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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Joff on October 31, 2016, 08:36:15 AM

Title: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Joff on October 31, 2016, 08:36:15 AM
It was a term the car marketeers would use when a new model came out. Yeah, it was a bit unsophisticated compared to today's hyperbole but as a driver in the 80's and 90's you could see vehicles start to get more responsive. The big leap of course was fuel injection. we went from pretty agricultural carby set-ups in standard cars, or worse, NA diesels (nuf said) to fairly crude ECU and electronically controlled gizmos that really did make the response time from right foot to road shorten up remarkably.

I remember spending countless hours night after night trying to master the art of Webers to make my old Lancer respond and make power. Not more than a few years later you could go buy a new fuel injected Corolla off the shelf that made just as much power and responded when you put you foot down even quicker that my months salary Webers.

Why do I remind the plus 40's of these days?? To ask the simple but perplexing question, WTF happened???

For the last couple years I have seen this response time go south at an alarming rate. I know it's all to do with emissions control and all that crap but seriously??

Why today, well this friggin Ranger of mine must have the slowest response of any car I have driven - ever.... and today it has just pissed me off enough to have a rant.  >:D

And I know I can spend hundreds of dollars on gizmos to fix it but it's a company car and I really have better things to do with my coin  >:(
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: GeoffA on October 31, 2016, 09:02:01 AM
Too many gizmos now between foot and fuel....and everything else....
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: noel_w on October 31, 2016, 09:30:30 AM
Aaahhh
I can still hear the induction roar on my Datto L18 motor with twin 45DCOE Webers. One throat per cylinder. Like you I spent most Saturday mornings making sure they were all true.
My ZD30 when I got it was similar, put the foot down and wait till the next suburb for it to get going.
New Beaudesert exhaust, Tillix and Needle mod and she goes like a rocket now (well a hugely overloaded and underpowered rocket)  :laugh: :laugh:  Just those mods alone made it so much more responsive and driveable. Can't wait to get the intercooler upgraded and ECU tuned.
But the question remains that the mods I have done have not modified the emission controls and have given it much more oomph. Why couldn't they do this in the factory.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: edz on October 31, 2016, 09:41:43 AM
You can have your EFI electro crap .. All good while its working then PPFFTTTTTT goes a sensor or a wire corrodes a little bit and gives an incorrect OHM's reading or something and the whole lot becomes an expensive  statue parked on the landscape somewhere waiting for a pimply faced tech guru to empty your wallet to fix it . ;D
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: tk421 on October 31, 2016, 09:58:27 AM
Is it the move from the old mechanical throttle cable to fly-by-wire throttles, ecu's and stability control?

Driver's pressed the pedal>go and check the sensors> is there enough fuel? Is there enough air? Temps ok? Are the wheels going to spin? Yes? Ok dial it back a little just in case.  etc
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Joff on October 31, 2016, 10:10:07 AM
You can have your EFI electro crap .. All good while its working then PPFFTTTTTT goes a sensor or a wire corrodes a little bit and gives an incorrect OHM's reading or something and the whole lot becomes an expensive  statue parked on the landscape somewhere waiting for a pimply faced tech guru to empty your wallet to fix it . ;D

One thing is for sure, on the whole and if you exclude the duds like, well anything from Land Rover, cars are far more reliable today than they were pre EFI, ECU, electrikery despite what some would make-believe 
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Joff on October 31, 2016, 10:12:39 AM
Is it the move from the old mechanical throttle cable to fly-by-wire throttles, ecu's and stability control?

