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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: corndog on June 17, 2019, 12:46:14 PM

Title: Another building crumbles.
Post by: corndog on June 17, 2019, 12:46:14 PM
In our mad rush to create  higher denisty living, allowing us to cram more people into our ever increasingly over populated cities, are we getting buildings, that within a year there are major defects occurring. Is this just the tip of the iceberg or just  coincidental bad luck..
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: jw2170 on June 17, 2019, 01:22:25 PM
I am hoping it is not the tip of the iceberg.  There is oversuply in Sydney and still they keep going...
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on June 17, 2019, 01:32:00 PM
Honestly - hands up if anyone is surprised....
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Champin on June 17, 2019, 01:48:12 PM
There was a report a number of years ago about the quality or lack thereof of steel coming out of Korea and China. The report stated, with the engineers ability to fine tune projects with the minimal amount of steel use,  decreasing the cost of said project, the jobs aren't in effect built with the structural integrity they engineered into them.
 An example of this is Melbourne's faress wheel. Cracks where discovered. It was implied there were certain impurities in the steel affecting the welds along the heat affected zone.
 Maybe with the race to build things at a cost to compete on the national and international market, this breakdown of quality assurance is the sacrifice the big guys are willing to make. Albeit at a cost of life.
 Not like it hasn't been done before.

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Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Hoyks on June 17, 2019, 06:02:48 PM
I think its a combination of factors.
Plenty of crappy building products being imported, but the big one is that many councils have stopped having building inspectors actually doing inspections before slabs are poured or work is completed and now require developers to self assess their work and issue certificates of compliance... then there is good old corruption.


I'm interested in the crying foul as there is no one that can sue or claim against to recoup some of the building expenses and the gumment should do something.
My house has termites (100% confirmed when I stripped out the spare room, wife sprung an echidna trying to break into my daughters room, so guessing they are there too), but there is no one I can complain to or claim against. $200k+ on top of the mortgage to build and knock down, but what can you do?
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: GBC on June 18, 2019, 06:13:22 AM
The pics I saw showed cracked sub floor Besser blocks which point to footing issues. These are common enough. Looks like it could be a beat up unless there are bigger issues not shown in the article I saw. All steel used on bigger jobs needs to prove strength and is certified, no matter where it is from and MOST of it is Chinese direct or via wholesalers. There were issues years ago with quality but since the hydro power came on line they have come to the fore.
The certifying engineer inspects all structural and reinforcing steel prior to pouring.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Jeepers Creepers on June 18, 2019, 06:48:58 AM
The pics I saw showed cracked sub floor Besser blocks which point to footing issues. These are common enough. Looks like it could be a beat up unless there are bigger issues not shown in the article I saw. All steel used on bigger jobs needs to prove strength and is certified, no matter where it is from and MOST of it is Chinese direct or via wholesalers. There were issues years ago with quality but since the hydro power came on line they have come to the fore.
The certifying engineer inspects all structural and reinforcing steel prior to pouring.

Where the hell do you come off posting crap like that.
There is no place on these sorts of threads for informative, sensible information which is, most likely, true and correct.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: GBC on June 18, 2019, 06:52:16 AM
Where the hell do you come off posting crap like that.
There is no place on these sorts of threads for informative, sensible information which is, most likely, true and correct.
Sorry, I woke up early. Pre first coffee post and a distinct lack of smart arsery. My apologies


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Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Mace on June 18, 2019, 10:17:32 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/18/cracked-up-how-can-apartment-buyers-guard-against-a-defective-purchase

Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on June 18, 2019, 11:38:01 AM
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/jun/18/cracked-up-how-can-apartment-buyers-guard-against-a-defective-purchase
buy 20+yr old units LOL...
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Pottsy on June 18, 2019, 11:40:08 AM
The apartment owners are now being asked to find 80k each to effect $1mil repairs, where the hell are people supposed to find that kind of money.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Rumpig on June 18, 2019, 11:44:45 AM
The certifying engineer inspects all structural and reinforcing steel prior to pouring.
x2 on above on any building i’ve ever worked on...never worked on big high rise projects though, but any multi storey suspended concrete slab we did on our unit complexes was always engineer inspected before a pour
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: GGV8Cruza on June 18, 2019, 12:19:46 PM
x2 on above on any building i’ve ever worked on...never worked on big high rise projects though, but any multi storey suspended concrete slab we did on our unit complexes was always engineer inspected before a pour

That's the way it works most times. Here is the problem these days

An engineer designs a slab to hold up all the relevant loads. We price the project off the drawings. We then contract a concretor to do the works and they get there PT (post tensioning) engineer to redesign the slabs which removes a lot of the steel and replaces it with stands and ducts to support the relevant loads. If you saw a PT slab prior to pouring you would wonder how it stays in place sometimes.

