MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: wakychapmans on October 19, 2016, 11:26:11 AM
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ummm ok...
https://www.campertraileraustralia.com.au/news-events/news/1610/mdc-buys-out-aussie-made-camel-campers (https://www.campertraileraustralia.com.au/news-events/news/1610/mdc-buys-out-aussie-made-camel-campers)
"Camel Campers will stay Aussie-made under the MDC banner after being bought out by the RV importer.
Buyers will soon be able opt for a locally-made Camel-branded camper at any MDC showroom Australia-wide, following MDC Camper Trailers and Offroad Caravans' (MDC) purchase of the proud Aussie brand.
Camel Campers, which has operated since 1999, went into receivership earlier this year and was subsequently bought out by RV importer MDC.
MDC managing director Vaughan Hindley said the investment by MDC will create a "one-stop-shop" where enthusiasts can choose a camper that "resonates with them," emphasising that all Camel-branded camper trailers sold alongside MDC offerings will remain wholly Australian made.
"We have invested heavily in the people and the machinery that has made this brand iconic over its 19 years of operation," Hindley explained.
Both companies will operate from MDC’s manufacturing facility about 11km south of Brisbane city in Coopers Plains.
"Our goal through the size of our already-established distribution network is to increase the Camel Campers brand market share and take it to the next level in conjunction with our MDC offering," Hindley said.
MDC will manufacture, distribute and promote of Camel Campers while also retaining a number of staff from the original business. Both brands will be distributed through MDC’s network of showrooms in states across Australia, including Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne."
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so send em all broke, then buy em out???
(http://home.bt.com/images/dont-miss-the-last-post-136394540798003901-141121105647.jpg)
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wonder if they'll cover warranties from the previous owners...
Depending on the terms of the sale, they may be obligated to... or it may have been equipment, IP and branding only. In Which case... no.
But it would do a lot for PR and the credibility of the "new" Camel Campers, if they covered previous warranties.
Guess we'll find out.
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so send em all broke, then buy em out???
sounds like Capitalism
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"Our goal through the size of our already-established distribution network is to increase the Camel Campers brand market share and take it to the next level in conjunction with our MDC offering," Hindley said.
MDC will manufacture, distribute and promote of Camel Campers while also retaining a number of staff from the original business. Both brands will be distributed through MDC’s network of showrooms in states across Australia, including Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne."
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I doubt this. Once they realize the true cost of Manufacturing in Australia, the Camel brand will be dumped.....
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I doubt this. Once they realize the true cost of Manufacturing in Australia, the Camel brand will be dumped.....
na just use imported trailers with the proven name....
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Or, if they're smart, they will keep it as a premium brand and keep it made in Australia... however, when we saw the Camel's at Maitland they were the only ones that impressed us for the $10k-ish mark, and that is definitely in MDC's territory.
Look at someone like Tata or Geely - yes, they make cheap stuff in India and China respectively, but they bought Jaguar Land Rover (T) and Volvo (G) from Ford and have kept manufacturing where they were always made.... and in both cases they've gone leaps and bounds forwards from where they were with Ford. What it's given T and G is a lot of sound engineering knowledge, quality control processes and systems and an instant premium brand. There was a worry from the press when those takeovers happened that the brands were going to be cheapened, but instead they've each had some of their best years and in JLR's case have had to expand manufacturing capacity. I know that the motor industry isn't quite the same, but there are parallels in terms of brand perception.
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"Our goal through the size of our already-established distribution network is to increase the Camel Campers brand market share and take it to the next level in conjunction with our MDC offering," Hindley said.
MDC will manufacture, distribute and promote of Camel Campers while also retaining a number of staff from the original business. Both brands will be distributed through MDC’s network of showrooms in states across Australia, including Brisbane, Sydney and Melbourne."
I doubt this. Once they realize the true cost of Manufacturing in Australia, the Camel brand will be dumped.....
The cost of manufacturing in Australia is not as high as you think. The issue here with camper trailers is that most have grown out of backyard businesses and are not set up efficiently.
If you make the distinction between someone who builds something the way I would build a camper in my shed and the efficient manufacture of just about anything most of the Australian camper 'manufacturers' are little more than camper 'builders'. Patriot have shown what is possible when you have the mindset of a true manufacturer. If MDC management plan to redevelop the Camel brand based on efficient manufacturing methods (which I'd put money on it that they are coz they are clearly not dummies) then I see no reason why they cant do exactly what they say they are planning to do.
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I doubt this. Once they realize the true cost of Manufacturing in Australia, the Camel brand will be dumped.....
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Yep or corners will be cut and loose its "wholly Australian Made" / more Australian Assembled now, Telling sign will be if it will ever gets its spot back on the Australian Manufactured Camper Trailer Guild,
Was talking to a supplier at the last Camping Show here on the Coast, said that their Trailers where shipped over in a container and Draw bars were welded on here which qualified them for Australian made , WTF tasted my Daggy Dog twice on its way up.
