Post by: UIZ733 on November 12, 2016, 09:46:47 AM
Is there any reason FOR NOT using the halving joint?
Post by: xcvator on November 12, 2016, 11:37:55 AM
Post by: Rumpig on November 12, 2016, 03:11:06 PM
Post by: V8ute on November 12, 2016, 03:49:26 PM
Only my opinion but i would be making sure its treated (H3) and primed first.
:cheers:
V8ute
Post by: UIZ733 on November 12, 2016, 04:41:57 PM
Exactly as Rumpig said, never seen fascia joined like that, Old skool top plates were joined like that.Thanks folks. It is treated and primed H3 Pine courtesy of Masters ;D with 50% off.
Only my opinion but i would be making sure its treated (H3) and primed first.
:cheers:
V8ute
Post by: sol on November 12, 2016, 06:18:02 PM
Thanks folks. It is treated and primed H3 Pine courtesy of Masters ;D with 50% off.
Geeeezzzz you're a talented man mate :cup: ;D ;D
:cheers:
Post by: #jonesy on November 13, 2016, 06:21:54 AM
Post by: oldmate on November 13, 2016, 06:34:57 AM
Thanks folks. It is treated and primed H3 Pine courtesy of Masters ;D with 50% off.
Yep and get some primer and paint all your cuts as you go. And like Mal said, just join the same as your bottom pic.
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Post by: UIZ733 on November 13, 2016, 08:04:41 AM
Thanks for the vote of confidence mate. ;D
Geeeezzzz you're a talented man mate :cup: ;D ;D
:cheers:
Got most of the gear to prove i'm the real deal also.
Post by: GGV8Cruza on November 13, 2016, 08:42:12 AM
GG
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Post by: Rumpig on November 13, 2016, 08:50:49 AM
Post by: GBC on November 13, 2016, 01:02:47 PM
A halving joint in a thin board would be a balls up.
Post by: tracker on November 13, 2016, 01:55:42 PM
I need to replace approximately 12m of fascia. It is a straight run with no corner joints involved. I am using 230 X 30 softwood (hoop pine?). The two methods of joining the pieces that I'm considering are; mitre or halving joints. See illustrations. The halving joint would be router formed, whereas the mitre would be 'hand cut'. Being router cut it 'should' a better quality finish. I don't have access to a radial arm saw to cut the mitre, if that is what is required.
Is there any reason FOR NOT using the halving joint?
Just wondering how many older houses are still holding to-gether after 50 years using good seasoned timber and joints that are built for strength and not a quick method.....IE mortise and tenon ...dove tail.. ect. and the first method described..... Just saying.
Cheers Tracker.
Post by: Rumpig on November 13, 2016, 02:14:10 PM
in 25 years as a carpenter doing numerous old house renos i have never seen a fascia done with any of those joints you listed, which is what the original question was asked about. The other joints you mention have suitable purposes for other applications, not fascia board joints....just saying
Just wondering how many older houses are still holding to-gether after 50 years using good seasoned timber and joints that are built for strength and not a quick method.....IE mortise and tenon ...dove tail.. ect. and the first method described..... Just saying.
Cheers Tracker.
Post by: tracker on November 13, 2016, 02:47:04 PM
in 25 years as a carpenter doing numerous old house renos i have never seen a fascia done with any of those joints you listed, which is what the original question was asked about. The other joints you mention have suitable purposes for other applications, not fascia board joints....just saying
Sry. mate ...was not for one minute was sugesting these joints would be used in this application.....i'm just saying that the different joints that were used in the past have gone by the way side......the check out joint could be used instead of the mitre..and i would say ...it's probably stronger.......the old timber joints are gone....but ..thats progress.... ;D ;D
Post by: Hairs on November 13, 2016, 06:31:56 PM
in 25 years as a carpenter doing numerous old house renos i have never seen a fascia done with any of those joints you listed, which is what the original question was asked about. The other joints you mention have suitable purposes for other applications, not fascia board joints....just saying
(http://www.clarencecoastpropertymaintenance.com.au/images/smilies/whattheysaid.gif)
:cheers:
Water penetration, lack of sealing joints.
See if everyday.
>:D
Post by: Troopy_03 on November 13, 2016, 06:58:17 PM
Post by: Hairs on November 13, 2016, 07:27:30 PM
The matching of new to old material is a great game ;D
Even better, trying to match 40 year old tiles that tenants have broken, yeah good luck with that.
;D
Post by: prodigyrf on November 13, 2016, 07:28:44 PM
http://www.kopperspc.com.au/pdf/Timber%20Care%20FAQ.pdf (http://www.kopperspc.com.au/pdf/Timber%20Care%20FAQ.pdf)
Post by: ATC on November 13, 2016, 07:59:44 PM
Try to be supportive, use phrases like "yeah a drop saw is good, but you might also need a triton workbench to mount it on", or constructive suggestions like "don't buy brand x, they are crap..." even "you might have difficult using a drop saw to do a mitre join, perhaps buy a router as well".
Just saying....
