Author Topic: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.  (Read 4219 times)

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Offline WogsRus

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Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« on: April 01, 2012, 09:09:33 PM »
OK SO I packed the Paj today for a trail run and FARK IT, came in 78Kg over GVM (2998kg VF 2920kg)

This is still a bit of a guess as we have not got ALL the things there just yet bit close so i estimated some KG into the equation.

Dam it, time for my FAT ASS to go on a diet.

SO NOW....

Big issue is that the Down ball weight is 200Kg or so, 30kg or so juts the spare wheel so need to move it to the back or something.

So what are the repercussions for being over GVM if I get pulled over on my way to the CAPE?

I will see what i can move where and so forth but more wandering if anyone has been pulled over on their journey and any repercussions this has caused ????


Not worried about the Paj suspension, full upgrade to Bilstein and Dobinson coils with Polly airs, means suspension is suitable for the weight, plus new bushes and HD pads for the brakes all around.

BTW, getting rid of the beverages IS NOT an option....LOL
HAD 2007 NS GLX Pajero, 3.8L grunt, ex Cop,

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Offline Garry H

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 09:12:46 PM »
presume you had a full tank of fuel?
insurance implications?

Offline WogsRus

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2012, 09:15:41 PM »
yeah fuel on board already...

wander if this still hold true

"Based on previews of possible future legislation and off the record discussions, it seems unlikely that any action (except a probable formal warning to fix it) would be taken over an excess of less than 5%. If the vehicle is overweight by more than that, but not more than 10%, the most likely outcome is that you will be allowed to drive it to a ‘nominated destination’- where you must fix the problem. You may also be formally warned, or served with an infringement notice, but you are unlikely to have to shed excess weight there and then.

Things are likely to get more immediately serious if the vehicle is more than 10% but less than 20% overweight. You may still be allowed to proceed to, or be escorted to, a nominated destination (but the choice of nominated destination is likely to be very limited). You will probably be fined (the maximum in most parts of Australia is about $3000).

If the vehicle is more than 20% overweight (and I know of one home-constructed motorhome that weighs close to twice its GVM), then you are likely to be in serious trouble. And with respect, rightly so."


Taken forom the net
HAD 2007 NS GLX Pajero, 3.8L grunt, ex Cop,

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Offline johnyd

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2012, 09:31:01 PM »
Is it possible to get an engineers certificate to say that your upgrades have increased the max GVM?

Offline WogsRus

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2012, 09:37:34 PM »
Probably, i'm a mechanical engineer so do it myself. LOL.

One thing i noticed, my car does not have the GVM stamped on the plate at alllll....hum
HAD 2007 NS GLX Pajero, 3.8L grunt, ex Cop,

NOW 50th Anniversary Simpson Edition Poootrol wit some fruit

"Speed doesn't kill. It's the sudden stop at the end"
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Offline achjimmy

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2012, 11:01:03 PM »
Wogs your worrying too much about 80kg mate, time to go on a holiday.
Here for a good time, not a long time!

Jim

Offline johnyd

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 02:51:24 AM »
Probably, i'm a mechanical engineer so do it myself. LOL.

One thing i noticed, my car does not have the GVM stamped on the plate at alllll....hum


Found something for NSW
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib29.pdf

Best I could find for TAS
http://www.transport.tas.gov.au/vehicle_specifications/vehicle_modifications/change_of_vehicle_configuration
http://www.transport.tas.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/74602/Motorhome_Conversion_Jan_2012.pdf
The second is about motorhomes but of particular interest is the section on "vehicle mass and carrying capacity"

Quote
Any increase to a vehicle’s GVM almost always requires a suspension and or brake upgrade, is a
modification and is not covered by this bulletin.  An increase in GVM requires prior approval from
DIER and Engineering Signatory approval.  The GVM of a vehicle will not be downgraded.


For 80kg it's not worth it IMO, but if you wanted more, it is an option.  Just realised you said you have more and then the tow-weight to go so looking at more like 300kg over?
« Last Edit: April 02, 2012, 02:53:29 AM by johnyd »

Offline HEM19X

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 05:36:28 AM »
Is it possible to get an engineers certificate to say that your upgrades have increased the max GVM?

I have been told that increasing the GVM does not increase the total combined weight of the of both the 4BY and CT.. Is this so?

Increased GVM for someone towing a CT shouldn't be a real issue but it can be for those towing heavy CT's [or caravans] that are close to the maximum tow weight allowed by the manufacturer. 
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Offline WogsRus

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2012, 07:27:25 AM »
Hi Mate

Sorry down ball of camper already included in the weight figure. What i was saying, or trying to, is that in order to easily reduce GVM is to reduce the down ball weight on the camper.

