Author Topic: NSW Fires  (Read 12966 times)

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Offline edz

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #100 on: November 09, 2019, 08:54:56 AM »
Hopefully there is some miss information due to no access to the area and these two places are still standing    .. Just lifted this from a FB site
quote ::
 Mathew Doherty  2 hrs ago :
 "  Just spoke to my mum - the Coaching Station and houses opposite are fine. The Canoe Centre is still standing, just the front fences that burnt down. These are first hand reports." ..
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 09:04:38 AM by edz »
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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #101 on: November 09, 2019, 09:09:26 AM »
Hopefully there is some miss information due to no access to the area .. Just lifted this from a FB site
quote ::
 Mathew Doherty  2 hrs ago :
 "  Just spoke to my mum - the Coaching Station and houses opposite are fine. The Canoe Centre is still standing, just the front fences that burnt down. These are first hand reports." ..
I believe the shop and residence of the Canoe centre has not been impacted, I can not confirm the coaching stations condition.
Our 4wd club has rfs volunteers and are working in the area, they will inform us with good news hopefully.
Our clubs last president was evacuated at 3am this morning from Kangaroo Crk.
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Offline Paddler Ed

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #102 on: November 09, 2019, 09:24:28 AM »
I think some reports might be ambiguous for a while, but theres some coverage on the ABC via twitter:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-09/emergency-level-fires-burn-through-nsw-qld-live-blog/11688594

Offline Hairs

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #103 on: November 09, 2019, 12:53:45 PM »
Just got this from one of our members who is the Glenugie RFS Captain.

"I was at the nymboyda fire over night, the canoe centre has lost lots of timber fence, 1 shed where they store canoes, 1 shipping container with canoe stuff stored.
The office house is ok, the cabins are ok but trees and grass are all burnt.
A number of dwellings were lost in the town and some sheds and some ( an unknown number ) of houses on nearby farms were lost.
The coaching station was not impacted by fire"


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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #104 on: November 09, 2019, 01:19:27 PM »
Here is a video taken by residents evacuating yesterday evening.

At the 19 sec mark in the video is the entrance to the canoe centre.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1192767319757357056

For those who attended the National meet at Nymboida, you might remember Dave who drove a white land rover defender?Well, they lost their house in the fire.There has been damage to the centre itself but no one really knows til the authorities allow residents back in.The Canoe centre committee have just told me there has been no loss of life that they are aware or heard of.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 01:32:56 PM by MarkGU »
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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #105 on: November 09, 2019, 01:40:23 PM »
Mates 94yr old old man refuses to leave his house at Laurieton... all the neighbours and his street have left...
stubbon old ****
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Offline McGirr

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #106 on: November 09, 2019, 04:52:28 PM »
Its heartbreaking for people loosing their house etc but surely in the future they must start looking at making these areas more fire proof with burn offs.

Mark
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 05:04:11 PM by McGirr »
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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #107 on: November 09, 2019, 05:01:57 PM »
WARNING.......EXTREME LANGUAGE.

This bloke is 100% correct.Its high time the shiny arse's in canberra and those water melon greens stepped aside and let the local councils,along with the local RFS maintain areas around towns with winter time burn off's.
https://www.facebook.com/paul.bailey.7777019/videos/2358051624306587/
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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #108 on: November 09, 2019, 05:06:41 PM »
WARNING.......EXTREME LANGUAGE.

This bloke is 100% correct.Its high time the shiny arse's in canberra and those water melon greens stepped aside and let the local councils,along with the local RFS maintain areas around towns with winter time burn off's.
https://www.facebook.com/paul.bailey.7777019/videos/2358051624306587/

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Offline Hairs

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #109 on: November 09, 2019, 05:12:42 PM »
Its heartbreaking for people losing their house etc but surely in the future they must start looking at making these areas more fire proof with burn offs.

Mark
I agree Mark.
This year we have received about 400m of rain, where as normaly it would be closer to 2000m.
We have a situation where people complain when there is the oppitunatey in winter, they are effected by the smoke.
I know RFS captains who can't believe the red tape involved in burning off,
I also have spoken NPWS employees who are dumb founded by the dicissions of their organisation.
Forestry are bound by regs and resources.
Then you have Green councilors, who some how hog tie councils.

