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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: xcvator on December 16, 2017, 12:55:24 PM
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Latest Big4 caravan park ( Inverloch ) "recommendation" is that your power leads are all "tested and tagged" because it's a work site. When I asked them was it compulsory the reply came back "that,no, it wasn't compulsory or law, but if you were prepared to take the risk that was fine " with no explanation of just what the risk is/was
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I don't see the problem, I've seen some dodgy power leads used in parks. Good idea to get some awareness on being safe.
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While it's in a lot of peoples interest to have their lead tested and tagged, it serves no purpose to have a "recommendation" that only confuses people ?
Even if a van park had a rule for only approved leads, where do you go to get ONE lead tested and tagged ??
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Not a new thing around here Ex, Dad passed away nearly six years ago and it was in place a few years before that in his caravan park .... The local parks around here have that, you need a tested tagged power lead before you can hook up to power thing happening . Conveniently one of the staff can test your lead for you and tag it for about $15 :angel:
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Not a new thing around here Ex, Dad passed away nearly six years ago and it was in place a few years before that in his caravan park .... The local parks around here have that, you need a tested tagged power lead before you can hook up to power thing happening . Conveniently one of the staff can test your lead for you and tag it for about $15 :angel:
That's what I meant about scam and in Victoria it is not compulsory not is it a workcover issue as a couple of parks are trying to make out
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Don't stay in CP's then, what was wrong with the nice spot you were at last week, beats a CP by miles.
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So if one is required to get their lead tested just like a work site then I assume that requirement will extend to all other "tools" carried in the van being tested and tagged, like the kettle, TV and engle fridge etc and now need the appropriate PPE like hard hat and goggles in case an over hanging object may fall.
I assume the caravan park is providing tested and certified earth leakage devices on their power connections.
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I may be wrong, I'm only a licensed electrician in NSW, but as far as I was aware Australian Standards are a law.
And Australian standards require all socket outlets in a caravan park to be on a residual current device (Safety switch)
If you use a dodgy lead it cuts out......
That said, I'm all for safety and can see both points of view, but I would assume the park managers/owners etc are just trying to protect themselves.
That's what it's all about these days isn't it?
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Briann, You forgot to add, Line their pockets with a bit of extra cash ripped from the Holiday makers who havent got a clue and like most Sheeple, Go with the flow and blindly just pay up . ;D
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Park owners have been rumoured to have cut up power leads they viewed as unsafe.
Have heard of this around the Porepunkah, Bright area.
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I may be wrong, I'm only a licensed electrician in NSW, but as far as I was aware Australian Standards are a law.
And Australian standards require all socket outlets in a caravan park to be on a residual current device (Safety switch)
If you use a dodgy lead it cuts out......
That said, I'm all for safety and can see both points of view, but I would assume the park managers/owners etc are just trying to protect themselves.
That's what it's all about these days isn't it?
I have no qualifications to my name or experience, but my understanding of the requirements are as you have stated. Hence why a guests power lead is not required to be tested and tagged. By the same token, a park manager/owner should also have some say if a guests power lead looks dodgy.
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Australian/NZ Standards are not law. Australian Design Regulations that reference the standards are law.
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What's the use of it when I can walk in to Bunnings and purchase my own tags. Grab a Sharpie and then fill our the tag.
I am in the building industry and it's amazing how quickly any subcontractor can have an untagged lead fixed without even leaving site.
To fix the problem make them only available to licensed testers
GG
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Recently stayed in a major caravan park in SA, no requirement on caravanners and campers to have leads tested and tagged, but interesting to note my wife's niece was working in the park testing and tagging all electrical equipment throughout the camp kitchens, cabins, toilets etc, and before anyone asks, yes, she is fully qualified to carry out this work.
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Australian/NZ Standards are not law. Australian Design Regulations that reference the standards are law.
For electrical safety, it will be a state based Act through a subservient Regulation that will call up a Code or Standard and im guessing for Victoria where the original poster commented on it is most likely the Electrical Safety Act administered by ESV. A standard provides Deemed to Satisfy solutions.
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For electrical safety, it will be a state based Act through a subservient Regulation that will call up a Code or Standard and im guessing for Victoria where the original poster commented on it is most likely the Electrical Safety Act administered by ESV. A standard provides Deemed to Satisfy solutions.
I have no idea what that actually means, but unless it's a law, it means jack sh*t..
Does anybody know of ANY van park that enforces a tag and tested lead as part of their entry policy ??
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I have no idea what that actually means, but unless it's a law, it means jack sh*t..
Does anybody know of ANY van park that enforces a tag and tested lead as part of their entry policy ??
if so as GG said, just pop into Bunnings and test and tag your own. its ****in pointless.
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Rated shackles, tyre age, GVM, ATM, and now power leads......when will it all end??
