MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: jmsaintpierre on September 27, 2016, 09:42:56 PM
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Hi guys,
We have an Audi Q5 and m in the process of buying a camper trailer ( so far I have my eyes on a few lifestyle and track about ).
But, I'm getting confused with the fundamentals of towball weight and towbar.
The Audi Q5 manual/specification recommends a max towball weight of 100kg. The Hayman Reece tow hitch is rated at 2400kg towing-240ball weight. M not sure if the manual is a direct translation from German to English and the specs applies to European standards.
So is the ball weight relative to throw vehicle and it s suspension or more to do with the manufacturer of the tow hitch?
I even rang Audi support ( as good as useless), he was not sure and told me to ring my local dealer.
So I did, but h wasn't much better. After looking it up, he told me 2000kg/200. So now I have 3 different versions- 2000kg/100, 2400kg/240 and last 2000kg/200.
Absolutely confused.
Can anybody share some light on this topic.
If m limited to 100kg towball weight, my options are seriously compromised.
I guess some may say to get a on road trailer but my idea is to tow the camper trailer with the q5 when ever I can and if I want to go to Moreton, or remote, swap cars with my dad ( cruise 200 series Sahara ).
Hope to read from you soon
Regads
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Buy the camper you want, use your dads truck to go bush. The appeal of the Audi will fade and you will end up acing it for a real truck. It happens to the best of us ;-)
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Towing capacity and towball weight is determined by the vehicle manufacturer. The Q5 has a towing capacity of 2000kg. The specifications are silent on towball weight but I would assume 10% which is what most other manufacturers recommend. In Europe I would guess it is a lot less so the 100kg may be correct for Europe.
KB
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Unfortunately for what you want to do; the 100kgs that the vehicle manual is telling you; matters the most -- not the capacity of the tow hitch....
Sent from my SM-N910G using Tapatalk
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Max legal towing capacity (both overall max trailer weight and tow ball weight) are the lesser of the figures quoted by either the vehicle manufacturer or the manufacturer of your tow bar. If the manual says 100kg max tow ball weight, then unless you can get official figures from Audi that are higher than that I would say that is your legal limit. Obviously the tow bar, and you would assume the vehicle itself, it capable of towing more if HR are giving figures of 240kg, but that wouldn't make it legal in case of an accident if Audi only say 100kg.
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Punter: thanks for the advice.. Trust me, I would in a blink of an eye, but due to my wife's business we need a semi large luxury SUV. I, have company vehicle which we are no longer allowed to tow in our private time ( courtesy of a few idiots at work that have pushed the boubaries). As for the old man car, he s also an avid camper ( having a bush tracker caravan).
Kingbilly and Basecamp:Audi local spare part dealer did mentioned something about the 2000kg/200.
What I don t understand is the ability to tow 2000kg according to the manual, but only 100kg towball weight. How is that possible. What 2000kg only puts 100kg on the ball.
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https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjCsuOswa_PAhVGH5QKHe7PB74QFghcMAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.towbarsaustralia.com.au%2Ftowbar-kits%2Fq5-sq5-wagon&usg=AFQjCNH5zVXpajUKkKihivxIrHlL9duioA (https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=9&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjCsuOswa_PAhVGH5QKHe7PB74QFghcMAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.towbarsaustralia.com.au%2Ftowbar-kits%2Fq5-sq5-wagon&usg=AFQjCNH5zVXpajUKkKihivxIrHlL9duioA)
Ring this mob and ask if they supply any paperwork to back up their 240kg ball limit !!
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You need to check if the towball 'weight' listed in your Audi manual is the Euro specification. The current Euro max %, (of trailer mass) appears to be 4% of the recommended maximum allowable Euro towing weight.
Australian maximum towing weights (for identical model of vehicle) are often quite different to those specified for Europe.
My SsangYong is rated for 3200Kg in Europe with a 128Kg ball weight, however here it is specified as 2600Kg.
