Post by: edz on June 29, 2017, 06:05:15 PM
Well lately the cost of power has been pretty much coming up and people around here are resorting to using " Camping style " methods to cook with, IE : Ye olde gas camping cookers [ Butane jobbies included ] and camp ovens in the back yard ..
Probably not what the usual suburbanites are used too . Though I do like the smell of a campfire / cooking wafting around .
We do use a Butane cooker on the bench top quite regularly as a stand alone or to augment the frying pan / microwave [ could it be a false economy ? ] ..
Any one else use their camping gear at home for more than the odd special occasion .
Post by: Hoyks on June 29, 2017, 06:13:46 PM
Post by: SEADOO on June 29, 2017, 06:21:07 PM
The cook top runs on a pair of those 5ft gas bottles. Been here 4 years and have to replace one yet.
So no, cooking at home doesn't affect the power bill.
Heating is another thread. We are in a bad economy if people can't afford to heat their homes.
We aren't to bad, we only turn it on when it's really cold. My wife had surgery last year and was couched bound for 4 weeks during a really cold winter. The power bill almost doubled.
We looked at one of those fancy fire places. Fire wood isn't cheap and the cost of purchase and installation was over $2k.
Post by: Inland_Sailor on June 29, 2017, 07:19:18 PM
Post by: speewa158 on June 29, 2017, 07:48:34 PM
Think about it :laugh: :laugh:
Post by: xcvator on June 29, 2017, 07:52:19 PM
l have 4.5K of solar on the roof , 20 panels . Had it for 5 years now , don't have to pay power bills as my rebate covers that & my counsel rates :cup: :cheers:No good thinking about it those rebates have gone forever and you know it , we're talking about now in the now world
Think about it :laugh: :laugh:
Post by: rossm on June 29, 2017, 08:20:42 PM
And it was great enjoying a few beers by the fire.
Sometimes the journey is as important as the destination.
Post by: Bird on June 29, 2017, 08:24:45 PM
No good thinking about it those rebates have goneagree... after the last solar gig where apprentices were getting killed, then I cant see any party going political suicide on that one sadly.. if they do - I'm on it.. wazbot also has free gas water and electric as he got onto it on day 1 when the first rebates were introduced... lucky ****. :(
Post by: austastar on June 29, 2017, 08:30:49 PM
7 kW of panels on the roof in 2014 and no power bills since.
And over $2k credit in the account.
Yes it cost $7k to install, but as our bill was about $1k a year, it has nearly paid for itself and has 2 years to run at parity till our buy back drops to about 30%.
I suspect we could go off grid if they don't enforce a network cost for availability like Tas water do if you are on tanks and the street has reticulated water pipes running near your boundary.
Cheers
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Post by: DrewXT on June 29, 2017, 09:20:31 PM
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Post by: vern on June 29, 2017, 09:20:55 PM
agree... after the last solar gig where apprentices were getting killed, then I cant see any party going political suicide on that one sadly.. if they do - I'm on it.. wazbot also has free gas water and electric as he got onto it on day 1 when the first rebates were introduced... lucky ****. :(That was the insulation scheme not the solar scheme.
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Post by: vern on June 29, 2017, 09:21:53 PM
No good thinking about it those rebates have gone forever and you know it , we're talking about now in the now worldRebates haven't changed, its the feed in tariffs that have dropped.
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Post by: vern on June 29, 2017, 09:23:51 PM
We're building at the moment, and will be putting on 15kW of panels with a battery array down the track... Don't anticipate paying for power everDrew, get your installers to put offgrid ready inverters in now instead of forking out for replacement inverters down the track. I would look at Selectronics
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Post by: DrewXT on June 29, 2017, 09:41:55 PM
Drew, get your installers to put offgrid ready inverters in now instead of forking out for replacement inverters down the track. I would look at SelectronicsWe're looking at an Enphase system at the moment...
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Post by: firefox on June 29, 2017, 10:08:06 PM
Post by: vern on June 30, 2017, 07:09:07 AM
I have 2x SMA sunny islands and 2x banks of LG Chem batteries. Always enough power even to run the swim spa and not connected to anything, totally offgrid. Never a bill :)You must have around 10kw of panels to have 2 sunny islands, not a bad inverter, have used them in the past, vert robust.
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Post by: firefox on June 30, 2017, 07:12:37 AM
Everything's is redundant and I run 2 phases with cut over switches etc. means if a system fails I can switch it over.
Everything is connected also to a backup generator with auto start, even for winter in tassie though the generator is barely ever starting it's programmed only for emergency backup.
Post by: vern on June 30, 2017, 07:13:38 AM
We're looking at an Enphase system at the moment...Yeah i haven't actually installed any enphase gear, although i have been trained in it. Great gear and great back up, but all those micro inverters put me off. Atleast with it you can just get sau a Selectronics sp pro and batteries and hook it straight up.
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Post by: Craig Tomkinson on June 30, 2017, 08:18:16 AM
Post by: chester ver2.0 on June 30, 2017, 08:25:49 AM
Hi
7 kW of panels on the roof in 2014 and no power bills since.
