Author Topic: Camper Cetec electrics  (Read 1714 times)

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Offline timflew

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Camper Cetec electrics
« on: February 28, 2013, 11:50:19 PM »
I recently took ownership of a Flamingo camper. I have been exploring the electrics of it and am in the process of installing a battery.  I have been told that the Cetec unit has a chargeing system in it and picks up the power through the #2 connector pin. Is this a standard thing or do I have to do some mods ? I was going to run a Anderson line to it for charging. I saw a van repairer today and he told me the Anderson line is for running the fridge which draws more current and to leave the charging to the Cetec through the #2 pin.
Also, I am a bit curious about the piezo igniter on the cooker doesn't work. Is this a 12 volt thing? I seem to have more lines coming away from the Cetec on the neg side than the pos side. I have no idea where these wires go to except the light s. Does someone know?
Does the fridge work from the battery or is it set to run on 12 volts only through the #2 pin as it seems to not budge - gas and 240v is OK
If the Cetec charger is running and also the Anderson line charging the battery is this OK or do I need to isolate one or the other.

Tim

Offline murmar

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2013, 07:48:19 AM »
Hi Tim,

I can't offer any help on re the Cetec, sorry.

Is the piezo igniter one of the single click devices (like on BBQs) or is it a switch that provides a series of click clicks?

Offline whatsa

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2013, 08:04:51 AM »
Heres a manual for it....

http://caravansplus.com.au/pdf/ST-II%20User%20Manual.pdf

This should have all you need for the hookup.
( take note of the battery types they suggest as the charger is a bit on the low side and not for calciums)
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Offline MDSimpson

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2013, 08:53:07 AM »
The Piezo in my Flamingo is the series of clicks, not the single click like on some BBQ's. Yes, it will require either 240v power, or a battery.
Most hardware in the Jayco's are 12v, with the exception of the microwave and the fridge, when 240v is selected. So if you have it plugged into 240v and something is not working, either the Cetec is unplugged, or the item is broken. Check in the space behind the Cetec unit, it should be plugged into a power point. Also, for what its worth, I relocated my battery to this spot..
I can check the pins of the Cetec charging on the weekend for you, if it stops raining...

As for Charging on the road, I ran some 6B&S cable from an Anderson plug on the drawbar, into the battery compartment, via a 30amp circuit breaker, this is sufficient to charge on the road. I will be looking at running another set of cables to run the fridge form the car, whilst on the road too.

One last point, if you have the van plugged into 240v, the Cetec is on and working, and you plug the Anderson into the car, it will charge the battery in the car, albeit slowly as the Cetec is a trickle charger, but it works. I have dual batteries in the car, so it can charge the Aux battery while camping on 240v.
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Offline murmar

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2013, 08:53:23 AM »
Interesting manual Whatsa. Good cct diags too :)

Offline timflew

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2013, 08:02:27 PM »
Thanks for the replies. The piezo igniter is a powered type but pushing the switch does nothing. My question is does it use 12 volts or 240 volts?
The circuit diagram, which I have thanks, is for the Cetec but I would like to know the wiring of the cabin. There are wires leaving the Cetec and disappear into the wall; and they are all the same colour. Maybe it is to confuse me.
Another question is about the power line through the pin #2 for 12 volts: If the pin is for 'reversing' then it would only be on when the tug is put into reverse gear, isn't that right?
Mark, you have a flamingo so it would be the same as mine: do you know where all your wires are for? I only know the lighting wires (which were in the wrong line from the Cetec and I changed to the one labelled 'lights'. Also, there are more wires from the neg side; is this right?

Offline Highway_Dreams_Around_Oz

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2013, 08:12:48 PM »
hi, i just asked a very similar question.

on mine, L1 to L4 terminals (loads) are used for lights, aux cig socket, tv booster & peizo clicker for stove (not labelled correctly but took fuses out one by one and worked out what stopped working, lol). L5 + is blank however the negative pin is used to feed in the negative from the trailer plug )as per setec manual) by the look of yours it may the L3 - terminal as you have nothing conected the L3 +. The positive trailer plug feed is connected to the aux + in (same row as the negative load terminals).
The other 2 terminals are for the van battery wired via the isolation switch.

i too want to know what pin the setec gets its charge feed when towing.
cheers
« Last Edit: March 01, 2013, 08:14:49 PM by Highway_Dreams_Around_Oz »
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Offline timflew

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2013, 10:30:44 PM »
Hey there, Highway Dreams, Have you got the answer yet? I tried running my camper fridge on 12 volts from my tug through the 7 pin cable and didn't feel any difference in temp. I have yet to test positively whether I am getting 12 volts through the #2 pin.
No joy yet,
Tim

Offline GUTourer

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2013, 05:13:42 PM »
The piazzo (sp) is powered via 12V via the setec.

Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2013, 08:47:30 AM »
Had the piezo igniter on my Dove cooker stop working recently and it was a broken 12v wire to the connection of the spark generator at the back of the cooker. The problem was Jayco had left a fair amount of heavier 12V pos and neg feed wire with 2 bluepoint connectors (hanging out of a hole in the wall) and their weight bouncing around had eventually broken off one of the lighter stove connection wires which connect to them via the bluepoints.

