MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: jmorgan1981 on March 03, 2018, 06:18:02 PM
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Hi there.
So I am after some advice on a Bullbar and side steps.
I have a white 2017 Mazda BT50 Dual Cab and am looking at putting on a Bullbar and side steps (Black).
I was thinking ARB or Ironman as I like the look of those two brands.
Can anybody give me any feedback on the difference in quality between the two. The guy at the shop told me that ARB are the pick by along way but I also discoverd the price was also consistent of that.
ARB Bullbar and side steps a bit over $4,000
Ironman $2,700
Now these are fitted prices and I have no real issues with them. I just want some opions on both bars and steps to see if it is worth the difference to go the ARB.
That money could really go towards driving lights or suspension etc.
I did see some stuff around the internet but it was all a few years old and my understanding is that Ironman has come along way and ARB is now manufactured overseas (this could be wrong so correct me if so).
John
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Hi John, as you know bullbars = weight. What else do you plan on adding, winches, canopy etc? it’s very easy to run into over weight issues on the front axle (and also the rear), for this reason i fitted a poly Smartbar, about half the weight of a steel bull bar. A link to my vehicle with photos of the Smartbar is here;
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=46602.msg791608#msg791608 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=46602.msg791608#msg791608)
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I went TJM bars as they do have built in recovery points "rated" recovery points. http://www.tjm.com.au/en-oceania/product/tjm-outback-bull-bar-suit-mazda-bt-50-2015?make=135&model=140&vehicle=1860&series=1860 (http://www.tjm.com.au/en-oceania/product/tjm-outback-bull-bar-suit-mazda-bt-50-2015?make=135&model=140&vehicle=1860&series=1860)
Does the either of the ARB or Ironman bull bars have built in recovery points? -- At the time 2 years ago when I was looking at bull bars for a Ford Ranger neither of the ARB or Ironman bull bars had recovery points built in -- things might have change, it may be a good idea to ask, as purchasing aftermarket recovery points can be an expensive exercise.
:cheers:
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Hi John, as you know bullbars = weight. What else do you plan on adding, winches, canopy etc? it’s very easy to run into over weight issues on the front axle (and also the rear), for this reason i fitted a poly Smartbar, about half the weight of a steel bull bar. A link to my vehicle with photos of the Smartbar is here;
http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=46602.msg791608#msg791608 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=46602.msg791608#msg791608)
Thanks supersi
I already have a canopy and am not sure re winch in the future. I will put on driving lights and UHF.
I did ask about the need for a suspension upgrade and the guy that usually looks after that was not in. I was going to ring next week.
Thanks for the reply.
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I went TJM bars as they do have built in recovery points "rated" recovery points. http://www.tjm.com.au/en-oceania/product/tjm-outback-bull-bar-suit-mazda-bt-50-2015?make=135&model=140&vehicle=1860&series=1860 (http://www.tjm.com.au/en-oceania/product/tjm-outback-bull-bar-suit-mazda-bt-50-2015?make=135&model=140&vehicle=1860&series=1860)
Does the either of the ARB or Ironman bull bars have built in recovery points? -- At the time 2 years ago when I was looking at bull bars for a Ford Ranger neither of the ARB or Ironman bull bars had recovery points built in -- things might have change, it may be a good idea to ask, as purchasing aftermarket recovery points can be an expensive exercise.
:cheers:
Cyberess
No idea about the recovery points. I will look into that.
Thanks for the tip.
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If you want to keep your standard suspension check out Smartbar, works just as well as ARB and TJM, but about 40 kilo lighter.
I have had both, TJM was better than the ARB imo.
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If you want to keep your standard suspension check out Smartbar, works just as well as ARB and TJM, but about 40 kilo lighter.
I have had both, TJM was better than the ARB imo.
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Thanks
I think I will look into the smartbar. How do they look?
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Thanks
I think I will look into the smartbar. How do they look?
down right hideous IMO, but each to their own.
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down right hideous IMO, but each to their own.
X2, It's got that gay look.
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down right hideous IMO, but each to their own.
and thats being polite about it...