 Al, chime in mate.
You have your views, cheers mate.
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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #110 on: November 09, 2019, 05:36:26 PM »
Quote from: Hairs
I know RFS captains who can't believe the red tape involved in burning off,
I remember it well... the excuses, the paperwork, the planning that goes into a planned hazard reduction only to be Shit canned by some office boy
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Offline MarkGU

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #111 on: November 09, 2019, 05:50:13 PM »
I remember it well... the excuses, the paperwork, the planning that goes into a planned hazard reduction only to be Shit canned by some office boy
Everything is stopped by the Greens.Time those airheads were considered dead and buried before the rest of the population is.
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Offline glenm64

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #112 on: November 09, 2019, 05:53:06 PM »
Yet when traditional owners do seasonal burns within their country they are praised for helping the ecology??
Go figure.
There's a big difference between kneeling down
......... and bending over.
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Offline Hairs

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #113 on: November 09, 2019, 05:58:09 PM »
I remember it well... the excuses, the paperwork, the planning that goes into a planned hazard reduction only to be Shit canned by some office boy
The pencil pushers, the green element has played their part, but it's this bloody correct world we have to live in these days.
You can't tell someone you have to deal with it, this what is going to happen.
And of cause, every numpty wants their 10 seconds of fame.
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Offline glenm64

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #114 on: November 09, 2019, 06:16:20 PM »
Here in WA we still do prescibed burns. I just dont understand why it isnt done in the east, especially seeing how much more vunerable you are.
Any hows, just hoping everyone stays safe, it looks like its going to be a long summer.
There's a big difference between kneeling down
......... and bending over.

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #115 on: November 09, 2019, 06:25:28 PM »
Here in WA we still do prescibed burns. I just dont understand why it isnt done in the east, especially seeing how much more vunerable you are.
Any hows, just hoping everyone stays safe, it looks like its going to be a long summer.
It is going to be a long Summer.
There is no forecast of rain for some time.
Clarence Valley has just gone to level 4 water restrictions.
Even tho our Dam is at 90%?
I believe this is due to infrastructure being damaged from fires.

 
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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #116 on: November 09, 2019, 06:39:42 PM »
Yet when traditional owners do seasonal burns within their country they are praised for helping the ecology??
Go figure.
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Offline Raym

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #117 on: November 09, 2019, 08:08:40 PM »
Everything is stopped by the Greens.Time those airheads were considered dead and buried before the rest of the population is.

Not so mate apparently it is the PM's fault, heard this while I was in the shed & just had to check. This is from Adam Bandt's twitter.

 "I’m deeply saddened by the loss of life. Hearts go out to all affected & to brave firefighters.

But words & concern are not enough.

The PM does not have the climate emergency under control.

Unless we lead a global effort to quit coal & cut pollution, more lives will be lost."

Amazing

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #118 on: November 09, 2019, 08:18:40 PM »
 Even if climate change is the cause of the fires what can we do to control, reduce and address the intensity of fires?

Reduce fuel loads will go along way.
I have attached a submission to the NSW parliament regarding the RFS operating model, now if you read beyond the pros and cons of the RFS you will get a valuable lesson on fuel loads.

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/submissions/58450/0090%20Mr%20Brian%20Williams.pdf



« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 08:23:03 PM by rags »

Offline alnjan

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #119 on: November 09, 2019, 09:45:01 PM »
I agree Mark.
This year we have received about 400m of rain, where as normaly it would be closer to 2000m.
We have a situation where people complain when there is the oppitunatey in winter, they are effected by the smoke.
I know RFS captains who can't believe the red tape involved in burning off,
I also have spoken NPWS employees who are dumb founded by the dicissions of their organisation.
Forestry are bound by regs and resources.
Then you have Green councilors, who some how hog tie councils.

 Al, chime in mate.
You have your views, cheers mate.



How times have changed.   My old man was on the family farm from 1930 till 1995 when he retired.   Back then the Volunteer Fireies was you and your neighbours helping one another.  when conditions were right ie no wind, good humidity etc the ridge lines were routinely burnt.  All cool burns low fuel and minimal fire damage done. 

The RFS then became more structured and no longer involved your neighbours.  If not an RFS member, you were not welcome.  That didn't go down well.  From 20-30 blokes at a fire to maybe 10. 

