Post by: lukeycat on February 02, 2018, 06:51:19 PM
My car weighs less than quite a few cars and larger 4x4s so technically should be less wear and tare on the road so why should I have to pay more.
Does this annoy anyone else.
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Post by: macca on February 02, 2018, 07:34:10 PM
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Post by: Hoyks on February 02, 2018, 07:41:08 PM
I lived in NSW for 10 years and refused to get an eTag. I didn't drive on the toll roads enough to really warrant it, but it was the 'eTag deposit' that I refused to pay.
Now, to my way of thinking; a deposit is a sum that you pay, but is to be refunded when you return the item in good condition.
Not in the NSW toll road system apparently. Back when I was looking they wanted the deposit, but when I told them I would be moving interstate within a few years, the girl at the call center couldn't tell me what the procedure was for getting the deposit re-funded.
The conversation went along the lines;
So, its not a deposit, its a fee?
No, its a non refundable deposit.
So why call it a deposit if there is no facility to re-fund the money? Am I buying the tag?
No, we retain ownership of the tag, you are just using it so we can bill you.
Needless to say I wasn't impressed.
I moved to Queensland and they don't want any $$ and give me all the tags I want for nothing. Right now I have 5 on my account.
They do have SE-QLD stitched up with toll roads though. I live west of the city, so to go north, south or to the airport you are funneled onto toll roads or have to allow at least an extra hour for the trip.
Post by: Alan Loy on February 02, 2018, 07:59:09 PM
Somewhere in the 90s we (collectively) got seduced by the "users pay" low tax model that we imported from the US
The consequence is that govts don't build roads or deal with electricity, gas or many other things. This is what happens.
The good bit is that you keep more money in your pay packet, the bad thing is that everything (including National Parks) costs $$$$$
This is the new life we all must live.
Post by: rossm on February 02, 2018, 08:51:43 PM
No toll roads, no pokies.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on February 02, 2018, 09:05:45 PM
It's now a Tollway for a section. They've effectively closed the road, unless your a privileged class of person, and pay for it.
State Government at its finest, make private industry pay for it and we'll suck off a percentage of the profits of the Tolls they charge, and take all the credit.
Post by: Tim - Stratford on February 02, 2018, 09:39:13 PM
Sarah
Post by: Paddler Ed on February 02, 2018, 09:50:49 PM
Although in saying that, shop around - VIC's visitor system was cheaper than the NSW one, even with a NSW rego'd ute and trailer...
Post by: KeithB on February 02, 2018, 11:31:51 PM
Post by: Ragman on February 03, 2018, 12:09:10 AM
Come to WA.
No toll roads, no pokies.
Shhhh
Post by: Patr80l on February 03, 2018, 06:16:20 AM
So I told them I didn't want to reopen the account and I opened an Eastlink account instead.
Part 2 of the insanity: I tried to pay the $7 I owed them online. "Minimum payment $20". In the end I told them that I have offered payment by their preferred method and they refused to accept that payment so the debt is cleared.
Didn't hear any more from them after that.
Post by: Spada on February 03, 2018, 07:21:35 AM
Whats to stop you opening an account in Brisbane, and using the tag in Melbourne ? Least then you're not paying a commercial rate for a falcon ute ?
Post by: macca on February 03, 2018, 07:31:17 AM
The Governments contract the building and operation of the tollways to private companies that have to go out into the market to raise the capital at commercial rates and then add some profit on top of that. Yet the Government can raise money much more cheaply through the issuing of bonds, which keeps the 'tollways" in public ownership. The whole thing stinks as far as i can see.Yeah but what your forgetting Keith is that if they borrow the money, they have to pay it back and they couldnt do that and maintain the lifestyle they are accustomed to
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Post by: #jonesy on February 03, 2018, 07:31:40 AM
I don’t use it much but hate that the wife’s car on weekends is a capped rate and the holiday is a pay per use.
Post by: macca on February 03, 2018, 07:37:51 AM
Come to WA.Give it time, corruption has a way of finding any perk anywhere
No toll roads, no pokies.
