Post by: Meggsie on October 31, 2016, 07:16:48 PM
Family Trip with two kids (10 & 12).
Cheers
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Post by: Rainsey on November 01, 2016, 07:41:51 AM
The Ultimate requires double the width of the camper so you may have to be a bit more choosy over where you set up camp. A lot of camping spots in some National Parks and state forrests are now putting pine posts or bollards in making the spot about the width of your vehicle. Flipping open the Ultimate means setting up camp over these pests.
The ultimate probably has more storage options and is lighter on the ball weight than the Tvan. The ultimate also has a funky room that can be made up under the main bed area for the kids, but you can sleep 2 comfortably on the deck of the Tvan.
What you probably need to do is think past the Cape and more long term. Either way. Each has its benefits, each has its draw backs.
I chose the Tvan due to the space in setting up, the outside kitchen, the suspension and if its just the two of you the ability to lift the back, jump in and pull it down behind you. Zero set up if you want to be minimalistic.
Cheers
Rainsey
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Post by: time on November 01, 2016, 08:08:14 AM
Post by: wakychapmans on November 01, 2016, 09:39:16 AM
Keeping in mind that we are a family of 2 plus dog. No kids. these are just my impressions as I have researched all three in depth, trolled the owners forums and spent time at shows in all three.
Toughness - Tvan by a tiny amount, followed very closely by the Vista RV, then the Ultimate.
Both the Tvan and the Vista are running very very similar suspension designs and I believe that Vista's parent company used to manufacture the Tvan chassis (though I could be wrong on that) It's not like I think the Ultimate is "no good"... it's massively in front of many (most?) campers out there currently. But against the other two... it's a close third.
Space - Ultimate first. then the Vista, then the Tvan.
Having sat in all three, the Ultimate has the most feeling of "s-p-a-c-e". It's just so airy and "open". But then that comes at a price. Setup time. next would be a tie depending on what you want in a trailer. The Tvan has the tent area, but it must be set up. While the Vista (esp the XL) has interior space with as good as zero setup time.
Comforts - this one is difficult... for me, the Tvan is perfect. But my wife now prefers the Vista. I'll call it in her favour. Vista first, Tvan second and Ultimate third. (basing that partially on setup time to actually access the comforts)
Setup time - Vista, then Tvan, then Ultimate.
for a couple, the Vista is just open the door, walk inside, lay down and sleep. The Tvan is next, but you need to open the tail pod and drop the deck, then the Ultimate which has much canvas.
Family friendly - well now this is where it all falls on its head... Ultimate first, then Tvan and then the Vista. Not actually *having* a family makes it difficult for me to comment accurately... But the upper deck space in the Ultimate, plus the option of the kids room underneath the adult bed makes for plenty of space. The Tvan's deck does provide lots of space as well, but the Vista would require swags or an Oztent for the kids.
End result - for us, (as in wife and I plus dog), we'd go the Tvan for what we want to do with it. (plus on the 2nd hand market, they're more in our price range)
However... if a Vista XL popped on the 2nd hand market at sub 30k, then that would suddenly become a much tougher decision.
All these thoughts are just my opinions and I'm sure actual owners of any of the three will set me straight where I may have commented poorly out of ignorance...
Post by: oldmate on November 01, 2016, 10:30:01 AM
We looked at both. Chose ultimate for a few reasons.
1) Much more space inside when open. Can sit inside in bad weather or when flies are really bad and eat in piece.
2) Lighter camper on the ball and gross. Infact from memory when you added the whole fridge box thing to the tvan it made the ball weight around the 250kg.
3) We have done plenty of travelling and never found side opening a problem, especially when you can open over small bushes or bollards as it doesnt need ground space. you can also easily dissconnect and swing trailer around if it suits better.
Plenty of other reasons, but the ultimate just suited us better. We dont have kids that travel with us, but i know plenty of owners that do.
The Tvan is a great unit, we just felt a little Claustrophobic in it.
There is probably plenty for and against each unit depending on the person and there purpose
Post by: alnjan on November 01, 2016, 01:51:08 PM
Post by: KathyL on November 01, 2016, 02:58:19 PM
1. we can definitely take offroad;
2. is light (both ball weight and overall weight);
3. has at least a queen size bed that you get into from the foot end;
4. has sufficient internal height for a tall person (not me);
5. one short person (me) can setup/pack up quickly and easily;
6. has an internal kitchen (just so that we have the *option* of cooking inside if the weather or bugs turns nasty);
7. will hold its value when the time comes for us to sell it.