In New Zealand it is rated to 3000Kg. Something happens when it crosses the equator and additionally crossing 'the ditch' has a further detrimental impact on specs.
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Gronk - Paul:
Thanks for the reply.
I did see that mob at towbar Australia claiming 2400/240 and your idea of backing it up is a great idea.
I will also, email Audi Australia as to have a definite in writing response to cover all bases.
Regards
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you would want to go with a light weight camper,
I did a quick google on lifestyle and track about campers,
not much info on weights in either sites leaped out at me.
However they seem to be extreme ends of the camper range so I guess the field is open?
IMO its much more fun towing something small and light than a massive rig approaching or exceeding the tugs GVM.
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You could have a look at the Track Tvan Yalara/sport model.
Comes without a kitchen and a lighter towball weight than the rest of the Tvan range, due to no kitchen, front box, gas bottles or spare on the A frame.
It is a hard floor camper, Queen size bed, can be fitted with extra canvas, choose from list of extras.
You could go with a box trailer with a Roof Top Tent also. That's how a lot of Aussie Campers began. Tent may have been a bit different from a RTT.
It's your choice, there are options out there.
Have a good time working it out.
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If I remember correctly (happens rarely these days), Ultimate campers have a 75kg tow ball weight. If you have the cash then at least it is an alternative.
Good luck with your choice.
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If I remember correctly (happens rarely these days), Ultimate campers have a 75kg tow ball weight. If you have the cash then at least it is an alternative.
Good luck with your choice.
The xtrk has 35kg and the xplor gt is 45kg. I have never measure mine, as I know it's well within limits of my vehicle, but I would estimate mine to be about 90kg at the most when we are hooked ready to go away. I have lifted it by myself, and I'm only a small p!ss week little bloke. Lol
It was a one og the major reasons we went this way, apart from the fact we loved the trailer as a whole.
One has come up for sale on the owners Facebook page.
http://www.ultimateoffroadcampers.com.au/our-model-range/xtrk/ (http://www.ultimateoffroadcampers.com.au/our-model-range/xtrk/)
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Interesting thread here:
http://www.audiworld.com/forums/q5-sq5-discussion-129/anyone-towing-their-q5-2813315/page4/ (http://www.audiworld.com/forums/q5-sq5-discussion-129/anyone-towing-their-q5-2813315/page4/)
Someone mentions a 440lb (200kg) tounge weight limit there.
Id be re-confirming with Audi. There are variations throughout the model range.
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Hi guys,
Thanks heaps for all the replies and advice.
I LOVE the ultimate campers and if I could justify it, I would in a blink of an eye. Just love their shape, design, construction but since we probably only going to camp 5 to 6 times a year, I d say it probably over budget.
As for the Audi link, thanks again mate. As I read, it appears that in the us the tow ball weight is about 440 pounds which makes it similar to the advertised weight rating of some tow hitch here in oz.
May be, there are different ratings for Europe and us/Aus.. Anyway, I emailed Audi Australia, stating that some of their dealers mentioned a 200kg tow all weight but their manual states 100kg. I explained my concerns for warranty and insurance purposes, so let s see what happens.
Again, thank you to every body f contributing to the conversation.
Hopefully Audi will respond soon with some good news. If m allowed to tow 2000/200, it opens the doors to many campers..
Regards
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A lot of Utes are the same , I have a Narvara D22 duel cab can tow 2800kg but only a 150 tow ball weight
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Hi guys,
Thanks heaps for all the replies and advice.
I LOVE the ultimate campers and if I could justify it, I would in a blink of an eye. Just love their shape, design, construction but since we probably only going to camp 5 to 6 times a year, I d say it probably over budget.
As for the Audi link, thanks again mate. As I read, it appears that in the us the tow ball weight is about 440 pounds which makes it similar to the advertised weight rating of some tow hitch here in oz.