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The cost of manufacturing in Australia is not as high as you think. The issue here with camper trailers is that most have grown out of backyard businesses and are not set up efficiently.
If you make the distinction between someone who builds something the way I would build a camper in my shed and the efficient manufacture of just about anything most of the Australian camper 'manufacturers' are little more than camper 'builders'. Patriot have shown what is possible when you have the mindset of a true manufacturer. If MDC management plan to redevelop the Camel brand based on efficient manufacturing methods (which I'd put money on it that they are coz they are clearly not dummies) then I see no reason why they cant do exactly what they say they are planning to do.
I'd like you tell that to the Workers of Holden, Ford, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Bonds and 100,000's of others whose lively hood has been impacted by Imported products once Manufactured in Australia !
I happen to be employed by a Family Owned, Australian Manufacturing Company and we are currently under threat from imports, particularly from India, due to large Multi Nationals wanting more and more margin (profits) from you, the General Public.
Next time you change the oil or grease the tug, why not ask where the grease is made or if the engine oil is imported....
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na just use imported trailers with the proven name....
yeah, which bollocks the true Australian made Camel !
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I'd like you tell that to the Workers of Holden, Ford, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Bonds and 100,000's of others whose lively hood has been impacted by Imported products once Manufactured in Australia !
I happen to be employed by a Family Owned, Australian Manufacturing Company and we are currently under threat from imports, particularly from India, due to large Multi Nationals wanting more and more margin (profits) from you, the General Public.
Next time you change the oil or grease the tug, why not ask where the grease is made or if the engine oil is imported....
Same as Caltex refinery at Kurnell where I worked for a while.... cheaper to make overseas and ship it here than make it here... WTF?
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I doubt this. Once they realize the true cost of Manufacturing in Australia, the Camel brand will be dumped.....
Yep or corners will be cut and loose its "wholly Australian Made" / more Australian Assembled now, Telling sign will be if it will ever gets its spot back on the Australian Manufactured Camper Trailer Guild,
Was talking to a supplier at the last Camping Show here on the Coast, said that their Trailers where shipped over in a container and Draw bars were welded on here which qualified them for Australian made , WTF tasted my Daggy Dog twice on its way up.
That's crap. If that is what they are doing then they are open to being charged with a breach of law.
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Same as Caltex refinery at Kurnell where I worked for a while.... cheaper to make overseas and ship it here than make it here... WTF?
Yep, these guys are a Marketing Company. What do you do when your Competitors start getting stronger ? Don't sell on quality, just reduce the price !
Does my head in
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Yep, these guys are a Marketing Company. What do you do when your Competitors start getting stronger ? Don't sell on quality, just reduce the price !
Does my head in
The fact they didn't spend anything on the place for decades should have raised alarm bells. Few mates got massive handshakes... even Bob whose job was to twice a day 7am and 2.30pm) drive around and check the dunny rolls and light globes and go jetski riding most of the day between 'checks'... Not bad for $700/wk in 1995...
That place used to employ 100's... I remember 4pm shift change, if you wanted to cross the road, you have bollox chance and had to wait for someone to either let you cross, or wait for someone to miss a gear.
Funny, the Caltex service station on the actual road out of the refinery was more expensive than the servos 10klms away...
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I'd like you tell that to the Workers of Holden, Ford, Mitsubishi, Toyota, Bonds and 100,000's of others whose lively hood has been impacted by Imported products once Manufactured in Australia !
I happen to be employed by a Family Owned, Australian Manufacturing Company and we are currently under threat from imports, particularly from India, due to large Multi Nationals wanting more and more margin (profits) from you, the General Public.
Next time you change the oil or grease the tug, why not ask where the grease is made or if the engine oil is imported....
See, you are confusing cost of manufacture with the economies of manufacturing. If your domestic market is relatively small and you have little in the way of export options for a product that requires huge and costly infrastructure to produce then you can't realise the economies of scale required. I too work for family owned Australian manufacturer of 68 years standing. Over the last few decades many of our core products have become un-economical to manufacture here so we have looked at alternative products and alternative markets where the economics of available market size, infrastructure, available technologies and so on make it a viable business.
I reckon camper trailers are in that sweet spot where if they are built efficiently then there is a big enough domestic market clearly willing to pay big bucks to acquire them.
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Was talking to a supplier at the last Camping Show here on the Coast, said that their Trailers where shipped over in a container and Draw bars were welded on here which qualified them for Australian made , WTF tasted my Daggy Dog twice on its way up.
