Any truth in this?

[Ratbag]

Gidday SJ

Fully agree Ratbag.
Sent from .................

Fascinating subject, materials science. I have been following the tremendous advances in a whole range of areas of this since the early 1970s (in a dilatory way).

Have you ever come across a book called "Cat's Paws and Catapults" by Steven Vogel that explores the differences in how Nature and humans tackle the same "engineering" problems? It makes for a good read, IMO. Not too heavy, but enough depth to make it interesting. Particularly explores composites in nature - like fingernails and stuff .

[scarps]

Hey ratbag, that looks like a great read. Have ordered a copy. Thnx

[Ratbag]

Gidday Scarps

Hey ratbag, that looks like a great read. Have ordered a copy. Thnx

You're more than welcome, mate. I have enormous respect for all the "popularisers" of science. It takes a certain skill and talent  both to understand the thing in the first place, then to communicate it to us all in comprehensible terms. While I have a little science education at university level (among a whole lot of other things ... ), I certainly don't lay any claim at all to being anything special in this regard, but I do read widely.

Glad that you think it will appeal to you ...  .

I am always very aware of the fact that the very first chronometer was made by a journeyman carpenter who didn't really trust metals (John Harrison). He made a clock for the local church with a going train made entirely from wood that was taken out of service for maintenance for the first time in 1884, some 122 years after it was built! It is still running to this day, to the best of my knowledge (see "Longitude" by Dava Sobel). No one has any kind of monopoly on knowledge, even in their own field of specialisation ...

[bluejay]

so where does this all leave us??? what must we have on this saga to be compliant /lawfull and above all safe .should i get the drag chains from the D10 and the shackles from a drag line at moura mine site?

[Ratbag]

Gidday BJ

I've been in one of those while it was 'walking around'. Fantastic!

It seems to me that one's trailer and coupling has to comply with whatever standards applied at the time of manufacture. IOW, don't replace rated shackles with anything but another one of the same rating as originally supplied. Ditto for anything else involved.

Just like modifying a car to which the ADRs apply. You have to continue to comply with the ADRs that applied to that particular make/model when it got its compliance plate.

IMHO, doing the above would give one a reasonably arguable case at law, if one were to be dudded by the boys and girls in blue.

[gordo350]

I don't want to prolong this argument but I disagree with that statement.  I think if it is within your budget and capabilities to update your safety compliance then you should.  $10 to replace your paper clips is not a big ask

[Ratbag]

That's fine, Gordo ...

But you are disagreeing with something that I certainly have not said.

What I did say was:

It seems to me that one's trailer and coupling has to comply with whatever standards applied at the time of manufacture. IOW, don't replace rated shackles with anything but another one of the same rating as originally supplied. Ditto for anything else involved.

IOW, that one should comply with the laws that apply to one's vehicle. If one chooses to do so, then one can always upgrade whatever something is to something better, but you had better be very certain that you are allowed to do that by the law and your insurers as well! It may seem counter-intuitive, but either the law or your insurer may have objections to what one is proposing to do, even though it appears to be an "upgrade" in one's own eyes.

As merely one very simple example:

The standard tyres on my car are OEM 6.5x16" alloy rims with 215/60 16 tyres. The placard states "95H" load/speed  rating.

 I have spoken to my insurer about rims and tyres. They do not have a problem with me reducing the speed rating by one notch. They do not have a problem with me fitting 215/65 16" tyres. They have a huge problem with me fitting non-OEM rims, whether alloy or not. They also have a huge problem with me fitting 225/55 16" or 225/60 16" tyres. For "huge problem" substitute the words "I have just voided my insurance policy, including third party property damage".

OTOH, the law (ADRs) couldn't give a fig about non-OEM rims, as long as they are no bigger or smaller than the largest/smallest fitted as OEM for my make and model. It also has a problem with me fitting 215/65 16"; but not with me fitting 225/55 16" or 225/60 16" tyres. The law also allows me to cut the speed rating back a notch, as long as it equals or exceeds a 180 kmh speed rating (IIRC), but will not allow me to fit lower load rating tyres under any circumstances.

See how quickly these things can get complicated?

My advice is to check ALL proposed modifications from stock with both one's motor registration department, and one's insurer. Preferably get such approval as is indicated in writing, otherwise it isn't worth the paper it's not written on ... This applies equally to both cars and trailers.

[gordo350]

I give up

[Ratbag]

Gordo, no need to"give up".

Just try to understand that none of this stuff is simple !

[D4D]

I give up

I don't blame you, from shackles to tyres to mining, what next particle physics?

[Symon]

I give up

Mate just let it slide.  He's right in his own mind, that's all that matters apparently.

[D4D]

He's right in his own mind, that's all that matters.

Better not get him started on 12V then

[Ratbag]

Quite happy to discuss QED (QM) or Relativity, but hardly seems to be on topic.

[Ratbag]

D4D, Symon

I don't know why you both have such a problem dealing with the fact that the ADRs, ASs and other legislative instruments govern what is permissible with cars, trailers, buses, trucks, etc; and that insurance companies have their own rules; then the various police forces have own their interpretation/s of what those laws mean (usually pretty basic, and often wrong, IME). Then there are the interpretations courts put on things; then various State and Federal governments legislate again, extending or clarifying laws in the light of all these things and more. So the cycle continues ...

If you think that this leads to a consistent and sensible set of rules, good luck.

What it does lead to is a set of relevant dates, as they are generally known legally (whether applying to Superannuation laws, or any other, such as motor vehicles and the like). What one is legally obliged to do is to keep one's vehicle in a roadworthy condition, and this requires one to ensure that it complies with the laws pertaining under the rules that applied at the relevant date that is applicable to the compliance plate affixed to the vehicle, be it a car, light truck, trailer, or anything else that comes under the governing laws and regulations made under those laws.

The laws and regulations are what they are. We all need to be mindful of what they require, and abide by that. Venturing outside of those requirements, even if it seems to be "better" can be fraught, which is why I implore people to check with the authorities and their insurer/s (and not take my word for it!). They make the final decisions, and better to get it out of the way before anything unfortunate occurs than try to argue the toss in court after the event. I always check with both the authorities and (specially) my insurers about anything and everything. This leads to far fewer problems in the long run.

br to you both, RB.

[jeeps]

TJM at Underwood has 0.75, 1.5 and 2t stamped rated shackles if you're looking for some.

cheers