Pain in the butt lying on you back in the cupboard to fix it but disconnecting the stove is no fun either but I had to do that later for a stove hinge cracking problem and then I fixed and secured it all to make it bulletproof. You can see the wire feed to the spark igniter box at the back of my stove here-
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=27441.msg426528#msg426528
« Last Edit: March 22, 2013, 08:58:15 AM by prodigyrf »
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Offline Footy Shorts Shane

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2013, 09:40:05 AM »
If your vehicle/s haven't had an aux feed wired into pin 2, then you won't have power to your fridge/setec etc until you reverse (that'e even if the reverse circuit is wired in to the socket). If it is, you'll soon know as it will pop a fuse, at the least. The wiring in the car needs to be modified to suit the trailer.

What was set up originally was a 6mm fused wire direct from the batt to pin 2 on the trailer socket. So, when you connect the trailer, you have 12 volt supply to fridge and a flat battery in the morning when you're ready to go.

Grab a batt isolator, 2 x circuit breakers, mandatory 6 B@S cable and a 50a Anderson plug. Do a search for dual batt systems on this forum, as there's 27 posts a week about them, and go hard. You don't need the 2nd battery in your vehicle for this set up to work.

IMO, running a 12v fridge and trying to charge a battery is a very big ask from an alternator, let alone through a dusty/dirty/corroded trailer plug and socket, via a 6mm wire.

Shane.
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Offline GeeTee

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2013, 12:58:46 PM »
Timflew, I'll leave others to tell you how 'very happy!' they are with all sorts of back-box gizmos in thier vehicles but you have already mentioned what you need: put simply, a nice big fat wire to feed power from your tow vehicle, an Anderson plug to connect it at the drawbar and a check of specs to see if you alternator can keep up with enough remaining capacity to charge whatever battery you choose to install, plus the fridge, plus the tow vehicle accessories. Your 3-way fridge is far more hungry than, say, an Engel, on 12V so charging/powering via the trailer lighting plug is little more than a waste of time.
Of course, a tradesman-like installation will include circuit breakers and some sort of isolating system, that could be as simple as a motorsport/marine-style battery switch under the towcar bonnet

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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2013, 09:40:06 PM »
An underbench  90-100L capacity 3 way fridge will pull 10Amps and on 12V the thermostat on your fridge won't regulate that at all. ie it runs flat out on 12V and clearly your alternator must have that spare capacity and you need to shut the fridge off from the tug battery the moment you stop. That's where a fridge switch comes in as the simplest option (replaces the connector block behind the fridge vent)

Also you'll find 8 B&S will travel through a 7 way round plug and do the job quite satisfactorily if you slightly enlarge the brass connectors (drill out No2 connectors on plug and socket plus earth ) to accommodate that. It doesn't need much widening to allow simple one plug connection and you can stick with the Setec which has been designed for Oz conditions to take very variable outback power and gennys of course.

Alternatively the sky's the limit with 6B&S, Andersons, yada, yada......?
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2013, 10:03:48 PM »
Oh and now that Curious has resolved the issue of running an earth back to the battery-
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=28589.0

I will earth my 8B&S suitably to the chassis inside the boot and cut out approx 25% of the wiring run to the fridge (my Dove fridge is at the rear of the camper) Now since I've already run the earth back to the battery and don't have that earth cable sensor, I'll connect that to the chassis earth point as well.

In the case of ECU earth sensing you could easily double up the chassis earth from the trailer socket by soldering another wire onto it creating a 'Y' for double bolted earthing insurance. Basically the KISS principle and not chucking good equipment away or wasting copper.
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline RebsWA

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2013, 10:40:39 PM »
An underbench  90-100L capacity 3 way fridge will pull 10Amps...............
I think you will find its more like 15amps.
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2013, 12:56:11 AM »
I think you will find its more like 15amps.


Seems we're both right depending on the underbench model you have.
My Dometic 90Litre RM2350- Height 766mm= 10.4Amps
but Dometic 90L RM2355-H 766mm= 14.6A
Thetford 93L N304- H770= 9.4A
and then you jump up to Dometic 120L and Thetford 128L at 14.6A and 12.1A respectively but they're 948mm and 937mm high which is higher than a 900mm standard benchtop so no go. Consequently you will need to check the maxm current draw of your particular 3 way and treat accordingly.

The other important point to note about absorption fridges is their specific flue requirements as depicted here-
http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/index.php?cPath=991_28_520_189_249

Now my 03 Dove has the Dometic RM2350 fitted with this vent kit-
http://caravansplus.com.au/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=9541
which seems right but perhaps the higher rated RM2355 at 14.6A would be more suitable for the tropics/hot weather without the need for any additional fan assistance whereas the lesser rated RM2350 might need it. I don't know because I haven't recorded the fridge temp in extreme hot weather yet or compared the two. Anyone?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2013, 01:09:49 AM by prodigyrf »
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Offline KingBilly

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2013, 05:34:13 AM »
Also you'll find 8 B&S will travel through a 7 way round plug and do the job quite satisfactorily if you slightly enlarge the brass connectors (drill out No2 connectors on plug and socket plus earth ) to accommodate that.