I have always thought this was the big issue with the whole Aussie vs imported argument. On one end of the scale you could have a fully Australian made camper with Australian made steel, canvas, components, batteries, cabling, switches, pumps etc etc. On the other hand, you could have a fully imported ready to go camper where everything is done overseas and is ready to go out of the container, In the middle, is where probably just about all campers exist. There is no real line in the sand it's more about a case of degrees and it is therefore, better to base decisions on quality, service, reputation and user reviews than a simple Aussie vs imported argument.
The cost of manufacturing in Australia is not as high as you think. The issue here with camper trailers is that most have grown out of backyard businesses and are not set up efficiently.
If you make the distinction between someone who builds something the way I would build a camper in my shed and the efficient manufacture of just about anything most of the Australian camper 'manufacturers' are little more than camper 'builders'. Patriot have shown what is possible when you have the mindset of a true manufacturer. If MDC management plan to redevelop the Camel brand based on efficient manufacturing methods (which I'd put money on it that they are coz they are clearly not dummies) then I see no reason why they cant do exactly what they say they are planning to do.
Couldn't agree with this more, In the same way they brought competition to the wider market in general, I think they plan on bringing it now to the Australian made sector. I think it is a smart move for them to purchase a premium Australian brand.
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I still wouldn't buy one based on the past customer service skills and the attitude of the MD.
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I have always thought this was the big issue with the whole Aussie vs imported argument. On one end of the scale you could have a fully Australian made camper with Australian made steel, canvas, components, batteries, cabling, switches, pumps etc etc. On the other hand, you could have a fully imported ready to go camper where everything is done overseas and is ready to go out of the container, In the middle, is where probably just about all campers exist. There is no real line in the sand it's more about a case of degrees and it is therefore, better to base decisions on quality, service, reputation and user reviews than a simple Aussie vs imported argument.
The nominal rule is 50% plus Aust cost incurred content and you can call it Aussie made. Best example of this is the Commodore. 50.5% of it's cost at point wholesale was Aust incurred cost. There is always some financial gymnastics with these things though and usually against the spirit of the Act.
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See, you are confusing cost of manufacture with the economies of manufacturing. If your domestic market is relatively small and you have little in the way of export options for a product that requires huge and costly infrastructure to produce then you can't realise the economies of scale required. I too work for family owned Australian manufacturer of 68 years standing. Over the last few decades many of our core products have become un-economical to manufacture here so we have looked at alternative products and alternative markets where the economics of available market size, infrastructure, available technologies and so on make it a viable business.
I reckon camper trailers are in that sweet spot where if they are built efficiently then there is a big enough domestic market clearly willing to pay big bucks to acquire them.
Mate, we export to - China, South Korea, NZ, Thailand, UAE, South Africa, so our market isn't small. So you ask why do we make products that those countries we are selling to don't ? Because it's to hard for them to. So they make the easy products that gives them the profits they want.
Last year we made 990,000kgs of grease.
However, we can make any lubricant product (aside from Food Grade) they need and have it delivered to them in less than 3 weeks. 100tne of grease to the Bowen Basin ? No problem. You want 250tne delivered to the West ? Easy. You need oil for your Sugar plant in South Africa ? No worries. We can make and ship in less than 4 weeks.
But, you only want to pay $2.50 p/kg for something that cost us $2.75 p/kg to make ? That's where the problem lies.
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But, you only want to pay $2.50 p/kg for something that cost us $2.75 p/kg to make ? That's where the problem lies.
I’m not disputing what your saying, but my gripe is the calculation method of what something costs to make is Australia.
The bean counters at all large companies can make up a figure and no one knows if it’s correct or not. (Small companies are different)
If they simply want to stop making something, then they suddenly come out with a figure which says it’s too expensive here in Australia and that’s enough justification to move it overseas.
Calculating the cost to manufacture something is no different to banks justifying high interest rates on credit cards. With enough jargon you can justify anything.
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Mate, we export to - China, South Korea, NZ, Thailand, UAE, South Africa, so our market isn't small. So you ask why do we make products that those countries we are selling to don't ? Because it's to hard for them to. So they make the easy products that gives them the profits they want.
Last year we made 990,000kgs of grease.
However, we can make any lubricant product (aside from Food Grade) they need and have it delivered to them in less than 3 weeks. 100tne of grease to the Bowen Basin ? No problem. You want 250tne delivered to the West ? Easy. You need oil for your Sugar plant in South Africa ? No worries. We can make and ship in less than 4 weeks.
But, you only want to pay $2.50 p/kg for something that cost us $2.75 p/kg to make ? That's where the problem lies.
If someone is selling it to them at $2.50 why would they pay $2.75? Clearly the others have either more efficient systems, better buying power with their base product suppliers (probably because they buy 100 times more than you do) or are simply willing to cop a loss for some reason. And yes, their cost of manufacture may well be lower.