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if so as GG said, just pop into Bunnings and test and tag your own. its ****in pointless.
it's not pointless....what it is, is a litigation trail on jobsites so someone can be held accountable should something happen. Nothing to do with saftey though sadly ::)
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Rated shackles, tyre age, GVM, ATM, and now power leads......when will it all end??
6 B&S
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it's not pointless....what it is, is a litigation trail on jobsites so someone can be held accountable should something happen. Nothing to do with saftey though sadly ::)
Jobsites are covered by work cover....everything to do with safety, if adhered by. Van parks...covered by ??
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Jobsites are covered by work cover....everything to do with safety, if adhered by. Van parks...covered by ??
Liability Insurance!!
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Jobsites are covered by work cover....everything to do with safety, if adhered by. Van parks...covered by ??
no idea what happens in van parks, as i've never owned one, my guess is their public liability insurance covers them as already mentioned. I can't say I agree all the stuff on jobsites is purely about safety, but you can if you want to.
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Jobsites are covered by work cover....everything to do with safety, if adhered by. Van parks...covered by ??
Van parks are technically a jobsite for the vanpark employees. They're walking around where all these leads lying all over the ground. The owners have a duty of care to them.
The OP did say it was only a recommendation, not enforced. They probably have had an incident, so are butt covering by advising guests.
Not a bad thing to also offer a T&T service, if your enforcing it. Better to do that than shrug your shoulders and say I don't know. After the guest asks how they get their lead tagged.
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The technical question that needs to be asked is how often the earth leakage outlet is tested.
If it is a work site, it is probably monthly or 3 monthly.
Energysafe issued a warning around ten years ago that just because a lead is in the test period doesn't mean the lead is safe. It needs to be insoected for damage before use.
Commonsense really, but we have legislated out commonsense.
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I bet they don't let them know about lead tagging requirements when they take a deposit off them on the phone!
Tagging is the biggest joke of them all, tag tools, leads, or appliance and then put a nick in the lead the next day. Its all good though, have three months on the tag!
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Tagging is the biggest joke of them all, tag tools, leads, or appliance and then put a nick in the lead the next day. Its all good though, have three months on the tag!
T&T is the bane of my life. I've had the displeasure of enforcing it as a site manager and PM. I get these lines trotted out to me all the time. Unfortunately I didn't write the law, I just have to enforce it as part of my employment.
I've taken the line, that at least someone qualified is inspecting it 4 times a year. On a commercial site guys are working under their SWMS's. In their SWMS's it states the individual operator must inspect all equipment and leads prior to performing a task, if it gets a nick the next day after tagging. The onus is on the operator, not the tester.
Unfortunately all this stuff is born out of litigation.
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Tagging is the biggest joke of them all, tag tools, leads, or appliance and then put a nick in the lead the next day. Its all good though, have three months on the tag!
A tagged lead is only good for the 10seconds after it is tagged. The rest is up to the operator after that. If you don't have rules, you can't hope to have a safe worksite.
An extension lead should be good for 10yrs IF you have someone who can look after it.......but most don't give a crap..
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Isn’t there a requirement for caravan park to have all there outlet on double pole (think that the words) switch’s on RCD therefore if an extension lead is wired wrong it trips the switch?
It’s been a while since I have been in property management but I also thought if RCD are tested at a regular interval than test and tag isn’t required.....
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Maybe they will want a current roadworthy certificate next as well to ensure all vehicles entering their property are 100% up to scratch. Possibly want to see your gas mod plate, your electrical compliance plate and driving licence as well. JUST to cover their employees. As stated..if they ensure all their electrical points, rcds and wiring is routinely tested and tagged there shouldn,t be a need for a van owner to have his leads tested.
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These guys say it's not law, and there business is test and tag
http://www.appliancetaggingservices.com.au/blogs/vic-test-tag-requirements (http://www.appliancetaggingservices.com.au/blogs/vic-test-tag-requirements)
Also found references to accomodation type places to test every 2 years which will be why the kettles etc being tagged.
I have little faith in it after seeing the method some use at work. One guy filled out the tag while the other cut off the old tag and swapped it. No "testing" or inspection was done. It was a shredder on wheels and only the plug was visible. The unit was never moved.
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Park owners have been rumoured to have cut up power leads they viewed as unsafe.
??? ???
What/who gives them the right to destroy someone else's property?
:cheers:
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??? ???
What/who gives them the right to destroy someone else's property?
:cheers:
They would really want to be " Qualified " to do so ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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??? ???
What/who gives them the right to destroy someone else's property?
:cheers:
Nothing/nobody.