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Post by: Charlie Brown on February 03, 2018, 07:55:10 AM
Post by: austastar on February 03, 2018, 08:51:08 AM
We had a truck registered as a car, (non - commercial vehicle), as is allowed here (Tas) for campers etc.
I got a roasting from the toll booth operator north of Sydney (1978) for fronting up on the car lane.
He couldn't care less what the rego sticker said.
I hope to never again drive on any toll road.
Cheers
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Post by: Bird on February 03, 2018, 08:54:55 AM
Post by: DrewXT on February 03, 2018, 09:05:39 AM
What I have done is to cancel our SICE (Breeze) account and opened a GoVia account which is run by Transurban out of Queensland, who don't classify the Amarok as a commercial vehicle, nor do they charge you to top up the account the way I want to like NSW do.
Since switching at the start of 2016, we've saved over $500 in tolls as the Amarok is tolled like a car.
I'm like Luke, I carry a fridge, recovery gear and a few fishing rods most of the time...
To be honest, I can't see the current Victorian government looking at it. The Liberal Party have said they'll look at it, but I'm not holding my breath
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Post by: Fizzie on February 03, 2018, 09:18:11 AM
all of the tolling tags work interstate as the toll companies have linked systems.
Whats to stop you opening an account in Brisbane, and using the tag in Melbourne ?
Nothing as far as I can tell, Spada ???
I think the system only needs a rego number & an address to send the tag to - if an interstate address is a problem for some reason, there's lot's of Qld swaggers ;D >:D
In Victoria you don't pay a deposit but must keep at least $40 in your account.
No deposit in Qld either, & only $20 minimum :D
Anyone interested, please have a look at https://www.govia.com.au (https://www.govia.com.au)
Post by: corndog on February 03, 2018, 10:43:55 AM
Post by: Charlie Brown on February 03, 2018, 11:34:56 AM
I put off using toll roads for a very long time. I use them now coming home from work when needed as it saves anything from 30-60mins depending on traffic. If there is a crash on the toll road I save no time but still get slugged a charge. I would have used toll roads earlier except for the fact that the profits go overseas. Be interesting just how much has gone overseas. I have a Landcruiser and a Ranger (with canopy) both used privately so basically the same type of vehicle. One I pay non commercial and one commercial rego, not much difference in price. The toll for a trip is much bigger on the Ranger even though the Landcruiser is heavier. What bugs me more than the tolls is the fact that we virtually sold our roads off to overseas for 40 odd years so they can make millions of dollars a year in profits and in the end we have just a road.
Simple, don’t use the toll roads. Not rocket science.
Post by: corndog on February 03, 2018, 11:43:41 AM
Simple, don’t use the toll roads. Not rocket science.
Or I could stop driving and catch a train.
Post by: Bird on February 03, 2018, 12:55:02 PM
Quote from: Charlie Brown
Simple, don’t use the toll roads. Not rocket science.yea hour n half (sometimes was more than 2 hours) on the Monash carpark or 30mins on the tollway...
Post by: Pottsy on February 03, 2018, 01:43:37 PM
Post by: lukeycat on February 03, 2018, 06:51:50 PM
I'm VP of the Club behind the push to try and get the government to sort out the tolling system. Luke Donnellan who's the Minister for transport doesn't give a rat's bum, because Transurban and SICE/Thiess/John Holland have an agreement that has the vehicle classifications in it that's a hard and fast contact the government aren't prepared to try to renegotiate.
What I have done is to cancel our SICE (Breeze) account and opened a GoVia account which is run by Transurban out of Queensland, who don't classify the Amarok as a commercial vehicle, nor do they charge you to top up the account the way I want to like NSW do.
Since switching at the start of 2016, we've saved over $500 in tolls as the Amarok is tolled like a car.
I'm like Luke, I carry a fridge, recovery gear and a few fishing rods most of the time...
To be honest, I can't see the current Victorian government looking at it. The Liberal Party have said they'll look at it, but I'm not holding my breath
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That's handy have just signed up will cancel the breeze account when the new tag arrives and see how it goes.
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Post by: Charlie Brown on February 03, 2018, 06:57:18 PM
yea hour n half (sometimes was more than 2 hours) on the Monash carpark or 30mins on the tollway...