At the end of the day I still don't know why we all get up in arms about the idea that we are losing manufacturing in Australia. If it's not because of efficiency and it is plain cost then that plain cost is because you and I want a 38 hour week, 4 weeks off a year, long service leave, $30 per hour and a 100% safe place to work not to mention clean streets, relatively free and fair legal system and free medical. If the other guy is willing to take less then he will be cheaper. If the punter can't see a value in the more expensive item (and that's not even remotely implicit in being 'Australian Made') then he buys the cheaper item.
Some things are not economical to make here in Australia anymore. that's the reality so, if a manufacturing company wants to survive they will need to find something that is and do it as efficiently as they can.
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If someone is selling it to them at $2.50 why would they pay $2.75? Clearly the others have either more efficient systems, better buying power with their base product suppliers (probably because they buy 100 times more than you do) or are simply willing to cop a loss for some reason. And yes, their cost of manufacture may well be lower.
At the end of the day I still don't know why we all get up in arms about the idea that we are losing manufacturing in Australia. If it's not because of efficiency and it is plain cost then that plain cost is because you and I want a 38 hour week, 4 weeks off a year, long service leave, $30 per hour and a 100% safe place to work not to mention clean streets, relatively free and fair legal system and free medical. If the other guy is willing to take less then he will be cheaper. If the punter can't see a value in the more expensive item (and that's not even remotely implicit in being 'Australian Made') then he buys the cheaper item.
Some things are not economical to make here in Australia anymore. that's the reality so, if a manufacturing company wants to survive they will need to find something that is and do it as efficiently as they can.
It's not all about manufacturing costs and being economical. Germany has increased its manufacturing exports and is competing well against low cost Asian and Chinese businesses. Germany is a highly regulated, high-wage country with a strong currency but an increasing share of the global market. But they're mostly niche businesses that avoid mass markets. They're rarely the cheapest manufacturer and yet over 1000 German manufacturers hold the number one or two spots in their world markets or number one position in the European market. Its based on superior quality product offerings.
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because you and I want a 38 hour week, 4 weeks off a year, long service leave, $30 per hour and a 100% safe place to work not to mention clean streets, relatively free and fair legal system and free medical. If the other guy is willing to take less then he will be cheaper.
And that there is a big % of the problem. But you forgot, sick days , parental leave , careers leave and double time on sundays and public hold, oh yeah, you all want public hold, and be paid for them!!
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And that there is a big % of the problem. But you forgot, sick days , parental leave , careers leave and double time on sundays and public hold, oh yeah, you all want public hold, and be paid for them!!
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All still achievable with appropriate tariffs. Tariffs were removed by back room sweetheart deals and the result of this trend that started with the Button plan is an entire country who no longer is smart enough to build anything.
Kids choices these days, go to uni, or be a barista.
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And that there is a big % of the problem. But you forgot, sick days , parental leave , careers leave and double time on sundays and public hold, oh yeah, you all want public hold, and be paid for them!!
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Took us 50 yrs to get all those "perks".. And a lot of hard work by unions that everyone loves to hate.... :cup:
China is already dealing with workers who now want more pay and better conditions. Even some companies are leaving China and moving offshore to Bangladesh where the workers and conditions are exactly like they were in China 5 yrs ago..
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Just saying!!
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All still achievable with appropriate tariffs. Tariffs were removed by back room sweetheart deals and the result of this trend that started with the Button plan is an entire country who no longer is smart enough to build anything.
Kids choices these days, go to uni, or be a barista.
The manufacturing that is easily outsourced is usually low skill/smart, that's the majority of what is lost, the harder stuff to manufacture that actually requires being "smart" is the type that is surviving as it's not easily replicated.
There are plenty of choices for kid's these day's but they should ask themselves how easily a job can be offshored before they start a career, people often bemoan the loss of manufacturing jobs but don't seem to acknowledge the immense growth there has been in the services sector which people are now able to afford as they aren't overpaying for goods due to tariff's.
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And that there is a big % of the problem. But you forgot, sick days , parental leave , careers leave and double time on sundays and public hold, oh yeah, you all want public hold, and be paid for them!!
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Anyone taken a look at the annual salaries of CEO's of big companies in Australia lately? It's not the average Joe's wages, holidays and penalty rates that are killing Australian businesses, it's the exorbitant pay packets of the big guys at the top, in the millions (sometimes tens of millions) of dollars a year, plus bonuses.
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Anyone taken a look at the annual salaries of CEO's of big companies in Australia lately? It's not the average Joe's wages, holidays and penalty rates that are killing Australian businesses, it's the exorbitant pay packets of the big guys at the top, in the millions (sometimes tens of millions) of dollars a year, plus bonuses.
what he said..... even if they **** up they still walk away with more than I'll ever see all added up....