And over $2k credit in the account.
Yes it cost $7k to install, but as our bill was about $1k a year, it has nearly paid for itself and has 2 years to run at parity till our buy back drops to about 30%.
I suspect we could go off grid if they don't enforce a network cost for availability like Tas water do if you are on tanks and the street has reticulated water pipes running near your boundary.
Cheers
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So how does the 2K in credit actually work cause i simply cannot see an electricity company writing me a cheque
Post by: vern on June 30, 2017, 08:30:44 AM
Vern I have 18kw of panels, split between 2x SMA 5kw sunnyboy and 2x 3kw sunny boys.Sounds like a good set up. What size battery bank?
Everything's is redundant and I run 2 phases with cut over switches etc. means if a system fails I can switch it over.
Everything is connected also to a backup generator with auto start, even for winter in tassie though the generator is barely ever starting it's programmed only for emergency backup.
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Post by: firefox on June 30, 2017, 08:37:43 AM
Phase 1 - Essentials grid
1x LG Chem 6.4 master unit
2x LG Chem 3.2's (expansions packs) so a total of 12.8kwh
1x Sunny Island 6
1x Sunny Boy 5kw
1x Sunny Boy 3kw
We have 8kw of panels on this section, split over 3 different panel strings (1 on top of shed) and then 2 seperate ground mount banks)
Phase 2 - Non-Essentials grid
1x LG Chem 6.4 master unit
2x LG Chem 3.2's (expansions packs) so a total of 12.8kwh
1x Sunny Island 6
1x Sunny Boy 5kw
1x Sunny Boy 3kw
We have 10kw of panels on this section, split over 3 different panel strings (1 on top of shed) and then 2 seperate ground mount banks)
Then i have a single 8kw Honda auto start generator connected to both units allows for timer controlled running, as well as backup capability, currently programmed if batteries drop below 10% it auto starts and charges to 40%. Runs very rarely.
SMA Cluster controller in the middle of all of it to help with control/monitoring capability.
And some Transfer/Phase switches etc so if i loose phase 1 batteries i can switch the phase to run off the second bank whilst repair first. Was implemented for full redundancy in the system, including loosing a SMA sunny boy (hence why there are 2 solar inverters in each) if one plays up (which it has in the past) the phase will continue to charge. Redundancy was a big thing for me, needed to ensure i had everything all ok to run.
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on June 30, 2017, 11:01:51 AM
Post by: vern on June 30, 2017, 11:51:37 AM
Great info Firefox, that cost how much, CraigI would guess in the vicinity of $60k
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Post by: Bird on June 30, 2017, 11:55:54 AM
I would guess in the vicinity of $60kbargain
Post by: austastar on June 30, 2017, 04:55:40 PM
So how does the 2K in credit actually work cause i simply cannot see an electricity company writing me a chequeHi,
Yep, they will write me a cheque (I'm told), or credit to a family member's account.
But I will erode it eventually when the feed in tariff drops below equity.
Cheers
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Post by: Craig Tomkinson on June 30, 2017, 05:09:22 PM
Hi Edz, If you have heaps of timber, You can not beat an old wood stove cooks your tucker and heats your water, Craig
Post by: vern on June 30, 2017, 05:41:44 PM
Firefoxes system is big, its actually 2 systems.
Last one i did cost about $34k with generator back up. $5k was just for the generator alone.
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Post by: Craig Tomkinson on June 30, 2017, 06:50:59 PM
Post by: edz on June 30, 2017, 07:36:14 PM
If you have heaps of timber, You can not beat an old wood stove cooks your tucker and heats your water, CraigWish we did live in the scrub, totaly agree with you on the wood stove, still miss the sister inlaws wood stove cooking and the milky white hot bath water, Still reckon it stayed hotter for longer too ..
Post by: firefox on June 30, 2017, 09:11:11 PM
The expensive part is the batteries and inverters.. there's 20k alone in that.
Panels not that bad, ground mount systems aren't cheap, if you mounted to roofs u could save a bit.
With a 15 yr warranty and we are using upwards of 30kw day the repayment back is very very quick at about 5-7 years.
I don't feed into the grid, I could but it would cost about 15-20k to get power poles/lines to the house area which in the scheme of things I would have had to spend to get mains power anyhow.
It's a big investment upfront but if you can spend it. Not getting power billsis not.
I think the big thing will be people putting a single battery, tesla lg or something with inverter, use mostly battery power overnight..
I reckon this is why power companies putting their connection fees through the roof, that way it can force people to pay for not even using..
It's not hard to go off grid and as most that know me being in IT, I run lots of electronics, dishwashers, dryers, TVs as well as a 10,000 swim spa with heating (living in tassie gotta heat it)..
Post by: vern on June 30, 2017, 09:27:30 PM
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Post by: firefox on June 30, 2017, 09:31:44 PM
A battery combo with inverter will set u back about 10k
So 2 of those.
5kw of solar is pretty cheap especially with gov rebates..
There's a lot of over priced suppliers, I went through 2 different companies before settling with actually the biggest guys down here but in the overall scheme was the cheapest.