So if you chose to use a toll road, for whatever reason, then you have made a conscious decision to pay for that privilage. Don’t f**king whinge about the cost. Nobody forced you to choose the toll road, there are alternatives.
Post by: lukeycat on February 03, 2018, 07:00:47 PM
So if you chose to use a toll road, for whatever reason, then you have made a conscious decision to pay for that privilage. Don’t f**king whinge about the cost. Nobody forced you to choose the toll road, there are alternatives.Mate I'd say that's fair enough but two of the roads in Melbourne which are toll roads were originally freeways and the government sold their souls instead of paying for unless you live north west of the city there's not many options in getting to the airport etc, the other Toll road was an election promise which was a freeway with a lovely backflip when they won the election.
I don't mind paying to use the roads either I just want it to be fair my ute weighs less than a 200 series and has a lower GCM why should I have to pay double what they pay?
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Post by: macca on February 03, 2018, 07:21:18 PM
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Post by: jwb on February 03, 2018, 07:27:36 PM
the charge was (my tow truck max 10 ton) the same as a semi/ b double = $10.20 one way IIRC
10 ton v 60 ton! very fair! NOT!
bugged me big time!
Post by: Charlie Brown on February 03, 2018, 08:08:55 PM
I don't mind paying to use the roads either I just want it to be fair my ute weighs less than a 200 series and has a lower GCM why should I have to pay double what they pay?
Fully agree and support your arguement. It is not fair.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on February 03, 2018, 08:10:48 PM
Only fair way.
Post by: Charlie Brown on February 03, 2018, 08:11:10 PM
Keep fishing Charlie, youll get s bite soon
Not fishing for anything unlike many of your posts. I was simply expressing my opinion.
Post by: corndog on February 04, 2018, 05:42:41 AM
I'm VP of the Club behind the push to try and get the government to sort out the tolling system. Luke Donnellan who's the Minister for transport doesn't give a rat's bum, because Transurban and SICE/Thiess/John Holland have an agreement that has the vehicle classifications in it that's a hard and fast contact the government aren't prepared to try to renegotiate.
What I have done is to cancel our SICE (Breeze) account and opened a GoVia account which is run by Transurban out of Queensland, who don't classify the Amarok as a commercial vehicle, nor do they charge you to top up the account the way I want to like NSW do.
Since switching at the start of 2016, we've saved over $500 in tolls as the Amarok is tolled like a car.
I'm like Luke, I carry a fridge, recovery gear and a few fishing rods most of the time...
To be honest, I can't see the current Victorian government looking at it. The Liberal Party have said they'll look at it, but I'm not holding my breath
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I thought that they checked interstate etags and charged the account to the type of vehicle. I worked with a guy that was one of the first to do this and he got away with it for a while but ended up paying the higher toll charge anyway. I looked at doing it and found a newspaper article on him when searching google. If it's working for you your lucky.
Post by: lukeycat on February 04, 2018, 07:11:42 AM
I thought that they checked interstate etags and charged the account to the type of vehicle. I worked with a guy that was one of the first to do this and he got away with it for a while but ended up paying the higher toll charge anyway. I looked at doing it and found a newspaper article on him when searching google. If it's working for you your lucky.
Will see how I go I had my car originally as Touareg trying to beat the toll system after about 18 months got a letter saying my tag didn't match its vehicle type as transurban and eastlink have two different types of tag depending on what your driving maybe it related to that?
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Post by: Spada on February 04, 2018, 08:07:58 AM
Tolls should be based on Gross weight of the vehicle.
Only fair way.
or distance travelled.............
In Brisbane the 2 major toll roads are the Logan Motorway and the Gateway Motorway that transverse North - South and East - West. Brisbane is divided in half by a river, If you live and travel on the South side using those motorways, 3 tolls for you.................If you travel the same distance on the toll roads North side of the river........No tolls for you ?
I think a fairer tolling method would be to have a camera at every on/off ramp. and charge based on the distance of the toll road used. There are sections of these toll roads that become gridlocked during peak hour every day by vehicles that effectively do not go through any tolling points, so the road is not "user pays", it is "users that pay subsidise those that don't"
Post by: rags on February 04, 2018, 10:19:07 AM
or distance travelled.............