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All still achievable with appropriate tariffs. Tariffs were removed by back room sweetheart deals and the result of this trend that started with the Button plan is an entire country who no longer is smart enough to build anything.
Kids choices these days, go to uni, or be a barista.
The Button plan was a joke, the company that I worked for in the 1990s cut the time from. 4 minutes to just over 2 minutes in production for a product effectively making us the 2nd best in the world, we still lost our jobs as we couldn't compete with $3.10c per day labour overseas, just to rub salt into the wound the technology finished up overseas.
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The manufacturing that is easily outsourced is usually low skill/smart, that's the majority of what is lost, the harder stuff to manufacture that actually requires being "smart" is the type that is surviving as it's not easily replicated.
There are plenty of choices for kid's these day's but they should ask themselves how easily a job can be offshored before they start a career, people often bemoan the loss of manufacturing jobs but don't seem to acknowledge the immense growth there has been in the services sector which people are now able to afford as they aren't overpaying for goods due to tariff's.
Services sector? As in being an artisanal barista you mean? ;-)
I disagree. I'm a toolmaker by trade, I saw the rot in the 90's and got out, everything was going to India then. China soon followed. The loss of the auto and whitegoods industries has seen a brain drain of a magnitude never seen before. To say that we have only lost the "not smart" skills is ill informed. Generations of knowledge has disappeared from this country in less than 20 years, it's bloody sad.
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Interesting comments.
Our standard of living and population will always be our downfall. We want everything but dont want to pay premium for it.
Smart businesess are surviving while others dont.
We all buy imported products yet always complain when Australian businesses fail. Lets always blame the imported competition not the poorly run Australian business that failed.
Time to get our head out of the sand but some people just cant see the that and never will.
People bought imported light bars from me yet there were better quality ones from Australian business's, but unfortunatly they were 5 times the price.
So a company who imports buys an Australian business, shock horror, its been happening for years. Its called competition. Not happy about, then dont buy from them.
Mark
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Interesting comments.
Our standard of living and population will always be our downfall. We want everything but dont want to pay premium for it.
Smart businesess are surviving while others dont.
We all buy imported products yet always complain when Australian businesses fail. Lets always blame the imported competition not the poorly run Australian business that failed.
Time to get our head out of the sand but some people just cant see the that and never will.
People bought imported light bars from me yet there were better quality ones from Australian business's, but unfortunatly they were 5 times the price.
So a company who imports buys an Australian business, shock horror, its been happening for years. Its called competition. Not happy about, then dont buy from them.
Mark
Nailed it in one.
They wont pull their head out of the sand, but will squeal like a stuck pig when they are affected.
Cheers Glen
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+2 on the warranty question, have sent MDC a message so we shall see soon.
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Wonder how long it takes before we see Kenno, Glenno, and Roothyo scull drag one somewhere ,they will be straight on the front foot promoting now .
Gees can't wait .zzzzzzzzzzzz
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;D
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Ok MDC have said they will NOT honour previous warranty agreements for Camel Campers. I suppose they have enough warranty work on their Chinese Campers. Mandarin Does Camel is not looking good. >:(
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Kids choices these days, go to uni, or be a barista.
& these days, that's no guarantee of a future highly-paid career either :'(
Saw some figures a little while back that something like 70% of graduates get a job NOT in their field of study, so the $10s of 000s uni expenses they've paid / in debt are totally wasted.
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Ok MDC have said they will NOT honour previous warranty agreements for Camel Campers.
Bugger. How do we find out if they are actually obliged to honour the warranty or not? Sorry to drag the topic off grease exports and petrol refineries.... :-*
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We all buy imported products yet always complain when Australian businesses fail.
bit hard to buy local (I wont say Australian Made) when nearly nothing is made here anymore....
The future for our kids isn't in this country sadly.
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It's not all about manufacturing costs and being economical. Germany has increased its manufacturing exports and is competing well against low cost Asian and Chinese businesses. Germany is a highly regulated, high-wage country with a strong currency but an increasing share of the global market. But they're mostly niche businesses that avoid mass markets. They're rarely the cheapest manufacturer and yet over 1000 German manufacturers hold the number one or two spots in their world markets or number one position in the European market. Its based on superior quality product offerings.
That is exactly the point.
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Services sector? As in being an artisanal barista you mean? ;-)
This article (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/australia-has-reached-the-point-of-no-return-its-time-to-forget-about-making-stuff/news-story/a9be2733741e638f1aff3addaf436242) expands a bit on what the services sector is, and the demise of manufacturing, I think the narrative that it is ALL dead is overblown but I think he is mainly referring to the low-tech aspect of manufacturing. There are high-tech manufacturers like Cochlear Limited, for example, who make the bionic ear and Thales Australia who manufactures amongst other things the Bushmaster troop carrier that are doing well and I think that is where our manufacturing future is.