Driver's pressed the pedal>go and check the sensors> is there enough fuel? Is there enough air? Temps ok? Are the wheels going to spin? Yes? Ok dial it back a little just in case.  etc

I don't think it's fly by wire that slows things down. My FTE in the 105 is fly by wire and it is infinitely quicker than my Ranger.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: rags on October 31, 2016, 10:35:17 AM
It is also interesting the cycle cars are heading back in the 70s a corolla was powered by a mighty 1100cc before getting and upgrade of 1300cc, today they have a motor of around 1800cc. Back in 1980 I had a 76 Corolla van as my first car and it started my wasting of money on cars. To gain more power I transplanted a celiica 1600 twin cam 2T-G motor and 5 speed box along with many other mods was a great car.
Moving to 2016 and it now appears the car makers are going back to small engines and relying on turbos etc . A new Suzuki Baleno is now powered by a 1000cc turbo motor similar to other makes.
The benefits of the new cars and 4wds out way the disadvantages, gone are the days of a vehicle stalling as you go up a steep hill due to the carby starving for fuel.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: SEADOO on October 31, 2016, 10:38:58 AM
Remeber when ECU's and fuel injection became standard?

All the older blokes saying "never trust that" and so on......

How many now would replace the fuel injection for an old Rochester 4 barrel or an old Holley.......


Nah, fk that. I like my fuel injection.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: SEADOO on October 31, 2016, 10:43:29 AM
It is also interesting the cycle cars are heading back in the 70s a corolla was powered by a mighty 1100cc before getting and upgrade of 1300cc, today they have a motor of around 1800cc. Back in 1980 I had a 76 Corolla van as my first car and it started my wasting of money on cars. To gain more power I transplanted a celiica 1600 twin cam 2T-G motor and 5 speed box along with many other mods was a great car.
Moving to 2016 and it now appears the car makers are going back to small engines and relying on turbos etc . A new Suzuki Baleno is now powered by a 1000cc turbo motor similar to other makes.
The benefits of the new cars and 4wds out way the disadvantages, gone are the days of a vehicle stalling as you go up a steep hill due to the carby starving for fuel.

Very true.

We were looking at upgrading the wife's Getz to a demo Nissan Pulsar SSS last year.

Took it for a bit of a drive, it felt like a wet blanket had been shoved up the exhaust.

The 1991 Nissan Pulsar N/A 2.0 SSS had more balls, my 97 WRX wagon had much bigger balls.

Upon our return, we discovered it's only a 1.4 with a small turbo. It's meant to drive like a 2.0 litre.

They are compensating cubes with little turbo's these days.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: edz on October 31, 2016, 10:48:30 AM
"  gone are the days of a vehicle stalling as you go up a steep hill due to the carby starving for fuel. "
A little mod of the carby to remove the float / needle and seat  fixed that problem for me, back in the day .  ;D
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: rotare on October 31, 2016, 11:22:59 AM
..... and on hot days you'd get fuel vaporisation and the car would stall at the lights and not start.  Then on cold mornings the thing wouldn't start without some choke and some pumping of the pedal, followed with coughing and popping through the carby..... but too much choke for too long and the plugs would foul.

Then there's the setting of the points, cleaning up of the contacts in the dizzy cap, then checking the timing with a timing light.

Ahhh, the good old days - not so good now I think about it  ;D 
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on October 31, 2016, 11:27:15 AM
"  gone are the days of a vehicle stalling as you go up a steep hill due to the carby starving for fuel. "
A little mod of the carby to remove the float / needle and seat  fixed that problem for me, back in the day .  ;D

I had a 750 DP on the Hilux for a while and it was tops  :cup: Throttle response was great, no lag, no surging just smooth transition through the different stages of the carb. Fuel consumption was massive ;D Was a great thing to drive.

Until a corrugated road  :-[
Every 5 minutes it'd flood and stall.
Fitted an Edelbrock 650 vac sec, lost a lot of fun  :'( but at least it'll drive down a dirt road now.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on October 31, 2016, 11:29:58 AM

Then there's the setting of the points, cleaning up of the contacts in the dizzy cap, then checking the timing with a timing light.

Ahhh, the good old days - not so good now I think about it  ;D

Bac when mechanics were mechanics ;D
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Spada on October 31, 2016, 11:42:09 AM
Bac when mechanics were mechanics ;D

and you could sit on the inside of the front guard while you did all that
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: MDS69 on October 31, 2016, 11:45:50 AM
Remember when you could get different motors in the same model car and I am not talking about petrol and diesel but the Commodore in the early '80's had a L4, L6 and two version of the V8. Generally they were linked to base model up to the luxury model but these days there is usually only one engine size on offer.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Humphreythebear on October 31, 2016, 06:22:48 PM
Modern cars a fat , lazy barstools .....
I have an old valiant , 225 slanty goes really well - but it only weighs 1200kg , i have a HDT , goes like stink weighs 1280kg .