We considered a few other camper trailers/hybrid campers but when we saw them at the Penrith Caravan and Camping Expo last Friday we realised they didn't satisfy our requirements - most had only double beds (one of which also had a corner cut off!) that you could only get into from one side, they were all MUCH heavier than the Ultimate, some definitely couldn't be setup/packed up easily or quickly by one short person, and some clearly weren't meant for people who are almost 2m tall!
The following is a quote from another forum and my response:
Quote
The Ultimate ... has an internal kitchen setup similar to a caravan, great to cook out of the bugs & flys but the smell goes through your bedding & you can't access the stove & sink for a quick lunch stop. Dust on the back door & wet canvas on the mattress are but some of the issues to contend with.
We've just completed an almost six month long trip around Australia - blog here: Not at home today (http://not-at-home.today/) - with our Ultimate camper during which we had it setup for 136 nights (including one stretch where we used it every night for more than six weeks in a row).
We cooked/prepared meals inside the camper for probably 100 of those nights (and cooked toast almost every morning) and it was great to be able to cook/prepare meals inside when there were swarms of flies/mozzies/midgies outside or when it was pouring rain, blowing a gale, stinking hot or freezing cold. We also had a two burner gas stove and Weber BBQ that we used for cooking meals outside. There were never any lingering/residual smells from the cooking on our clothes, bedding or the canvas. That said, we never fried foods inside or used onion or garlic (Ron can't eat them).
We didn't find not having access to the stove or sink while travelling a problem - we simply prepared our lunch ahead of time and put it in the car fridge, always kept water in the car and had the option of using either a Thermos or single burner stove and kettle we keep in the Drifta drawers if we wanted boiling water.
We had dust on the back step every day while travelling along unsealed roads but didn't find having to spend a minute or so brushing it off to be onerous even when we were moving on every day.
Keeping the mattresses dry as part of a wet packup was an issue but this was easily dealt with by using a plastic painters dropsheet to wrap around the mattresses before collapsing the canvas top.
We are very happy with the Ultimate camper and I can honestly say that everyone of our requirements was met (but I also know several TVan owners who say the same thing!). I don't know think there is any such thing as the 'perfect' camper trailer (including the hybrids like the TVan, Ultimate and Kimberley) because we all have different budgets, needs and priorities. Ultimately I think it comes down to finding a product within your budget that satisfies as many of your needs and priorities as possible and then deciding if you can live with whatever shortcomings it has.
Post by: gronk on November 01, 2016, 04:23:55 PM
Having any sort of camper, you want to look at more than one trip, and decide which one would suit 2 adults and 2 kids longer term ? Your kids are big enough to go into swags, but if you insist they go in a camper, then personally I wouldn't have any of those 3 mentioned if camping regularly ( with kids ).
Have you looked at a normal or rear fold soft floor ?
Post by: Chris J on November 01, 2016, 04:34:38 PM
Overpriced but an exceptional camper, best suited for couples, quick setup, they will go anywhere.
Would I buy another one, probably yes?
Regards, Chris.
Post by: oldmate on November 01, 2016, 05:00:51 PM
rm ? Your kids are big enough to go into swags, but if you insist they go in a camper, then personally I wouldn't have any of those 3 mentioned if camping regularly ( with kids ).
Have you looked at a normal or rear fold soft floor ?
Why??
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Post by: Meggsie on November 01, 2016, 05:10:37 PM
After having 2 KK's and looked at all the campers mentioned ( and more ), we decided on a Crossover type camper because ultimately (sic ) we wanted to get away from canvas !!
Having any sort of camper, you want to look at more than one trip, and decide which one would suit 2 adults and 2 kids longer term ? Your kids are big enough to go into swags, but if you insist they go in a camper, then personally I wouldn't have any of those 3 mentioned if camping regularly ( with kids ).
Have you looked at a normal or rear fold soft floor ?
We had a soft floor camper and did a 3 month trip around OZ and was good. But sick of all that canvas and being on the ground. We got drowned a couple of times.. would like to be off the ground this time.
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Post by: Meggsie on November 01, 2016, 05:12:12 PM
After having 2 KK's and looked at all the campers mentioned ( and more ), we decided on a Crossover type camper because ultimately (sic ) we wanted to get away from canvas !!Kids love their swags but are concerned about crocs and (so is the wife)
Having any sort of camper, you want to look at more than one trip, and decide which one would suit 2 adults and 2 kids longer term ? Your kids are big enough to go into swags, but if you insist they go in a camper, then personally I wouldn't have any of those 3 mentioned if camping regularly ( with kids ).