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Post by: ATC on November 13, 2016, 08:07:26 PM
What the others said but treat the cut ends with a liberal dose of neat glycol (coolant) to prevent fungal decay in future. Either that or proprietary gear like Protim solignum XJ
http://www.kopperspc.com.au/pdf/Timber%20Care%20FAQ.pdf (http://www.kopperspc.com.au/pdf/Timber%20Care%20FAQ.pdf)
Thanks,
I have a few facia boards that will need replacing sooner than i thought.
Gutters over flowed this weekend after a heavy downpoor, cleaned out the gutter, but saw that the facias are starting to rot.
Will read up on this stuff a bit, and how to joint the boards.
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Post by: kylarama on November 13, 2016, 08:46:42 PM
On behalf of those of us here that aren't tradesmen, if someone comes up with a reasonable excuse that the missus will believe eg "you might need a dropsaw for that job" then we're going to run with that....
Try to be supportive, use phrases like "yeah a drop saw is good, but you might also need a triton workbench to mount it on", or constructive suggestions like "don't buy brand x, they are crap..." even "you might have difficult using a drop saw to do a mitre join, perhaps buy a router as well".
Just saying....
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As I qualified Carpenter, I can confirm that the correct way to install fascia boards us as follows.
Walk into a store like Total Tools and purchase one of everything you think you need, looks like it could be handy or is just plain cool. The more powerful and sharper teeth, the better.
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Post by: ATC on November 13, 2016, 08:58:27 PM
Done, but I'll still re-read the thread and make sure that i understand what specific tools with lots of sharp teeth, or new tool, is required to take them off, prepare, prime, and replace....
As I qualified Carpenter, I can confirm that the correct way to install fascia boards us as follows.
Walk into a store like Total Tools and purchase one of everything you think you need, looks like it could be handy or is just plain cool. The more powerful and sharper teeth, the better.
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Sent from my SM-T815Y using Tapatalk
Post by: terravista on November 14, 2016, 10:30:33 AM
In ancient times and seasoned hardwood was never heard of (except on the Ark when Noah urinated over the side) the mitre joint was used. That way when you get a bit of shrinkage over the length of the timber there would be no obvious gap except when viewed from a 45 degree angle straight into the join. Now with seasoned and treated softwood, it would not be so critical.
And hell yes, as recommended by 90% of all Dentists, a drop saw will make the job look professionally done and also stop the curtains fading as a bonus.
Cheers
Post by: #jonesy on November 14, 2016, 03:09:00 PM
On behalf of those of us here that aren't tradesmen, if someone comes up with a reasonable excuse that the missus will believe eg "you might need a dropsaw for that job" then we're going to run with that....Finally.. Someone read my post.
Try to be supportive, use phrases like "yeah a drop saw is good, but you might also need a triton workbench to mount it on", or constructive suggestions like "don't buy brand x, they are crap..." even "you might have difficult using a drop saw to do a mitre join, perhaps buy a router as well".
Just saying....
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Every big job I do I buy a "necessary" tool. (Sometimes I actually use it on that job)
My wife is happy for me to do it as it does make the jobs much easier with the right gear.
You could use the square and hand held saw, but that means marking where the cut is needed, then measuring back along the board to allow for the saw base. Easier to by a drop saw, that had a wide enough cut, or if you can get away with it a sliding compound saw for even wider cuts.
On the joints, mortise and tenon, and dovetail are mostly furniture joints
Mitre joints as described and a lot of other joints like scribed corners for cornices are made to hide shrinkage, things not being square etc. (and are legitimate joints)
Post by: Rumpig on November 14, 2016, 05:29:10 PM
if it was easier and quicker to do with a drop saw I would do it that way, it would save me time and money...but it's not, so I don't use one on fascia, or cutting things like verandah decking boards either. There is no need to mark back from the cut line, just start the saw with the square holding it slightly long away from the line, then slide the square slowly back until the blade hits the right spot to cut it. When you've done a job for 25 years you learn what works best to save time, your way will work, just takes abit longer is all. When you get up on the scaffold and find it's a touch long or the cut is out abit, have fun climbing back down and taking it to your drop saw...but if you have a square and power saw on the scaf with you, just adjust the cut and keep going.
You could use the square and hand held saw, but that means marking where the cut is needed, then measuring back along the board to allow for the saw base. Easier to by a drop saw, that had a wide enough cut, or if you can get away with it a sliding compound saw for even wider cuts.
Post by: GBC on November 14, 2016, 05:50:17 PM
Finally.. Someone read my post.
Every big job I do I buy a "necessary" tool. (Sometimes I actually use it on that job)
My wife is happy for me to do it as it does make the jobs much easier with the right gear.
You could use the square and hand held saw, but that means marking where the cut is needed, then measuring back along the board to allow for the saw base. Easier to by a drop saw, that had a wide enough cut, or if you can get away with it a sliding compound saw for even wider cuts.
On the joints, mortise and tenon, and dovetail are mostly furniture joints
Mitre joints as described and a lot of other joints like scribed corners for cornices are made to hide shrinkage, things not being square etc. (and are legitimate joints)
Go the bottom sketch, or easier yet, just butt joint them with a bit of flexible sealer squished in.