The PT engineer signs off and then an inspector comes from the building surveyor who unfortunately has little idea about what they are looking at. Council do not inspect these types of structural elements as they too would have little to no idea of what is going on. (sorry to anyone who is an inspector as PT is another world to most)

Then its time to pour the concrete and the trucks turn up and add as much water as they want to the mix to make it easy to pump and also easy to place and finish. While placing the concrete the over sized concretors are jumping all over the reo and PT and squashing bar chairs which are supposed to keep it in a particular place in the slab to work effectively in holding up the slab.

So you can see why sometimes there are issues. I am very particular when pouring these slabs and I do it most weeks during the initial construction of the structure of a building. Our QA and standards are high and when a pour is underway I do not leave the deck during placement. The dollar is driving down quality and cutting corners is happening in detriment of building structure stability and finish.

GG

Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Rumpig on June 18, 2019, 07:13:23 PM
That's the way it works most times. Here is the problem these days

An engineer designs a slab to hold up all the relevant loads. We price the project off the drawings. We then contract a concretor to do the works and they get there PT (post tensioning) engineer to redesign the slabs which removes a lot of the steel and replaces it with stands and ducts to support the relevant loads. If you saw a PT slab prior to pouring you would wonder how it stays in place sometimes.

The PT engineer signs off and then an inspector comes from the building surveyor who unfortunately has little idea about what they are looking at. Council do not inspect these types of structural elements as they too would have little to no idea of what is going on. (sorry to anyone who is an inspector as PT is another world to most)

Then its time to pour the concrete and the trucks turn up and add as much water as they want to the mix to make it easy to pump and also easy to place and finish. While placing the concrete the over sized concretors are jumping all over the reo and PT and squashing bar chairs which are supposed to keep it in a particular place in the slab to work effectively in holding up the slab.

So you can see why sometimes there are issues. I am very particular when pouring these slabs and I do it most weeks during the initial construction of the structure of a building. Our QA and standards are high and when a pour is underway I do not leave the deck during placement. The dollar is driving down quality and cutting corners is happening in detriment of building structure stability and finish.

GG
we have done a few units that had post tension slabs in them...had the concrete blow apart in one spot once when they were tensioning it up. It did amaze me how the slab rose up from the formwork in a few places once tensioned it
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: GGV8Cruza on June 19, 2019, 06:02:08 AM
we have done a few units that had post tension slabs in them...had the concrete blow apart in one spot once when they were tensioning it up. It did amaze me how the slab rose up from the formwork in a few places once tensioned it

I had a pop yesterday on the underside of the slab. Not from the tensioning of the strands but from the grouting of the ducts. A bit of high strength mortar will be needed to fix the soffit.

GG
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: rotare on June 21, 2019, 10:17:40 AM
Quote
The dollar is driving down quality and cutting corners is happening in detriment of building structure stability and finish.


This is the issue - cost cutting and a continual pressure on everyone in the construction process to reduce costs.

I'm in engineering, structural and civil design.  To win any work we have to cut the guts out of our fees, to the point we're pricing stuff now simply to keep people employed and the doors open - there's no margin for profit on most stuff and the fee is about covering our costs.

Everyone wants designs that will reduce their construction costs, good engineering takes time, but no-one wants to pay for it.   

We often quote stuff from preliminary architectural designs.  We win the work, only to find later when we receive the finalised architectural the plans have been changed without any consultation with us, which impacts on the engineering design.  We'll point out the new design needs more steel (as an example), but the response generally is the construction costs have been fixed, there's no allowance for changes, so find another way to make it work.  Usually this means making compromises on the structure's integrity or performance, or reducing the factor of safety.  Push this point and as engineers we're told we are too conservative, and it will be the last time we get to quote work with this developer or builder....

Third party certifiers sign off on the work because they also know that if they make too much noise, they won't end up on the preferred supplier list, plus if anything goes wrong it will be the design engineers that cop it first, anyways.