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Bugger. How do we find out if they are actually obliged to honour the warranty or not? Sorry to drag the topic off grease exports and petrol refineries.... :-*
After previously asking Fair Trading to look into Camel and it's warranty, MDC are not responsible for any previous warranty claim, if they did honour any previous warranty it would be of good faith more than any legal responsibility. So the "Manufacturing Defective Camel" company wins again.
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It's not all about manufacturing costs and being economical. Germany has increased its manufacturing exports and is competing well against low cost Asian and Chinese businesses. Germany is a highly regulated, high-wage country with a strong currency but an increasing share of the global market. But they're mostly niche businesses that avoid mass markets. They're rarely the cheapest manufacturer and yet over 1000 German manufacturers hold the number one or two spots in their world markets or number one position in the European market. Its based on superior quality product offerings.
Germany doesn't have the same strong currency that it did have when it had the Mark - the Euro is kept a bit low by the less well performing economies, and as such Germany gets a bit of an easier ride resulting from it, so from the point of view of exports to the UK, USA, and other non-Euro countries they're doing pretty well on the back of it.
Add in the strength of the STEM education and apprentice schemes, and that goes a long way to building a strong national economy.
And the last one is how many manufacturing companies based there are German owned... Yes, Ford and GMH made things here, but they were American owned....
This article (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/australia-has-reached-the-point-of-no-return-its-time-to-forget-about-making-stuff/news-story/a9be2733741e638f1aff3addaf436242) expands a bit on what the services sector is, and the demise of manufacturing, I think the narrative that it is ALL dead is overblown but I think he is mainly referring to the low-tech aspect of manufacturing. There are high-tech manufacturers like Cochlear Limited, for example, who make the bionic ear and Thales Australia who manufactures amongst other things the Bushmaster troop carrier that are doing well and I think that is where our manufacturing future is.
Have a read of Dutch Disease (http://lexicon.ft.com/term?term=dutch-disease) - the mining and resources boom was probably the worst thing that happened to the Australian economy, especially when you look at how bad the rate has been for the LNG royalties (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/turnbull-government-called-on-to-explain-where-australias-offshore-gas-wealth-is-going-20161009-gryaoi.html)... Dutch Disease (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease) refers to when currencies go up based on exports of natural resources, which makes imports cheaper, and therefore kills off the manufacturing industry...
Now, what were we talking about?
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Germany doesn't have the same strong currency that it did have when it had the Mark - the Euro is kept a bit low by the less well performing economies, and as such Germany gets a bit of an easier ride resulting from it, so from the point of view of exports to the UK, USA, and other non-Euro countries they're doing pretty well on the back of it.
Add in the strength of the STEM education and apprentice schemes, and that goes a long way to building a strong national economy.
The Fraunhofer Society, a network of government-backed research institutes, also helps immensely by providing high-quality, short-term, affordable applied research that small and medium-size firms could not otherwise afford. This enables the small manufacturers to keep ahead of the competition. The government provides 2/3 of its annual budget of about $2.75 billion. So it is an example of government supporting manufacturing industry something that is lacking to an extent here. Its a better use of funds than the subsidies they paid to the car makers to produce poor quality cars, that no one wanted.
The majority of German firms are SME's or Mittelstand - which are usually family owned or have a family like corporate structure, and are generally less than 500 employees, which account for which account for 99% of German firms (revenue below 50 million EUR).
"Most Mittelstand companies are privately held, often under 3rd–5th family generation ownership and control" - https://static1.squarespace.com/static/548ac75ce4b0a10ad41f38e7/t/55edaa22e4b03d3d6e78da4c/1441638946906/MITWMF_Folder_Venohr_Website.pdf
Now, we were talking about camels in the desert weren't we?
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Have a read of Dutch Disease (http://lexicon.ft.com/term?term=dutch-disease) - the mining and resources boom was probably the worst thing that happened to the Australian economy, especially when you look at how bad the rate has been for the LNG royalties (http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/turnbull-government-called-on-to-explain-where-australias-offshore-gas-wealth-is-going-20161009-gryaoi.html)... Dutch Disease (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_disease) refers to when currencies go up based on exports of natural resources, which makes imports cheaper, and therefore kills off the manufacturing industry...
Yes I have, but I think while the mining boom had it's negatives especially for manufacturing the fact that prior to it as a country we were running deficits and in debt and then it allowed us to pay off the debt and put some away so we then rode out the GFC relatively easily, firmly takes it out of "worst thing to happen to the Australian economy" territory. I do however think building an economy based on exporting natural resources in the long term is dangerous and more of the money coming from it should be funnelled into R&D so we can be best equipped for whatever happens next.