Currently still at 80kg over or there about.
HAD 2007 NS GLX Pajero, 3.8L grunt, ex Cop,

NOW 50th Anniversary Simpson Edition Poootrol wit some fruit

"Speed doesn't kill. It's the sudden stop at the end"
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Offline GeeTee

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2012, 07:50:22 AM »
It might be far smarter to avoid the repurcussions - null and void insurance, negligent driving charges, higher risk of damage etc? - and instead work hard and smart to make your vehicle(s) comply

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Offline WogsRus

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2012, 08:39:15 AM »
Yeah that's what i'm trying to do, see how close i get.......
HAD 2007 NS GLX Pajero, 3.8L grunt, ex Cop,

NOW 50th Anniversary Simpson Edition Poootrol wit some fruit

"Speed doesn't kill. It's the sudden stop at the end"
"Live everyday as if it was your last, and some day it will"

Offline Roddersz

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2012, 08:59:24 AM »
G'day Mate,

On the uprating of the GVM, I am PRETTY sure here in Tassie any plate changes to gvm towing etc now have to be done before first registration. I have a mate with a 100 series cruiser who tows a  3.4t boat and wanted to get the cruiser rated to 4 so he could always be OK and not have to stress about extra dive tanks etc putting him over. Pretty sure he was told that he couldn't do it. I don't think it is likely to be an issue as far as the cops getting you, more IF anything happens and you need to make an insurance claim. Even for something as simple as a minor rear ender (when the moron in front of you stops at the last minute to get that parking spot sort of stuff) the insurance could say you were overloaded which compromised your braking - sorry no payout.

Not sure of how accurate it is, I have read a bit and been told, 10% trailer weight on the ball gives you the best handling. Pulling weight off the ball might make things a bit floaty.

I would be trying to find the heaviest stuff in the Paj and seeing if you can squeeze it into the trailer.

Good Luck !!

Cheers
Rod

Offline WogsRus

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2012, 09:47:02 AM »
Hay Rod,

thanks for the advice but i don' think putting SWAMBO in the back would solve anything.... >:D

The trailer itself is about 1.5T or so but it's the fact that there is 6 off Jerry cans in the front and batteries and the fridge, so a lot of weight over the draw bar.

I will try and pull weight out and see what i can do, also found that the Diesel has a max GVM of 3030kg where as the 3.8 V6 has 2920kg, yet the DID and the V6 have identical components and brakes etc ect .

BTW, my truck does not have a GMV stated on the compliance plate at all, so hummmmm....
HAD 2007 NS GLX Pajero, 3.8L grunt, ex Cop,

NOW 50th Anniversary Simpson Edition Poootrol wit some fruit

"Speed doesn't kill. It's the sudden stop at the end"
"Live everyday as if it was your last, and some day it will"

Offline MDS69

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2012, 10:14:02 AM »
I will try and pull weight out and see what i can do, also found that the Diesel has a max GVM of 3030kg where as the 3.8 V6 has 2920kg, yet the DID and the V6 have identical components and brakes etc ect .

I think you will find that the diesel engine & gearbox/transmission weighs approx 110kg less than the V6

Offline WogsRus

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2012, 10:22:44 AM »
I think you will find its the other way around, diesel weighs more also the gearbox runs a DM fly wheel which is an extra 55 kg
HAD 2007 NS GLX Pajero, 3.8L grunt, ex Cop,

NOW 50th Anniversary Simpson Edition Poootrol wit some fruit

"Speed doesn't kill. It's the sudden stop at the end"
"Live everyday as if it was your last, and some day it will"

Offline Matto

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2012, 02:07:53 PM »
My understanding is:

If you're over the GMV, then you're unroadworthy. As GeeTee and Rod say, no insurance (including no CPT, so no public liability indemnity), and potential police/Dept of Transport hassles.

The question of "are you likely to be pulled over/get in trouble because of it" is an entirely different question. I would suggest the answer to that would depend largely on the mood of the person pulling you over at the time. I would also suggest that while there's probably a lot of other touring 4WDs loaded well over their GMV, said officer is probably not going to find that a very effective excuse. Let alone yourself should you need to live with having been involved in an accident.

As for the actual ball weight, I would be worried about 200kg. I would think that would be too much, and would make the car not behave properly. Even with airbags/good suspension/etc, that's still a lot of weight pushing down on the back. That's only one part of the equation though. Keep in mind in this situation you're also dealing with the GCM - Gross Combined Mass of the entire car+trailer package. That can work to your advantage.

IE, move things around. If your trailer is still within it's weight rating, but the car is over, are you able to move some heavy items from the car into the trailer (behind the axle if the download is too much), and move some light stuff forward? Also, rethink what you'll take. You mentioned the jerry's are contributing - do you *really* need to take that much fuel with you? That would be somewhere north of 120kg right there. Keep in mind there's generally quite accessible fuel up the cape, it's not like the Canning. It may be expensive, but so's a fine after being put on a weighbridge.

