MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: RebsWA on June 21, 2024, 01:52:51 AM
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This is not about camper trailers. I came home from a couple months away fishing to find my home solar system not making any power. Fault light on. Paid the extortion to get the supplier to come and have a look and end result is its all going to be replaced. It was installed in 2013 with premium panels and inverter. Why is it all getting replaced you ask?
The inverter is faulty, manufacturer no longer in business, no one repairs them.
One of the 2 strings has “some” faulty panels (shorts or something). They are 250 watt and considered old technology as the panels they use now are 440 watt and not suitable to be put in with the old. I was shown some pics of the old ones with fractures appearing in the black bits under the glass. Not good. So much for the panel warranty/guarantee when technology has moved on.
If they could get some 250 watt panels to replace the crook ones I could get away with just a new inverter. No! There seem to be some compatibility issues there and the new inverter guarantee would probably be void if installed with old 250 watt panels and there was a problem.
So with all those road blocks it looks like I throw it all away and get a new system. I reckon I’ve probably broken even with the initial capital outlay as systems were more expensive back then and it also cost extra to have it rack mounted on the shed cos the house roof is less than ideal for solar.
As they are installing a new system the government/power company I’m told is generously reducing the 7 cents per kw I export to the grid down to 2 cents per Kw and after 4pm it goes to 10 cents per Kw. Great incentive there. Wow soon they be offering $'s per Kw all night!
As far as I know there is no recycling facility for old panels in WA so they probably will go to landfill. Same probably for the inverter.
While I consider myself sensibly green I am beginning to think that home solar systems are just another scam.
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Check your House Insurance policy... a lot class rooftop panels as part of the building, maybe you could claim on that?
As for recycling, Harvey Norman and Officeworks take old electrical cables, printers, computers etc. I guess the inverter would just be similar in that it just is circuit boards etc so they may take it?
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10 years is not a bad service life these days. I agree the cost entry point, with the tech changing so fast, and the feed-ins virtually non-existent, it's hard to justify. Fortunately, you don't have any batteries in your system.
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Are the panels suitable to be used for campers/camping? I think its Craig up North uses house panels for his long stays..
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Our system is 10 years old with similar panel size, but we were even after 6.5 years.
But I agree, it is a waste to have everything replaced.
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Not sure about home insurance when items are seemingly "worn out"
A 10 year service life falls a bit short of my expectation given the guarantee/warrantees that came with the inverter and panels. There is no way I would outlay for off grid battery systems. I would not trust the perceived service life for a battery bank and too much bad publicity about lithiums anyway.
Old panels my be suitable for blokes like Craig but its a limited market, they are big and I dont want them laying around the place while I try to sell them
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Have you thought about getting a second opinion?
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I thought the panels had a guaranteed power output of 80% after 25 years?
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Put the panels up on gumtree for $40 and they will sell.
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Have you thought about getting a second opinion?
Yes, same outcome.
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I thought the panels had a guaranteed power output of 80% after 25 years?
I am onto that and will be asking the question
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Put the panels up on gumtree for $40 and they will sell.
Might keep a few and try that. Limited market where I am, I reckon.
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We were off grid in SA was cheaper than bringing the power in. I asked about lithium at the time but the installer didn’t recon they were worth it. We ended up with sealed wet cell batteries expected life at least 15 years.
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We are still on the "massive" $0.07 import rebate till July, at that time our system is 10 years old and will be transferred to the new DEBS scheme.
With our EV, we have a Zappi which is setup to charge only if there is surplus of power generated.
So instead of exporting it to the grid for nothing, it will charge our car.
That means charging our car will be even cheaper. From 7cents/kW it will be 2cents/kW.
We were thinking of adding panels, but it is the same as what RebsWA mentioned, panels are too old and only 260W each.
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We are still on the "massive" $0.07 import rebate till July, at that time our system is 10 years old and will be transferred to the new DEBS scheme.
With our EV, we have a Zappi which is setup to charge only if there is surplus of power generated.
So instead of exporting it to the grid for nothing, it will charge our car.
That means charging our car will be even cheaper. From 7cents/kW it will be 2cents/kW.
We were thinking of adding panels, but it is the same as what RebsWA mentioned, panels are too old and only 260W each.
Like everything else nowadays if you get ten years out of it great, but if it goes crook, then its a throwaway.