Talk with anyone in the construction process and it's generally the same story.  Not many are making money, no-one wants to pay for quality work so naturally corners get cut.  It's all about doing everything as cheap as possible.

Not sure who to ultimately blame for this mess, but it's been described by a few as the 'profitless boom'.  There will be more building failures in time, without a doubt.   

       
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on June 21, 2019, 10:21:12 AM
Quote from: rotare
... good engineering takes time, but no-one wants to pay for it.

sadly this is in all industries..
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: GBC on June 21, 2019, 10:26:03 AM


This is the issue - cost cutting and a continual pressure on everyone in the construction process to reduce costs.

I'm in engineering, structural and civil design.  To win any work we have to cut the guts out of our fees, to the point we're pricing stuff now simply to keep people employed and the doors open - there's no margin for profit on most stuff and the fee is about covering our costs.

Everyone wants designs that will reduce their construction costs, good engineering takes time, but no-one wants to pay for it.   

We often quote stuff from preliminary architectural designs.  We win the work, only to find later when we receive the finalised architectural the plans have been changed without any consultation with us, which impacts on the engineering design.  We'll point out the new design needs more steel (as an example), but the response generally is the construction costs have been fixed, there's no allowance for changes, so find another way to make it work.  Usually this means making compromises on the structure's integrity or performance, or reducing the factor of safety.  Push this point and as engineers we're told we are too conservative, and it will be the last time we get to quote work with this developer or builder....

Third party certifiers sign off on the work because they also know that if they make too much noise, they won't end up on the preferred supplier list, plus if anything goes wrong it will be the design engineers that cop it first, anyways.

Talk with anyone in the construction process and it's generally the same story.  Not many are making money, no-one wants to pay for quality work so naturally corners get cut.  It's all about doing everything as cheap as possible.

Not sure who to ultimately blame for this mess, but it's been described by a few as the 'profitless boom'.  There will be more building failures in time, without a doubt.   

     

Yes, the design and construct commercial/industrial guys have created a lovely cesspool for themselves to play in. We are lucky enough to have fought the good fight, proven our name, sacked the crap clients, and adjusted the business to suit whatever inflows from the trusted developers we work with. Even with trusted clients we get market tested all the time and told we've missed jobs because we are too expensive - they all come back.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: GGV8Cruza on June 21, 2019, 10:40:36 AM
Yes, the design and construct commercial/industrial guys have created a lovely cesspool for themselves to play in. We are lucky enough to have fought the good fight, proven our name, sacked the crap clients, and adjusted the business to suit whatever inflows from the trusted developers we work with. Even with trusted clients we get market tested all the time and told we've missed jobs because we are too expensive - they all come back.

We are in the same boat and its good to build great projects, keep the client and the boss happy.

GG
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: rags on June 21, 2019, 07:49:36 PM
The problems will all be solved very sound as the building industry falls to its knees.

The is a very real emerging problem at the moment. It surrounds insurance for building certifiers, it is getting to the stage where certifiers are nolonger able to get adequate insurance for their risks even if they could afford it. Insurers are pulling the plug on the industry also.

So the problem is that there will be no one to issue building permits, no one to certify the work and no one to issue final certificates. It has the potential,to be worse than the FAI insurance debacle of early 1990s.
Governments need to act before the industry comes to a halt.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on June 22, 2019, 12:46:02 AM
 >:D >:D

It'll be fine Rags, just like all the other stuff, they'll subbie it out to someone from offshore.

 >:D >:D

Even if they did try an enquiry into it, and actually found someone to blame, how long will it take to fix.
How many lives would be disrupted, and at who's cost.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: GBC on June 22, 2019, 06:04:58 AM
The problems will all be solved very sound as the building industry falls to its knees.

The is a very real emerging problem at the moment. It surrounds insurance for building certifiers, it is getting to the stage where certifiers are nolonger able to get adequate insurance for their risks even if they could afford it. Insurers are pulling the plug on the industry also.

So the problem is that there will be no one to issue building permits, no one to certify the work and no one to issue final certificates. It has the potential,to be worse than the FAI insurance debacle of early 1990s.
Governments need to act before the industry comes to a halt.

PI insurance costs will be forced onto clients like doctors etc. The ACP debarcle down south started that. Insurers and various other professional hangers on haven’t made many lives better anyway.