Now days to get a Prescribed Burn it is more a case to go through every reason not to burn and do ever other course of action to remove or reduce 'hazard' or fuel load.  As I say, it is more about ticking boxes not to burn. 

https://www.rfs.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/13322/Standards-for-Low-Intensity-Bush-Fire-Hazard-Reduction-Burning.pdf

or just look at second last page

CHECKLIST FOR LOW INTENSITY HAZARD
REDUCTION BURNING
PRIOR TO BURNING MAKE SURE YOU HAVE:
£ Obtained an environmental approval such as a Bush Fire Hazard Reduction Certificate
(See “Before You Light That Fire”)
£ Obtained a Fire Permit (See “Before You Light That Fire”)
£ Either :
? Selected the appropriate season and weather conditions having considered:
 Temperature
 Relative humidity
 Wind speed and direction
 Atmospheric stability
OR
? Contacted the RFS for a Forest Fire Danger Index (FFDI), determined your
fuel load, then cross checked with Table 1 to determine whether the chosen day is
suitable.
£ Made a map of burn site taking into consideration:
? Location of assets and control lines
? Direction of fire travel
? Areas of dry and moist fuel loads
? Most appropriate lighting patterns
? Placement of personnel during burn
 Safe escape routes
 Safety zones
£ Established control lines around the burn area including:
? Drainage structures if necessary
? Cleared areas under trees and around logs
£ Conducted a test burn
£ Notified all necessary parties:
? RFS (24 hours prior to burning, unless otherwise specified in your fire permit) or Fire
and Rescue NSW
? Neighbours (24 hours prior to burning, unless otherwise specified in your fire permit)
? RMS (if traffic control is necessary)
? Council (roads)
? Network provider for power lines
£ Checked to ensure it is not a Total Fire Ban day (See “Before You Light That Fire”)
£ Ensured that all personnel are familiar with details of the burn plan and adequately
prepared:
? Appropriate experience
? Protective clothing
? Food and water
? Awareness of safe burning procedures and first aid
£ Considered emergency procedures:
? Efficient communication system
? First Aid Kit
AT COMPLETION OF BURN MAKE SURE YOU HAVE:
£ Extinguished all necessary burning material
£ Returned the completion form from the Bush Fire Hazard Reduction Certificate

As for the BS that the Bushfires are a result of Climate Change, that is what it is.  BS.   We have a situation that is unprecedented.  We have had the weather (not climate) condition the same previously, nothing new there.   What we haven't had for the past 20 odd years is the lack of Fire Prevention Management.  20 years of fuel load is going to create bigger hotter bushfires.  Climate Change has SFA to do with it, poor management is the cause. 
« Last Edit: November 09, 2019, 09:48:14 PM by alnjan »
Cheers

Al and/or Jan

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #120 on: November 10, 2019, 07:23:53 AM »
Not so mate apparently it is the PM's fault, heard this while I was in the shed & just had to check. This is from Adam Bandt's twitter.

 "I’m deeply saddened by the loss of life. Hearts go out to all affected & to brave firefighters.

But words & concern are not enough.

The PM does not have the climate emergency under control.

Unless we lead a global effort to quit coal & cut pollution, more lives will be lost."

Amazing
'Nuff said.............
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Offline Craig Tomkinson