25 year panel warranty is kinda worthless IMO
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Interesting news regarding recycling panels
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/solar-panels-paving-the-path-to-new-recycling-hub/ar-BB1oPWQP (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/solar-panels-paving-the-path-to-new-recycling-hub/ar-BB1oPWQP)
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My 2.2kW original panels were still working when the Fronius inverter died at 14 yrs 5 months and the nice installers took the lot away and installed 6.64kW with a Goodwe 3 phase inverter for $5300. Inverters die around 10 years on average and with cheaper better tech the old system is uneconomic junk and so much for net-zero and sustainability. Look on the bright side I'm changing the weather three times as much now ;D
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When my inverter failed on my shed 2Kw system I just replaced the inverter with a new one. It is still making the same power now as it always did.
I do have a 6.5 Kw system as well, my total export is limited to 5Kw though.
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If you got 10 years out of your system then at least it paid for itself 3 times over that period.
We replaced our system from 1.5kw to 6.5kw about 2 years back.
When they came to install the new system, they removed the old panels. I made the mistake of saying Ill keep them , thinking I could sell them. Couldnt sell them and ended up taking them to the guy in Wattlegrove that recycles them.
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So what does a 20 month old new 6.64kW panels plus 6kW 3 phase inverter put out in metro Adelaide you ask? Well in ideal sunny conditions 44kWhrs a day but a recent wet miserable day only 2.2kWhrs like I got only 1.8 on a similar day last July. That's the same proportionally with rooftop solar all over the metro on average hiding a multitude of up and down yoyo sins with fickle energy just like wind. When you actually own rooftop solar and can view the output graphs anytime on your phone you know the Canberra climate cult is smoking stuff they shouldn't.
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If anything goes wrong with ours, it will stay that way, in Victoria now you are just wasting your mother getting or repairing any domestic solar, with a feed in tariff of 3cents per kwh. The only way you might save would be to build your own lifpo battery bank and save all your own power >:( >:(
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If anything goes wrong with ours, it will stay that way, in Victoria now you are just wasting your mother getting or repairing any domestic solar, with a feed in tariff of 3cents per kwh. The only way you might save would be to build your own lifpo battery bank and save all your own power >:( >:(
but letss get rid of gas and go electric.. wonder who will come out in front on that plan.
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Well xcavator while household batteries don't pay the cheapest form of storage is an electric storage HWS or cooling and heating the home whenever the sun shines (or a pool pump etc). After all if the climate changers get their way with the demise of coal and we're all driving EVs then there will be no cheap power at night. On the contrary with commuter EV charging after work we'd expect all night to be peak rates at some stage and with the solar duck curve use it or lose it while the sun shines-
https://www.powerdiverter.com/ (https://www.powerdiverter.com/)
https://www.catchpower.com.au/ (https://www.catchpower.com.au/)
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So what does a 20 month old new 6.64kW panels plus 6kW 3 phase inverter put out in metro Adelaide you ask? Well in ideal sunny conditions 44kWhrs a day but a recent wet miserable day only 2.2kWhrs like I got only 1.8 on a similar day last July. That's the same proportionally with rooftop solar all over the metro on average hiding a multitude of up and down yoyo sins with fickle energy just like wind. When you actually own rooftop solar and can view the output graphs anytime on your phone you know the Canberra climate cult is smoking stuff they shouldn't.
I reckon I know the day you are talking about, 0.8kw from a 4kw system we installed 11 years ago, with the appalling feed in tariffs we now get I’ve made the decision to put in a battery and store my power for night time and emergency use.
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Yep feedins are a joke, government got us to spend on rooftop solar to cut power bills now feedin tariffs are so low not worht exporting, in
the near future you may end up paying them for any power you export.
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Yep feedins are a joke, government got us to spend on rooftop solar to cut power bills now feedin tariffs are so low not worht exporting, in
the near future you may end up paying them for any power you export.
Not far off in NSW
Market rules paving the way for two-way electricity tariffs were signed off by the Australian Energy Market Commission in 2021, and a handful of network companies – mostly in NSW – have been testing out their options since then.
By the end of 2022, four Australia electricity networks – Ausgrid, Essential Energy and Endeavour Energy in NSW, and Evoenergy in the ACT – had flagged their plans to introduce rooftop solar export tariffs from 2024.
These plans were firmed up and teased out in 2023, as detailed here.