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Have a look at the smart ‘stealth’ bar. Not too bad to look at. Never seen a smart bar with brush rails though.
I work where a fleet of px rangers are exposed to accelerated weathering (dredged heavy industrial pre load site - salt everywhere)
Some of them got Ironman bars and after a year or two you could see why they are so cheap. I have arb on my current Ute and I don’t think it is as well made as my last TJM fleet bar which was cheaper.
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I already have a canopy and am not sure re winch in the future. I will put on driving lights and UHF.
I did ask about the need for a suspension upgrade
Interesting question with bullbars generally as the trip up to Inna and Bourke with a naked Challenger concentrated the mind with the number of emus about and the lad having been stranded with a big roo that tore the radiator hose in two on a Subaru Liberty wagon. So what did I really need? Well the Mitsi has recovery hooks and I don't really need a winch towing a Jayco solo. Steel bars are heavy so a genuine Mitsi alloy perhaps since with a trade order it was $1860 vs ECB at $2500?
It was then I realised the big roo the lad hit would have bent an alloy bulbar most likely into the bodywork somewhat so what's the point? So I saw a newish genuine alloy Mitsi nudge bar on Gumtree for $300 and glad I chose genuine looking into those fancy brackets as PCs are different to PB models as are Tritons. So now if a roo belts it I reckon I'll still be able to drive on and leave insurance to take care of a new nudge bar and any body damage. Sorted a secondhand one for the lad's Triton for only $175 but there's more of them around as they ditch them for bullbars.
What do you need and why is the first question you want to ask yourself and bugger the looks unless you're into pissing contests.
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Interesting question with bullbars generally as the trip up to Inna and Bourke with a naked Challenger concentrated the mind with the number of emus about and the lad having been stranded with a big roo that tore the radiator hose in two on a Subaru Liberty wagon. So what did I really need? Well the Mitsi has recovery hooks and I don't really need a winch towing a Jayco solo. Steel bars are heavy so a genuine Mitsi alloy perhaps since with a trade order it was $1860 vs ECB at $2500?
It was then I realised the big roo the lad hit would have bent an alloy bulbar most likely into the bodywork somewhat so what's the point? So I saw a newish genuine alloy Mitsi nudge bar on Gumtree for $300 and glad I chose genuine looking into those fancy brackets as PCs are different to PB models as are Tritons. So now if a roo belts it I reckon I'll still be able to drive on and leave insurance to take care of a new nudge bar and any body damage. Sorted a secondhand one for the lad's Triton for only $175 but there's more of them around as they ditch them for bullbars.
What do you need and why is the first question you want to ask yourself and bugger the looks unless you're into pissing contests.
Thanks Prodigyrf
I have thought about the nudge bar as well. I'm not to sure which way to go yet.
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Factory suspension ont the BT50 is useless, particularlly if you plan on towing and carrying a load.
When I changed mine over a few years ago it was chalk and cheese driving out from the shop that switched it over, latter that day even the missus could feel the difference in the ride.
Oh, the TJM bar, looks best on the vehicle, is a full bumper replacement, not a cut.
Even if you dont need a winch now, worth having space for it?
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I have thought about the nudge bar as well. I'm not to sure which way to go yet.
Like I said I gave it a bit of thought and like many I'm driving around the city more than country travelling but you don't want to get stranded if you get unlucky like my son and I've had a few near misses and 2 hits at quite low speeds and you never see the hits coming. But what finally swayed me was Mitsis excellent nudge bar set up that should save the vitals and keep you mobile as you can see here with its wide loop and bottom crossbar-
- https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/torquay/cars-vans-utes/2015-mitsubishi-challenger-suv/1176843735 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/torquay/cars-vans-utes/2015-mitsubishi-challenger-suv/1176843735)
OTOH here's Mitsis typical full alloy bull bar-
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/winnellie/cars-vans-utes/2013-mitsubishi-triton-mn-my13-glx-double-cab-white-solid-5-speed-manual-utility/1172755125 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/winnellie/cars-vans-utes/2013-mitsubishi-triton-mn-my13-glx-double-cab-white-solid-5-speed-manual-utility/1172755125)
but that big roo the son hit on the RH side and he punted up the road 30 metres with $8500 worth of damage would have bent the corner of that bullbar into the bodywork anyway and there's $2.5k R&R before you spit. I want the nudge bar and bodywork to give and leave the radiator and chassis intact but I understand heavy bullbars and suspension mods if you're into winching.