Now, what were we talking about?
We seem to have come a long way from camper trailer business acquisitions.
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This article (http://www.news.com.au/finance/economy/australian-economy/australia-has-reached-the-point-of-no-return-its-time-to-forget-about-making-stuff/news-story/a9be2733741e638f1aff3addaf436242) expands a bit on what the services sector is, and the demise of manufacturing, I think the narrative that it is ALL dead is overblown but I think he is mainly referring to the low-tech aspect of manufacturing. There are high-tech manufacturers like Cochlear Limited, for example, who make the bionic ear and Thales Australia who manufactures amongst other things the Bushmaster troop carrier that are doing well and I think that is where our manufacturing future is.
You present a straw man of two small scale niches.
Automotive and white goods employed tens of thousands
Those tens of thousands will now be baristas
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You present a straw man of two small scale niches.
Automotive and white goods employed tens of thousands
Those tens of thousands will now be baristas
Shit. The sky fell down ???
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Shit. The sky fell down ???
Not if you want to be a barista
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Anyone taken a look at the annual salaries of CEO's of big companies in Australia lately? It's not the average Joe's wages, holidays and penalty rates that are killing Australian businesses, it's the exorbitant pay packets of the big guys at the top, in the millions (sometimes tens of millions) of dollars a year, plus bonuses.
Forget for the minute that I am talking about politicians but how is the head of Australia Post worth $4.1M per year verse what the Prime Minister gets, taking a guess here around $450k. It is a joke.
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Every person in this country should be breathing a sigh of relief that automotive manufacturing is kaput in this country. Does anyone have the slightest idea how much corporate welfare has been aimed by successive governments, especially Labor, simply to prop up numbers in the AMWU? It cost taxpayers $50k a year to employ the 2500 workers at Toyota so that they could receive their average 5% wage increases every year. Toyota alone received $500 million in the last four years. That's your taxes people.
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Every person in this country should be breathing a sigh of relief that automotive manufacturing is kaput in this country. Does anyone have the slightest idea how much corporate welfare has been aimed by successive governments, especially Labor, simply to prop up numbers in the AMWU? It cost taxpayers $50k a year to employ the 2500 workers at Toyota so that they could receive their average 5% wage increases every year. Toyota alone received $500 million in the last four years. That's your taxes people.
Yeah you are right....
Can we talk about the subsidies on religion now?
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Yeah you are right....
Can we talk about the subsidies on religion now?
Or subsidised fuel for miners fisherman farmers
Tax concessions to multinational on mining royalties to down
stream process
Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme cost hundreds of millions each year
Corporate subsidies are rife through all sectors
The list goes on and each can give an argument for the benefits of each
The so called subsidised automotive workers actually had a massive down stream effect to all the workers employed by suppliers of car components etc
The loss of income tax and GST paid by all the workers affected in the automotive industry has an ongoing affect on government revenue, both incoming taxes and outgoing welfare payments
One of the biggest issues facing any Australian government is the shrinking revenue base
We are one of the few countries that don't have tariffs in place to protect nation interests from imports artificially price structured to give the exporting country an unfair or false price
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Every person in this country should be breathing a sigh of relief that automotive manufacturing is kaput in this country. Does anyone have the slightest idea how much corporate welfare has been aimed by successive governments, especially Labor, simply to prop up numbers in the AMWU? It cost taxpayers $50k a year to employ the 2500 workers at Toyota so that they could receive their average 5% wage increases every year. Toyota alone received $500 million in the last four years. That's your taxes people.
Worked out how many 100 small companies that supplied parts over the years will now close too... but somehow the unemployment figures wont ever change.... seasonally adjusted? or just lies.
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Or subsidised fuel for miners fisherman farmers
I agree with most of your post but you are wrong about the above,
Primary industry does not get a subsidy on fuel.
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I thought farmers also eligible for business fuel tax credits?
Not debating virtues of it, just saying every sector is subsidised one way or another
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You present a straw man of two small scale niches.
Automotive and white goods employed tens of thousands
Those tens of thousands will now be baristas
How is that a strawman argument? if anything is a strawman argument it's that ten's of thousands of ex-manufacturing employees now have to be baristas.
Are you seriously suggesting we should go back to manufacturing white goods like we did decades ago just so we can employ people and keep an outdated skillset? White goods manufacturing is predominately automated now so we would have to "tariff" automation as well to get back most of those jobs.
Yes, they are just two examples of niche manufacturers because they were meant as examples, not an exhaustive list. As others have pointed out that's where Germany excel's and what accounts for most of it's manufacturing and where the profit margins can afford the kind of kind of wages that we have here in Australia.
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It's too late to go back, the skills are gone. Outdated? Depends on your perspective I guess.