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Maybe they will want a current roadworthy certificate next as well to ensure all vehicles entering their property are 100% up to scratch.
already exists on some sites with things like concrete pumps, cranes and earth moving machines, just depends on how the WH&S person is running the site....some are good to work with, some want everything run like a mine or high rise complex where they cater to the lowest common denominator and unions.
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some want everything run like a mine or high rise complex where they cater to the lowest common denominator and unions.
Worked in coal mines for 40 yrs and while it's one of the highest risk places to work, without unions and OH&S, they would be similar to mines in China ( without those two ingredients ) where they kill thousands a year !
Some unions, especially at the top level, especially in the building game, may be corrupt, but down at workplace level, most are run by your own workmates and really do have your safety at heart.
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Worked in coal mines for 40 yrs and while it's one of the highest risk places to work, without unions and OH&S, they would be similar to mines in China ( without those two ingredients ) where they kill thousands a year !
Some unions, especially at the top level, especially in the building game, may be corrupt, but down at workplace level, most are run by your own workmates and really do have your safety at heart.
at no stage have I said there's no place for the OH&S, but having worked construction for over 25 years myself, i know that some of the stuff we have to do at times is pure BS and there as arse covering over litigation fears. Thankfully I don't work full time in locations that live that mentality, you tend to see how much productivity is effected in the places that are over the top with rules made in the name of safety. It was clear to me from your first post on this you'd worked in an industry that lives for these rules and regulations.
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More reasons to avoid caravan parks and the cranky people that use them.
That aside, you can buy a set of tags off eBay. All sorted
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.if they ensure all their electrical points, rcds and wiring is routinely tested and tagged there shouldn,t be a need for a van owner to have his leads tested.
That was also my understanding.
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The local parks around here have that, you need a tested tagged power lead before you can hook up to power thing happening . Conveniently one of the staff can test your lead for you and tag it for about $15 :angel:
& he is, of course, a licensed sparkie (contractor ?) that's qualified to do so & has the appropriate testing gear out the back ???
(Telling nasty, cynical side of me, that thinks he looks at the lead, then puts a sticker on it, to shut up! >:D)
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& he is, of course, a licensed sparkie (contractor ?) that's qualified to do so & has the appropriate testing gear out the back ???
(Telling nasty, cynical side of me, that thinks he looks at the lead, then puts a sticker on it, to shut up! >:D)
You don’t need to be a sparky to do test and tagging. Only need to be competent and it’s only a few day course. The only reason t&t came in was people not checking leads. I personally have never checked my lead inch by inch and I doubt a lot of people do before they plug it in.
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It was clear to me from your first post on this you'd worked in an industry that lives for these rules and regulations.
Nah, in fact yrs ago the rules were regularly broken, and these days, they can be a bit over the top, but as an employer, you can't leave yourself open .
I know some places you can't even fart without filling in a take5 book, but on some big construction and mine sites, an injury can delay work for a day or more, costing millions sometimes, not to mention the fine if the company was at fault....and sometimes they actually care about the worker as well !!
I've seen my share of blokes being killed at work, so maybe in my old age I take OH&S a bit more serious than I used to !!
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When all else is said and done you are a only guest on some ones property. If having a tagged lead is part of the conditions of entry stated by the park management then so be it. If you don't like it move on to the next park. Problem is why stop at the power lead. The van and everything in it should be tagged. Watch the $$$ build up. How many out there have had their vans checked since purchase, not many. When you rock up to the entrance of a park is the person booking you in gonna come out and search your car and van for tags, I don't think so. If you have tagged all your electrical stuff do they know who did the tagging, I don't think so. If you strike a park wanting any of this just ask to see their records of testing to see if they are up to date, probably find they aren't. I'd be wary of any park person tagging leads, who knows if their competent. No one has the right to cut the plugs off leads that do not belong to them. Becomes willfull damage to private property. If a tag is filled in and placed on an item it could become a legal document which opens up another can of worms. Like others have said, is it a grab for cash by some, arse covering for others or just more bulls**t by the caravan parks association.
Just a side note and that is both my daughters attend Calisthenics competitions at venues and most of them require anything 240v to be tagged.
End of rant.
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Latest Big4 caravan park ( Inverloch ) "recommendation" is that your power leads are all "tested and tagged" because it's a work site. When I asked them was it compulsory the reply came back "that,no, it wasn't compulsory or law, but if you were prepared to take the risk that was fine " with no explanation of just what the risk is/was
I don’t doubt the conversation you had with them......
What would annoy me is it should be on there website stating the requirement (but given I wouldn’t read teen and conditions) and/or communicated at time of booking.
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I don’t doubt the conversation you had with them......
What would annoy me is it should be on there website stating the requirement (but given I wouldn’t read teen and conditions) and/or communicated at time of booking.