May be, there are different ratings for Europe and us/Aus.. Anyway, I emailed Audi Australia, stating that some of their dealers mentioned a 200kg tow all weight but their manual states 100kg. I explained my concerns for warranty and insurance purposes, so let s see what happens.
Again, thank you to every body f contributing to the conversation.
Hopefully Audi will respond soon with some good news. If m allowed to tow 2000/200, it opens the doors to many campers..
Regards
To be honest I don't like your chances. I looked at a VW Tiguan, which is the same car under the skin as the Audi Q5. In Australia the Tiguan has 2,200kg tow limit. But only 100kg towball down weight.
I'd reckon the manual stating 100kg will the answer.
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To be honest I don't like your chances. I looked at a VW Tiguan, which is the same car under the skin as the Audi Q5. In Australia the Tiguan has 2,200kg tow limit. But only 100kg towball down weight.
I'd reckon the manual stating 100kg will the answer.
Looks like we are back to new truck! ;-)
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A lot of Utes are the same , I have a Narvara D22 duel cab can tow 2800kg but only a 150 tow ball weight
My '93 Cruiser 'tilly 4.2 diesel is rated 3500 kg with 110 kg ball weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In '96 it changed to 250kg ball weight for the same vehicle but legally I'm stuck with 110kg :'(
Steve
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My '93 Cruiser 'tilly 4.2 diesel is rated 3500 kg with 110 kg ball weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In '96 it changed to 250kg ball weight for the same vehicle but legally I'm stuck with 110kg :'(
Steve
Was that about the same time they went coil front with 'comfort' rear leaf (read that as anything more than a bag of cement in the tray and your Tilly is dragging its arse like a dog with worms) springs?
Sorry OP, can't help with the Audi.
Shane.
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Was that about the same time they went coil front with 'comfort' rear leaf (read that as anything more than a bag of cement in the tray and your Tilly is dragging its arse like a dog with worms) springs?
Sorry OP, can't help with the Audi.
Shane.
Dunno Shane, all I know is that putting my full 1000litre fire tank on drops the tray about 45mm.
I'd like to stick it on the back of one of the new, so called one tonners, & see what happens. Maybe the rear leaf spring strength is the reason for the low tow ball weight? Something to do with dynamics of the rear of the vehicle.
Steve
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Best way, walk into an Audi dealer and ask the dealer to give you a accurate printout from their source and explain why they cannot take 10% of their towing capacity.
Also they may be looking at less a fully laden vehicle. ie 4 people equipement ETC
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My '93 Cruiser 'tilly 4.2 diesel is rated 3500 kg with 110 kg ball weight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In '96 it changed to 250kg ball weight for the same vehicle but legally I'm stuck with 110kg :'(
Steve
You may find it is only rated at 2500kg
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Punter: thanks for the advice.. Trust me, I would in a blink of an eye, but due to my wife's business we need a semi large luxury SUV. I, have company vehicle which we are no longer allowed to tow in our private time ( courtesy of a few idiots at work that have pushed the boubaries). As for the old man car, he s also an avid camper ( having a bush tracker caravan).
Kingbilly and Basecamp:Audi local spare part dealer did mentioned something about the 2000kg/200.
What I don t understand is the ability to tow 2000kg according to the manual, but only 100kg towball weight. How is that possible. What 2000kg only puts 100kg on the ball.
An Ultimate camper :D
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Best way, walk into an Audi dealer and ask the dealer to give you a accurate printout from their source and explain why they cannot take 10% of their towing capacity.
Also they may be looking at less a fully laden vehicle. ie 4 people equipement ETC
European towing limits work different to Australia and USA, and do not work with the 10% limit, which is only a guideline, not a rule as such. But pretty standard for us.
Their towball limits are very low compared to Aus & USA, as they look to balance trailers more than we do.