As for upgrading the GMV, my understanding is that there's 2 ways to do it:
* If you can do it pre-rego, then the build plate on the car gets replaced and that car effectively becomes a "one-off" with a higher GMV (and registered as such). When it's sold anywhere Aus-wide, it retains that rating.
* The other way is post-rego, where you can get a GMV upgrade performed and a mod-plate attached. But that's linked to the state where the mod was performed - IE, a mod plate from NSW might not allow the car to be legally sold in QLD. So it's more of a hassle when selling. Keep in mind that a GMV upgrade will probably need all new suspension and brakes rated for the higher GMV, even if you've got brand new stuff already. The stuff you have now is sized according to the max GMV that you currently are restricted to - you'd possibly need new stuff that conforms to the higher spec.

It all comes down to how happy you are in yourself with the risk involved. You'll probably be fine, the car is probably well over-engineered to take this sort of thing into account, and it probably won't be an issue. As mentioned, thousands of others get around with well overweight cars with no problems. BUT, if you DID have an issue, even a minor one, is it worth it to you?

Finally, good work on putting it over the weighbridge pre-emptively. A lot of people wouldn't even think of it, or would prefer not to know. Well done for taking your family's safety (and the safety of the other road users) into your own hands and actually figuring this stuff out. Sure, it's a hassle to do it now so close to the trip, but once done you won't need to worry about it.

Good luck!
Matto :)
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Offline WogsRus

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2012, 02:20:13 PM »
Hay Matto

thanks for the reply, you are correct i am doing this to be road legal more than anything.

I am trying to see what else i can move to the camper but am fast running out of space and the camper is also getting close to the GVM of 1400 Kg.

The Jerry cans at the front store water only for the time being. but will be empty for most of the trip until we get to the top.

In regards to behavior with the 200Kg ball weight, never been an issue as yet, the Paj actually rides quite nice but i do take it fairly easily with the trailer in tow.

Well we will see how she goes on Wednesday at the final weigh in.
HAD 2007 NS GLX Pajero, 3.8L grunt, ex Cop,

NOW 50th Anniversary Simpson Edition Poootrol wit some fruit

"Speed doesn't kill. It's the sudden stop at the end"
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Offline Matto

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2012, 02:28:08 PM »
Good luck!

Makes sense about the jerry's. Sounds like you have a very intricate game of Jenga on your hands.

Thanks for the feedback about the ball weight too. As mentioned, I would have assumed that 200kg would have really made the car wallow. Glad to hear it's normally pretty good - those Paj's must be made from sterner stuff than I imagined.

We are currently having the opposite problem with the father-in-law's camper. After moving the spare tyre to the tailgate, while bolting on the kitchen on Saturday the trailer fell backwards and clocked the old man on the head  :-[. So it's now having some ballast applied to the drawbar to get it a bit more nose-down  ;D.

Again, good luck!
Matto :)

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Offline lilstookie

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Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2012, 04:01:23 PM »
We are leaving on our trip soon and something we are doing to reduce weight is the leave both water tanks empty until we are in the bush free camping. We will fill up water at the last servo to save dragging 150lt of water around.
We carry a 140kg dirt bike too and empty both fuel tanks from it for travelling. Same with extra fuel storage. We only fill em when we expect to use them.
Why carry spare fuel when you do t need it.
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Offline Roddersz

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2012, 04:24:34 PM »
200kgs of ball weight with 1400kgs of trailer isn't far off that 10% ball weight figure... The polyairs will also make that a more comfortable ride anyway.

I tow a 2000kg tandem trailer quite often, when unloaded is a bugger of a thing to tow, once you get some weight on it is actually much better to tow - all about that delicate balance!

Good luck!
 Sounds like you have a very intricate game of Jenga on your hands.

This sounds like the fun game. Like when you go away for any trip it's a fine line between being prepared and being over prepared. I do know when packing with kids though it adds up REALLY quick!

Even if you do empty the jerrys out for most of the time, there does come a time when you WILL want to fill them so you almost have to factor them in to any solution you come up with anyway.

Good Luck!

Cheers
Rod

Offline WogsRus

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Re: Time to go on a diet....... NOT ME THE PAJ you silly.
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2012, 07:05:17 PM »
Well it official, shes a AT ASSSSSSS.

So all packed ready to go and try as i did the dam thing just won't loose any weight.

I am exactly 145kg over GVM with the camper connected, and that is after putting more in the camper and reducing the down ball weight.

With camper not connected, i am exactly 20kg under

Ohh well i just have to face it, Paj is a Fatty

HAD 2007 NS GLX Pajero, 3.8L grunt, ex Cop,

NOW 50th Anniversary Simpson Edition Poootrol wit some fruit

"Speed doesn't kill. It's the sudden stop at the end"
"Live everyday as if it was your last, and some day it will"