MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: McGirr on June 04, 2017, 07:02:30 AM
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Doing some calculations on fuel usage driving the petrol cruiser compared to a turbo diesel cruiser. Calculations based on the cruiser achieving 25 ltrs per 100klm and a diesel achieving 15 ltrs per 100klm with fuel priced at $1.60 per ltre traveling 20,000 klms.
The difference being me spending $3200 more on fuel. I thought it would be more as it has taken me close to 3 years to travel that distance.
http://www.petrolcostcalculator.com.au/index.php?fldcardescription=Car&flddistance=20000&fldpetrol=1.60&fldlitresper100km=15&submit=Submit%21 (http://www.petrolcostcalculator.com.au/index.php?fldcardescription=Car&flddistance=20000&fldpetrol=1.60&fldlitresper100km=15&submit=Submit%21)
Mark
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Hi Mark,
It's always been hard to justify the additional purchase price of a diesel engine based solely on fuel cost.
Traditionally, the advantage of diesel has been in the extra touring range, but the later petrols seem to be closing that gap.
Water affecting petrol engines largely disappeared with electronic ignition.
The issues that come with the latest diesels should not be ignored IMO.
:cheers:
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I was at the crossroads between petrol & TD diesel.
Having sold my well looked after and very reliable carby petrol 80 series that over the years pumped $$$$ into her plus original purchase cost of $7K. Sold her for$6.5K with many offers of $4k-$4.5k.
TD's better touring value
Diesel holds value better
Diesel as a fuel is a lot less volatile than petrol
More torque
Better for towing
Better on fuel and mileage
Safer in deep water crossings
Availability of diesel spare parts in remoter place are higher than petrol
On the down side engine maintenance seems to be more $$$$ especially injectors.
Heavy beach work saw my petrol using 30L per 100km :'(
Here in SA, stock factory TD 80 series with 390,000kms plus are still fetching $18K at the lower end and $30K plus for reconditioned engine with a few mods.
I just cant justify big dollars for a good 4wd when I'll be taking her on lots of beaches, tight tacks getting her scratched not to mention all the mud and dust. I want to use my 4wd without cringing every time I use her in the above conditions.
Im sitting and waiting for the right priced TD Landcruiser 80 or 100 series, Patrol 4.2 Ute or Hilux D4D extra cab to come along.
I always wondered by Toyota never made a factory 80 series ute...............now that would of been the beez kneez of a 4wd.
Ive heard good things about the VW Amarok...... very low fuel usage and a capable 4wd but at a very high cost of purchase.
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15 odd years ago they did a whole of life comparison between buying a new petrol vs diesel gxl 80 series including depreciation, purchase price, running costs and servicing. It took the diesel 330,000 kms to break even with the petrol. I've only owned 2 diesel work vehicles. In a few years and a couple of euro steps they will cease to exist as an option in cars at all.
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Hi Mark,
It's always been hard to justify the additional purchase price of a diesel engine based solely on fuel cost.
Traditionally, the advantage of diesel has been in the extra touring range, but the later petrols seem to be closing that gap.
Water affecting petrol engines largely disappeared with electronic ignition.
The issues that come with the latest diesels should not be ignored IMO.
:cheers:
Agree Geoff, the more modern diesels are very sensitive to fuel issues hence more $$$$ to keep.
Resale value on diesels will always be better in comparison to petrol but then again you pay alot more for a diesel.
While here in Darwin I was going to look at a 200 series older model turbo diesel but most are stock standard so to kit one out to what I have in my current petrol cruiser would add thousands extra. So with that in mind and even thou a deisel would be great on fuel etc I will stick with my old petrol beast, setup the way I want. It only has 185k on the clock, with the recon motor being put in back when I had 145k on the clock.
Oh what a Feeling
Mark
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I am currently awaiting delivery of a Y62 Patrol. With a budget of around $65g & four rapidly growing sons, the mid-size diesel 4WD's such as Prado, Everest seemed too small, and an extra $30g for a 200 series diesel is almost laughable. After doing the calculations, the Petrol Patrol makes sense, and thats without taking into account the cost of expensive repairs to a modern diesel motor. :cheers:
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https://outbackjoe.com/macho-divertissement/macho-articles/diesel-vs-petrol/
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"Here in SA, stock factory TD 80 series with 390,000kms plus are still fetching $18K at the lower end and $30K plus for reconditioned engine with a few mods."