IMHO it would be easier to reduce the cable size by a strand or two to get the right fit.  No issues with doing this as it won't cause any voltage loss (which is caused by cable being too small for the required distance).

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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2013, 09:23:25 AM »
IMHO it would be easier to reduce the cable size by a strand or two to get the right fit.  No issues with doing this as it won't cause any voltage loss (which is caused by cable being too small for the required distance).

You're probably right but bear in mind the connection posts on a 7 way large round are 7mm dia with 4mm dia holes and 8B&S is is nominally 3.7mm dia while AWG 8 is 3.25mm dia which is all very well tightly moulded in insulation but *B&S struggles to squueze into that 4mm dia hole whereaswith a slight drill outwith plenty of meat left and and bobsyeruncle.  Bear in mind the earth will have to carry not just the fridge but any extra battery charging as well as the trailer lights.

A reminder here that my Dometic RM2350 manual specifies at least 6mm2 wire feed but US made Jayco actually wire it with AWG10 which is 5.26mm2 and really should have used the next size up AWG8 at 8.3mm2 and it would easily fit their CURT plugs but you know how it is. 8B&S is nominally 7.7mm2 and can fit our our 7 way large round plugs so that's a KISS principle solution for mine. Some like it bigger is best naturally.
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Offline MDSimpson

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2013, 05:32:31 PM »
Well I'll be buggered. I just tried to trace the fridge cables in my camper, what I found was really, strange, unbelievable, you name it.
There were two wires coming out of the fridge, around the back on the camper, inside the channels for the winder system, around the back.
They dive into the floor, this is where I lost them, so i started at the other end, from the setec back. They jump into the wall, then down, I guess out of the floor.
Under the camper is a small piece of checker plate set to cover the wires. ALL the wiring seem to go into a screw joiner, not what I was expecting at all, no wonder the damn things are hard to trace.
New runs of cables coming up...

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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2013, 09:35:00 PM »
Yes playing with Jayco wiring you do get the impression it's a case of- Hang about a bit, we've built the bloody thing to our exacting specifications and the sparky has forgotten to wire up the 12volt  ???
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Offline MDSimpson

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2013, 05:49:01 AM »
I agree, what is the point of individual fuses if the wiring is all strung together anyway.
While trying to trace the fridge wires, I had unplugged them from the fridge and connected a multi meter, removing each fuse, watching until the volts dropped, but they didn't, so there is no fuse for the fridge, at all....
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Offline prodigyrf

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2013, 07:53:34 AM »
"so there is no fuse for the fridge at all'

Correct because the positive feed runs direct from the tug battery to the fridge and also to charge any camper battery, in which case you have to have a suitable circuit breaker or fuse at the tug battery(in my case 20A CB because my fridge only pulls just over 10A recall) Now bear in mind the clearance, brake lights and electric brakes have their own positive feeds but ALL will earth back through the same earth, but nowhere on the camper are any of the earth return wires earthed to the chassis, presumably because of the 240V system. Nothing else will be(or shouldn't be) running off the 12V while travelling and whilst you could run a voltage sensing relay(VSR) to prevent the tug battery going flat with the high draw of the fridge when stopped, the simplest solution is a Fridge Switch to replace the fridge connection terminal block on the floor behind the vent. That's where auto yellow spade terminals to the Fridge Switch will accommodate the 8B&S feed wires whereas 6B&S will be more problematic in that regard (Jaycar sell large terminal blocks that would suit and then a Fridge Switch after that with lesser gauge wire if you preferred)



 
There's no Great Evil conspiracy against consumers within engineering, manufacturing and supply. Just the many tradeoffs incurred to satisfy diverse tastes, priorities and wallets. But first comes all the insatiable Gummint eggsperts, nanny-staters and usual suspects.

Offline MDSimpson

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2013, 08:14:58 AM »
RF, when I get home tonight, I will be running 8B&S twin core from the house battery via 20Amp CB (or fuse) directly to the fridge.
Having an isolator in the tug with dual batteries and a voltage booster, there should be no problem.
Thus eliminating the Jayco wiring for the fridge, and I will also disconnect the PIN2 on the trailer plug..

This wiring SHOULD only be used when the 12v switch is on, on the fridge, correct?
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Offline RebsWA

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2013, 10:12:20 AM »
I agree, what is the point of individual fuses if the wiring is all strung together anyway.
While trying to trace the fridge wires, I had unplugged them from the fridge and connected a multi meter, removing each fuse, watching until the volts dropped, but they didn't, so there is no fuse for the fridge, at all....
I got a recall notice from jayco around october 2009 saying they had ommitted the fridge fuse for whatever reason.
But I had already fitted a fuse when I rewired the fridge to make it work on 12v.
Seems this fuse omission happened over a number of years.

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Offline MDSimpson

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Re: Camper Cetec electrics
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2013, 10:24:13 AM »
I'll have a look for the recall, but too late now I'd guess. Especially since I have removed their fridge wiring.
Hmm, I wonder if I could reuse the cables for a dual cig socket outside (fused of course)....
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