Have you looked at a normal or rear fold soft floor ?
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Post by: gronk on November 01, 2016, 06:02:54 PM
Why??
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Well, to kill 2 posts with one......where would 2 big kids sleep in an Ultimate up off the ground ? Is there enough room up top for 4 people to sleep ?
Post by: Meggsie on November 01, 2016, 06:54:41 PM
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Post by: patroldude on November 01, 2016, 07:02:35 PM
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Post by: Bird on November 01, 2016, 07:16:03 PM
Quote from: Meggsie
On the king size mattress can sleep 3, and one on the lounge.and that's the best option for that sort of $ ??? ???
Post by: oldmate on November 01, 2016, 07:28:19 PM
Well, to kill 2 posts with one......where would 2 big kids sleep in an Ultimate up off the ground ? Is there enough room up top for 4 people to sleep ?
to answer it short Yes!!!!
Post by: oldmate on November 01, 2016, 07:29:34 PM
and that's the best option for that sort of $ ??? ???
No the best option is to dump the rat bag kids outside in their own stuff
Post by: Meggsie on November 01, 2016, 08:15:11 PM
and that's the best option for that sort of $ ??? ???
About $30 - $35k
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Post by: wakychapmans on November 01, 2016, 08:28:51 PM
About $30 - $35kplenty of Ultimates and Tvans in that price range.
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Post by: Bird on November 01, 2016, 08:33:14 PM
Quote from: Meggsie
About $30 - $35k
so for 35 grand you have kids in bed with you? Surely theres other trailers where you don't have to have kids on the workbench with you?
Post by: Meggsie on November 01, 2016, 08:44:56 PM
so for 35 grand you have kids in bed with you? Surely theres other trailers where you don't have to have kids on the workbench with you?
Up for suggestions....
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Post by: Rumpig on November 01, 2016, 08:46:07 PM
so for 35 grand you have kids in bed with you? Surely theres other trailers where you don't have to have kids on the workbench with you?technically gronk asked....
Is there enough room up top for 4 people to sleep ?to which Meggsie said
On the king size mattress can sleep 3, and one on the lounge.not seeing kids mentioned there mate...party time in the Ulti hey :o ;) ;D ;D ;D
Post by: sharkcaver on November 01, 2016, 09:32:23 PM
so for 35 grand you have kids in bed with you? Surely theres other trailers where you don't have to have kids on the workbench with you?
As an ultimate owner, I agree. I don't want my kids in bed with me. Lucky I only have one and made an infill cushion for the lounge. That can still be a pain trying to get in/out of bed when she is asleep, but at least she is not in my bed. Come 2 kids, then I would do some homework there. As far as the under bed room is concerned, I would just buy a decent tent. Will save you both coin and set up time if you pick the right one. Most ulti accessories will cost you a kidney.
Post by: Meggsie on November 01, 2016, 09:44:02 PM
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Post by: oldmate on November 01, 2016, 10:15:47 PM
Rooftop tent may be the go for the kids...
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It seems that your biggest concern is getting the kids off the ground for your cape trip?? First trip up? Going to the main touristy destinations? Crocs won't really be a drama at your camps. I certainly won't be swimming in lots of rivers but 100's of people swag it every year up the cape.
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Post by: oldmate on November 01, 2016, 10:17:50 PM
technically gronk asked....to which Meggsie saidThere's a reason I have a ulti and your stuck with a kk and kids.
not seeing kids mentioned there mate...party time in the Ulti hey :o ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Post by: oldmate on November 01, 2016, 10:19:55 PM
As an ultimate owner, I agree. I don't want my kids in bed with me. Lucky I only have one and made an infill cushion for the lounge. That can still be a pain trying to get in/out of bed when she is asleep, but at least she is not in my bed. Come 2 kids, then I would do some homework there. As far as the under bed room is concerned, I would just buy a decent tent. Will save you both coin and set up time if you pick the right one. Most ulti accessories will cost you a kidney.
Yep. I'm with Shane. Throw the kids in their own tent, with the responsibility that comes with it, yes it's good for them. And hit the road
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Post by: Rumpig on November 01, 2016, 10:28:02 PM
There's a reason I have a ulti and your stuck with a kk and kids.;D ;D ;D
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Post by: sharkcaver on November 01, 2016, 10:42:39 PM
Like Oldmate said above, if old enough, starting them out in a tent, with parents nearby, will be a wonderful part of their education into camping and touring. You cant sleep with mum and dad forever and you have to learn to camp by yourself eventually.