Yeah right so I picked up a 2015 Challenger LS PC like new for $33k with 16k on the clock with factory warranty to June 2020. The last of a dying breed with no DPF and add $1050 odd for a Provent kit, electronic EGR delete and Water Watch for some long term insurance and smooth running for its economic life. It's a pretty handy allrounder -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-_aFbhvN0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV-_aFbhvN0)
particularly the LS model with 4WD lock and capable of more than I'll be doing solo with the missus-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaPuDZcY3Zw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaPuDZcY3Zw)
So let's say it's good for 11 years with servicing, batteries, brake linings and tyres and simply chuck it away. That's only $60/week in depreciation so I figured couldn't do any better for a 3 tonne towhorse that won't break the bank with its 9.8L/100km combined economy. Besides in 11 years time I suspect it's residual value will be better than all the shiny Euro5/6 crap out there now and spare me tired old Toyotas and their parts prices for the next decade. I can live with a nice new 2.5L 4cyl diesel auto without all the dramas and I'm over the greasy hands :cheers:
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I am currently awaiting delivery of a Y62 Patrol. With a budget of around $65g & four rapidly growing sons, the mid-size diesel 4WD's such as Prado, Everest seemed too small, and an extra $30g for a 200 series diesel is almost laughable. After doing the calculations, the Petrol Patrol makes sense, and thats without taking into account the cost of expensive repairs to a modern diesel motor. :cheers:
You wont regret it. Fantastic 4wd.
Was once a diesel, not anymore.
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I see there may be some slight cost realignment on the horizon for suffering oiler fans, given most petrol cars currently run on 91RON-
http://www.motoring.com.au/government-plans-to-abolish-standard-unleaded-fuel-106576/ (http://www.motoring.com.au/government-plans-to-abolish-standard-unleaded-fuel-106576/)
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Few 4wd models offer a petrol or diesel option these days. Hard to make a like for like comparison these days.
For me personally. When looking at 2nd Prado's for the wife and tow car, the V6 petrol was a no brainer for cost and reliability over the 4cyl oiler. I'm not crossing the Canning with it, so extended range and remote fuel availability is of zero interest.
It works for our lifestyle.
Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
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And that's the bottom line for a 4.0L six and away they go from there?
https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Toyota-Landcruiser-Prado-2009/OAG-AD-14730755/?Cr=7 (https://www.carsales.com.au/dealer/details/Toyota-Landcruiser-Prado-2009/OAG-AD-14730755/?Cr=7)
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Hi Mark, Yep I agree with you, I own a old Diesel 80 its cost me around 5 grand to buy and spent another 5 on it but its super reliable now but I love diesels it my 5 4wd and the best I have owned, My brother inlaw he just bought his first 4wd 6 months ago a 1999 ford explorer 4lt V6 petrol efi auto a import Yanky one, with 120,000ks on the clock it has everything standard, cruise control, pump up shocks on the back that are automatic adjust to the load, its like brand new inside and out, he paid $1600 for it, then new tires and 12 months redgo around another $1600. it sits on 110ks on the highway towing his small CT no worries and get great fuel figures, with the 5 speed auto its doing 2100rpm at 110ks it should do 350,000ks, at them revs no worries, Craig
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I just like driving diesels
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ford explorer 4lt V6 petrol efi auto a import Yanky one, with 120,000ks on the clock ..
Those silly Yanks cant spell it should read have been badged as Ford Exploder .. ;D .. Thats why their cheap ..
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Agree Geoff, the more modern diesels are very sensitive to fuel issues hence more $$$$ to keep.
Resale value on diesels will always be better in comparison to petrol but then again you pay alot more for a diesel.
While here in Darwin I was going to look at a 200 series older model turbo diesel but most are stock standard so to kit one out to what I have in my current petrol cruiser would add thousands extra. So with that in mind and even thou a deisel would be great on fuel etc I will stick with my old petrol beast, setup the way I want. It only has 185k on the clock, with the recon motor being put in back when I had 145k on the clock.
Oh what a Feeling
Mark
Mark
My '93 'tilly 1HZ with after market turbo is on 320000+ original so it would appear that I'm better off with diesel by at least the price of a recon motor and double the mileage out of it, at the moment! (Touch wood 8))
I have been to Fraser several times with Broncos11 and his petrol V8 Cruiser and the fuel consumption difference between the two vehicles is staggering.
Steve
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Mark
My '93 'tilly 1HZ with after market turbo is on 320000+ original so it would appear that I'm better off with diesel by at least the price of a recon motor and double the mileage out of it, at the moment! (Touch wood 8))
I have been to Fraser several times with Broncos11 and his petrol V8 Cruiser and the fuel consumption difference between the two vehicles is staggering.
Steve
Keep on peddling. My '93 manual 1fzfe 80 series (now given to my dad) has just passed 500k km's and is still within factory compression - It's never had the head off it. Has used 18l/100 over the last 200k km - by receipts. The bloody thing used less petrol crossing the Simpson than my CRD auto Colorado.
