Real life costs of having someone is aged care

[Beachman]

Howdee,

I’m after some real life examples of what’s it’s costing to keep your loved ones in aged care. Reason is I’m currently having a debate with my Brother in Law. Story goes the BIL’s Father is in a high care nursing home and pays the majority of his pension as a fee. Not a problem as due to his health he can’t go on holidays etc. Also when he got divorced 30+ years a lived a life of wine, women and song, so basically has no assets.

But the debate is about our joint Mother in law as she is starting to suffer from dementia and will soon need full time care. Due to living a very simple life and her past husband investing extremely wisely when they were younger, she has a very good nest egg and is currently a self-funded retiree. 

My debate with the Brother in law is his Father had nothing, so the Government had to step in and pay the majority of his fees. But it’s my understanding that seeing our Mother in law has a good nest egg, this money will be used until it’s all gone, then the government would step in with ongoing costs.

Does anyone have any real life examples??

Thanks

PS: I now if any of the family members really want an inheritance then there is always the options for her to live with them. But I have to be honest and say it would put a huge amount of strain on any family/marriage because the dementia in one thing, but she is also turning into a very cranky old lady.  Cranky to the point where all the Grandchildren are scared of her.

[chester ver2.0]

It is not so much the cost or the govt stepping in it is more the level of care and comfort avaliable

For example you Mother in Law using her assets will be able to put herself or be placed in a private facility that is far more comfortable that you father in law is probably in

She would also have more options for the level of care e.g my in laws live in a village that has 3 levels of care

Self supporting villas (which is what they live in now)
Self supporting villas with a carer or helper that turns up once a day once a week or when required
Full care

Let me tell you as soon as i hit 55 im moving in there the place is like a resort

[edz]

Unfortunitely for us dad refused to sign a power of attourny, Always reckoned he'd do it when the time came, then it became to late as he was deemed unfit to sign anyway [ medical condition induced dementure, high care needed ], roll on nearly a year with my brother and I being treated like a ping pong ball with  hostpital and guardianship tribunal run arrounds.
Finaly gained joint guardianship with my brother and was able to have dad placed into a high care home .. He was assessed by Veterans affairs and the guardianship authority that with his savings,  the costs to us would be his entire aged  & Veterans TPI pension + about $300 per fortnight from his savings  .. So aprox  $700 + pw roughly from memory ... + any expences for activities [ bus trips, barber , shopping etc ] ..
We found that there was very very few vacancies in high care placement .. we had dads name down at every place arround our area that offered high care .. We were just lucky to have advanced along the waiting list over the months at one place and was next in line once a resident passed away ..
Not a nice feeling waiting for some one to pass away just so you can get their room for your loved one .. R.I.P. Pop .

[Beachman]

Thanks for the reply Chester and I also initially thought the same, but both people in question are in nice private facilities.

[Beachman]

Also thanks for the reply Edz and agree about the waiting list. The centre my Mother in law is in have already said that seeing she has been a resident in one  of their self-contained villas for a number of years, then she will be given priority. This also means that even if they don’t officially have a spot in high care then the time comes, they will create one.

But if we wanted to shop around for something different or cheaper, then we would be at the mercy of the waiting list.

[D4D]

I can't comment on the topic in question, however it has raised some interesting thinking regarding how we leave our affairs and plan for our future to handover control to our kid/s when we can not longer manage our own affairs.

[chester ver2.0]

Also thanks for the reply Edz and agree about the waiting list. The centre my Mother in law is in have already said that seeing she has been a resident in one  of their self-contained villas for a number of years, then she will be given priority. This also means that even if they don’t officially have a spot in high care then the time comes, they will create one.

But if we wanted to shop around for something different or cheaper, then we would be at the mercy of the waiting list.

No worries i will add the in lawa are i nthe same boat as they are current residents of the village they get first cut if high care is required

[McTavish]

Some good general information here...

http://www.myagedcare.gov.au/

[HEM19X]

My father went into aged care, he had sold his house so only had a few shares plus some Term Deposits.

The aged care facility asked for a BOND, that was held in trust for him... over the 1st 5 years they withdrew a small amount per month that would supplement the money coming from his aged pension. After 5 years that stopped.

We found that, with interest from the modest $ values of the TD's, plus pension, minus the monthly cost of the care, he was going backwards [funds were reducing] by approx. $300 per month.

I can provide more info if you wish, send me a PM but for us, it was well worth the money for full time care.

Regards

Hem

[Wortho]

I just moved my Dad from low care to high care and discovered that the rules changed on July 1 and that the Aged care fee's are now means tested.
I managed to get him into the new facility on June 30th so he just pays the basic daily fee ($46 a day I believe).
Things have got a little more complicated now from July 1 and it seems to me that you end up paying more.

More details;
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/money/planning/calculate-the-costs-when-its-time-to-go-into-care-20140711-zt4gm.html

http://www.australianageingagenda.com.au/2014/07/01/new-era-begins-aged-care/

Cheers

[Bullant4x4]

I would never put any of my direct family into age care, I would have home help/nurse.

Don't care if I had to sell my house to cover the cost. I would never do that to my family. I have done work in many of them, in my trade and after what I have seen, you never would!!!

