes then click on the short DVD above.  Four more DVDs will appear when that one finishes.  Click on the one titled "20 mm Vs engine".  I am assuming that is a home made single shot 20 mm.

I suppose if I look a little further I will find someone with a 30 mm Aden on the bonnet of his Jeep.  They are mad over there.

Offline J.R

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2015, 09:54:07 PM »
If you want a great laugh, look up "Jim Jefferies on US gun control".

Offline Jackdawg

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2015, 10:19:48 PM »
Problem with the Yanks is they have a double edged sword most other countries don't - fanatical rednecks, and fanatical redneck states with no desire to stop fanatical rednecks getting guns.

If they required them to have a full set of (real) teeth and a drug test before getting a gun, that would clean up half their gun violence  ;D

Offline feisty

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2015, 10:59:42 PM »
Don't get me wrong, I think America could definitely do with some gun control to make them a little harder to get hold of. Let's face it though, if you really want to kill someone, you will still easily find a gun. We have to realise just how messed up in the head someone has to be to actually get to the point where they are willing and committed to taking someones life. When they reach this point, the will get a gun illegally anyway. Mental health is the root cause, gun control is the knee jerk reaction. Though as I said, anything to make it that bit harder to get hold of a lethal weapon can only be a good thing with all the unstable types around.
I think we probably have as many people with mental health issues per capita as the US but at the end of the day it would be way harder for this type to gain access  to a firearm here.
I remember seeing a Mike Moore doco years ago where a bank was giving away guns if you signed up to a personal loan.
I can't see firearms reform happening no matter how much President Obama wants it to be his legacy. Tragically the situation will only get worse .
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Offline Bill

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2015, 05:29:32 AM »
I think we probably have as many people with mental health issues per capita as the US but at the end of the day it would be way harder for this type to gain access  to a firearm here.
I remember seeing a Mike Moore doco years ago where a bank was giving away guns if you signed up to a personal loan.
I can't see firearms reform happening no matter how much President Obama wants it to be his legacy. Tragically the situation will only get worse .
I remember the documentary and looked into it a bit further at the time.
Mike Moore left out two pieces of information.
1- Your money had to stay in the bank for 3 years with the bank kepping the intrest earned (to pay for the gun)
At the time of the report the intrest rate over the 3 years vs the price of the rifle, the bank made about $300.00 profit.
2 - Whomever took the bank up on the deal had to legally be able to own a rifle.
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« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 05:48:07 AM by Bill »
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Offline Julian Kaye

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2015, 06:27:44 AM »

 I've been following these posts with interest and boy, there is some twisted logic going on here. The simple and sad fact is that you could apply gun laws in the USA similar to Australia and you would make squat difference to the number of people killed by guns each year. The reason? The vast majority of firearm homicides are committed with ILLEGAL firearms! Mass shootings are great fodder for the media but every day in the USA dozens of people are shot during the commission of a crime with illegally obtained firearms. Quite simply, you will never solve the "gun problem" in the USA by disarming law abiding citizens.
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Offline Hewy54

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2015, 06:34:01 AM »
With 300,000,000 guns available it is east to obtain an illegal firearm. With less guns available it would be harder to steal them.
Just so glad that we live in Australia with some sensible gun control. I think the yanks have just got themselves into a situation with almost no way out.
After the Port Arthur massacre, little Johnny introduced some strict control and a buy back scheme. Since then I believe we have had NO similar incident.

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Offline MDS69

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2015, 06:55:55 AM »
I've been following these posts with interest and boy, there is some twisted logic going on here. The simple and sad fact is that you could apply gun laws in the USA similar to Australia and you would make squat difference to the number of people killed by guns each year. The reason? The vast majority of firearm homicides are committed with ILLEGAL firearms! Mass shootings are great fodder for the media but every day in the USA dozens of people are shot during the commission of a crime with illegally obtained firearms. Quite simply, you will never solve the "gun problem" in the USA by disarming law abiding citizens.

If the USA were to ban fully automatic weapons which seem to be what most of the mass shooting have involved and apply a buy back scheme then you will see a difference. A lot of these guns would be registered so the authorities would know where they are and could tell who has sold them back to the government. I think you would find some (OK a small minority) with non registered automatic guns would take the opportunity to legally dispose of the gun. You will never stop those intent with illegal tendencies who will keep unregistered and/or illegal guns and that applied to Australia as well.