Now 2024 has arrived, Ausgrid confirms it will introduce the 1.2c/kWh export charge in July – but only as an “opt-in” exercise – as in, customers will have to request to be involved, via their retailer. It will become mandatory a year later, in July 2025.
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If anything goes wrong with ours, it will stay that way, in Victoria now you are just wasting your mother getting or repairing any domestic solar, with a feed in tariff of 3cents per kwh. The only way you might save would be to build your own lifpo battery bank and save all your own power >:( >:(
from another forum
I just received an email from Scumbum energy (Sumo) informing me that they are raising my Peak/Off Peak and daily supply charge by 50% and lowering solar Feed-in tariff by 70%. $1.54 daily supply, $0.5 peak and $0.29 off-peak and feed in of $0.033.
Is anyone else seeing this insanity?
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Our wonderful governments are so far out of touch with reality when it comes to solar and green energy.
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This is not about camper trailers. I came home from a couple months away fishing to find my home solar system not making any power. Fault light on. Paid the extortion to get the supplier to come and have a look and end result is its all going to be replaced. It was installed in 2013 with premium panels and inverter. Why is it all getting replaced you ask?
The inverter is faulty, manufacturer no longer in business, no one repairs them.
One of the 2 strings has “some” faulty panels (shorts or something). They are 250 watt and considered old technology as the panels they use now are 440 watt and not suitable to be put in with the old. I was shown some pics of the old ones with fractures appearing in the black bits under the glass. Not good. So much for the panel warranty/guarantee when technology has moved on.
If they could get some 250 watt panels to replace the crook ones I could get away with just a new inverter. No! There seem to be some compatibility issues there and the new inverter guarantee would probably be void if installed with old 250 watt panels and there was a problem.
So with all those road blocks it looks like I throw it all away and get a new system. I reckon I’ve probably broken even with the initial capital outlay as systems were more expensive back then and it also cost extra to have it rack mounted on the shed cos the house roof is less than ideal for solar.
As they are installing a new system the government/power company I’m told is generously reducing the 7 cents per kw I export to the grid down to 2 cents per Kw and after 4pm it goes to 10 cents per Kw. Great incentive there. Wow soon they be offering $'s per Kw all night!
As far as I know there is no recycling facility for old panels in WA so they probably will go to landfill. Same probably for the inverter.
While I consider myself sensibly green I am beginning to think that home solar systems are just another scam.
Interesting, given our lifestyle and use case at the time I did not gi with solar as there was not even a break even point in opportunity cost vs recoupment. Especially as I had no faith in the inverters lasting. Some have done better. I would be more tempted today .
Regards
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it will introduce the 1.2c/kWh export charge in July – but only as an “opt-in” exercise – as in, customers will have to request to be involved,
Are they expecting many people to willingly offer to pay more ??? ::)
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Sounds like the LPG on cars gig of few decades ago... get everyone hooked on cheap gas, then up the price.
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Are they expecting many people to willingly offer to pay more ??? ::)
I’d hope not, but it’s mandatory in 2025.
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Not sure if I should put this here or in the “what made you smile section. Just checked the first day on the new solar battery system with my provider AGL, we bought 22cents of power and sold them 29cents worth (at 5cents per kw feed in)
Battery monitor is telling me we are now 99% self sufficient.
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Hi, when first installed, we still had the old style meter in the power box .
I loved watching it run backwards.
Unfortunately it was (of course) soon replaced with a cryptic, boring, shiny new one.
Cheers
Typed with phat fumbs
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Our wonderful governments are so far out of touch with reality when it comes to solar and green energy.
We know they're off with the fairies trying to change the weather with solar panels and windmills and they know we know but they don't care because they're in charge of fairyland and all the taxeater snouts in the trough-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/wake-up-call-on-energy-transition-as-voters-switch-off/ar-BB1qMQpp (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/wake-up-call-on-energy-transition-as-voters-switch-off/ar-BB1qMQpp)
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This is our 10 year old 5.7kW system "pumping" out the power.
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A challenge for the weather worrying elites. Just show us ONE communal electricity grid demonstration project in Canberra with full user pays even without the full electrification of transport in ACT. No generation or heating with coal oil gas imported biofuels or dodgy offsets from outside the ACT borders. Just your pure firmed green fickle electricity all paid for via your power bills so we skeptics can see you're not talking dribble OK?