Land Rover ( contrary to the one eyed jealous  dribble posted earlier ! ) is a dead set weapon , the fastest Fat Girl - 2.5t super quiet , super comfy goes anywhere gentlemans club lounge on wheels !!!

Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: rags on October 31, 2016, 06:31:24 PM
These super responsive cars probably featured RTS otherwise known as Radial Tuned Suspension
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on October 31, 2016, 06:40:27 PM
I have an old valiant , 225 slanty goes really well - ..................., i have a HDT , goes like stink..........


 :worthles:
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Mallory Black on October 31, 2016, 06:54:43 PM
 Super Responsive was a name given to a family of engines that Toyota brought out in the mid-eighties.
New materials, lightweight internals (makes them ... responsive)
Some had injection and some had carbys depending on the model
I was working on them at the time and found them better than the ones before especially that dog of a Holden pushrod 4 cyl in the early 80's Coronas
Remember that stupid Button Plan, what a joke
The one I liked best was the Corona with 2.4l multipoint EFI, Supra 5 speed and IRS
For a Corona it was pretty darn good and very tough mechanically
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: rags on October 31, 2016, 07:21:55 PM
[quote author=Mallory Black link=topic=50196.msg864382#msg864382 date=1477904083
I was working on them at the time and found them better than the ones before especially that dog of a Holden pushrod 4 cyl in the early 80's Coronas
Remember that stupid Button Plan, what a joke

[/quote]

A Starfire 4 otherwise known as a Backfire 4
Remember the corona well as the old man bought mum one as it was a Toyota with a Holden motor so he could relent on his allegiance to Holden
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: GeoffA on October 31, 2016, 07:24:14 PM
A Starfire 4 otherwise known as a Backfire 4

....aka Missfire 4
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: MDS69 on October 31, 2016, 07:27:44 PM
Modern cars a fat , lazy barstools .....
I have an old valiant , 225 slanty goes really well - but it only weighs 1200kg , i have a HDT , goes like stink weighs 1280kg .

Land Rover ( contrary to the one eyed jealous  dribble posted earlier ! ) is a dead set weapon , the fastest Fat Girl - 2.5t super quiet , super comfy goes anywhere gentlemans club lounge on wheels !!!

Pics of the HDT :cheers:
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Humphreythebear on October 31, 2016, 07:32:19 PM
I was trying - file is too big ........
It's red , with flares and stripes , smells like 1980 .
Vallo is poo brown with a vynil roof , smells like a valiant or 1969 depending on how old you are
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: kylarama on October 31, 2016, 08:21:31 PM
80's EFI....  Forgot how bad that junk was.

I recently picked up an 87 XF Fairmont Ghia in reasonable nick to play around with. Plan is (if I choose to keep it) for an injected Windsor or a Turbo Barra. Currently I'm trying to get the EFI crossflow running smoothly, or more to the point idle. Can anyone say vacuum leak!  Probably doesn't help that the rocker cover, sump, rear main, oil cap and dipstick all leak...


Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on October 31, 2016, 08:55:31 PM

Vallo is poo brown with a vynil roof , smells like a valiant or 1969 depending on how old you are

 :worthles:
80's EFI....  Forgot how bad that junk was.

Currently I'm trying to get the EFI crossflow running smoothly, or more to the point idle. Can anyone say vacuum leak



Turbo Barra ;D

F### originality, vac leaks, horrendous fuel consumption!

HELLO REAL WORLD!

Turbo Barra ;D

And 10" rears ;D
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: GeoffA on October 31, 2016, 09:47:03 PM
80's EFI....  Forgot how bad that junk was.