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1993 Patrol, 4.2 litre EFI petrol, 129kw/330nm, good car but you could drive along and literally watch the fuel gauge go down, hook up the camper and the car was programmed to stop at every second servo. 20-22 litres per 100 km around town, 17 on a trip
2015 Prado, 3.0 litre CRD, 127kw/410nm, 10 litres per 100 kms around town, 9.2 on a trip, tows a 2 tonne hybrid never goes over 14L per 100.
All have their good and bad points but I know what I'd rather own.
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2015 Prado, 3.0 litre CRD, 127kw/410nm, 10 litres per 100 kms around town, 9.2 on a trip, tows a 2 tonne hybrid never goes over 14L per 100.
Good figures for the Prado 3.0L (I reckon they match the 2.5L Challenger sans EGR now) and is yours fitted with DPF? Seems EGR and DPF are costing diesel owners some significant achievable fuel economy quantified here-
http://theconversation.com/australias-new-emissions-rules-will-put-yet-another-bump-in-the-road-for-diesels-49510 (http://theconversation.com/australias-new-emissions-rules-will-put-yet-another-bump-in-the-road-for-diesels-49510)
"Where does this leave diesel cars versus petrol ones? Diesel engines have historically offered fuel economy savings of 5-20% relative to petrol (see here and here), and these savings increase with the size and weight of the vehicle.
Against these savings must be weighed the generally higher price of diesel fuel over petrol in Australia, greater vehicle purchase and maintenance costs, and now the fuel economy penalty caused by new emissions control systems.
EGR and DPFs can reduce fuel economy by up to 6% and 3%, respectively. The need to regenerate DPFs through periodic long-distance driving might be a burden for some drivers not used to driving these distances.
As increasingly stringent emissions standards begin to weaken the financial rationale for owning a diesel, we may start to see diesel car sales drop – particularly for small and mid-sized passenger cars, where the fuel economy advantages were weakest to begin with"
Edit: No just realised that 3.0L GLX Prado wouldn't have DPF running from 2010-15 as like the MN Triton/Challenger series if they hadn't changed the model through 2013 then they could run it without DPF until the 2016 absolute deadline for Euro5 so it will be a sought after model second hand. Interesting how they both dropped the engine capacity back slightly to get over the hurdle.
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1993 Patrol,
2015 Prado,
All have their good and bad points but I know what I'd rather own.
Also talking about 22 years of development in between there..
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Also talking about 22 years of development in between there..
Fair point but I spent a fair bit of time behind the wheel of an 80 series with the 4.5 litre petrol and it was pretty much the same as the Patrol, I have a mate with a 200 series 4.7 litre V8 petrol and it is only slightly better so I don't think the years have changed a petrol's thirst that much.
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The years have certainly affected diesel reliability though. Good luck getting a d4d as far as either of those petrol engines.
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Fair point but I spent a fair bit of time behind the wheel of an 80 series with the 4.5 litre petrol and it was pretty much the same as the Patrol, I have a mate with a 200 series 4.7 litre V8 petrol and it is only slightly better so I don't think the years have changed a petrol's thirst that much.
Remember also in those 22 years. The Cruiser has stacked on about 750kg, grown 2 cylinders and 200cc. Powers also increased close to 100kw and 100nm.
Development in efficency has probably been offset by weight, capacity and grunt.
The years have certainly affected diesel reliability though. Good luck getting a d4d as far as either of those petrol engines.
X2
Longevity in the new small capacity, higher revving diesels will be an issue.
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Longevity in the new small capacity, higher revving diesels will be an issue.
Having joined the club I'm naturally interested in modern diesel longevity- https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/q-and-a/toyota-prado-d4d-diesel-7948 (https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-advice/q-and-a/toyota-prado-d4d-diesel-7948)
and noticed with the 16k Challenger I bought already having had its 12months/15k dealer service there was an item- 'Treatment,Fuel,Diesel' for $18.60 and it seems there are suppliers of various treatments touting their benefits- http://costeffective.com.au/2017/03/05/hilux-d4d-bad-fuel-injector-problem-fix-it-for-54/ (http://costeffective.com.au/2017/03/05/hilux-d4d-bad-fuel-injector-problem-fix-it-for-54/)
What are other owners finding with their service shops and is this sort of treatment now par for the course with these modern diesels?
Note: If the car averages say 10L/100kms for 15000kms that's 1500L of fuel for which that $18.60 adds another 1.24c/L to the fuel bill or 1% of fuel economy at $1.24/L and what other chemical cocktail costs do I have to amortise like that in future?