My barista point is being ironic. Most service jobs are transitional, medium term. For the kids that wanted to leave hs to work with their hands and go into a supporting trade, a lot of that opportunity is now gone. For those lesser skilled kids that fit into production type roles, those jobs are gone.
This service industry you speak of isn't for everyone.
Not everyone can go to uni, nor should they, yet we seem to hold it in high regard now as the deafault path. Result is kids with no idea what to do and a huge hecs debt.
Yep I disagree with you holding up two small time examples of "smart" manufacturers. There is no dumb manufacturing, it all requires engineering, trades, and skills. We had that, and it was left to rot after removal of tariffs
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Anybody remember what the topic of this thread was?
KB
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I think it was about camping? Or campers, or tents??? Maybe.
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Well.... I say good luck to MDC. I hope they become the as succesful as Jayco. There will always be a place for small niche custom manufacturers
Many years ago Hyundai and Daewoo were cheap Shitty vehicles. One adapted rapidly and is now well respected and regularly has no. 1 selling passenger car to private buyers. The other disappeared and nearly sank GM.
I hope MDC become a powerhouse with a national dealer network employing heaps of aussies. If they can bring the enjoyment of getting out and enjoying/appreciating our wide brown land to more folks, then maybe we will stop taking this great country for granted. More poeple do it and spend their money at home in regional areas the better for all of us.
Sure the MDC quality was questionable early on, but I don't think that is still as true. Some of their customer service was a bit average at the start too I've read.
We can lement the loss of Blundstone, Burlei Bras et al and Vegemite, Tim Tams and Bundaberg Rum becoming foreign owned. But MDC an are Aussie success, I wish them all the best and hope they continue expanding, refining and improving.
You don't have to like them but competition raises the bar and thats good IMHO
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But MDC an are Aussie success
Are they ?? That's a bit like saying Aldi are an Aussie success because they employ Aussies ??
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But MDC an are Aussie success
Are they ?? That's a bit like saying Aldi are an Aussie success because they employ Aussies ??
Huh, thought MDC was an Aussie owned company?
KB
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I hope MDC become a powerhouse with a national dealer network employing heaps of aussies.
your post.. it crashed right there....
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100% australian owned vs German owned...I think there is a significant difference
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But MDC an are Aussie success
Are they ?? That's a bit like saying Aldi are an Aussie success because they employ Aussies ??
Aldi, like Optus they are a success. They are not Australian owned (neither is Kraft) but I'm happy to have someone challenge the duopoly. Many folks don't like Telstra, but I reckon like Bunnings they sharpened their game when a new competitor entered...
Anyway, what are the member numbers here ? Hardly think my n=1 will be represantative of everyones view ;D ;D ;D And owning another a brand have vested interest in seeing the opposition 'fail'.
I still say good on MDC, reckon they might acheive what other dream about, and they're Aussie
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It's too late to go back, the skills are gone. Outdated? Depends on your perspective I guess.
My barista point is being ironic. Most service jobs are transitional, medium term. For the kids that wanted to leave hs to work with their hands and go into a supporting trade, a lot of that opportunity is now gone. For those lesser skilled kids that fit into production type roles, those jobs are gone.
This service industry you speak of isn't for everyone.
Not everyone can go to uni, nor should they, yet we seem to hold it in high regard now as the deafault path. Result is kids with no idea what to do and a huge hecs debt.
Yep I disagree with you holding up two small time examples of "smart" manufacturers. There is no dumb manufacturing, it all requires engineering, trades, and skills. We had that, and it was left to rot after removal of tariffs
Smart was the term you had originally used so I continued but then I changed to more widely used high-tech and low-tech as I think this is more accurate of the point I were trying to make and doesn't have the derogatory undertones which I didn't intend.
I think there are still quite a few hands on roles available especially in the services sector for the kids you talk about, people used to do a lot of work around the house them self whereas now they get trades into do it for them, things like painting, tiling, decks, extensions, car services, replacing tap washers, mowing lawns, landscaping, adding extra power points, renovations in general, cleaning etc. have become a lot more likely to be outsourced than done DIY, this I at least partly attribute to the reduction in the price of good's allowing people to increase what they spend on services.
I agree with you with your point on people going to Uni, there seems to be plenty of pointless and over subscribed degrees.
There is still need for workers to do manual jobs, just not so much in low-tech manufacturing.
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I thought farmers also eligible for business fuel tax credits?
Not debating virtues of it, just saying every sector is subsidised one way or another
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Yes all primary producers are eligible for fuel tax credits but that is not a subsidy, what happens is that when we buy fuel we pay the same price as everyone else, but because the fuel is not used on road the government is not entitled to collect the road tax component, and this is remitted back to the purchaser as a fuel tax credit. I don't want to drag the thread any further of topic so I will leave it at that.