I recently picked up an 87 XF Fairmont Ghia in reasonable nick to play around with. Plan is (if I choose to keep it) for an injected Windsor or a Turbo Barra. Currently I'm trying to get the EFI crossflow running smoothly, or more to the point idle. Can anyone say vacuum leak!  Probably doesn't help that the rocker cover, sump, rear main, oil cap and dipstick all leak...

Have you checked the air flow meter? Had one in the early 90's. It was fiddly to start, and idled like it had a vac leak.
Took it to the local dealer 3 times but no joy. A smaller local mechanic found the issue within 15 minutes.
Electronics in the AFM had given up.

Turbo Barra =  ;D
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: kylarama on November 01, 2016, 06:26:02 AM


Have you checked the air flow meter? Had one in the early 90's. It was fiddly to start, and idled like it had a vac leak.
Took it to the local dealer 3 times but no joy. A smaller local mechanic found the issue within 15 minutes.
Electronics in the AFM had given up.

Turbo Barra =  ;D

It's on the list, doing process of elimination. So far I've sorted the obvious vac leaks abd pulled apart and cleaned the idle control valve. I'd rather not tip any money on this motor though.






Turbo Barra ;D

F### originality, vac leaks, horrendous fuel consumption!

HELLO REAL WORLD!

Turbo Barra ;D

And 10" rears ;D

Bloody wreckers want decent coin for them.  Complete 200,000km motor and box with all ancillaries, loom and ecu will set you back $3,500 to $4,500 for BA-BF unit.  Lot of coin to spend on an XF...
On the other hand a N/A FG motor and box conversion can be had for around $1,000.  195kw would still go okay.
Need to check out auctions for a complete write off.

Or, I can get a complete 220,000km 96 NF V8 Fairlane for $800.  Now a N/A Barra would flog it, but it'd have the note.


10" rears.... 12 slotters with TA Radials.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Joff on November 01, 2016, 07:19:54 AM

Land Rover ( contrary to the one eyed jealous  dribble posted earlier ! ) is a dead set weapon , the fastest Fat Girl - 2.5t super quiet , super comfy goes anywhere gentlemans club lounge on wheels !!!

Sensitive much  :cheers: :cheers: See you on the tilt tray  :-*
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: GeoffA on November 01, 2016, 07:21:49 AM
It's on the list, doing process of elimination. So far I've sorted the obvious vac leaks abd pulled apart and cleaned the idle control valve. I'd rather not tip any money on this motor though.
If it was ever on gas, the AFM has probably had the arse blown out of it.
[/quote]
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on November 01, 2016, 08:21:45 AM



10" rears.... 12 slotters with TA Radials.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Just removed a set yesterday, I'll put 'em aside for you ;D

Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: kylarama on November 01, 2016, 09:08:53 AM
If it was ever on gas, the AFM has probably had the arse blown out of it.

Thankfully this old girl escaped the taxi gas conversion.  Air box is still in one piece.

I've got a fatory Egas BA wagon (ex Telstra not taxi) and I noticed Ford fit spring loaded mounts on the airbox to minimize backfire damage.

Just removed a set yesterday, I'll put 'em aside for you ;D

Cheers!

Everydays a wet day with TA's....

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: MDS69 on November 01, 2016, 12:41:49 PM
I was trying - file is too big ........
It's red , with flares and stripes , smells like 1980 .

Don't give up, keep trying. It might be the same as mine.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Bird on November 01, 2016, 01:56:25 PM
If I cared about going fast, and super responsive again, I'd buy another bike..
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Humphreythebear on November 01, 2016, 03:44:57 PM
Don't give up, keep trying. It might be the same as mine.


Here try this , i submitted it around 2009 to the NY Times !

http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/View_Listing.asp?ListingID=COL611151 (http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/View_Listing.asp?ListingID=COL611151)

Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Humphreythebear on November 01, 2016, 03:48:00 PM
If I cared about going fast, and super responsive again, I'd buy another bike..