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UPDATE:
I had a whole new system installed today conditional on getting a WiFi range extender installed on the house as the solar is on the shed some 30 something meters from the house. Apparently, in WA, when a new or replacement system is installed the power company requires (mandatory) access to the inverter to shut it down if they wish. Big brother is watching! That also allows me to monitor performance on my PC and mobile, so that's a bonus.
I looked at getting batteries, going off grid etc but found the setup cost prohibitive with FA chance of recouping the outlay in my lifetime. In fact, on review of our specific power consumption profile I was dissuaded from going down that path.
Given my initial post you may be wondering why I went with solar again.
The reason is three fold.
1. My insurance company accepted the claim and I will not be out of pocket. If the claim was rejected I probably would not have gone down this path.
2. A slightly larger system with different panel orientation should generate sufficient spread of power during the day to run our household, pool pump, etc. We have had from day one a timeline for when to run appliances etc to best utilise power generation.
3. Can't wait to start counting the $$$'s when I am receiving the generous 2 cents a unit (was 7 cents) from the lucrative buyback scheme, NOT.
Well, I'll see how things go as I at least have the experience with the old system to compare with.
Will report back with anything worthwhile.
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Dodgy dudes attracted to dodgy thin air derivatives-
https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/solar-installers-cheated-out-of-millions/ar-AA1oM0Jk (https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia/solar-installers-cheated-out-of-millions/ar-AA1oM0Jk)
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2. A slightly larger system with different panel orientation should generate sufficient spread of power during the day to run our household, pool pump, etc. We have had from day one a timeline for when to run appliances etc to best utilise power generation.
So maybe this is too simplistic - but solar with no batteries only makes sense if you time everything to run during the sunny hours of the day - maybe with timers etc?
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So maybe this is too simplistic - but solar with no batteries only makes sense if you time everything to run during the sunny hours of the day - maybe with timers etc?
Pretty much that's what we do. The pool is on a timer and so are the 5 batteries charger/maintainers in the caravan, tractor, ride on mowers etc.
Our house has gas hot water and a tile fire for heating. Dishwasher, washing machine, bore pump etc are time tabled to run during sun peak hours. At night the house is on grid power of course to run the TV, PC, pressure pump and lights (all are LEDS). Only big appliance is electric stove but have to live with that. I figure that's about the best we can do. Given how we operate I could not see the benefit over outlay for a battery system.
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This is a interesting offering from east coast suppliers and how you can take advantage of the 3 hours of free power per day, 11am to 2 pm. need a battery system and smart meter though.
Quote from facebook post from FPV Power.
"UPDATE ON HOW TO GO OFF GRID WHILST ON GRID WITHOUT SOLAR PANELS!! 😱🤔
OVO an Electricity Retailers like AGL, etc. have now extended their service to those without a solar panel system.
This means you can get their FREE 3 PLAN, FREE POWER (UNLIMITED) for 3 hours, 11am—2pm, every day, 7 days a week.
My 10 min video exploring the concept.
https://youtu.be/piYdFLQ90wo?si=RGH5DiYlbwgjlF8j
HARDWARE NEEDED:
DEYE Hybrid inverter (size it according to your needs, 5kw or 8kw etc)
FPV POWER 17.4kwh battery (https://www.facebook.com/groups/SuperCapAustralia/permalink/1428334184443614)
Hook it up OFF GRID, and use the GRID TO ONLY CHARGE at those free times; there is no EXPORT if power to the Grid (as u have to Solar), you are using your system totally off-grid, and the grid is only used for charging, even when the grid goes down, brownouts, temp power cut etc.. you will still have power ( provided the battery has a charge), and u can also use Genny connected to the DEYE hybrid inverter to charge your battery when the grid dies for an extended amount of time.
Make use of the smart Deye inverter TIME OF USE ( TOU) setting to only charge when power is FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE !
Check this www.ovoenergy.com.au/refer/ian4218 link to find your address and see if you can use OVO's plan. At the moment, this is only for the east coast of Australia, but not all parts of Australia.
If you can get the Free 3 Plan, feel free to contact me and discuss options and solutions!
At the end of the day Cost vs performance vs return on investment made!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piYdFLQ90wo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piYdFLQ90wo)
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Well done RebsWA, glad the insurance came up with the money.
I haven't heard or seen anything from Synergy, but I think we are now on the generous 2c as well.
Luckily the EV is charged with the excess power only so no importing for charging.