In ancient times and seasoned hardwood was never heard of (except on the Ark when Noah urinated over the side) the mitre joint was used. That way when you get a bit of shrinkage over the length of the timber there would be no obvious gap except when viewed from a 45 degree angle straight into the join. Now with seasoned and treated softwood, it would not be so critical.
And hell yes, as recommended by 90% of all Dentists, a drop saw will make the job look professionally done and also stop the curtains fading as a bonus.
Cheers
You pair need to reread the title and slowly back away from the thread. Someone who knows less than you pair might read this and think you have a clue....
Post by: Troopy_03 on November 15, 2016, 07:52:54 AM
Post by: oldmate on November 15, 2016, 11:57:25 AM
Post by: Rumpig on November 15, 2016, 12:07:04 PM
I'm still trying to work out how you clamp a 230mm wide fascia board into a "drop saw" to cut a 45deg angle. Or do you guys actually mean a mitre saw?those in the trade call it a drop saw no matter the set up, nobody on a site says go cut that on the mitre saw ;)
Post by: terravista on November 15, 2016, 01:26:35 PM
I'm still trying to work out how you clamp a 230mm wide fascia board into a "drop saw" to cut a 45deg angle. Or do you guys actually mean a mitre saw?
Purely scientific.
If you hold a saw up off the floor then then let go, floating saws float, drop saws drop and I guess a mitre saw mitres.
All mine drop, so obviously are called drop saws. Never seen one mitre or float yet.
Post by: scrapsD40 on November 15, 2016, 02:41:37 PM
I'm still trying to work out how you clamp a 230mm wide fascia board into a "drop saw" to cut a 45deg angle. Or do you guys actually mean a mitre saw?Slide compound saw maybe
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on November 15, 2016, 06:13:15 PM
Slide compound saw maybe
Agree.
Clamp it flat. After having checked the size for what you want.
Set blade to 45Deg. Go for it. Get that wonderful exercise for your grip and shoulder/back, pull and release/push back.
Then pick up the wrong bit, and try to fit it.
That right Scott?
Post by: Rumpig on November 15, 2016, 06:39:01 PM
Post by: oldmate on November 15, 2016, 07:11:43 PM
Was doing timber fascia at work today, no drop saw / sliding mitre saw used...and the pile of fascia was sitting right beside the drop saw bench also ;)
yeah im with you mal.. i dont use the drop either
Post by: scrapsD40 on November 15, 2016, 07:16:44 PM
yeah im with you mal.. i dont use the drop eitherIn my days I would have used a tenon saw
Post by: GBC on November 15, 2016, 07:31:55 PM
In my days I would have used a tenon saw
So you dovetail fascia together? Got to respect that level of OCD :cheers:
Post by: scrapsD40 on November 15, 2016, 07:35:20 PM
Got to respect that level of OCD :cheers:now ya talkin
with timber dowel pegs instead of screws and nailsPost by: GBC on November 15, 2016, 07:43:28 PM
Post by: scrapsD40 on November 15, 2016, 07:55:28 PM
Google images always wins. Not quite a dt.
Lol.... that's me on the left. Oldmate with the funny hat on the right(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161115/439f55e9d3c5c88995e9f4cbe6b86299.jpg)
Post by: GBC on November 15, 2016, 08:09:29 PM
Post by: prodigyrf on November 15, 2016, 09:47:34 PM
https://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-1600w-254mm-slide-compound-mitre-saw_p6290109 (https://www.bunnings.com.au/ozito-1600w-254mm-slide-compound-mitre-saw_p6290109)
Notice it cuts 254mm wide at right angles which covers most domestic timber widths and once you've bought one you'll find lots of uses for it.
By the way you have to get to know your own saw and where to set it to get the exact angles you want as they all have their slight quirks/misalignments to the markings although less so with higher quality saws that are more precise and rigid in action (cheaper saws may flex more if you're not more careful/gentle with them)
Post by: prodigyrf on November 15, 2016, 09:54:44 PM
https://www.bunnings.com.au/makita-1650w-305mm-slide-compound-mitre-saw_p6240076 (https://www.bunnings.com.au/makita-1650w-305mm-slide-compound-mitre-saw_p6240076)
Post by: Troopy_03 on November 16, 2016, 09:53:47 AM
Purely scientific.
If you hold a saw up off the floor then then let go, floating saws float, drop saws drop and I guess a mitre saw mitres.
All mine drop, so obviously are called drop saws. Never seen one mitre or float yet.
Ah OK, so I've been misnaming all my tools. The drop drill, drop hammer, drop spanners, drop etc.. etc LOL
Edigt: And I probably could have got off a charge of calling my SGT a drop kick, when I was a CPL, had I used that logic.. ;D
Post by: terravista on November 16, 2016, 12:27:20 PM
Ah OK, so I've been misnaming all my tools. The drop drill, drop hammer, drop spanners, drop etc.. etc LOL
Unless you get a fixit job on the Space Station. Then all your tools would be float tools.