In Brisbane the 2 major toll roads are the Logan Motorway and the Gateway Motorway that transverse North - South and East - West. Brisbane is divided in half by a river, If you live and travel on the South side using those motorways, 3 tolls for you.................If you travel the same distance on the toll roads North side of the river........No tolls for you ?
I think a fairer tolling method would be to have a camera at every on/off ramp. and charge based on the distance of the toll road used. There are sections of these toll roads that become gridlocked during peak hour every day by vehicles that effectively do not go through any tolling points, so the road is not "user pays", it is "users that pay subsidise those that don't"
Spada, I Don't quite get your 1st point. Living on the north side I will add in addition to the gateway toll we have the legacy tunnel toll, clem 7 toll and airport tunnel toll but like on the south side you can avoid using them.
I agree with the point to point tolling method like it is done on the Sydney M7.
Post by: Rumpig on February 04, 2018, 11:09:42 AM
or distance travelled.............the main toll is for crossing the Gateway Bridge, not for driving the motorway to it...hence why distance has nothing to do with it. It was always the way, even way back when the Gateway Motorway was a 2 lane road with numerous roundabouts on it that only joined up to the M1 and not The Logan. They are 2 ompletely seperate road projects that got joined up years after each was built, hence why there is no relation to Northside and Southside.
In Brisbane the 2 major toll roads are the Logan Motorway and the Gateway Motorway that transverse North - South and East - West. Brisbane is divided in half by a river, If you live and travel on the South side using those motorways, 3 tolls for you.................If you travel the same distance on the toll roads North side of the river........No tolls for you ?
I think a fairer tolling method would be to have a camera at every on/off ramp. and charge based on the distance of the toll road used. There are sections of these toll roads that become gridlocked during peak hour every day by vehicles that effectively do not go through any tolling points, so the road is not "user pays", it is "users that pay subsidise those that don't"
Post by: GBC on February 04, 2018, 11:46:12 AM
Post by: Spada on February 04, 2018, 12:38:08 PM
Legacy way, airport link, east west. How long is it since you drove on the Northside?
I understand that yes there are tolls on the Northside, the point of my post was not to start a north v south war. What I meant was that the Gateway and Logan motorways were intended to link the extremities of Brisbane so travellers and heavy vehicles travelling from any direction did not need to use any of the main suburban feeders and effectively bypass Brisbane, but they are being choked by commuters who in a lot of cases avoid the tolls.
Trucks travelling from the ports to the Cunningham or Warrego Hwy are effectively forced onto the Logan motorway (and pay several tolls) because of the fines in place if they use Kessels Rd to avoid the tolls.
All of the other toll roads in Brisbane largely were built to relieve congestion during peaks and are not on major highways as such, and really only benefit commuters.
Post by: BaseCamp on February 04, 2018, 12:56:18 PM
However, it's the taxpayer that's paid for, and has picked up the tab for every road feeding into that money muncher...
Great work when you can get it.... construct and pay for the bridges -(being your business model); but get others to pay for the conveyor belts that feed products into your business...
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Post by: Bunyip on February 06, 2018, 04:35:41 PM
So if you chose to use a toll road, for whatever reason, then you have made a conscious decision to pay for that privilage. Don’t f**king whinge about the cost. Nobody forced you to choose the toll road, there are alternatives.
In Sydney they intentionally closed the surface roads (it was part of the Public Private Partnership agreement) when opening the cross city tunnel. Yes there were alternatives to not paying, but they forced you a very very long way around for the privilege of not paying the toll. There was no other way to make the tunnel commercially viable than to "encourage" people to use it.
Post by: Bird on February 06, 2018, 05:37:46 PM
In Sydney they intentionally closed the surface roads (it was part of the Public Private Partnership agreement) when opening the cross city tunnel. Yes there were alternatives to not paying, but they forced you a very very long way around for the privilege of not paying the toll. There was no other way to make the tunnel commercially viable than to "encourage" people to use it.they did the same here... encourage? Force.. which is why theres no real choice. you take the optional roads and if theres a smash, your down 2-3 hours.
queue the load that should have been swallowed.