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More a question of "who's" "requirement" is it. Unless they can show there is a legal requirement, at present the onus is on the park to have everything up to the required standard to provide a safe place for their guests to stay at.
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More a question of "who's" "requirement" is it. Unless they can show there is a legal requirement, at present the onus is on the park to have everything up to the required standard to provide a safe place for their guests to stay at.
Which I pretty sure is having the RCD tested.
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Just a side note and that is both my daughters attend Calisthenics competitions at venues and most of them require anything 240v to be tagged.
Been out of the mines for 3 yrs now, but some companies don't allow ANY power tool run by 240V on site.....including contractors coming to do work for them. Must be either battery operated or air operated...no exceptions. So they've solved two things in one......dodgy power tools and dodgy extension leads.
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More a question of "who's" "requirement" is it.
No ones.
Xcvator said it was a recommendation only. Your choice to tag your lead and your choice to decline their "recommendation".
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Been out of the mines for 3 yrs now, but some companies don't allow ANY power tool run by 240V on site.....including contractors coming to do work for them. Must be either battery operated or air operated...no exceptions. So they've solved two things in one......dodgy power tools and dodgy extension leads.
Where does the air come from, Electric or petrol compressor?
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Been out of the mines for 3 yrs now, but some companies don't allow ANY power tool run by 240V on site.....including contractors coming to do work for them. Must be either battery operated or air operated...no exceptions. So they've solved two things in one......dodgy power tools and dodgy extension leads.
How do you charge your batteries. Serious question.
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Where does the air come from, Electric or petrol compressor?
Coal mines have an electric compressor...or 3.....fed by 1000V.
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How do you charge your batteries. Serious question.
You mean the batteries for the tools ? Contractors charge them before coming on site. We charged them with a battery charger ?? Was it a trick question ?
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You mean the batteries for the tools ? Contractors charge them before coming on site. We charged them with a battery charger ?? Was it a trick question ?
Are you expected to bring umpteen charged batteries for the duration of your job or is there a facility/area where they can be charged? Or are you expected to charge them in the donga each night?
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Are you expected to bring umpteen charged batteries for the duration of your job or is there a facility/area where they can be charged? Or are you expected to charge them in the donga each night?
The mines I worked at didn't have dongas.........and contractors would only be in for a day. Never had to work at those FIFO joints.
But yes, contractors would have to carry as many batts as the job needed........some may not have been happy about it, but they were the rules.
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Australian/NZ Standards are not law. Australian Design Regulations that reference the standards are law.
This is true, BUT in state electrical legislation (not the ADR) there is a clause stating that electrical installations must comply with the wiring rules. And the wiring rules is AS/NZS 3000, so if someone creates an electrical installation that does not comply with AS/NZS 3000 then they may be prosecuted under the relevant state legislation. So while it is true that AS/NZS 3000 is not law, failure to comply with it means that you are liable to prosecution under state law.
It is also important to note that every state has a slightly different interpretation of what constitutes an 'electrical installation'. For example in Victoria a caravan is classified as an appliance, so exempt from AS 3000 and AS 3001. This is one of many reasons why most caravans are made in Victoria.
With testing and tagging, the relevant standard is AS 3760, which is not referenced by AS 3000, but is often referenced by WHS or OHS legislation depending on what state you are in. Interestingly in QLD, there is an exemption in the Electrical Safety Regulation whereby you don't need to test and tag your equipment if the circuit is protected by an RCD. Many offices including government departments don't test and tag because of this.
For caravan parks they are private properties, so if they want to enforce a test and tag rule that is up to them. There is no legal basis for it, but if they make it a condition of entry then that is their business.
Where does the air come from, Electric or petrol compressor?
Engine driven compressor, usually mounted on the back of a ute, or they use the plant air which the company supplies. It is pretty common on mines now to ban the use of 240V tools in wet areas or confined spaces. There is usually a battery charging station in a workshop or similar in a place that isn't prone to getting wet.
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It is pretty common on mines now to ban the use of 240V tools in wet areas or confined spaces.
Where it stemmed from was probably the number of people , employees and contractors , getting elect shocks from extension leads in washeries especially, which of course are always wet.
In the power stations years ago, an elect shock was part of the game...but nowadays they are treated seriously, as even a small one can cause heart problems, even in a young and fit person.
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What's the use of it when I can walk in to Bunnings and purchase my own tags. Grab a Sharpie and then fill our the tag.
I am in the building industry and it's amazing how quickly any subcontractor can have an untagged lead fixed without even leaving site.
To fix the problem make them only available to licensed testers
GG
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Did you just suggest something sensible????
Surely you jest.........
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I am a licensed tester and still haven’t got a clue. The system has been undermined and needs to go the way of certain other high risk licences (skid steer, excavator etc) which we’re also undermined and operators now need a newer certificate of competency - or just let sparkies do it.