Post by: Fathom on November 02, 2016, 05:19:45 AM
Possibly while swimming or fishing.... but unlikely camping.
Probably best to buy what suits you long term rather than suited for one trip.
Someone asked what other options if you wanted kids etc off the ground....and in their own beds...
You could look at some of the newer forward folds that have the extra space for kiddies?
Several of the FF companies are doing these larger models.
Or something like the Breakaway 2 plus 2. Can be had new for the money mentioned above.
Post by: Meggsie on December 19, 2016, 03:41:50 PM
Anyone experienced a VistaRV?
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Post by: peter_mcc on December 19, 2016, 05:12:17 PM
For us, the advantages of having the kids inside outweigh the disadvantages. We tend to move often rather than setting up in one place for a while. Having the kids inside means we don't need to be as picky about a site - there have been lots of times where if the kids were in a tent a otherwise nice site would need to be bypassed because there was nowhere for the tent. The Tvan can set up almost anywhere and some of the great sites we've been at haven't been tent friendly (muddy, rocky, not flat, combination of all those and more!).
The Tvan's super fast to pack up - all the bedding goes onto the main bed first (not stuffed - just chucked up the end). Then the bunk rails go on, then all the bags go on the tail end of the bed. Because it's quick it doesn't matter if we set up in the dark (because we got there late, it was hot, we couldn't be bothered, there were more fun things to do).
We looked at the VistaRV and I don't think there was any space inside where the kids could easily go.
Post by: Hewy54 on December 19, 2016, 05:22:50 PM
So thanks to everyone for their comments. We may have narrowed it down to a 2012 Tvan (wider/higher inside) and have more store options....or a Vista RV.We went from soft floor to KK to Vista XL.
Anyone experienced a VistaRV?
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Looked at the Tvan, but still a bit of set up and still has canvas.
Only the two of us so the Vista comes out a winner in every way.
The ensuite at the back could be adapted to make room for bunks.
For two, I cannot fault the Vista. Super quick set up, outstanding build quality, and it will go anywhere I am game to take the car.
Post by: Meggsie on December 19, 2016, 09:45:51 PM
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Post by: Hewy54 on December 20, 2016, 06:41:20 AM
If I load it with 120 kg of water, 60 l of fuel, wood, and all the stuff needed for 3 weeks outback camping (ie all food drinks etc) I would be at 1700 ATM.
Post by: Meggsie on December 20, 2016, 06:42:59 AM
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Post by: chester ver2.0 on December 20, 2016, 07:59:54 AM
Now i am a lazy bugger but i like the idea of the tvan for just throwing a doona on the bed shutting the back and driving off
Post by: oldmate on December 20, 2016, 01:52:00 PM
i own neither but what put me off the ultimate compared to the tvan is that in the ultimate you have to completely unmake the bed and even move the mattresses down on the seats to fold the thing up.
That's most people's gripe with them, oh and no out door kitchen. It's takes less then 15secs to throw the 3 mattresses up into position, and they each have their own fitted sheet already on.
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Post by: Jules456 on December 25, 2016, 10:43:36 PM
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Post by: chester ver2.0 on January 24, 2017, 03:28:20 PM
After living in Darwin for nearly 30 years and 8 in North Queensland, no way I'd have my kids in a tent whilst I was tucked away in a camper. Just me though. We are investing (for a big lap) in a lifestyle hyper camper. Bunks available for the two kids inside. Breakaway plus 2 is an option if budget and second hand availability an issue.
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Yeah but you guys are backwards up there ;D
Post by: Jules456 on February 20, 2017, 08:39:22 PM
Yeah but you guys are backwards up there ;DDamn right
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Post by: Meggsie on February 22, 2017, 01:26:28 PM
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Post by: WilSurf on February 22, 2017, 01:43:59 PM
If it was just the two of us we would have the Tvan.
I still like them.
Post by: Bird on February 22, 2017, 01:49:27 PM
May as well go a soft floor with lots of room to start with.
Post by: WilSurf on February 22, 2017, 02:10:52 PM
Doesn't throwing the kids outside in their own tent defeat the purpose of a fast setup trailer like a hardfloor ???
Not as long as the kids are setting up their own tent. :-)
Post by: Discoduck on February 22, 2017, 07:53:19 PM
I travel alone and can set-up the tent section myself in 4 1/2 minutes and pack-up in closer to 5min. With a partner it would be half that time.