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Factory suspension ont the BT50 is useless, particularlly if you plan on towing and carrying a load.
When I changed mine over a few years ago it was chalk and cheese driving out from the shop that switched it over, latter that day even the missus could feel the difference in the ride.
Oh, the TJM bar, looks best on the vehicle, is a full bumper replacement, not a cut.
Even if you dont need a winch now, worth having space for it?
Sent from my SM-T815Y using Tapatalk
I will give the guys a call re the suspension.
It was something I was thinking about anyway.
Thanks
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Like I said I gave it a bit of thought and like many I'm driving around the city more than country travelling but you don't want to get stranded if you get unlucky like my son and I've had a few near misses and 2 hits at quite low speeds and you never see the hits coming. But what finally swayed me was Mitsis excellent nudge bar set up that should save the vitals and keep you mobile as you can see here with its wide loop and bottom crossbar-
- https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/torquay/cars-vans-utes/2015-mitsubishi-challenger-suv/1176843735 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/torquay/cars-vans-utes/2015-mitsubishi-challenger-suv/1176843735)
OTOH here's Mitsis typical full alloy bull bar-
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/winnellie/cars-vans-utes/2013-mitsubishi-triton-mn-my13-glx-double-cab-white-solid-5-speed-manual-utility/1172755125 (https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/winnellie/cars-vans-utes/2013-mitsubishi-triton-mn-my13-glx-double-cab-white-solid-5-speed-manual-utility/1172755125)
but that big roo the son hit on the RH side and he punted up the road 30 metres with $8500 worth of damage would have bent the corner of that bullbar into the bodywork anyway and there's $2.5k R&R before you spit. I want the nudge bar and bodywork to give and leave the radiator and chassis intact but I understand heavy bullbars and suspension mods if you're into winching.
Thanks for all the info.
I'm in Port Macquarie but do alot of km's north up to casino and that is mostly late afternoon. So roos are an issue.
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If roo's, other animals, trees or winches (using it for 4x4) are your thing then steel mate, and when it comes to that ARB. Other major brands are imported with free rust including personally seeing a few brand new just unwrapped TJM bars like that. I've had other name brand on old pajero and same thing. was a chinese knock off arb design. Hitting big animals is not so much about stopping all damage, its about ensuring you can keep moving afterwards to get home or to services.
Doing anything in the front of the BT will need better suspension and you will be thankful for it. Done 100k on my OME +300 front and rear setup without issues. shocks are due for replacement now though.
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What makes you think arb bars are made in Australia ?
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Hi there.
So I am after some advice on a Bullbar and side steps.
I have a white 2017 Mazda BT50 Dual Cab and am looking at putting on a Bullbar and side steps (Black).
I was thinking ARB or Ironman as I like the look of those two brands.
Can anybody give me any feedback on the difference in quality between the two. The guy at the shop told me that ARB are the pick by along way but I also discoverd the price was also consistent of that.
ARB Bullbar and side steps a bit over $4,000
Ironman $2,700
Now these are fitted prices and I have no real issues with them. I just want some opions on both bars and steps to see if it is worth the difference to go the ARB.
That money could really go towards driving lights or suspension etc.
I did see some stuff around the internet but it was all a few years old and my understanding is that Ironman has come along way and ARB is now manufactured overseas (this could be wrong so correct me if so).
John
Hi John
I looked at the Arb for my Amarok, but could not justify the price at $4k. I bought the Ironman deluxe winch bar for $1200, plus $150 for colour coding and $150 fitting. I have had it side by side the arb one and cannot tell the difference, even the zigzag reinforcement inside the bar looks the same and weld quality looks identical. I believe they have gone up and my fitting must have been cheap. Would not go with the arb bar again now and I have owned several brand new. When I asked arb why my last bar was $1200 3 years before and this one was $4k, he said they are not the same bars any more. Strange as they were both deluxe winch bars, still their loss not mine
Lloyd
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I put a TJM bar on my BT50.