Post by: rags on February 06, 2018, 08:08:55 PM
In Sydney they intentionally closed the surface roads (it was part of the Public Private Partnership agreement) when opening the cross city tunnel. Yes there were alternatives to not paying, but they forced you a very very long way around for the privilege of not paying the toll. There was no other way to make the tunnel commercially viable than to "encourage" people to use it.
But they didn't close all the roads they just reduce a 3 lane road into 1 by making it a seperate cycle lane, a seperate bus lane oh and a single lane for motorists so they are reminded of the congestion.
I wonder if they will do similar to that on Pennant Hills Rd once the new tunnel is built.
Post by: scrubber on February 07, 2018, 09:18:58 AM
Just read an interesting article in the RACV mag which I could really relate to in regards to the scam of a system that transurban and eastlink run when it comes to vehicle classification. I drive a duel cab amarok and get slugged a fortune when I have to use the toll roads as it's considered a light commercial vehicle my car doesn't carry any tools (other than a beer fridge and recovery gear) or do anything commercially so I wouldn't say it's a commercial veichle . It annoys me as it's not being used for commercial purposes it's my family daily driver. If I was in nsw I'd pay based on the vehicle dimensions which is fair enough and if I was in qld it would only be if it was registered as a commercial car I would be slugged a commercial rate.
My car weighs less than quite a few cars and larger 4x4s so technically should be less wear and tare on the road so why should I have to pay more.
Does this annoy anyone else.
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In QLD, the vehicle has to registered as a commercial vehicle as well. I have 2 dual cab diesel 4x4 utes(1 cab chassis and 1 styleside/tub) and both of these have govia tags and are classified as Class 2 (cars). Seems to be a fairer way of doing it. That said I am strongly opposed to using tolls so GoVia rarely get a cent out of me.
https://www.govia.com.au/help/using-toll-roads/using-toll-roads-in-australia/what-is-my-vehicle-class (https://www.govia.com.au/help/using-toll-roads/using-toll-roads-in-australia/what-is-my-vehicle-class)
Post by: Hoyks on February 07, 2018, 09:41:19 AM
Oh, that's right. NSW tried that, but at the 5 year mark the 3c became 5c, then 8c/L, its been going for 20+ years now and they still built toll roads.
>:(
Post by: Bird on February 07, 2018, 09:59:43 AM
Ditch the tolls and put a levy on fuel, say 3 cents for 3 years, and use the money for roads. Bigger vehicles use more fuel and therefore pay more $$.same with harbour bridge... once a toll starts, theres no ending it - ever.
Oh, that's right. NSW tried that, but at the 5 year mark the 3c became 5c, then 8c/L, its been going for 20+ years now and they still built toll roads.
>:(
January 15, 2009 12:00am
IT remains one of the biggest mysteries for taxpayers across NSW; why are we still paying tolls on the Sydney Harbour Bridge?
Isn't it paid off? And the simple answer is, yes - of course it's paid off.
The original £9.6 million cost of the magnificent harbour crossing was in fact paid off 7399 days ago by the government of then NSW Premier Nick Greiner.
https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/dont-we-own-the-bridge-yet/news-story/470a79a8df85451a62546f1ee5a43a1f?sv=9d46fd6e74ef2ce70a1cf9189001bdf4 (https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/dont-we-own-the-bridge-yet/news-story/470a79a8df85451a62546f1ee5a43a1f?sv=9d46fd6e74ef2ce70a1cf9189001bdf4)
Post by: Hoyks on February 07, 2018, 10:13:56 AM
same with harbour bridge... once a toll starts, theres no ending it - ever.
I can only think of one, there used to be toll booths at the end of the M1 at Berowra.
Post by: #jonesy on February 07, 2018, 12:57:09 PM
I can only think of one, there used to be toll booths at the end of the M1 at Berowra.Westgate bridge Melbourne.
Post by: rags on February 07, 2018, 08:11:12 PM
I can only think of one, there used to be toll booths at the end of the M1 at Berowra.
Did the F? From Heathcote to Wollongong once have a toll?