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #121 on: November 10, 2019, 07:37:05 AM »
You are spot on alnJan, The same thing happened to our Boreen Piont BFB started with locals farmers my dad was its leader oldest and by far the smartest man on fires in our area, we used old 135 and 35x ferges with carryalls and two 44s drum full of water or our 4wds as well, dad stepped down after many years then other farmers took on number one it ran for years and we never lost a house, there were no rules we just did what had to be done anybody that owed farms burnt off there timbered blocks and unstocked grass paddocks all the time through winter or in summer after rain and late at night not in the middle of the day, the rest of our district was forestry they were fantastic they burnt all the time as the ash made the timber grow and kept the fuel down, Then around the same time as you said the Government stepped in and wanted all of us volunteers have to get chain saw tickets and attend training sessions and be accredited on every bit of gear, it was bullShit all of us had cut timber all our lives and the gear we had to use we used every day on the farm, 90% of our members left in the first round and never helped at a fire again, All we said was make all the older one exempt and any new ones have to do the training, no they said it just stuffed nearly every BFB in our area, ours nearly shut the doors but I see its still going with just eough to make one crew, but the trouble is all the local knowage was gone when and how to burn al the tracks and nohow was left to townies that do not have a clue,and our forestry is now NPs that do not want to control burn now its just a time bomb waiting to for someone to light the fuse, After not being in the BFB for some time and selling our house at Cootharaba we moving to Cooroy I got a permit to burn a heap and asked about joining the local branch the number said I would have to do all the training again, I said what you have differant honda pumps and 4wds do they, no still the same just the rules,  Craig   
« Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 08:27:34 AM by Craig Tomkinson »
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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #122 on: November 10, 2019, 08:00:55 AM »
You are spot on alnJan, The same thing happened to our Boreen Piont BFB started with locals farmers my dad was its leader oldest and by far the smartest man on fires in our area, we used old 135 and 35x ferges with carryalls and two 44s drum full of water or our 4wds as well, dad stepped down after many years then other farmers took on number one it ran for years and we never lost a house, there were no rules we just did what had to be done anybody that owed farms burnt off there timbered blocks and unstocked grass paddocks all the time through winter or in summer after rain and late at night not in the middle of the day, the rest of our district was forestry they were fantastic they burnt all the time as the ash made the timber grow and kept the fuel down, Then around the same time as you said the Government stepped in and wanted all of us volunteers have to get chain saw tickets and attend training sessions and be accredited on every bit of gear, it was bullShit all of us had cut timber all our lives and the gear we had to use we used every day on the farm, 90% of our members left in the first round and never helped at a fire again, All we said was make all the older one exempt and any new ones have to do the training, no they said it just stuffed nearly every BFB in our area, ours nearly shut the doors but I see its still going with just eough to make one crew, but the trouble is all the local knowage was gone when and how to burn al the tracks and nohow was left to townies that do not have a clue,and our forestry is now NPs that do not want to control burn now its just a time bomb waiting to for someone to light the fuse, Craig
"Government stepped in and made all of us be qualified". Yep,typical OH& S bullsit !! .Offered my set of hands  to the RFS this morning to lend a hand in anyway they see fit,only to be told i would have to go thru all the training before donning on a coat.Didnt know you had to be qualified to help out a fellow human being or neighbour in emergency times.And they wonder why the cant get help when needed?
Oh,by the way............ I was general land rescue, CABA qualified, engine keeper & motor driver certified with 12 years as retained firefighter.What would i know  ::)
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Offline alnjan

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #123 on: November 10, 2019, 08:48:13 AM »
Even if climate change is the cause of the fires what can we do to control, reduce and address the intensity of fires?

Reduce fuel loads will go along way.
I have attached a submission to the NSW parliament regarding the RFS operating model, now if you read beyond the pros and cons of the RFS you will get a valuable lesson on fuel loads.

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/submissions/58450/0090%20Mr%20Brian%20Williams.pdf

That report pretty clearly spells it out.   The larger the fuel load the bigger the fire.  Unfortunately that is too simple and too straight forward for those that lack Commonsense to see or understand. 

I like a lot most of the Brigade I was in left for two reasons.  1/ we wanted to be RFS and do our job of keeping the Community safe by doing the Controlled Hazard Reduction Burns but never allowed and the only jobs was the odd call out to a car crash.  2/ Powers that be decided to close our Brigade, that was already covering two other Brigade areas due to lack of Volunteers and then expected us to join another Brigade that was predominantly a village Brigade and then really called on to do any thing as NSWFB attended any house fires. 

When you can't do what you joined for why be there just waiting for the inevitable Bushfire to come that you have always prevented. 


Cheers

Al and/or Jan

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Re: NSW Fires
« Reply #124 on: November 10, 2019, 12:19:09 PM »
Quote from: MarkGU
Yep,typical OH& S bullsit !! .Offered my set of hands  to the RFS this morning to lend a hand in anyway they see fit,only to be told i would have to go thru all the training before donning on a coat.Didnt know you had to be qualified to help out a fellow human being or neighbour in emergency times.And they wonder why the cant get help when needed?
Oh,by the way............ I was general land rescue, CABA qualified, engine keeper & motor driver certified with 12 years as retained firefighter.What would i know  ::)

The rules are there to save everyone = the new person, and the experienced.. As you'd know Shit can go bad real fast on the fire ground really fast.. The training is there to save most peoples arses - the experienced people who have to save the nuffies..

Its interesting that only when there are insane fires like this people wanna stick up their hands... We had people turning up in their droves - telling us they were members of this RFS station and had 20 yrs experience when they didnt know what an AWG branch was. quick phone call to Rosehill at the time would prove they were full of Shit. You dont want people like that out in the field. You also dont know how people will react in a really code brown situation... You don't let novices hit the field on fires like these, its just asking for problems.

The numbers of people turning up at stations just expecting to be given keys to the truck and some PJs would shock you
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