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Grab your solar/genie & remain off grid :cheers:
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Liability Insurance!!
You got it - it’ll be in the small print of the cover..
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At one time there were maybe 40 odd Jims test n tags around, only 3 were sparkies, the rest had done the so called course that is run. I've see stuff that must have been tagged by a blind man.
He had to be blind cause he couldn't see what was so obvious. Put tagging in a place where there is no real control over it, like a caravan park and it won't work as intended.
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Put tagging in a place where there is no real control over it,
I wanna know why they always put the sticker over the specs so you cant read them
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I wanna know why they always put the sticker over the specs so you cant read them
Sick sense of humour ;D
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I wanna know why they always put the sticker over the specs so you cant read them
What, people actually read spec's ??? ::) >:D
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Tags should be put close to the plug top end of the cable.
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I emailed Big 4 and........got a reply.
*****Copy and Paste from reply
I would like to thank you for your correspondence to BIG4 Holiday Parks and your question regarding provision of power to caravans at BIG4 Parks.
Each BIG4 Holiday Park is independently owned and operated. BIG4 Holiday Parks is a brand and marketing franchise and does not prescribe operational procedures to our members parks. We do however require that BIG4 parks ensure they satisfy workplace and public safety best practice and legislation.
BIG4 Holiday Parks of Australia would not be likely to enforce the use of tested and tagged electrical leads by guests. However individual parks, and at some point, workplace and public safety requirements may require this.
Thank you again for taking the time to contact us.
Wishing you safe and happy travels and a lovely Christmas and New Year
Kind regards
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Generic form letter that you'd expect.
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Generic form letter that you'd expect.
Yes and no.....I would have thought franchises would be the same across them all.
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Yes and no.....I would have thought franchises would be the same across them all.
Big4, Top Parks etc aren't franchised in the same way that Domino's etc are; they're fully independent units that just market under a common franchise standard which normally relates to facilities rather than operating standards.
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Wake up Australia. We are the reason for these safety standards being so legistrated.
We have gone so far in one direction in safety that we can’t go back so it’s only going to get worse.
Safety is a nessesary evel and the problem is people with no idea are the ones running with all these ideas. Get used to it people it’s only going to get worse from here.
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There needs to be clarification on some points in this thread:
1. Australian Standards are not law unless they are referenced in a statute like an act or regulation.
2. OH&S regulations only apply to workplaces. A caravan park could be a workplace but not for the tenants/guests.
3. Tagging and testing is method of reducing risk, not eliminating it. As has been pointed out by others, a tagged device could suffer damage immediately after tagging that would render it unsafe, but the inspection period puts a cap on how long it can go without detection.
Nonetheless there is nothing stopping a Park from having it as a requirement but it’s pretty hard to enforce consistently.
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Does all this mean I have to pack my hard hat, safety glasses, gloves, hi vis shirt, long pants, steel cap boots and do a swm and tool box before I book into the caravan park at Christmas or not? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Ask them the hours so you can do the site orientation course, when you get there.
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Does all this mean I have to pack my hard hat, safety glasses, gloves, hi vis shirt, long pants, steel cap boots and do a swm and tool box before I book into the caravan park at Christmas or not? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
What ?? You mean you don't already do all that ?? The rare times I visit a van park, it makes sense to me !! 8)
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Ask them the hours so you can do the site orientation course, when you get there.
:cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
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Unfortunately I see the issue from a completely different side. I can’t seem to understand why someone would spend $30K or more on a camper and even $80k or more on a caravan and then think he is being ripped off by the government or others to have their extension cord tested and tagged. Even a newly purchased one could be defective without you knowing it. When you take your cord to whoever, before handing over your lead and cash, ask to see the person’s Electrical licence card. Even those who have done the competency course to do this work should have a card. If they don’t move on.
It is not about trying to scam you out of $15, but having a tested extension cord goes somewhat to protecting your safety, that of your family and those who may be close vicinity to your camper or caravan. A small price I think. To go one further, on your way home, call into Bunnings or whoever and buy a power point tester for $10. Put it on the end of your cable each time you roll it out and make sure the indicators tell you that it is ok.
Recently a family were putting up their Jayco camper across from us when every time the dog touched the step, it would yelp and do tail spins. At first, the family thought it was funny until I asked if I could do a quick measurement. Sure enough the earth was completely open and from the van chassis to earth was about 100 volts. This voltage comes from the way most switching power supplies (the SETEC in Jaycos for example) get rid of the noise on the line to ground. It is very small current and when an earth is present, it isn’t even there. I was really grateful that rather than give me an earful, they went straight out and bought a new lead. Should the fridge or some other appliance developed an earth fault over night the full 240 volts would be present on the chassis. When you step out in the morning with one foot on the step and one on mother earth, you will complete the circuit to earth and hopefully in less than 200 milliseconds the power will be cut. If you had a dicky ticker before now and didn’t know it, unfortunately this will not help.