Enjoy your trips; I'm sure you will.
Post by: Alan Loy on February 22, 2017, 08:39:14 PM
We settled on a Tvan. Kids will be OUTSIDE!
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We just joined the Tvan brigade today as we picked up our Tvan. Have to say that you could easily put a couple of kids in the tent section, this would be pretty quick to put up. Having said that if the parents were just putting on the canvas screen & the kids were putting up their own tent it would be easier.
I guess you have options :cup:
Post by: markeaust on March 08, 2017, 12:24:50 AM
They go on a bunk setup which (just) fits across the back of the hard floor. The window there gives them plenty of ventilation.
Last year we did 3 months in it with lots of packing up and setting up.
With regards to time taken to pack up, I find lots of 'conversations' on this (and other) forums. Yes, the Tvan is quick to pack up and set up, but it's all the other stuff that we tend to carry that takes the time.... chairs, tables, tools, BBQ, plates and cutery, water containers, etc, etc, etc,,,,,,......
After 3 months I wasn't 'sick of it', but was getting a little tired of the process and longed for a caravan setup, but glad we didn't have the weight, given where we took the Tvan.
The kids love it and for us the compromises are acceptable.
Cheers,
Mark
Post by: Pebble on March 25, 2017, 11:05:33 AM
The kids already had their own swags so we thought that if the weather was really bad we could just chuck the swags on the floor in the tent of the tvan anyway.
Most of the time we do set up the tent space because we tend to use it for easy access to the bags of clothes, or plastic containers of food.
At pack up we generally don't even bother rolling the kids swags up, fold them in half and throw them on the bed.
Ahhhh now it's come to the point where we are thinking about the next stage of life.....like Topaz or small offroad caravan. So we will probably be selling our TVan soon (2013mkIIICanning).
It's true what others say, still some setting up / packing up to do with both Tvan and Ultimate. But you will always have that with the crossovers unless you go to a more caravan style thing. In particular having to set up an awning outside for shade / shelter. With our TVan we've added an ARB awning to the outside, just for an easier and faster option compared to the sail awning and full awning.
The advantage that the Ultimate has is being able to cook indoors, however most people don't like to anyway (due to canvas etc) which probably leaves you going in and out all the time to get stuff. Arguably you could put a table and camp stove (dual fuel coleman or something) inside the tent of the tvan also, there is enough room in there (if you don't have kids beds set up on the floor of course). I like that idea as a last resort if the weather was really nasty, but haven't had to as yet. Have recently resorted to making some sandwiches for lunch inside though, to get away from flies.
The thing we also like about the tvan is that if we plan to leave early in the morning we might pack up the tent the night before and just put the bra on, that way we don't have to pack the canvas up with the morning dew on it and it makes the getaway that bit faster. Although the thing that takes the most time is boiling the kettle for the cup of tea and the kids having their brekky then dishes etc. lol
Post by: Meggsie on April 19, 2017, 11:25:48 AM
Just working out all the boys we 'have' to take Vs what we 'need' to take.
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Post by: Gandalf the White on April 19, 2017, 11:49:22 AM
I know it shouldn't make any difference, but there also appears to be a distinct difference in disposition of the two groups. Just can't quite put my finger on it tho🤔
Post by: Meggsie on April 19, 2017, 04:05:27 PM
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Post by: wakychapmans on April 20, 2017, 04:52:38 PM
... The Tvan seemed to be an engineering masterpiece but the bed space a bit too claustrophobic for our liking...
worth noting that the new Firetrail has added a new 100mm taller roof pod.
Post by: Cruiser 105Tvan on April 20, 2017, 05:08:17 PM
worth noting that the new Firetrail has added a new 100mm taller roof pod.
The new roof is about to hit the options list for all models of Tvan apparently.
Will then also include the uprated Solar Panel of 120W.
Post by: envee on April 20, 2017, 08:04:10 PM
The Tvan seemed to be an engineering masterpiece but the bed space a bit too claustrophobic for our liking.
We found the same and was one of the reasons we went with the Pioneer Mitchell.
Post by: oldmate on April 20, 2017, 09:07:58 PM
The Tvan seemed to be an engineering masterpiece but the bed space a bit too claustrophobic for our liking.
that is one of the reasons we went with an Ultimate. and the much, much lower downball weight :cheers:
Post by: Meggsie on April 20, 2017, 09:35:31 PM
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