Post by: Hoyks on February 07, 2018, 08:25:01 PM
http://blog.centennialparklands.com.au/moore-park-toll-house/ (http://blog.centennialparklands.com.au/moore-park-toll-house/)
Post by: GGV8Cruza on February 08, 2018, 08:39:43 AM
Did the F? From Heathcote to Wollongong once have a toll?
Pretty sure it did, never paid tolls myself but there was an old toll booth at the top of the hill from memory
GG
Post by: chester ver2.0 on February 09, 2018, 09:01:24 AM
Pretty sure it did, never paid tolls myself but there was an old toll booth at the top of the hill from memory
GG
Nah mate that booth was where they removed your indicators so you could drive like the rest of Sydney and not confuse the locals with those flashing yellow lights on the corners of your vehicle
Post by: ronmac on February 09, 2018, 09:58:54 AM
Pretty sure it did, never paid tolls myself but there was an old toll booth at the top of the hill from memory
GG
Most certainly was, from Waterfall to the Gong / 60cents. I used to travel it daily at times. cheers Ron.
Post by: Rumpig on February 09, 2018, 11:59:00 AM
I can only think of one, there used to be toll booths at the end of the M1 at Berowra.The Sunshine Coast Motorway used to be a toll road and isn't any more.
Post by: BaseCamp on February 09, 2018, 12:43:05 PM
The Sunshine Coast Motorway used to be a toll road and isn't any more.Wasn't that idea abandoned by former Premier Peter Beattie - because many people were just refusing to pay the toll - and just going a few metres bush next to the toll booths - taking a dirt track that cut around them.
Go the people power!!
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Post by: Pete79 on February 09, 2018, 01:02:06 PM
He’s been refusing to pay tolls for 7 years now, they haven’t caught up with him yet. ;)
https://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/forget-beating-a-breathalyser-this-guy-beats-the-t/3134401/ (https://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/forget-beating-a-breathalyser-this-guy-beats-the-t/3134401/)
Or just make a donation and let him do the fighting for you.
https://www.gofundme.com/bobjarvistollbuster (https://www.gofundme.com/bobjarvistollbuster)
Post by: Rumpig on February 09, 2018, 02:18:45 PM
Wasn't that idea abandoned by former Premier Peter Beattie - because many people were just refusing to pay the toll - and just going a few metres bush next to the toll booths - taking a dirt track that cut around them.i have no idea exactly why it was canned to be honest, just recall it once was a toll road and now it's not.
Go the people power!!
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Post by: Bird on February 09, 2018, 02:27:53 PM
Quote from: Pete79
https://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/forget-beating-a-breathalyser-this-guy-beats-the-t/3134401/ (https://m.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/forget-beating-a-breathalyser-this-guy-beats-the-t/3134401/)
WTF from that article
""The Australian Constitution tells you you don't need a driver's licence to drive a car, but once you have signed up for one, you have to abide by the Transport Act.""
Post by: plusnq on February 09, 2018, 05:33:34 PM
Wasn't that idea abandoned by former Premier Peter Beattie - because many people were just refusing to pay the toll - and just going a few metres bush next to the toll booths - taking a dirt track that cut around them.
Go the people power!!
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It was Joan Sheldon who got those tolls dropped. She was Deputy Premier and member for Caloundra in the Rob Borbidge led Lib Nat government of the time. Peter Beattie became Premier in 1998.
Post by: rags on February 09, 2018, 06:24:59 PM
The Sunshine Coast Motorway used to be a toll road and isn't any more.
Makes sense and explains the building in the middle between north and south bound lanes south of Mooloolaba Rd ( mountain creek)
Post by: jw2170 on February 09, 2018, 06:52:59 PM
Ditch the tolls and put a levy on fuel, say 3 cents for 3 years, and use the money for roads. Bigger vehicles use more fuel and therefore pay more $$.
Oh, that's right. NSW tried that, but at the 5 year mark the 3c became 5c, then 8c/L, its been going for 20+ years now and they still built toll roads.
Hahahahaha, that was my response........3x3.....W.......
Post by: lukeycat on February 21, 2018, 06:28:13 PM
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