I have a Restricted Electrical license issued in QLD but so tight are the regulations here, that I can only do testing and tagging and disconnecting of power for equipment owned by my employer. I doesn’t allow me to test and tag my own lead. But still we will have a duty of care to those around us even when we are not at work. Grasp this issue, get your own lead tested and then when you go to the next park, ask if they promote this and if not, why not.
John
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John I agree with making sure your gear is right and works correctly to protect your own belongings. But at a caravan park where it is the obligation of the park owner/manger to ensure their gear is running correctly, how is that suddenly my fault?
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Lets say $55 for 2 adults on a powered site overnight. 2 kids at lets say $15 each. Then on top $15 to test a lead. That makes $100 for an overnight stay. I think I'll stay at home.
Lets say 5 campers need leads tested per day. At $15 that's $75 per day, $525 per week, $27300 per year. If I was a park owner I'd take that.
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I have a Restricted Electrical license issued in QLD but so tight are the regulations here, that I can only do testing and tagging and disconnecting of power for equipment owned by my employer. I doesn’t allow me to test and tag my own lead. But still we will have a duty of care to those around us even when we are not at work. Grasp this issue, get your own lead tested and then when you go to the next park, ask if they promote this and if not, why not.
John is the reason that you can only do your boss's equipment due to you only having an occupational license rather than a contractor license which would explain the tight regulations?
I come from a plumbing background with a restricted electrical ticket that allows me to disconnect and re-connection appliances like pumps and water heaters. In NSW where I am also licenced that is issued by NSW fair trading as part of my plumbing contractor licence. In Queensland I need to get a seperate occupational license from the Electrical Safety office for the Electrical component, my occupational gas licence from the dept of mines and something else and then an occupational plumbing licence from the QBCC. Then I can get a contractor licence from the QBCC to contract . Go figure.and add up the cost.
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You mean the batteries for the tools ? Contractors charge them before coming on site. We charged them with a battery charger ?? Was it a trick question ?
No not a trick question however you answered my next one further down about recharging batteries mid shift that the contractors would need multiple batteries to complete the days work if one isn’t enough.
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Lets say $55 for 2 adults on a powered site overnight. 2 kids at lets say $15 each. Then on top $15 to test a lead. That makes $100 for an overnight stay. I think I'll stay at home.
186ish for 2 nights at Inverloch... Went once, never again.
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186ish for 2 nights at Inverloch... Went once, never again.
Did someone say Knockwood??
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John
To play devils advocate for a minute...
Annual testing of this sort of gear does little to reduce the risks. Far better to educate users to inspect their equipment before use each time.
And a question - what exactly do the Bunnings $10 testers test for?
Shane
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Having your lead tested and tagged guarantees continuity between the plug and socket and that each are connected correctly, Active to active, neutral to neutral and more importantly earth the earth. The contracts in the socket can become splayed overtime and therefore may not connect, and this is something that a visual inspection may not find. It also tests the insolation between each of the conductors. The Powerpoint tester I spoke of indicates that each of the active, neutral and earth are present on the socket. All these plug testers have a disclaimer that they can't detect a swapped neutral and earth but this is something that your test and tag will show. It is impossible from them to swap after the lead has been tested especially the moulded variety.
Its also just as important to check it for gouges, nicks.
Rags,
Yes my license is occupational specific, Telecommunications. We can work on rectifiers and such after they have disconnected, but the license allows us to disconnect them from the mains if hardwired. We have now converted most to a 20 amp outlet and cable.
Alajan,
As a workplace, the parks have an obligation to their own staff and you to ensure their equipment is tested each three months in most states. It is certainly not your fault, but to ensure you have full protection from earth faults that your caravan or camper may have, a correctly working lead is essential.
Corndog,
Your lead once tested and tagged is good for 12 moths, you don't need to have it tested every time you go camping, hence why I also added the plug tester so over the period of 12 months, you can be sure that it is ok.
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John you sure 12months on an extension lead...??
Test and tag is only good at time of inspection....we all closely inspect our lead before each use other than that the average punter has no idea whats happening inside the lead.
At work ours are either done 3 or 6 monthly.
At home my leads are > 10 years old and I reckon they would pass a test.
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John.
Can you please list off some other things that can fail extension leads.
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John I agree with making sure your gear is right and works correctly to protect your own belongings. But at a caravan park where it is the obligation of the park owner/manger to ensure their gear is running correctly, how is that suddenly my fault?
The park manager is responsible to ensure their equipment is safe and operating correctly. How exactly is it now your fault?