The poor builders and poor certifiers will be weeded out and the rest will carry on.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: achjimmy on June 22, 2019, 09:07:30 AM
Flying in from Auckland yesterday , had a clear run in over nth Sydney and mascot and you could see hundreds of these new Legoland towers. This problem is going to be the new asbestos in a few years! I just hope that the fix is insular and the tax/levy is loaded on unit owners/builders/developers and not all home owners.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on June 22, 2019, 01:38:44 PM
reading an article on mascot mecchano set the owners have agreed to a million buk fund for repairs with some quotes upto 5 mill... where do owners pull that money from? apparently there have been issues in the past where owners received compensation! it must be bad...

i bet as jimmy says this is the tip of teh iceberg...

noting the Opal Towers thing has gone quiet
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Rumpig on June 22, 2019, 04:03:09 PM
reading an article on mascot mecchano set the owners have agreed to a million buk fund for repairs with some quotes upto 5 mill... where do owners pull that money from? apparently there have been issues in the past where owners received compensation! it must be bad...

i bet as jimmy says this is the tip of teh iceberg...

noting the Opal Towers thing has gone quiet
i wondered the same thing about where are people getting that money, think I saw on the news that  each unit owner needed to chip in $80K...and that’s just a starting fund. Gotta think a court case will follow as owners chase the builder for that money back.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: briann532 on June 22, 2019, 04:56:50 PM
remedial building is booming in Shitney…

Because there is a huge market it for it.
No offence intended to the honest certifiers which there are plenty of and I know a lot, but there is a faction of certifiers who "do their job" "get paid for it" then bugger off. New business next year, new name and oh, yeah that building, that was another company who did that...…

Private certification, not so sure about it. Works in theory, but lets face it for the bigger companies, you are on the payroll, you do what you are told.
I have worked for a really good developer who said straight out, to do the job properly would cost him more than they are selling "off the plan" for. How ??? well I think this post answers the question.

Plenty more to come unfortunately.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on June 22, 2019, 05:05:03 PM
i wondered the same thing about where are people getting that money, think I saw on the news that  each unit owner needed to chip in $80K...and that’s just a starting fund. Gotta think a court case will follow as owners chase the builder for that money back.
All those involved in the building and approvals have probably yesterday closed up business, and today opened under another name.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Rumpig on June 22, 2019, 05:09:06 PM
All those involved in the building and approvals have probably yesterday closed up business, and today opened under another name.
if they haven’t shut up shop yet, i reckon they’d currently be busy offloading assets to family members atleast.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on June 22, 2019, 05:20:48 PM
if they haven’t shut up shop yet, i reckon they’d currently be busy offloading assets to family members atleast.
and thats ****in obscene that they can do this Shit and get away with it.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: rags on June 22, 2019, 06:39:54 PM
and thats ****in obscene that they can do this Shit and get away with it.


if they haven’t shut up shop yet, i reckon they’d currently be busy offloading assets to family members atleast.

The first thing is they couldn't close the business through insolvency measures and expect to trade under a new company next day. They would be denied a licence to practice under a new name due to their insolvency. Building licensing regulators are quite firm in that matter.

I can understand why they would transfer asset. I have a good mate who has practiced as certifier for many years, moved on around four years ago into another role ( nolonger practitioners Building certification. He has moved assets as his carry over insurance jumped to in excess of $25000 which he decided to risk going without as he cant afford to pay for the insurance. 

Here's the rub, he needs to continue paying that money long after he seizes practising even into retirement. This insurance would cover any claim that may arise as a result a decision he may have made in previous years, it not about providing insurance for work if he was still practising that he may certify today, that would be another part to a policy. He can nolonger hold his building certification credentials with the regulator because he is nolonger insured.

I can't imagine any of us would be happy to continue paying insurance long after the job was finished or when you are long retired.


Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: rotare on June 22, 2019, 07:20:52 PM
He has moved assets as his carry over insurance jumped to in excess of $25000 which he decided to risk going without as he cant afford to pay for the insurance. 


Oh to have an excess on insurance of $25K.  As engineers our excess is $80K.

It’s ridiculous.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: rags on June 22, 2019, 07:29:41 PM
Oh to have an excess on insurance of $25K.  As engineers our excess is $80K.

It’s ridiculous.