[Beachman]

Hi Bullant,

I can fully understand where you are coming from with not wanting to put a parent in a high care nursing home, but sometimes we don’t have a choice. If my parents or Father in law were still alive and needed care we wouldn’t be having this conversation as it would be a pleasure having them live with us.

But with some dementia patents they live in denial about having any problem. Seeing she is in early stages her memory comes and goes, but now it’s going more often than it’s coming.  Up until now we have tried the home help, but she has either not let them into the house or purposely went out at the scheduled time.

As for living with us, we are talking about a lady who refuses to talk to her Grandchildren (aged 6 & 9) as in her eyes they are taking her daughters attention off her. When she does talk to them it’s never in a nice tone. The kids struggle with this as when the other Grandparents were still alive, they adored the kids.

My wife is in tears on a weekly basis as she rings and abuses her, but then 1 hour later rings to say she hasn’t spoken to her in a while and is everything okay.

So we are in a lose lose situation.

[chester ver2.0]

I would never put any of my direct family into age care, I would have home help/nurse.

Don't care if I had to sell my house to cover the cost. I would never do that to my family. I have done work in many of them, in my trade and after what I have seen, you never would!!!

Mate each to their own but sometimes care is an only option

[Bullant4x4]

Mate each to their own but sometimes care is an only option

I wasn't judging, just posting MHO

[austastar]

My wife is in tears on a weekly basis as she rings and abuses her, but then 1 hour later rings to say she hasn’t spoken to her in a while and is everything okay.

Hi,
   Yes this is very hard on family. Remember they are unwell and the old brain is misfiring and not functioning properly.
We have a similar problem with a friend with dementia. She lives in her own world, passes through reality for a few moments each day and confuses each with the other.
It is all very distressing, but not for her. She is totally oblivious to it all, and chatters on about all sorts of imagined events that happened earlier in the day that just did not occur.


She gets cross with the nursing staff for example for taking her glasses, and they are in her dressing gown pocket.


Some one 'stole' her favourite cup, it was rolled up in a towel in the back of the wardrobe.


Some one has taken all the bird seed - it is all over the floor of the cage.


So many examples of pure fantasy, and then she forgets it all.  Absolutely no recollection of all the post cards we sent her last year while were traveling. There they were on the shelf when we got back, but she had no memory of reading them.


Other friends may take her out for lunch - yet she hasn't seen 'them' for weeks by the afternoon.


So I guess what I'm saying is don't stress too much about the mental side of things (as hard as that can be) they are in a different world for a lot of the time and not much can be done about it. Compassionate care keeping them stimulated and some daily exercise and interesting activities may not seem to being registered, and you want to be reassured that this is happening, it just doesn't show as being appreciated any more. That is not reassuring if you care for their welfare.


So ride the highs and the lows with the fantasy world in mind, be a good listener and gently steer negative conversations back to happier times if you can.  It is hard to lose a loved one, either by unexpected death, or by their gradual departure from our world of reality.


Sincerely

[#jonesy]

My mother in law has managed a few homes and fee structures are all different.

As is the level of care, medical/ physical as well as " people"
Some are treated as numbers.

The idea of then living you sounds great until they become dependant on you for everything.
Could you feed, bathe and look after every need?  Is that the last memory you want of your loved ones?
If they get dementia, they turn into a completely different person.

[Bullant4x4]

Hey beachman, I wasn't and didn't mean any offense!

I see it (IMHO) as my mum wiped my bum when I couldn't and I will if I have to. My wife's great grand mother and her grandmother all died in the same house and the same room with family attending to every need. Australia is strong with nursing homes but different cultures, different views.

[Mik01]

sometimes the anger comes from frustration as they know something isn't right with them - it must be hard to take - ive seen it close up and shudder at the thought it might happen to me.

nothing you can do, nothing that can be said really

[Mace]

My gorgeous wife works in aged care.

Works with these circumstances every day.

You are correct from what you have said in your first post.

If there are any assets, they can be utilised / considered first when entering an aged care facility. If you have none, then you will get the basic care you require in a  facility, paid for by your pension.   If you have some, this can enable you to get into a better class of facility.

The problem arises due to what may be considered a better establishment varies from place to place. Supply and demand type stuff. So, if they live in a high demand area, options are limited because most places are full.

Talk to the providers, see what they offer. Get the best care you can afford.  Happy for you to PM me so SHMBO can reply.

[Beachman]

Hey beachman, I wasn't and didn't mean any offense!

I see it (IMHO) as my mum wiped my bum when I couldn't and I will if I have to. My wife's great grand mother and her grandmother all died in the same house and the same room with family attending to every need. Australia is strong with nursing homes but different cultures, different views.

Hi Bullant, no offense taken as I probably would have said the same thing years ago. When my Father was diagnosed with Cancer a couple of years ago his only request was to stay in his house as long as possible. So myself and my sister made sure that happened for about 12 months until we could no longer manage his pain, but the difference is he was grateful for the help.

The Mother in law is a whole new ball game.

[Lori]

Bullant you may not of meant offence, but its hard not to take offence when your in the situation of doing the very best you can with what you have available and have someone say well if I was in that situation I would never allow what your doing to happen.

Its much easier to speculate on what you 'will do' if ever the situation arises than deal with what the reality of the situation in front of you is.

Generally such decisions are highly emotionally charged, the people making them are already bashing themselves up at having to make the tough calls.