Except new ones are scary fast and im old n soft - plus  there are too many halfwits on the road with no idea of 'awareness '
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: MDS69 on November 01, 2016, 08:20:32 PM
Here try this , i submitted it around 2009 to the NY Times !

http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/View_Listing.asp?ListingID=COL611151 (http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/View_Listing.asp?ListingID=COL611151)


How long have owned that. I use to know the owner of it. The car featured in Underbelly the Golden Mile.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Humphreythebear on November 01, 2016, 08:48:52 PM
I've owned it approx 13 -14 yrs or so , was involved in the HDT club and yes it was in underbelly . What's your true identity !
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Joff on November 01, 2016, 08:56:51 PM
Here try this , i submitted it around 2009 to the NY Times !

http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/View_Listing.asp?ListingID=COL611151 (http://collectiblecars.nytimes.com/View_Listing.asp?ListingID=COL611151)


Nice old car en all but wouldnt it be more correct to say that this car was the point at which the Holden Dealer Team started selling cars rather than

 This Car started what would become an icon in Australia, The Holden Dealer Team

Coz i think the late great Harry Firth might have a bit of an objection to that statement as would any monaro or torana nut.

Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on November 01, 2016, 09:08:57 PM
Nice old car en all but wouldnt it be more correct to say that this car was the point at which the Holden Dealer Team started selling cars rather than

 This Car started what would become an icon in Australia, The Holden Dealer Team

Coz i think the late great Harry Firth might have a bit of an objection to that statement as would any monaro or torana nut.

Model/ ???

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_48-215

Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Joff on November 01, 2016, 09:44:15 PM
Model/ ???

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_48-215

That's the first holden but the Holden Dealer Team started selling cars in 1980 when Brock bought it. What became HDT Special Vehicles started with that commodore but the Holden Dealer Team had been around since 1969.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: edz on November 01, 2016, 10:01:21 PM



Bloody wreckers want decent coin for them.  Complete 200,000km motor and box with all ancillaries, loom and ecu will set you back $3,500 to $4,500 for BA-BF unit.  Lot of coin to spend on an XF...
On the other hand a N/A FG motor and box conversion can be had for around $1,000.  195kw would still go okay.
Need to check out auctions for a complete write off.

Or, I can get a complete 220,000km 96 NF V8 Fairlane for $800.  Now a N/A Barra would flog it, but it'd have the note.


10" rears.... 12 slotters with TA Radials.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk
Rebuild the Fairlane donk to a performance  full gas [ LPG ] only set up..  ;D
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Footy Shorts Shane on November 01, 2016, 10:07:19 PM
:
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Bird on November 02, 2016, 07:49:28 AM
Quote from: Joff
That's the first holden but the Holden Dealer Team started selling cars in 1980

look at the ad in NYT.. says its a 48/215.
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Joff on November 02, 2016, 09:17:29 AM
look at the ad in NYT.. says its a 48/215.

Right. Missed that. my bad.. sorry FSS  :-[
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: MDS69 on November 02, 2016, 11:23:06 AM
I've owned it approx 13 -14 yrs or so , was involved in the HDT club and yes it was in underbelly . What's your true identity !

Did you own the car when it was in Underbelly. Are you DM
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Joff on November 02, 2016, 11:39:46 AM
Did you own the car when it was in Underbelly. Are you DM

Considering that Underbelly was only a few years ago and he said he'd owned it for over a decade I reckon you can take it as read that he's DM  :laugh:

Elementary my dear MDS69 (if that is in fact your real name)

Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: MDS69 on November 02, 2016, 03:25:20 PM
Considering that Underbelly was only a few years ago and he said he'd owned it for over a decade I reckon you can take it as read that he's DM  :laugh:

Elementary my dear MDS69 (if that is in fact your real name)

 :-X
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: Humphreythebear on November 02, 2016, 04:13:34 PM
Did you own the car when it was in Underbelly. Are you DM

Yes to both !
 :D
Title: Re: Does anyone remember 'Super Responsive'
Post by: MDS69 on November 02, 2016, 09:38:40 PM
Yes to both !
 :D

I was having dinner tonight with some of the boys that we both know from the owners club days and asked if you moved to Mexico and Phil confirmed it.