It is not the excess,, I said the premium is IN excess of $25k.
 It is the  premium that needs to be payed annually to cover any failure of a building that the certifier may have certified previously , say 10 years ago. I'm sure there would be an excess if a claim was to be made.

As stated it is on top of any insurance for work in progress.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on June 25, 2019, 11:02:49 AM
Interesting they say its sinking... Just wait 10 yrs, and they might have a few extra levels of basement living :)

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/mascot-towers-moving-in-downward-motion-latest-engineer-update-says-20190625-p520wm.html
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: glenm64 on June 25, 2019, 12:00:29 PM
"NSW Minister for Better Regulation, Kevin Anderson,  ......  defended the city's high rise housing, saying: "I don’t believe there is any great cause for alarm for other apartment buildings across Sydney"."

Wonder if he would personally guarantee that??
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on June 25, 2019, 12:30:52 PM
Quote from: glenm64
"NSW Minister for Better Regulation

Is that a serious title ??? ??? Surely not...
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: chester ver2.0 on June 25, 2019, 12:56:05 PM
and thats ****in obscene that they can do this Shit and get away with it.

Simple i guarantee even if you had 2% equity in it your lender will give you the money cause the last thing the bank wants is for you to declare bankrupt then they have to sell a unit worth virtually nothing and lost a loan paying customer in the process
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: GBC on June 25, 2019, 06:28:23 PM
We were called in recently to help with a building which wasn’t meeting it’s flow test figures, and never had since certification. Grab the plans wander around. Inside the main distribution boards there are feeds to the pump station which was never built, and the 2 stormwater reclamation tanks drawn to feed it do not exist. This is a 7000m2 building in the middle of Brisbane, certified to national codes, not state level which isn’t easy to do - usually 😂. I’m guessing they had a fire truck up the street somewhere pumping up the town main pressure/flow on certification day.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Brisbane Puff on June 29, 2019, 10:12:38 PM
Meanwhile... not in Sydney??
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uipI7_1561019747&p=1
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Rumpig on June 30, 2019, 07:34:45 AM
Meanwhile... not in Sydney??
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uipI7_1561019747&p=1
interesting how it peels away, like there's no reo / steel tieing that section to the rest of the building.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: rags on June 30, 2019, 10:37:45 AM
Meanwhile... not in Sydney??
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uipI7_1561019747&p=1

Link doesn’t work even when using “lookup”
Also why are so many links not displayed as hyper links in recent times here
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: GBC on June 30, 2019, 07:08:55 PM
Meanwhile... not in Sydney??
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uipI7_1561019747&p=1

No engaged piers there 😂
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on July 11, 2019, 09:59:46 AM
Meanwhile... not in Sydney??
https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=uipI7_1561019747&p=1
probably same builders that moved to sydney knowing they'd get away with it.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: lloydus67 on July 11, 2019, 12:49:47 PM
Link doesn’t work even when using “lookup”
Also why are so many links not displayed as hyper links in recent times here
Works fine for me


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Fizzie on August 18, 2019, 04:51:22 PM
Looks like they haven't even scratched the surface of the problem yet :'(

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-18/how-bad-could-the-apartment-building-crisis-be-in-your-state/11413122 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-18/how-bad-could-the-apartment-building-crisis-be-in-your-state/11413122)

~70% of unit / apartment buildings have defects, but "Ninety-seven% of buildings in New South Wales surveyed in the Griffith-Deakin study had at least one defect in multiple locations. The study looked at buildings built between 2003 and 2018.

The study found that the most common type of defect was waterproofing, followed by fire safety systems."

Waterproofing is bad enough, but fire safety systems ??? :o
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: corndog on August 19, 2019, 08:46:53 PM
Big part of the problem.
Build them as quick as we can.
Build them as cheap as we can.
Sell them for as much as we can.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on August 20, 2019, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: Fizzie
Looks like they haven't even scratched the surface of the problem yet :'(

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-18/how-bad-could-the-apartment-building-crisis-be-in-your-state/11413122 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-18/how-bad-could-the-apartment-building-crisis-be-in-your-state/11413122)

~70% of unit / apartment buildings have defects, but "Ninety-seven% of buildings in New South Wales surveyed in the Griffith-Deakin study had at least one defect in multiple locations. The study looked at buildings built between 2003 and 2018.

The study found that the most common type of defect was waterproofing, followed by fire safety systems."