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Yeah, my Dad has towed caravans in Europe for 30 years or more. 100kg ball weight on a family sized caravan would be classed as normal there, and far less on smaller vans. 150kg would be classed as heavy, even on big vans. He was amazed when I told him about the 10% rule here and that we would realistically expect over 100kg ball weight on a camper trailer and the van we're getting could have a ball weight up to 300kg when loaded. That would just never happen in Europe.
As an aside, quite ironically the 150 series Prado he has (the series 1 with thd 3l diesel) is rated to tow more in Europe than it is here. Go figure!
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It's about weight v axle placement v # of axles. Where are the axles on most rear fold or forward fold campers? And where is all the storage?
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Hi guys,
well, still no answers from audi.. Not surprising.
As for new truck, i d love it, but at this stage, we need a luxury suv for my wife work. I have company car, so buying a 4x4 just to tow 6 times a year, is a bit unrealistic.
Buying a range rover, thank you but no thank you.... ;D
Options are really disappearing fast..
I guess, i can always get a chinese camper/tent as i believe they are lighter than the aust ones...hahaha
I see a lot of lifestyle campers for sale, some quite cheap some quite expensive.. Turns out though they are lifestyle trailers, they are a import tent...
Here i was getting all excited, at the price when i saw lifestyle campers . Thought that all lifestyle were 100% aust, then i thought i d double check...
:-[
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It's about weight v axle placement v # of axles. Where are the axles on most rear fold or forward fold campers? And where is all the storage?
Yes, where IS all the storage??
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On a ff and Rf most in front of the axle I would of thought?
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On a ff and Rf most in front of the axle I would of thought?
Yes, but I think you've missed my point ollie.... ;D
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I think you will find that it depends on the model of Lifestyle trailer - Going from memory now - but I think the Walkthrough model would likely be their imported tent - I can tell as it's a bit 'shiny' (and usually a lighter coloured blue) compared to the usual ozzy canvas. Still pretty good quality. The Extender & the 360 being their all local product?
What threw me off the walk through model was seeing it in the flesh. It's huge and heavy. Just the offroad wheels/tyres are mini truck like. We had a Subaru Fozzie at the time which would have been a real concern as she'd be struggling to pull it off the drive.
What you may find is that some of their earlier models with the smaller trailer (not walk through) like the Explorer Plus may have lower tow ball weights.
Or - Maybe seek out a Jimboomba camper - most of these had aluminium trailers which would be lighter (well the tub at least). Or aim for a Tourer model Customline. If concerned about tow ball weight then avoid the imports with huge fridge and storage boxes forward of the axle.
We also have the 9ft tent which saves on overall weight too. And easier to put up and down.
Good luck with finding out your limits...
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Hi Mctavish,
Thanks for the heads up.
Indeed the lifestyle seem huge. I have found a few and will go and check them out this week end. I also, have just now discovered jimboomba traikers, thanks. Love the aluminium look. Will definitely try and see if there s one around me.
Looking for a quality second hand trailer is a bit harder than I thought. A good Aus one is about $6000-$8000, but I can can a custom line entry level for a little above $10000. They have a special on where you either choose the electric set up or full annex wall and floor. Which really makes it hard.
Thanks anyway..
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So back to where you said you only camped 5 or 6 times a year.
How do you currently camp? I assume tents etc etc?
Why not buy a box trailer and load that to cart your gear for the 5 or 6 camps you do?
Then you have a box trailer you can use for the rest of the year?
Unless you want to start making those 5 trips touring trips then my suggestion is sell the Audi. Lol.
Food for thought!!
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You are stuck with 100 kg. It's the way things are going. Car manufacturers aren't going to spend a fortune to engineer their cars to cope with poor/lazy designed Australian behemoth caravans and imported campers. (If you tried to install a washing machine in the back of a caravan in Europe they would point, laugh and probably imprison you in a Brussels gaol).
Either change the car, or look at Ultimate or Outback Sturt/Newell depending on how far off road you want to go. The Newell is 55kg on the ball. Sturt would be a bit more but well under 100 kg. There may be a few others. Mountain Trail / Complete Campsite (proper well engineered Aussie trailers) are still around the 130 kg mark. Many of the rear fold imports are stupid heavy/chassis bending.