John is the reason that you can only do your boss's equipment due to you only having an occupational license rather than a contractor license which would explain the tight regulations?
I come from a plumbing background with a restricted electrical ticket that allows me to disconnect and re-connection appliances like pumps and water heaters. In NSW where I am also licenced that is issued by NSW fair trading as part of my plumbing contractor licence. In Queensland I need to get a seperate occupational license from the Electrical Safety office for the Electrical component, my occupational gas licence from the dept of mines and something else and then an occupational plumbing licence from the QBCC. Then I can get a contractor licence from the QBCC to contract . Go figure.and add up the cost.
That's due to inconsistencies between states and also there being no national trade licensing. Been that way forever and isn't going to get any better any time soon.
Annual testing of this sort of gear does little to reduce the risks. Far better to educate users to inspect their equipment before use each time.
Joe Average will only be able to find obvious faults with a lead, the not so obvious ones such as broken conductors or incorrect wiring won't be detected by the user.
And a question - what exactly do the Bunnings $10 testers test for?
What testers are you talking about?
John you sure 12months on an extension lead...??
Test and tag is only good at time of inspection....we all closely inspect our lead before each use other than that the average punter has no idea whats happening inside the lead.
At work ours are either done 3 or 6 monthly.
At home my leads are > 10 years old and I reckon they would pass a test.
Under AS 3760 test periods can be anywhere from 3 months to 5 years, depending on the environment and type of use. If you work in construction or demolition then AS 3012 requires 3 monthly intervals.
Some places I have worked required monthly tests on leads due to the harsh environment and high rates of damage.
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Under AS 3760 test periods can be anywhere from 3 months to 5 years, depending on the environment and type of use. If you work in construction or demolition then AS 3012 requires 3 monthly intervals.
Some places I have worked required monthly tests on leads due to the harsh environment and high rates of damage.
Hence why I asked as I’ve never seen extension leads tagged at 12 months given the abuse they cop.
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Thanks Symon for your input. The tester from Bunnings is just a plug with 3 Leds in it to show that all is ok. Better than nothing over the 12 months.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-power-outlet-tester-plug_p4420488 (https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-power-outlet-tester-plug_p4420488)
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We used to travel with one of these in France: https://www.towsure.com/mains-polarity-tester-plug (https://www.towsure.com/mains-polarity-tester-plug)
It shows a whole number of different combinations of problems...
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Corndog,
Your lead once tested and tagged is good for 12 moths, you don't need to have it tested every time you go camping, hence why I also added the plug tester so over the period of 12 months, you can be sure that it is ok.
With respect, it doesn’t mean that at all. It means that at the time of testing, which could be up to 12 months ago, the equipment was ok. Anything could have happened since.
That’s the problem I have with this type of “maintenance” - people look at the tag, check if it’s within the valid period, and assume it’s all ok. In reality it does very little to ensure the gear is in good condition and it’s most useful function is to make someone feel warm and fuzzy that everything has been checked.
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Hence why I asked as I’ve never seen extension leads tagged at 12 months given the abuse they cop.
In office environments things like extension leads can be on 12 or 24 monthly test intervals, quite common and appropriate.
Thanks Symon for your input. The tester from Bunnings is just a plug with 3 Leds in it to show that all is ok. Better than nothing over the 12 months.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-power-outlet-tester-plug_p4420488 (https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-power-outlet-tester-plug_p4420488)
So it just tests for correct wiring. Good for a quick check but doesn't replace a PAT unit.
With respect, it doesn’t mean that at all. It means that at the time of testing, which could be up to 12 months ago, the equipment was ok. Anything could have happened since.
That’s the problem I have with this type of “maintenance” - people look at the tag, check if it’s within the valid period, and assume it’s all ok. In reality it does very little to ensure the gear is in good condition and it’s most useful function is to make someone feel warm and fuzzy that everything has been checked.
It is the responsibility of the user to visually inspect the lead and/or appliance they are about to use prior to using it, this should capture the obvious defects. If someone just checks the tag and assumes everything is OK then they are negligent.
The not obvious defects are picked up during the test and tag inspection. As someone who has done hundreds of these I totally reject your assertion that these contribute little value. For harsh environments such as construction and mine sites I would condemn or repair about 20-30% of the equipment I inspected, especially extension leads. For low risk areas like offices it would still be around 5 or 10%.
I agree that the quality of the inspections has dropped over the years, especially with the amount of one-day PAT testers out there, but those of us who rely on our licences for a living do have a propensity to do our inspections properly.
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It is the responsibility of the user to visually inspect the lead and/or appliance they are about to use prior to using it, this should capture the obvious defects. If someone just checks the tag and assumes everything is OK then they are negligent.
This.
Nevers seems to occur to the owner that it's their responsibility EVERY time they use it.