Anyway it doesn't matter what we think or what our solutions are because it won't change the situation in America.

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2015, 07:31:16 AM »
The news this morning from the local Police at that latest massacre is that the guns were obtained legally! 
The problem in America is a lot more complicated. It is more of their mindset and how they are brought up.   Remember it is so hammered into them how good they are, how they are better than most of the rest of the world, how proud they should be to be American etc.  And how they think of themselves to be the sheriff for the rest of the world.  Having travelled a lot overseas and with groups of Americans who are mostly very nice and friendly people, like us, it always amused me how little they know of the rest of the world.  I got asked questions about Australia like, do we have pineapples, do we have bananas, do we have shopping centres?  And they have great difficulty in understanding our sense of humour or if anyone is having a go at them.  Very funny.  The American way of life is largely different from the rest of the world. The spell English words differently, refuse to go metric etc.  (Yet most I have spoken to about the metric system say they would love it.)  So how do you change their mindset about the right to carry guns and to use them?  Way to hard.   It is like trying to get us to stop using Myswag.  ;D   Americans are very proud people and will defend their way of life to the end.  Is that a bad thing?  They have saved us in times of war before, so we do need their friendship.  Maybe they need to be a little like us where we can laugh at ourselves 8)  and use Myswag to vent their points of view and annoyances  :cheers: (As long as it does not involve politics or religion  :angel:) Kevin
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Offline tk421

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2015, 07:34:27 AM »
One thing the gun control lobby want is background checks for all purchasers. You only have to get a background check if you buy from a licensed dealer. Got to a gun show but and there is no background check because it is considered a private purchase.

Just google image Texas Gun Show and see the kind of event this is. A warehouse full of guns for sale with no background checks.

From what I read (it may have changed since then ) the latest shooting occurred when someone had an argument, went home and came back fully armed and shot the party up. That is not the behaviour of a normally adjusted person
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Offline tk421

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2015, 07:37:40 AM »
The news this morning from the local Police at that latest massacre is that the guns were obtained legally! 
The problem in America is a lot more complicated. It is more of their mindset and how they are brought up.   Remember it is so hammered into them how good they are, how they are better than most of the rest of the world, how proud they should be to be American etc.  And how they think of themselves to be the sheriff for the rest of the world.  Having travelled a lot overseas and with groups of Americans who are mostly very nice and friendly people, like us, it always amused me how little they know of the rest of the world.  I got asked questions about Australia like, do we have pineapples, do we have bananas, do we have shopping centres?  And they have great difficulty in understanding our sense of humour or if anyone is having a go at them.  Very funny.
I met some Americans in the UK (middle class, well educated) on a two week holiday who had brought all there own food for a two week stay because they'd heard the English are Squirrels and they didn't want to eat squirrel. Mind blown!
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Offline Fizzie

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2015, 09:27:58 AM »
Concerning US gun homicides - I have previously seen figures that something like 80% of them involve young (<~30) coloured (afro-, hispanic & asian) men, involved with gangs & / or drugs, in the biggest 10 or so cities.
The map of shootings in Chicago probably says it all with masses of shootings in a few suburbs - I'll take a stab that those particular suburbs are NOT your typical mid- or upper-class WASP neighbourhoods.

It's a bit like the figures mentioned earlier for Australia with about 30 gun homicides a year - how many of those involve bikies & / or drugs - 20+?

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Offline wilson79

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #42 on: December 04, 2015, 09:44:30 AM »
America doesn't have a gun problem, it has an enormous mental health problem.

All the more reasons why it should be harder for them to get a gun!!!
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Offline wilson79

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #43 on: December 04, 2015, 09:47:22 AM »
I just don't understand why the U.S are so passionate about there automatic weapons? why do you need one? they say for "Hunting" it is no sport shooting an animal with an automatic weapon, surely its more challenging with a single shot gun..