There are a few manufacturers/importers who are slowly twigging onto the fact that there are about 5 times as many SUV's out there as there are proper 4WD. You may notice some models being advertised as "SUV friendly" ie ball weight below 100 kg. I suspect this will continue until all vans and trailers are built to lower ball weight specs like they are in Europe. Who needs a heavy spec off-road trailer/van if your car can't go off-road? (obviously that doesn't apply to most on this forum)
You will also notice that Bailey bring their light weight, central mass Euro van over here and then make them heavier so that Aussies will buy them. I'll let Bailey tell you if that's done for marketing purposes or due to genuine engineering concern. I suspect the former, but I'm no expert. Just a cynic.
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Hi guys
Thanks for rall the advice, really appreciate it.
Finally hear from Audi .
Audi genuine towbar fitted with wiring harness $2600. Rated at 2000kg/200kg.
Absolutely fantastic, it opens more door to the buying of a camper.
Also rang around to compare prices, one was $895 fitted, and told me to simply disconnect the sensors when reversing with trailer.
Another towbar installer, supplying and wiring Hayman Reece , $2100.
So my thoughts are for the extra $500, may as well go with Audi genuine parts to cover all bases in case of worst case scenario.
There are talk at work that instead of leasing Car we may start buying them, which I would then negotiate if I could upgrade at my cost for a 4x4 instead of the current ranger 4x2 high ride we have.
Save me buying a whole 4x4 and have it sitting in the drive way for most of the year.
So happy with the reply from Audi.
Now I can really focus on getting a camper and my second dilemma - being new vs second hand.
Like I mentioned in one previous post, for a couple of thousands more than second hand one, I may as well get a new.
Just talked to jimboomba trailer and there entry level, is $10000. It s suits my need, don t want anything fancy. I already have a fridge, 2 x 80ah batteries, solar panel, generator, toilet +tent.
My other option is getting a PBL off road trailer for $2800, kitchen for $700, and a walkabout or custom line tent and annex roof for $4500 and m set.
So hard to make a decision..
Thanks for all your help guys anyway. Very much appreciated.
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That's great news and a bit of a (nice) surprise.
Definitely go with the genuine Audi tow loom - you can get the Hayman Reece bar if you want the square tongue reciever for a bike rack etc but stay away from their electrics solution. All the HR module does is stop the car going ape when you hit the brakes which confuses the ECU into thinking a bulb has blown. It may also cause your boot to randomly open as it did in our Passat.
The VAG setup will change a whole load of parameters in engine mapping and cooling, gearbox mapping, ABS, stability control as well as the doot-doots when reversing.
Two further pieces of advice: stay away from the guy who said to disconnect the reversing sensors. He has no idea what he is talking about. He just wants your money. Secondly, have a squiz in the manual at the towing section. Specifically as to whether the tow loom calibrates the ECU to work with over-ride brakes. It probably will say that - other VAG cars definitely do. It doesn't mean you can't use electric but it begs the question. If you aren't doing serious off-road I'd stick with what the manual says - over-ride brakes.
Good luck.
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Hi guys
Thanks for rall the advice, really appreciate it.
Finally hear from Audi .
Audi genuine towbar fitted with wiring harness $2600. Rated at 2000kg/200kg.
Absolutely fantastic, it opens more door to the buying of a camper.
Great news :cup: See reply #2 ;D
Have fun looking for a camper
KB
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Wow. Didn't expect that. That's great news.......but $2600 for a tow bar :o. And I thought Jeep used to take the p1ss with their official accessory prices on my old JK. Clearly Jeep weren't trying hard enough. Audi really know how to extort their customers.
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Was going to suggest upgrading to a Q7, as I saw one today towing a 20ft Jayco Basestation !!
If you go the official track, make sure you get paperwork .