I agree that the quality of the inspections has dropped over the years, especially with the amount of one-day PAT testers out there, but those of us who rely on our licences for a living do have a propensity to do our inspections properly.
A lot of big builders in Vic will only accept T&T from A graders for this reason.
Biggest issue are subbies buying Bunnings tags and copying a sparkies licence number on them. A few have been caught out on our jobs. Doesn't go down well with the sparky in question....
Our company only use sparkies for T&T. Costs a little more, but any defective leads and plugs (90% of issues) can then be fixed on the spot. Otherwise they'd have to be sent off after the tester has canned them.
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If they mandated RCDs in all installations, people would be a lot safer. Instead they have placed the compliance requirement on the user, a stupid idea.
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Under AS 3760 test periods can be anywhere from 3 months to 5 years, depending on the environment and type of use. If you work in construction or demolition then AS 3012 requires 3 monthly intervals.
Some places I have worked required monthly tests on leads due to the harsh environment and high rates of damage.
Qld is 3 monthly, but I think NSW went monthly in construction didn't they?
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If they mandated RCDs in all installations, people would be a lot safer. Instead they have placed the compliance requirement on the user, a stupid idea.
In Vic. RCD's Are required on all new and modified installations. Including temp boards on building sites.
The user is responsible for the maintenance of their own equipment plugged into these installations.
Qld is 3 monthly, but I think NSW went monthly in construction didn't they?
Vic construction is 3 months and 1 month on RCD's in temp and portable boards.
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Just to get back on track, a caravan park isn't a building/construction site!!! It is a work place for the park employees so what they use comes under the oh&s rules, the park guests aren't and don't.
When I spoke to the person at the Inverloch park she started off saying that it was a "rule of theirs" but after a bit of questioning she changed her tone and admitted it was "a suggestion and an unenforceable rule " hence my OP that it was a scam to rip money off of the gullible general public
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How many times did ya pay before ya worked out it was a scam?
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Just to get back on track, a caravan park isn't a building/construction site!!! It is a work place for the park employees so what they use comes under the oh&s rules, the park guests aren't and don't.
When I spoke to the person at the Inverloch park she started off saying that it was a "rule of theirs" but after a bit of questioning she changed her tone and admitted it was "a suggestion and an unenforceable rule " hence my OP that it was a scam to rip money off of the gullible general public
After all is said and done I agree with you.
And I have heard of a park trying to get $35 out of any sucker that comes through their gates.
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How many times did ya pay before ya worked out it was a scam?
Nil
After all is said and done I agree with you.
And I have heard of a park trying to get $35 out of any sucker that comes through their gates.
exactly
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And I have heard of a park trying to get $35 out of any sucker that comes through their gates.
https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-10m-15a-extra-heavy-duty-caravan-extension-cable_p4430367 (https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-10m-15a-extra-heavy-duty-caravan-extension-cable_p4430367)
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https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-10m-15a-extra-heavy-duty-caravan-extension-cable_p4430367 (https://www.bunnings.com.au/hpm-10m-15a-extra-heavy-duty-caravan-extension-cable_p4430367)
even being a new lead likely wouldn't count, there's no test tag on them when you buy them
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even being a new lead likely wouldn't count, there's no test tag on them when you buy them
Buy the test tag while you're in Bunnings.... ;D ;D
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Qld is 3 monthly, but I think NSW went monthly in construction didn't they?
Not that I'm aware of, sounds a bit of a stretch but I don't work in that industry.
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Rummy is correct. Most of Aus is 3months whilst NSW is every month, extension leads included.
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We do 3 months on site here in NSW.
When did this change?
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Buy the test tag while you're in Bunnings.... ;D ;D
I think your being a bit ambitious Geoff.
Anyway, there have been batches of Extension leads sent back because they didn't comply.
Brand new just out of the packet, the fault occuring during manufacture. Guess where?
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I think your being a bit ambitious Geoff.
Just trying to be helpful Rob..... ;D
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Rummy is correct. Most of Aus is 3months whilst NSW is every month, extension leads included.
From what I read , every state uses the same set of standards. But extract from NSW safe work site : The frequency of inspection and testing will vary depending on the nature of the workplace and the risks associated with the electrical equipment. The AS/NZS 3760: 2010 - In service safety inspection and testing of electrical equipment, outlines inspection, testing, tagging methods and frequency.
Details of the required frequency for inspection and testing on construction sites are set out in Australian standard AS/NZS 3012: 2010 Electrical installations - Construction and demolition sites.
http://www.safework.nsw.gov.au/health-and-safety/industry-safety/electrical-and-power/electrical-inspection-and-testing (http://www.safework.nsw.gov.au/health-and-safety/industry-safety/electrical-and-power/electrical-inspection-and-testing)