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Offline Bird

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #44 on: December 04, 2015, 09:52:51 AM »
If you want a great laugh, look up "Jim Jefferies on US gun control".
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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #45 on: December 04, 2015, 09:55:03 AM »
I just don't understand why the U.S are so passionate about there automatic weapons? why do you need one? they say for "Hunting" it is no sport shooting an animal with an automatic weapon, surely its more challenging with a single shot gun..

They don't need one. It's got nothing to do with needing or even wanting one. Excuses are made to justify owning one, solely on the fact that 'It's their rights to own one, and no one is taking those rights away.'
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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #46 on: December 04, 2015, 09:58:55 AM »
Why is it that many get so emotive with guns?

I don't personnaly have a gun but at times when travelling remotely have thought
it would be a good idea to own one.

Regrading the guns in circulation figures compared to the gun killings, what about
knives, it would be interesting to see the figures of deaths resulting from knife wounds
yet there is nothing said about removing knives from the population?

Yes if a gun is handy and someone wants to kill someone they may use it, same could be
said for knives too.

I would also add that these days when wondering around the city late at night I'm more
worried about a knife attack than getting shot!
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Offline Homer_Jay

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2015, 10:22:17 AM »
They don't need one. It's got nothing to do with needing or even wanting one. Excuses are made to justify owning one, solely on the fact that 'It's their rights to own one, and no one is taking those rights away.'

Lets look at it from a different perspective (knowing you are into cars).

It is no different to saying why does someone 'need' a 500 HP street car? ....They don't need one. It's got nothing to do with needing or even wanting one. Excuses are made to justify owning one, solely on the fact that 'It's their rights to own one, and no one is taking those rights away.' (to use your words). More people are killed by idiots on the road each year than we have ever had though gun related deaths.
What if they forced us all to drive a 'Prius' so that we can stop the road deaths?

Don't get me wrong, I love fast cars. I love guns. Would I own a Semi Auto if I could? Yes. Do I really NEED any of this? NO
If they took away everything in life that we didn't 'need' we wouldn't be left with much.

I do 100% agree that the US needs to toughen up on their laws a bit. Not to actually ban guns, just to make their licensing system a bit tougher to try and weed out some of the nuts. And to make their gun safety a bit more of a priority to avoid some of the accidental shootings, that we don't see here in Australia (ie kid finds dads gun and blows his head off playing with it).
If the nuts wants to shoot someone/blow them up, whatever, they will still do it, it just may be a little harder.

And anyone who thinks Australia is such a safe place because of the gun buy back, there is more guns in circulation now than there ever was prior to the buy back. It is actually a hobby that many new people are taking up.


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Offline tk421

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #48 on: December 04, 2015, 10:32:47 AM »
I just don't understand why the U.S are so passionate about there automatic weapons? why do you need one? they say for "Hunting" it is no sport shooting an animal with an automatic weapon, surely its more challenging with a single shot gun..
Or Armour piercing rounds? The deer are wearing bullet proof vests are they?

The UK banned automatic weapons and handguns after Dunblane. Even the 5 cartridge pump action shotguns had to be altered to take a max of 3 cartridges. The reason - you don't need an automatic rifle to shoot animals.


Why is it that many get so emotive with guns?

I don't personnaly have a gun but at times when travelling remotely have thought
it would be a good idea to own one.

Regrading the guns in circulation figures compared to the gun killings, what about
knives, it would be interesting to see the figures of deaths resulting from knife wounds
yet there is nothing said about removing knives from the population?

Yes if a gun is handy and someone wants to kill someone they may use it, same could be
said for knives too.

I would also add that these days when wondering around the city late at night I'm more
worried about a knife attack than getting shot!


For the reason above, knife crime is a big issue in the UK, but the reason why the  majority of cops wear stab vests rather than bullet proof vests.

Way more die than from knives in the US:
US homicide data 2014 from the FBI  https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls:

Total Homicides: 11,961
Firearms: 8124 (68%)
Knives 1567 (13%)
Blunt object: 435 (4%)
Hands fist feet: 660 (6%)
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Offline austastar

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Re: USA and guns
« Reply #49 on: December 04, 2015, 10:37:17 AM »
Hi,
   Perhaps "the right to bear arms" should be the right to bear the arms of the year the legislation was made law.

Flintlocks at dawn Pardner! "

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