I like ARB stuff and think that generally it is well designed... if a little pricey.
But the bar for the Ranger/BT50, they could have put in a bit more effort.
The bar looks good, but to get a recovery point it is extra $$ for the recovery point that bolts to the front diff cross member, of course you can't use the standard sump guard either as it won't fit the recovery point, so you have to buy that as well.
Seriously? A recovery point attached to the lowest point (well, almost) under the vehicle so you have to attach a recovery strap before you get stuck and risk damaging or snagging the strap while you traverse the obstacle ???. Get bogged and you are down for some serious spade work or possibly a snorkel before you can find it.
I seriously considered the Ironman gear, but managed to find the new TJM bar for the same price and fitted it myself. Before you buy it though, climb underneath and have a good look how it is mounted to the chassis.
I know with the factory Mazda bars they had a lot of issues as the mounts weren't up to the job of the bar bouncing up and down. There were a lot of complaints from those ones and dodgy mounts.
Side steps, I also went with TJM as it was on special (sensing a theme here) and I knew they were compatible. They aren't as heavy duty as I would like, but provide some protection to the sills and you you will be hard pressed to find some rock sliders that are side airbag compatible.
As for suspension, I liked the stock suspension, but its not up to the job of carrying an extra 40kg on the front. I put in heavy duty King Springs ($200) after the bar as I was planning on getting a winch. Even with the winch in there they are still a tad on the stiff side. I just swapped the springs and re-installed the struts as there was nothing wrong with them.
It isn't a hard job to swap the struts, but get someone to load the springs onto them for you. There is a heap of tension in those things and bloody dangerous to do armed only with some spring compressors and a vice. I destroyed 2 compressors attempting it.
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The 2 rangers we got in 2013 were pre delivered with rusty arb bars. Pinholes in the powdercoat over the welds. Not what I’d call great quality.
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I put a TJM bar on my BT50.
I like ARB stuff and think that generally it is well designed... if a little pricey.
But the bar for the Ranger/BT50, they could have put in a bit more effort.
The bar looks good, but to get a recovery point it is extra $$ for the recovery point that bolts to the front diff cross member, of course you can't use the standard sump guard either as it won't fit the recovery point, so you have to buy that as well.
Seriously? A recovery point attached to the lowest point (well, almost) under the vehicle so you have to attach a recovery strap before you get stuck and risk damaging or snagging the strap while you traverse the obstacle ???. Get bogged and you are down for some serious spade work or possibly a snorkel before you can find it.
I seriously considered the Ironman gear, but managed to find the new TJM bar for the same price and fitted it myself. Before you buy it though, climb underneath and have a good look how it is mounted to the chassis.
I know with the factory Mazda bars they had a lot of issues as the mounts weren't up to the job of the bar bouncing up and down. There were a lot of complaints from those ones and dodgy mounts.
Side steps, I also went with TJM as it was on special (sensing a theme here) and I knew they were compatible. They aren't as heavy duty as I would like, but provide some protection to the sills and you you will be hard pressed to find some rock sliders that are side airbag compatible.
As for suspension, I liked the stock suspension, but its not up to the job of carrying an extra 40kg on the front. I put in heavy duty King Springs ($200) after the bar as I was planning on getting a winch. Even with the winch in there they are still a tad on the stiff side. I just swapped the springs and re-installed the struts as there was nothing wrong with them.
It isn't a hard job to swap the struts, but get someone to load the springs onto them for you. There is a heap of tension in those things and bloody dangerous to do armed only with some spring compressors and a vice. I destroyed 2 compressors attempting it.
How have you found the TJM Bar? I have a quote coming from them in the next day or so.
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Its a fair lump of steel. I can't really comment on the finish as it had a few marks on it and that's why I got it for a serious discount. The powder coating seems to be a good thickness though, its been on there for 2 years and no rust marks have shown up. There is a good carpark scuff someone installed for me, but it didn't penetrate the powdercoat (I don't think they got away quite as damage free).