Waterproofing is bad enough, but fire safety systems ??? :o
you sound surprised by this ???

With how many and how fast buildings go up these days, honestly something has to be cut to actually be able to build this quick... and $$$$ is always top importance.
This is going to get Shit loads worse before it ever gets better... imagine having a 500k mortgage for a place you cant live in for god knows how long ... 1 mth 1 yr.. 5 yrs..


Quote from: corndog
Big part of the problem.
Build them as quick as we can.
Build them as cheap as we can.
Sell them for as much as we can.
Bingo.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Pete79 on August 20, 2019, 01:03:14 PM
you sound surprised by this ???

With how many and how fast buildings go up these days, honestly something has to be cut to actually be able to build this quick... and $$$$ is always top importance.
This is going to get Shit loads worse before it ever gets better... imagine having a 500k mortgage for a place you cant live in for god knows how long ... 1 mth 1 yr.. 5 yrs..

Bingo.
Imagine having a 500k mortgage for a 1 bedroom apartment in a place like Sydney....
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: alnjan on August 20, 2019, 01:34:40 PM
Imagine having a 500k mortgage for a 1 bedroom apartment in a place like Sydney....

and now imagine having to take another similar mortgage to collectively fix the apartment building
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on August 20, 2019, 02:32:14 PM
Quote from: alnjan
and now imagine having to take another similar mortgage to collectively fix the apartment building
and barely earning enough for the first mortgage...

Dont worry I know what land "costs" in Shitney - one reason I moved to Melbourne 20yrs ago...
mates parents place directly under the 3rd runway path at Kurnell - it sold recently for 2 million - they dozed the house.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Champin on August 20, 2019, 06:58:56 PM
and barely earning enough for the first mortgage...

Dont worry I know what land "costs" in Shitney - one reason I moved to Melbourne 20yrs ago...
mates parents place directly under the 3rd runway path at Kurnell - it sold recently for 2 million - they dozed the house.
Bugger that!!! I'm going bush and building me a tree house

Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Spada on August 20, 2019, 07:12:14 PM
I feel sorry for the young girl from Canberra that was on four corners last night. Her apartment is undamaged, but is in a unit complex that has significant problems. She'll still need to stump up for a share of the body corporate repairs which will force her into bankruptcy as she  wont be able able to service the additional debt?
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Fizzie on August 21, 2019, 07:49:19 AM
She'll still need to stump up for a share of the body corporate repairs which will force her into bankruptcy as she  wont be able able to service the additional debt?

I know that's life, & life's not fair, but that's just wrong :'(
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on August 21, 2019, 09:27:21 AM
Quote from: Spada
I feel sorry for the young girl from Canberra that was on four corners last night. Her apartment is undamaged, but is in a unit complex that has significant problems. She'll still need to stump up for a share of the body corporate repairs which will force her into bankruptcy as she  wont be able able to service the additional debt?

There will be dozens in her boat, which is all ****ed up... said it before, GOv co blow billions on stupid Shit and donations to overseas countries... Time to start looking after our own.
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: Bird on October 10, 2019, 08:34:40 AM
This isnt going to end well

Quote
Mascot Towers residents given two 'very bad' options after building failure
One loan proposal would offer up to $20 million at a 7.7 per cent variable interest rate per annum over 15 years, with funds to be put towards stages one and three of the remediation works which have already started.

One resident, who did not want to be named, said "the options presented to us as owners are like choosing a preferred execution method".

Another owner said both options are "very bad", adding he had spoken with a bankruptcy lawyer on Wednesday morning. wow...

"We don’t know whether the $20 million is the end or just the beginning. We have not yet received the final costing," the owner said. "The strata committee can liquidate me if they push through the motion in the AGM."

A survey last month by the building’s owners corporation found more than a third of owners cannot pay their portion of the levy because banks and other lenders are refusing to assist.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/mascot-towers-residents-given-two-very-bad-options-after-building-failure-20191009-p52z0e.html
Title: Re: Another building crumbles.
Post by: chester ver2.0 on October 10, 2019, 02:05:49 PM
Apparently the old 60's 70's and 80's units are now some of the most sought after real estate in sydney
Double brick so if it has not fallen down by now it wont
High ceilings and easy to renovate
Most only 6 stories high
No elevators so strata fees reasonable

Amazing how what is old always seems to come around as popular again