A single phase setup retails for around 20k out there but u can normally get them a little cheaper.
Post by: vern on June 30, 2017, 09:54:54 PM
Sizing of the battery system is where quotes can differ dramatically.
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Post by: firefox on June 30, 2017, 10:21:22 PM
Although I use the power overnight, I only need batteries to support one night. Benefit of having lithium as u probably know is running them below 50%. I allow mine to drop to 15% but LG says I should let them go to 5%.
Normally like my caravan I have 880ah but will only let them run down to 50-60%..
But in the house as they are guaranteed I run them much lower allowing me to have less. Each phase I have is only 12.8kwh total of 25kw between both banks.
Even with dishwashers overnight, heat transfer, fridges and all the other stuff batts are normally only 50% in the morning even in winter..
Has a lot to do with planning in the house and having Eco friendly appliances etc. we built the house from scratch so was able to ensure everything is simple and energy efficient.
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on July 01, 2017, 07:02:47 AM
Post by: Craig Tomkinson on July 01, 2017, 07:06:17 AM
Post by: vern on July 01, 2017, 08:30:31 AM
Yeah so those 32kwh were lead acid or lithium?They were sonnenshein VRLA batteries, due to where the panels were there was not a lot of solar gain (customer didn't want to see the panels plus there was a budget) so we allowed for more days of autonomy.
Although I use the power overnight, I only need batteries to support one night. Benefit of having lithium as u probably know is running them below 50%. I allow mine to drop to 15% but LG says I should let them go to 5%.
Normally like my caravan I have 880ah but will only let them run down to 50-60%..
But in the house as they are guaranteed I run them much lower allowing me to have less. Each phase I have is only 12.8kwh total of 25kw between both banks.
Even with dishwashers overnight, heat transfer, fridges and all the other stuff batts are normally only 50% in the morning even in winter..
Has a lot to do with planning in the house and having Eco friendly appliances etc. we built the house from scratch so was able to ensure everything is simple and energy efficient.
Lithium was still new and everyone i knew in the solar game wouldn't touch it for off grid as it wasn't tried and tested enough. Amazing what the difference a couple of years makes, all the go now.
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Post by: janner5382 on July 02, 2017, 08:01:36 AM
No good thinking about it those rebates have gone forever and you know it , we're talking about now in the now worldWe're still getting 44c/Kw here in Qld. 😂😂😂
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Post by: Fizzie on July 02, 2017, 08:07:29 AM
Post by: briann532 on July 02, 2017, 10:49:58 AM
I would guess in the vicinity of $60k
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You can get a system like that for half that these days.
Prices dropping almost on a daily basis.
Post by: lloydus67 on July 02, 2017, 11:08:29 AM
We're still getting 44c/Kw here in Qld.You may be, but no one can get that rebate today
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I'm in Queensland and only get 6cents from energy Australia
I have had my solar in for 12 months, I generated approximately 1.2 times the amount I use, but that doesn't cover the charge, never mind the actual consumed cost
Lloyd
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Post by: trinityalyce on July 04, 2017, 03:49:22 PM
Yeah so those 32kwh were lead acid or lithium?
Although I use the power overnight, I only need batteries to support one night. Benefit of having lithium as u probably know is running them below 50%. I allow mine to drop to 15% but LG says I should let them go to 5%.
Normally like my caravan I have 880ah but will only let them run down to 50-60%..
But in the house as they are guaranteed I run them much lower allowing me to have less. Each phase I have is only 12.8kwh total of 25kw between both banks.
Even with dishwashers overnight, heat transfer, fridges and all the other stuff batts are normally only 50% in the morning even in winter..
Has a lot to do with planning in the house and having Eco friendly appliances etc. we built the house from scratch so was able to ensure everything is simple and energy efficient.
Would love to know if you can recommend where to find some quality info about all of this...? I've been wanting to go off the grid for years. We do have solar and have been taking advantage of the rebates for years, but nonetheless I'm keen to not be at the mercy of the power companies long-term. To be honest I haven't even started looking into it seriously, but some good info (or knowing where to find it!) would be a great start!
My other half is concerned about the battery life, efficiency of solar panels dropping with time, etc. etc. and keeps saying he's not interested at this stage until technology improves and efficiency losses aren't as significant... but I think its been a while since he did much research into the systems. For those with off-the-grid set ups, how long have you had your set ups and how does efficiency change with time?
Post by: vern on July 04, 2017, 04:09:18 PM
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Post by: trinityalyce on July 04, 2017, 04:57:56 PM
All i will say is do your research, you think used car salesman are bad! Use quality components is what i recommend, and have a look at the installers quality of work
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See that's what we're afraid of, but where to start with the research... ??? Not only can you not believe all the salesman tells you, I also certainly do not believe everything I read on the internet! ;)
Post by: firefox on July 04, 2017, 10:49:12 PM
Yes solar is very very dogdy.. some good players.
All my gear is warranty between 10 and 15 years, batteries especially.
The gear I have is the good panels, SMA and LG. nothing else.