I haven't tested the impact resistance either, although it has come close with some suicidal macropods. It happily mounts winch, a UHF antenna, 2 driving lights and a light bar.
There was a bit of a stuff around when I bought the side steps as the clamps to attach the scrub bars to the bull bar didn't line up, but that was down to a design change between when my bar was made and the newer models. They supplied brackets with a slightly different angle without too many issues.
The bar does appear to move around a bit, but its really an illusion. The bar is ridged onto the chassis, but the body mounts allow for a fair bit of relative movement, which explains the need for 19mm gaps between the front guards and the bar wings.
The winch cradle incorporates the recovery points and the whole cradle is bolted to the chassis with a bag full of bolts (at least a dozen 10/12mm bolts), the bar then bolts to the cradle with more bolts. Only 2 holes have to be drilled to lock it in alignment.
To use the recovery points you are meant to use a bridle to tie them both together and get the full rating. I really haven't used them yet as I've been lucky in regards to getting stuck and only used the winch.
Another bonus of the TJM design is the mounting of a winch; most you need to either take the bar off to install a winch or load it in from the bottom.
With the bar designed for the BT50, remove the grille and the winch can be dropped in from the top which makes that installation job a lot easier as well as much easier to service and maintain the winch. If its easier to do, then you are more likely to actually do the maintenance.
(https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?attachments/img_0634-jpg.49182/)
Things I don't like; The relative movement between the bar and the body cracked the locating tabs off the bottom of the grille and that started flapping in the breeze. It was fixed with 2 zip ties, so hardly a major fail.
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Its a fair lump of steel. I can't really comment on the finish as it had a few marks on it and that's why I got it for a serious discount. The powder coating seems to be a good thickness though, its been on there for 2 years and no rust marks have shown up. There is a good carpark scuff someone installed for me, but it didn't penetrate the powdercoat (I don't think they got away quite as damage free).
I haven't tested the impact resistance either, although it has come close with some suicidal macropods. It happily mounts winch, a UHF antenna, 2 driving lights and a light bar.
There was a bit of a stuff around when I bought the side steps as the clamps to attach the scrub bars to the bull bar didn't line up, but that was down to a design change between when my bar was made and the newer models. They supplied brackets with a slightly different angle without too many issues.
The bar does appear to move around a bit, but its really an illusion. The bar is ridged onto the chassis, but the body mounts allow for a fair bit of relative movement, which explains the need for 19mm gaps between the front guards and the bar wings.
The winch cradle incorporates the recovery points and the whole cradle is bolted to the chassis with a bag full of bolts (at least a dozen 10/12mm bolts), the bar then bolts to the cradle with more bolts. Only 2 holes have to be drilled to lock it in alignment.
To use the recovery points you are meant to use a bridle to tie them both together and get the full rating. I really haven't used them yet as I've been lucky in regards to getting stuck and only used the winch.
Another bonus of the TJM design is the mounting of a winch; most you need to either take the bar off to install a winch or load it in from the bottom.
With the bar designed for the BT50, remove the grille and the winch can be dropped in from the top which makes that installation job a lot easier as well as much easier to service and maintain the winch. If its easier to do, then you are more likely to actually do the maintenance.
(https://4x4earth.com/forum/index.php?attachments/img_0634-jpg.49182/)
Things I don't like; The relative movement between the bar and the body cracked the locating tabs off the bottom of the grille and that started flapping in the breeze. It was fixed with 2 zip ties, so hardly a major fail.
Cheers Hoyks.
I think I'm sold on them. I just need it to be signed off by the cheese and kisses
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Cheers Hoyks.
I think I'm sold on them. I just need it to be signed off by the cheese and kisses
Good luck.
Mine 'followed me home' and I was allowed to keep it..... she was angling to get a new car, so I think there was an ulterior motive >:D
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Best performance for weight is the Smartbar, but they have gone up in price since ARB bought them, you can get away without a suspension upgrade with them.
Perform as well or better than steel but 55 kilo for winch bar vs 85 for steel winch bar
Myles
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